.. by 7 1/2 pts. Take the cougs and the points. There is a good chance for an upset. It will be a close game.
Utah favored ..
- Thread starter ElComanche
- Start date
In the last game ,Utah was extremely hot from the 3 pt line and that is why they pulled away from the cougs.Their big man was shooting from beyond the 3 pt line. Perhaps the zone with Arinze on top may help The cougs will definitely have to rotate better and play better defense. Hopefully ,Cooper will also play well in this game.
Need Flynn to play at the same level. Really can't expect him go for 30+ again but we also can't afford him to revert too far backwards. Franks has to play better through his injury. Need to get something from Skaggs and Daniels. Bernstine to stop missing so many cripples.
Continue to keep the turnovers down, play better defense more consistently and we have a shot.
Continue to keep the turnovers down, play better defense more consistently and we have a shot.
I think most if us would be pleasantly surprised as well. Gotta' hope for the best though.
Well if you took the cougs and the points,you would have won some money. The cougs let them get too far ahead and could not come all the way back. they played hard b,had their chances but did not do it.
Kent needs to realize that Skaggs is not a D1 player. He can be used in situations and spurts but needs to sit down If he cannot hit 2-3 ,3 s in a row,he hurts the team with his subpar athletic ability and terrible defense. franks would do himself a favor by learning to put the ball on the floor and drive the basket. if he can learn to do that,he would become a scorer and earn money playing for a living. It is the big missing piece in his offensive game.It would certainly help the team when they go long periods of time without scoring .
Last edited:
watching games on tv I'm always baffled by the number of empty seats - saturday night for crying out loud!
Well ,the team early in the season had a chance to capture the students. They bombed big time losing to a couple of teams they should n t have lost to. I would go ,if i lived closer ,but the team has not jelled after being an early season surprise.They have better talent than their record indicates. There have been about 5 games which they should have won.So until they start winning they cannot expect sell out crowds.
Boozing and scoring chicks way more appealing than bad basketball.
Franks doesn't drive to the hoop more because he doesn't have the explosive quickness to go with his good ball handling.
I was higher on him than most of you going into this year and I still like his game. However, I would be surprised if he gets much of a look at the next level.
I was higher on him than most of you going into this year and I still like his game. However, I would be surprised if he gets much of a look at the next level.
He needs to practice going to the hoop. He does not have explosive quickness but he can learn to go to the hoop a few times a game. it is a mindset and would make him a more complete player. He will make money in Europe if he continue to improve. I agree that he is not NBA material unless he makes a quantum leap.
Larry K-smart coach/Ernie on the job retired. Cougs need a fire in the belly man who plays Bennett ball
Funny thing about systems. They all work with better athletes and none work without good athletes.
It would be interesting if someone showed the roster Tony inherited his first year to the roster he left Bone. Bone got slammed for not getting to the post season his first year. Tony had Baynes and Rochestie, but lost Cowgill Weaver and Low from his sweet 16. He went 8-10, and one and done in the NIT. Bone inherited nobody beyond Klay as good as the the guys who started on Tony's last team. Bone was unable to significantly improve the recruiting over Tony's last couple of classes. That explains a lot more about the demise in Cougar hoops than does the system each ran
It would be interesting if someone showed the roster Tony inherited his first year to the roster he left Bone. Bone got slammed for not getting to the post season his first year. Tony had Baynes and Rochestie, but lost Cowgill Weaver and Low from his sweet 16. He went 8-10, and one and done in the NIT. Bone inherited nobody beyond Klay as good as the the guys who started on Tony's last team. Bone was unable to significantly improve the recruiting over Tony's last couple of classes. That explains a lot more about the demise in Cougar hoops than does the system each ran
I think style has an impact. Just said in another thread how you started to hear calls of "rat ball" somewhat quickly when Bone took over. I am not saying I agreed but it wasn't a compliment.
There is always a lot of disagreement on the talent question. Tony left Thompson, Casto, Motum, and Thames. Capers and Lodwick were solid role players. I am not saying anyone beyond Klay was great (especially year 1) or the roster was full of talent but I think it's unfair to say he was left nothing beyond Klay. Also unfair to expect a Tournament run year 1 but missing it year 2 really hurt any chance to keep momentum going in the right direction.
One of the biggest things that hurt the roster and is somewhat forgotten was Koprivica never returning to form from his knee injury. Also for Tony and Bone that Fabian Boeke provided nada due to his injury and left after a year.
100% on target. For the team Bone inherited, nobody matched the star power of Klay, but people forget that Casto was a member of the conference all-freshman first team and played on the U-19 World Cup Team with Thompson. Not a bad combo to build around. Expectations may have been unrealistic for Bone that first year, but certainly not the second year. And once the Tony recruits were gone and Bone had his own roster, the program had really hit the skids.
I don't necessarily need to see a return to Bennett Ball, but I would like to see more attention and dedication to defense, ball handling, and overall fundamentals. Those things are sorely lacking with Kent, IMO. And WSU isn't talented enough to get by without those elements.
Glad Cougar
Biggest problem Bone faced initially was the "John Wooden effect" of Tony. Nobody, including Tony was going to have anything close to the success of those two 26 win seasons in Pullman. Difficulty recruiting eventually caught up with Bone, and ironically he did himself in by going to a slow down style the last two years.
Here is the roster Bone inherited as best I can remember:
Klay, Casto, Capers, Koprivicia, Lodwick. Watson, Harthun, Brown, Motum, Thames, Witherill, kid from the south who never showed. Motum wasn't ready to contribute, and Thames wasn't close to being a starter.
Not terrible 1 through 5 , but not as good as Baynes, Rochestie, Klay, Forrest, Capers. Big drop off after 7.
Here is the roster Bone inherited as best I can remember:
Klay, Casto, Capers, Koprivicia, Lodwick. Watson, Harthun, Brown, Motum, Thames, Witherill, kid from the south who never showed. Motum wasn't ready to contribute, and Thames wasn't close to being a starter.
Not terrible 1 through 5 , but not as good as Baynes, Rochestie, Klay, Forrest, Capers. Big drop off after 7.
Ask and ye shall receive - and I don't think Klay was the only talent that Bone inherited - read on.
http://wsucougars.com/sports/2014/1/6/209361128.aspx (all years media guides on this link)
Thompson
Casto
Motum
Koprivica (only Senior on the squad)
Capers
Lodwick
Moore (Reggie)
Thames (Xavier)
Full list below.....
20 John Allen G 6-0 188 FR* SQ Brier, Wash. (Mountlake Terrace HS) 13 Steven Bjornstad C 6-10 217 FR HS Vancouver, Wash. (Columbia River HS) 44 Austin Bragg F 6-8 182 FR HS Longview, Wash. (Mark Morris HS) 2 Anthony Brown G 6-4 206 FR HS Spokane, Wash. (Shadle Park HS) 0 Marcus Capers G 6-4 180 SO 1V Winter Haven, Fla. (Montverde Academy) 23 DeAngelo Casto F 6-8 241 SO 1V Spokane, Wash. (Ferris HS) 40 Charlie Enquist F 6-10 222 SO* 1V Edmonds, Wash. (Kings HS) 30 Michael Harthun G 6-3 181 SO 1V Medford, Ore. (South Medford HS) 4 Nikola Koprivica G 6-6 221 SR 3V Belgrade, Serbia (Sport Grammer School) 31 Abe Lodwick G 6-7 200 SO* 1V Bend, Ore. (Mountain View HS) 22 Ben Loewen G 6-0 172 SO* SQ Spokane, Wash. (Whitworth University) 3 Reggie Moore G 6-1 178 FR HS Seattle, Wash. (Brewster Academy-N.H.) 12 Brock Motum F 6-9 205 FR HS Brisbane, Australia (Australia Institute of Sport) 11 Xavier Thames G 6-3 186 FR HS Sacramento, Calif. (Pleasant Grove HS) 1 Klay Thompson G 6-6 200 SO 1V Ladera Ranch, Calif. (Santa Margarita Catholic HS) 14 James Watson F 6-7 213 FR* SQ Atoka, Okla. (Stringtown HS)
Klay wasnt the only talent Bone inherited, but the best of the bunch after Klay were either not as good as the guys they replaced ( Casto vs Baynes, Capers vs Weaver, Thames vs Rochestie ) or not ready to contribute at a high level Motum, Thames again. Also, just to be nit picky Moore was recruited by Bone not Tony, and was arguably the second best player behind Klay. Like him or not think about where that team would have been with only one pg who was a true freshman.
Moore's another fun subject. Moore was definitely talented and a good scorer. Beyond that (including the defensive end) is where there were issues. Moore was a good addition that probably was allowed far too much reign.
Bone needed to find a way to keep the talent he had on hand in year 1 on the roster and add to it. Just think if we had Thames when Moore was injured or suspended or even for the UCLA game? Might have made the difference.
I think we would have been better off keeping Thames than recruiting Reggie Moore. But yes I agree - Tony had a better group of guys than Bone inherited. But they weren't horrible. Certainly not a total rebuild.
Thames - per Wikipedia:
In his freshman season at Washington State, Thames had four double-figure scoring games, the first of which came on December 2, 2009 against Gonzaga when he scored 11 points. Prior to the Gonzaga game, he helped the Cougars to the 2009 Great Alaska Shootout title. In 31 games (four starts), he averaged 4.6 points 1.5 rebounds and 1.2 assists in 17.6 minutes per game.
In May 2010, Thames transferred to San Diego State and subsequently sat out the 2010–11 season due to NCAA transfer rules.[4] In his sophomore season, he earned honorable mention All-Mountain West accolades. In 31 games (30 games), he averaged 10.1 points, 3.2 rebounds, 4.1 assists and 1.0 steals in 33.8 minutes per game.[1][3]
In his junior season, he scored in double-figures 15 times and led the team in scoring three times and in assists seven times. He also ended the season having played 32 or more minutes in a season-best six straight games, which was a season first. In 30 games (25 starts), he averaged 9.5 points, 2.7 rebounds, 2.4 assists and 1.0 steals in 28.7 minutes per game.[1][3]
In his senior season, he was named the 2014 Mountain West Player of the Year. He was also named to the All-MWC first team and the MWC All-Defensive team. In 36 games, he averaged 17.6 points, 2.9 rebounds, 3.2 assists and 1.6 steals in 31.3 minutes per game.[3]
On June 26, 2014, Thames was selected with the 59th overall pick in the 2014 NBA draft by the Toronto Raptors. H
I heard Moore was Thames best friend on the team. I think they would have complimented each other well in the backcourt if they were brought along together. Thames, Moore, Thompson wasn't a bad base of talent to start with in the backcourt.
I was definitely bummed and posted "here and there" how disappointed I was to lose Thames.
Hated losing Thames too as did Bone. Also as was said, that team wasn't totally devoid of talent. NIT final 4 speaks to that. The thing is, to a lot of people Bone didn't win the right way, and with Klay they expected us to to even better, ignoring the drop off after Klay. NIT was arguably one of the 5 best seasons in WSU history
Here is the thing. It was a rebuild because no juniors and one senior returned. Klay was a major contributor, but rest if the guys were not ready to compete at PAC 10 level. Tony's sweet 16 team had Cowgill, Weaver, Low, Rochestie, Baynes. All upper class men. The NIT team of Bone had Klay, Capers, Reggie, Casto, Lodwick. Would Tony gotten that team to the Dance?. Maybe, but it wasn't as good as his Sweet 16 team in terms of defensive athletes, or scorers
I think it's just the lens we see things through. I can't give Bone a pass for much of it beyond of course the injuries. With Kent even less. Both were their own worst enemies.
You can't get away from players leaving. You just want to get as much out of them as you can and Bone had his share of issues.
Dick Bennett was able to connect and wasn't exactly Raveling incarnate. Sampson was pretty dry and beyond the looks and no tie thing Tony was and is a Midwest guy and not exactly flashy. In fact I personally missed Dick's weekly show in comparison. All those coaches were pretty "low key". Bone made me cringe at times. Things that were fixable but still cringe worthy.
On the "guy could coach" part we depart. I agree Bone could definitely game plan but that's just one part of being a good head coach and probably down the list of key attributes as well. Good game planning was what he brought to the table for Romar but you need more than that to be a head coach in the Pac 12.
Not to quibble, but I'll repeat that Casto was a pretty good sophomore who made the All-conference freshman first team. Not sure why you would consider him not ready to compete at the Pac-12 level. As a sophomore, he was honorable mention all-conference, named to the conference 5-man all defensive team and led the conference in blocked shots, averaged double figures in points, and was 7th in the conference in rebounding.
Glad Cougar
Since Casto never made it to his senior year I won't argue, but Casto was much better than anyone we have seen since to a large degree that put on the uniform and clearly better at defense than anyone who has played for Ernie Kent at WSU and that was my point.
It wasn't that first year that had people concerned about not getting to the Tournament. It was year 2 plus all the stuff happening off the court. At least that's my memory. Poster aren't necessarily a representative sample but I thought most were positive about Bone after the first year.
You are right about the second year, but a significant number of posters on these boards were Bone haters before his first conference game. He wasn't t playing Bennett ball, and clearly that was the only way to be successful, not withstanding the fact that the Bennett's were only able to get above 500 in conference 2 out of 6 years because they didn't have enough PAC 12 caliber athletes in the other years.
Well, that wasn't what you originally wrote. You said "Klay was a major contributor, but rest of the guys were not ready to compete at PAC 10 level." That statement doesn't correlate with how Casto compared to Baynes as a senior. Casto clearly was ready to compete at the Pac-(12) level and his stats and post season accolades attest to that. IMO, Klay and DeAngelo were two solid players that Bone inherited. The cupboard was nowhere as bare as you make it out to be.
Glad Cougar
I'm concerned that trying to play uptempo with little regard for defense, ball handling, and overall fundamentals without enough Pac-12 caliber athletes will not allow this program to compete very well. That's why some folks believe that the Bennett style of ball gives teams a better chance when they don't have as much talent as the better Pac-12 teams. That doesn't mean you can win without talent....I agree with you there....but there is more margin for error, IMO, when you can play defense and not turn the ball over. Interesting debate.
Glad Cougar
You are right. I didn't mean to imply that Casto wasn't able to contribute at the PAC 10 level. I have was trying to show that he wasn't ready to contribute at the level of Baynes as a senior. My point being that the inexperience of the team Tony left was a major factor in the further drop off in Bones first year. Of course the screw job in the Oregon game didn't help either. I always felt that game cut the heart out if a young team for awhile.
That's what this discussion ends up becoming depending on your position. I wouldn't imply Bone was left with a Tournament ready team but to say Thompson and everyone else also misrepresents reality. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
