Why sign HS players?

[BiggsCoug]

Is it 20 kids in the portal this month?

Is it time to sign only kids with 1 year of eligibility left? Sign them after spring ball so you’re as sure as you can be that you’ve got them. Bring in 100 new dudes for fall camp and get them ready for the season.

At this point you’re losing so many kids and wasting so many reps what’s the point? You cannot start all over every spring and fall. Just get all seniors. Season over? Tell the staff you’ll see them in May when recruiting starts.

 

[95coug]

Is it 20 kids in the portal this month?

Is it time to sign only kids with 1 year of eligibility left? Sign them after spring ball so you’re as sure as you can be that you’ve got them. Bring in 100 new dudes for fall camp and get them ready for the season.

At this point you’re losing so many kids and wasting so many reps what’s the point? You cannot start all over every spring and fall. Just get all seniors. Season over? Tell the staff you’ll see them in May when recruiting starts.

Signing all seniors is just a different version starting over every year.

I see 19 in the portal in April, but with all the movement we’ve had I can’t remember if any of them were guys who would actually see playing time.

I don’t know what the answer is anymore. What I know is that this isn’t college football anymore. It’s semi-pro football that’s played at college sites. It’s destroyed the game in general and at WSU in particular. The lack of roster continuity and the completely mercenary state of it - along with the system being intentionally set up to favor only a few teams - makes it uninteresting.

Truth is that if anything else came along to fill the void on saturdays, I’m not sure I’d even watch WSU football anymore. It’s definitely lost the allure it once had.

 

[wazzucougs96]

yeah but the difference is they are 22 or 23, not 18 or 19.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Signing all seniors is just a different version starting over every year.

I see 19 in the portal in April, but with all the movement we’ve had I can’t remember if any of them were guys who would actually see playing time.

I don’t know what the answer is anymore. What I know is that this isn’t college football anymore. It’s semi-pro football that’s played at college sites. It’s destroyed the game in general and at WSU in particular. The lack of roster continuity and the completely mercenary state of it - along with the system being intentionally set up to favor only a few teams - makes it uninteresting.

Truth is that if anything else came along to fill the void on saturdays, I’m not sure I’d even watch WSU football anymore. It’s definitely lost the allure it once had.

At this point now they’re starting over in the fall and again in the spring. Start over once and be done.

Cut the roster limit to 70. Place an enormous value on just HAVING a roster spot. I would wager we will see the portal empty as kids are not going to trade what they have for what is behind door #2.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

At this point now they’re starting over in the fall and again in the spring. Start over once and be done.

Cut the roster limit to 70. Place an enormous value on just HAVING a roster spot. I would wager we will see the portal empty as kids are not going to trade what they have for what is behind door #2.

The NCAA needs to work with conferences to create a framework that makes sense. Any kid that accepts NIL money should be under contract. If a school wants to snipe a kid, they have to pay the original school a significant sum to void that contract. Something like 25% of the kid's NIL earnings go back to his original school. Also, kids should get 1 free transfer and then sit out a full year for any subsequent transfers. This bullshit of 4 schools in 4 years needs to stop. Agree on roster limits.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The NCAA needs to work with conferences to create a framework that makes sense. Any kid that accepts NIL money should be under contract. If a school wants to snipe a kid, they have to pay the original school a significant sum to void that contract. Something like 25% of the kid's NIL earnings go back to his original school. Also, kids should get 1 free transfer and then sit out a full year for any subsequent transfers. This bullshit of 4 schools in 4 years needs to stop. Agree on roster limits.

The roster limit cuts the transfers way down. Adding academic degree progress cuts transfers down too.

Imo, NIL is exactly that. A sponsorship deal. No school should have a collective. The kids should be hiring agents to drum up their NIL deals. Now if schools are gonna pay kids direct…. gotta be contracts. Break the contract and you are gonna pay. If it is gonna be pro football then make it pro football. You dont get to break contracts or tamper with other teams players.

 

[PeteTheChop]

They've had multiple stories on Brand X about how the NIL collective has been raising more money to keep the roster intact as well as sign unrestricted free agents.

Looks like the administration and top boosters are full speed ahead for this new era of college sports

 

[PeteTheChop]

If a school wants to snipe a kid, they have to pay the original school a significant sum to void that contract. Something like 25% of the kid's NIL earnings go back to his original school. Also, kids should get 1 free transfer and then sit out a full year for any subsequent transfers.

Coaches have buyouts, maybe players could have them as well?

 

[UberCougars]

The roster limit cuts the transfers way down. Adding academic degree progress cuts transfers down too.

Imo, NIL is exactly that. A sponsorship deal. No school should have a collective. The kids should be hiring agents to drum up their NIL deals. Now if schools are gonna pay kids direct…. gotta be contracts. Break the contract and you are gonna pay. If it is gonna be pro football then make it pro football. You dont get to break contracts or tamper with other teams players.

I’m in favor of Employee contracts for players.

Let the players union and schools negotiate percentage of total revenue between players and the schools and tax the players just like every other job.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Coaches have buyouts, maybe players could have them as well?

How many buy outs of player contracts do you see in the NFL?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Coaches have buyouts, maybe players could have them as well?

25% of their future NIL......

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I actually like Biggs idea re: 70 scholarship limits. That seems to me to be a viable approach to the problem, particularly if the NCAA has no stomach for multi-year contract obligations or some of the other options. Ideally it is all the above...

But in the absence of that, we simply cannot afford to not take some HS kids. The number is up for debate, and we will certainly be buying players on the open market like everybody else, but we should be able to get 1-2 useful years out of HS kids after a year of development. And having that supply in the bag and really only known to our coaches will provide a bit more flexibility when we have to go shopping for players.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I actually like Biggs idea re: 70 scholarship limits. That seems to me to be a viable approach to the problem, particularly if the NCAA has no stomach for multi-year contract obligations or some of the other options. Ideally it is all the above...

But in the absence of that, we simply cannot afford to not take some HS kids. The number is up for debate, and we will certainly be buying players on the open market like everybody else, but we should be able to get 1-2 useful years out of HS kids after a year of development. And having that supply in the bag and really only known to our coaches will provide a bit more flexibility when we have to go shopping for players.

I dunno that the staff can point to HS kids actually developing and getting them on the field. If they dont play in 2 yrs, they leave. If they do play for 1-2 yrs, they leave. How good were they really as a frosh or soph? Shit, there are kids leaving after 1 semester!

If the NCAA cant do anything to stop kids being paid, the for damn sure can limit the roster spots and increase graduation progress to slow the portal down.

 

[kougkurt]

I dunno that the staff can point to HS kids actually developing and getting them on the field. If they dont play in 2 yrs, they leave. If they do play for 1-2 yrs, they leave. How good were they really as a frosh or soph? Shit, there are kids leaving after 1 semester!

If the NCAA cant do anything to stop kids being paid, the for damn sure can limit the roster spots and increase graduation progress to slow the portal down.

You just can’t take a chance on an unproven commodity like a high school kid, regardless of competition. If you’re gonna demand big bucks, there better be some high-level tape you can produce.

 

[BiggsCoug]

You just can’t take a chance on an unproven commodity like a high school kid, regardless of competition. If you’re gonna demand big bucks, there better be some high-level tape you can produce.

I think there are some kids learning the hard way that HS film doesnt = big NIL $ if you’ve been in college for 2-3 yrs and have no game film.

 

[Coug90]

I think there are some kids learning the hard way that HS film doesnt = big NIL $ if you’ve been in college for 2-3 yrs and have no game film.

I say at this point F it. Go spend your recruiting budget in Australia and New Zealand and find a bunch of 27 year old rugby pros who want a US education. Let’s see how these premadonna NIL hoppers like it playing against men who wrestle crocs for fun.

 

[95coug]

I dunno that the staff can point to HS kids actually developing and getting them on the field. If they dont play in 2 yrs, they leave. If they do play for 1-2 yrs, they leave. How good were they really as a frosh or soph? Shit, there are kids leaving after 1 semester!

If the NCAA cant do anything to stop kids being paid, the for damn sure can limit the roster spots and increase graduation progress to slow the portal down.

This is just off the top of my head, but here’s a thought for an approach:

Roster limit 70
Linemen (both sides) recruited exclusively from the portal. No HS kids.
QB, RB, and LB mostly from the portal, unless we can pull an under the radar HS kid.
WR/DB 50/50.
K/P wherever
ST kids mostly HS. If they don’t progress into the 2-deep by the time they’re juniors, encourage them to leave

 

[BiggsCoug]

This is just off the top of my head, but here’s a thought for an approach:

Roster limit 70
Linemen (both sides) recruited exclusively from the portal. No HS kids.
QB, RB, and LB mostly from the portal, unless we can pull an under the radar HS kid.
WR/DB 50/50.
K/P wherever
ST kids mostly HS. If they don’t progress into the 2-deep by the time they’re juniors, encourage them to leave

All portal. The HS kids wont stay. Sign 70 seniors every May. Let it ride with 1 yr teams.

 

[95coug]

All portal. The HS kids wont stay. Sign 70 seniors every May. Let it ride with 1 yr teams.

We’ll see how successfully we can recruit the portal. We’re nobody’s first choice anymore, and for portal kids, I think we’re going to be pretty close to last resort, especially for anyone who still thinks they’ve have pro potential

 

[425cougfan]

Things are finally ****ed enough where Biggs' absolutist takes ("just play teams on the west coast," "cut out all the media companies and just stream your games," "don't sign any HS players," etc. start to become sensible. I don't mean that as a knock, either. We all knew that shit was hyperbolic before. Now it actually could be prescriptive. Why not? We're in crazy world now and trying to do what everyone else is doing, just with vastly fewer resources and less to offer than all P4 teams and even a decent chunk of G of 5 teams now, as opposed to just marginally less to offer than 95% of then-P5 teams, isn't going to work in this environment. Almost anything should be on the table now.

 

[Sea-Coug]

I say at this point F it. Go spend your recruiting budget in Australia and New Zealand and find a bunch of 27 year old rugby pros who want a US education. Let’s see how these premadonna NIL hoppers like it playing against men who wrestle crocs for fun.

They’d be deported or have their visas revoked….

 

[Coug90]

They’d be deported or have their visas revoked….

Haha. True, didn’t think of that one 🤷

 

[BiggsCoug]

We’ll see how successfully we can recruit the portal. We’re nobody’s first choice anymore, and for portal kids, I think we’re going to be pretty close to last resort, especially for anyone who still thinks they’ve have pro potential

WSU should be selling playing time. Playing time and coaching. It is a place you go to get on the field and show what you can do asap. Get film for the NFL scouts, a degree and move on.

WSU struggled to keep kids 4 years when there wasn’t NIL and a portal. Now it’s all over. 1 - 2 years and gone.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Things are finally ****ed enough where Biggs' absolutist takes ("just play teams on the west coast," "cut out all the media companies and just stream your games," "don't sign any HS players," etc. start to become sensible. I don't mean that as a knock, either. We all knew that shit was hyperbolic before. Now it actually could be prescriptive. Why not? We're in crazy world now and trying to do what everyone else is doing, just with vastly fewer resources and less to offer than all P4 teams and even a decent chunk of G of 5 teams now, as opposed to just marginally less to offer than 95% of then-P5 teams, isn't going to work in this environment. Almost anything should be on the table now.

I was serious.

Let me triple down…. The Pac 12 should be offering membership to every tier 1 research school in the Western US, North Dakota State, Air Force and UTEP.

Get whatever tv deal you can. There are no metro markets left that are bringing $$$$. Sell streaming subs. Have competitive games. Put on a great tv show.

And here’s one for you….. Make the Pac 12 have 70 man roster limits. You wanna play football in the Western US? Better hold onto your spot.

The Power 4 arent coming to rescue WSU, OSU or anyone else. In fact, I’d wager they’re gonna make more cuts.

 

[425cougfan]

I was serious.

Let me triple down…. The Pac 12 should be offering membership to every tier 1 research school in the Western US, North Dakota State, Air Force and UTEP.

Get whatever tv deal you can. There are no metro markets left that are bringing $$$$. Sell streaming subs. Have competitive games. Put on a great tv show.

And here’s one for you….. Make the Pac 12 have 70 man roster limits. You wanna play football in the Western US? Better hold onto your spot.

The Power 4 arent coming to rescue WSU, OSU or anyone else. In fact, I’d wager they’re gonna make more cuts.

There could be arguments over some of this stuff (e.g., why try to compete against the MWC with 70 man rosters out west, etc.), but I'd be for lower scholie limits applied to all conferences.

As I wrote, anything should be on the table at this point, including things like you propose here and other ideas. Can't argue with your last line at all.

To go back to it, the "no HS kids" thing, especially, makes complete sense. It would have opposition owing mainly to emotion and people pining for the past, but it's as simple as you wrote. They leave if they play. They leave if they don't. WSU is never signing HS kids who should be playing in college on day one now, and it very rarely did even in the best of times. So why sign them, feed them, house them, and train them at all? To try to claim some credit when a kid makes the NFL after playing at three other schools after signing with WSU originally? Makes no sense unless this NIL/portal system gets fixed, and I don't see it ever getting fixed in a way that prevents something much like the current environment, even if they implement some marginally impactful things like poaching fees. That won't stop anyone or result in a net benefit to the WSUs of the world.

 

[95coug]

I was serious.

Let me triple down…. The Pac 12 should be offering membership to every tier 1 research school in the Western US, North Dakota State, Air Force and UTEP.

Get whatever tv deal you can. There are no metro markets left that are bringing $$$$. Sell streaming subs. Have competitive games. Put on a great tv show.

And here’s one for you….. Make the Pac 12 have 70 man roster limits. You wanna play football in the Western US? Better hold onto your spot.

The Power 4 arent coming to rescue WSU, OSU or anyone else. In fact, I’d wager they’re gonna make more cuts.

I’m on board, with one revision: membership to every tier 1 institution except UW and UO. If the Big 10 cuts them loose (which I expect them to do with UW), leave them wandering in the woods with no deal at all.

 

[BiggsCoug]

There could be arguments over some of this stuff (e.g., why try to compete against the MWC with 70 man rosters out west, etc.), but I'd be for lower scholie limits applied to all conferences.

As I wrote, anything should be on the table at this point, including things like you propose here and other ideas. Can't argue with your last line at all.

To go back to it, the "no HS kids" thing, especially, makes complete sense. It would have opposition owing mainly to emotion and people pining for the past, but it's as simple as you wrote. They leave if they play. They leave if they don't. WSU is never signing HS kids who should be playing in college on day one now, and it very rarely did even in the best of times. So why sign them, feed them, house them, and train them at all? To try to claim some credit when a kid makes the NFL after playing at three other schools after signing with WSU originally? Makes no sense unless this NIL/portal system gets fixed, and I don't see it ever getting fixed in a way that prevents something much like the current environment, even if they implement some marginally impactful things like poaching fees. That won't stop anyone or result in a net benefit to the WSUs of the world.

The only way to stop it is cut the rosters. The talent will spread. The transfers will slow. Add an element of degree completion requirement as kids finish each season.

WSU has kids leaving after 1 semester in their first year of college. This is about building the best roster you can for 1 year. Coaching them up as fast as possible. Starting damn near all over the next year. Nothing is guaranteed. No one is staying longer than they have to.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I’m on board, with one revision: membership to every tier 1 institution except UW and UO. If the Big 10 cuts them loose (which I expect them to do with UW), leave them wandering in the woods with no deal at all.

Seriously. A state university fcked another in state university out of $100,000,000 in tv money. At least that much. Let that sink in. No bad blood? No fcking way. No one at WSU should be taking calls from that school. Athletics, academics, admin…. no one.

If those schools were above board and made it known they were looking, fine. They did it behind closed doors. Behind everyone’s backs.

I would never let them in the conference. Any games played against them by a conference school costs them $5,000,000.

 

[95coug]

Seriously. A state university fcked another in state university out of $100,000,000 in tv money. At least that much. Let that sink in. No bad blood? No fcking way. No one at WSU should be taking calls from that school. Athletics, academics, admin…. no one.

If those schools were above board and made it known they were looking, fine. They did it behind closed doors. Behind everyone’s backs.

I would never let them in the conference. Any games played against them by a conference school costs them $5,000,000.

Prepaid in full.

 

[dgibbons]

I’m on board, with one revision: membership to every tier 1 institution except UW and UO. If the Big 10 cuts them loose (which I expect them to do with UW), leave them wandering in the woods with no deal at all.

Depends on how much uw is willing to devalue itself. Half share right now. Why would the other BIG members not demand uw go down to 25 percent for the next TV deal?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Depends on how much uw is willing to devalue itself. Half share right now. Why would the other BIG members not demand uw go down to 25 percent for the next TV deal?

Which would still be way more than our media contract........

 

[BiggsCoug]

Which would still be way more than our media contract........

Fck the tv deal. It isnt going to be shit. Go streaming. Sell subs. Keep what you kill.

Sell fcking tee shirts and hats during the stream like an infomercial…. have a button to donate to players if they score a touchdown or sack the qb…. But for fcks sake take back control of your team and conference.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Fck the tv deal. It isnt going to be shit. Go streaming. Sell subs. Keep what you kill.

Sell fcking tee shirts and hats during the stream like an infomercial….

Could sell branded beer, cheese, ice cream. Heck, license plates and window stickers, too.

Sports fans would much rather watch those commercials than hearing that squealing pig from Gekko

... have a button to donate to players if they score a touchdown or sack the qb

This could evolve to where a player had a scripted move after a TD, sack, first down, fumble recovery, nice block to where he posed for the TV cameras and mimed texting on the phone to remind fans at home to donate.

It'd be like a game within the game

 

[PeteTheChop]

Things are finally ****ed enough where Biggs' absolutist takes ("just play teams on the west coast," "cut out all the media companies and just stream your games," "don't sign any HS players," etc. start to become sensible.

Well done by Biggs

 

[95coug]

Could sell branded beer, cheese, ice cream. Heck, license plates and window stickers, too.

Sports fans would much rather watch those commercials than hearing that squealing pig from Gekko




This could evolve to where a player had a scripted move after a TD, sack, first down, fumble recovery, nice block to where he posed for the TV cameras and mimed texting on the phone to remind fans at home to donate.

It'd be like a game within the game

This...sounds fun to watch.

WSU network...your exclusive network for Crimson Lager, Cougar Gold, and Ferdinand's ice cream...

Touchdown, Washington State....and a free Grabber for the first 7 people to text 509-GOCOUGS...

 

[dgibbons]

Which would still be way more than our media contract........

If you want to be technical, you don't know that and no one else does either. WSU does not have a media deal past 2025. And the B1G doesn't have one past the 2029-2030 season. What is 25 percent of an unknown number?

 

[ttowncoug]

These days, I think you sign kids that can get on the field and play. That means you only recruit HS kids that fit that bill.

I also hear that red shirting is about to go away and we will see 5 to play 5 soon.

I really think colleges should have a JV league. It would be cool to have the JV team play on Friday nights with the Varsity team playing on Saturday.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I really think colleges should have a JV league. It would be cool to have the JV team play on Friday nights with the Varsity team playing on Saturday.

Be interesting to see how to TV ratings would be for Ohio State vs. Notre Dame or Alabama vs. Texas junior varsity games versus random "G5" games on Friday nights?

Which one would move the needle more or it would it be split roughly 50/50?

 

[95coug]

Be interesting to see how to TV ratings would be for Ohio State vs. Notre Dame or Alabama vs. Texas junior varsity games versus random "G5" games on Friday nights?

Which one would move the needle more or it would it be split roughly 50/50?

Or, in a different alignment of the same concept, do we start to see college football set up like pro baseball with major and minor leagues? Idaho and WSU become the farm clubs for Michigan, for example - kids who play well for WSU get called up to the big club. Kids who don't perform in Ann Arbor get sent down to PUllman?

When I was at WSU, some of the regional community colleges still offered football, and the WSU JV played against them. Wenatchee Valley and Walla Walla still had teams, and I think maybe Treasure Valley had one too. Spokane had just given theirs up. I can see a regional alignment (such as the idea of inviting all Tier 1 schools west of Denver) creating a situation where we could have more of a JV/varsity alignment. That could actually be pretty fun too...and might be a way to keep more of the local kids playing near home. We'll still see the star players going to bigger schools, but the kids who are going to sit on the bench for 3-4 years with the hope that someday they'll play a kickoff return in a bowl game....maybe those kids then opt to actually play against more regional competitition.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Or, in a different alignment of the same concept, do we start to see college football set up like pro baseball with major and minor leagues? Idaho and WSU become the farm clubs for Michigan, for example - kids who play well for WSU get called up to the big club. Kids who don't perform in Ann Arbor get sent down to PUllman?

When I was at WSU, some of the regional community colleges still offered football, and the WSU JV played against them. Wenatchee Valley and Walla Walla still had teams, and I think maybe Treasure Valley had one too. Spokane had just given theirs up. I can see a regional alignment (such as the idea of inviting all Tier 1 schools west of Denver) creating a situation where we could have more of a JV/varsity alignment. That could actually be pretty fun too...and might be a way to keep more of the local kids playing near home. We'll still see the star players going to bigger schools, but the kids who are going to sit on the bench for 3-4 years with the hope that someday they'll play a kickoff return in a bowl game....maybe those kids then opt to actually play against more regional competitition.

That could be a lot of fun.

Even some away games would be within driving distance