Wilmer hot seat list: how long is the Jimmy Rogers leash....?

[ttowncoug]

Trent Brey (OSU) and Brent Brennan (UA) are listed. I know the Cougs usually aren't that fickle, but WSU can not afford to have Cougar football slide off the rails.

Jimmy Rogers needs to bring in power 4 level talent to keep WSU relevant in this new era. Bringing in a class that was at an FCS school can only be thought of as temporizing (IE what they had to do to fill the roster holes) not a long-term program building solution.

The hot seat list:

The college football coaches in the West sitting on hottest seats | Analysis

Five football coaches from the former Pac-12 are sitting on hot seats as they enter 2025. Here's who they are and what challenges they face.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[MRICoug]

It will get worse before it gets better. In some ways it helps to have guys bought into the system and all, but that does not make up for the lack of true FBS bodies.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

ttown, it will be interesting to see how this FCS-heavy class does. I've always felt that coaches as a group tend to rate prospects more accurately than the "football gurus", many of whom never played. As an example, we have picked up some OL in this class rated right around 80, +/- a point or two. Are the ones that the gurus rated at 83 or 84 really any better? And how much better is a kid the gurus rated at 85 or 86? Over and over we see staffs that seem to recruit based on the guru's evaluations, ending up with top ranked recruiting classes, and those classes often don't pan out. UCLA never has had a really poor recruiting class, and they have typically been top 20-30. But they have seldom had a top 30 team. I also have to ask, what is the difference between a top 10 FCS team and an average P4 team, other than depth? I'm not making an argument either way; actually, I'm pretty stoked to see how this works out. You are right that this influx of kids is very FCS-heavy. Every one of these kids will have something to prove, as will the staff. Looks like a great research experiment. I'm more interested in spring ball this year than at any time since Leach's first year.

 

[Suudy]

what is the difference between a top 10 FCS team and an average P4 team, other than depth?

Exactly. I've always thought this. The best FCS players could play on any FBS team--maybe not as a star, but certainly a starter. The problem is they get tired or injured and the next man up isn't quite up to snuff. FCS teams need all cylinders firing the entire game to knock off middling (sometimes upper tier) FBS teams. But they can't do it week after week after week.

When WSU played Montana many, many moons ago (Palouse Posse days?), a Montana player was crushed on a play. It was a good, clean block (tackle? can't remember exactly). He got up quite woozy and didn't return to the game for quite a while. I remember in the paper the next day the article about the game quoted him, and he said something like "That's why there's a difference between Div IAA and Div I. They can hit and take a hit."

(Edit: We did play Montana in '95. We won 38-21. Montana went on to win the FCS title that year.)

 

[UberCougars]

Trent Brey (OSU) and Brent Brennan (UA) are listed. I know the Cougs usually aren't that fickle, but WSU can not afford to have Cougar football slide off the rails.

Jimmy Rogers needs to bring in power 4 level talent to keep WSU relevant in this new era. Bringing in a class that was at an FCS school can only be thought of as temporizing (IE what they had to do to fill the roster holes) not a long-term program building solution.

The hot seat list:

The college football coaches in the West sitting on hottest seats | Analysis

Five football coaches from the former Pac-12 are sitting on hot seats as they enter 2025. Here's who they are and what challenges they face.

www.seattletimes.com

Get on board or GTFO.

Too many old has beens who never were, criticizing the young Hot Shot coach make his job harder, not easier.

If you want him WSU to succeed, you can support WSU’s mission to be a CFP program by recruiting new 1890 members.

 

[MRICoug]

ttown, it will be interesting to see how this FCS-heavy class does. I've always felt that coaches as a group tend to rate prospects more accurately than the "football gurus", many of whom never played. As an example, we have picked up some OL in this class rated right around 80, +/- a point or two. Are the ones that the gurus rated at 83 or 84 really any better? And how much better is a kid the gurus rated at 85 or 86? Over and over we see staffs that seem to recruit based on the guru's evaluations, ending up with top ranked recruiting classes, and those classes often don't pan out. UCLA never has had a really poor recruiting class, and they have typically been top 20-30. But they have seldom had a top 30 team. I also have to ask, what is the difference between a top 10 FCS team and an average P4 team, other than depth? I'm not making an argument either way; actually, I'm pretty stoked to see how this works out. You are right that this influx of kids is very FCS-heavy. Every one of these kids will have something to prove, as will the staff. Looks like a great research experiment. I'm more interested in spring ball this year than at any time since Leach's first year.

We have already seen something similar when Wulff was here. We know that it ends with USC taking a knee before half....

 

[mikalalas]

Trent Brey (OSU) and Brent Brennan (UA) are listed. I know the Cougs usually aren't that fickle, but WSU can not afford to have Cougar football slide off the rails.

Jimmy Rogers needs to bring in power 4 level talent to keep WSU relevant in this new era. Bringing in a class that was at an FCS school can only be thought of as temporizing (IE what they had to do to fill the roster holes) not a long-term program building solution.

The hot seat list:

The college football coaches in the West sitting on hottest seats | Analysis

Five football coaches from the former Pac-12 are sitting on hot seats as they enter 2025. Here's who they are and what challenges they face.

www.seattletimes.com

The 3,4,5, High End 3 star, 3.5 star recruits, including TOP 10 JC TRANSFER DEVIN ELLISION A WR who had 800 yards receiving and 16 touchdowns, in only 8 to 10 games, in only playing about 2 quarter per game, in blow out games, so probably would have had 1600 yards receiving and 32 TD's if had played whole games, instead of only half games, 2 quarters. Rogers beat out the Big 12's UCF, a P4 teams, program for that recruit. Rogers is, has beat out Nebraska, Texas Tech, semi blue bloods, P4 programs for the other 2,3,4 recruits.

Also you are aware that WSU AD hired Rogers LATE AFTER PORTAL CLOSED, AFTER there was only SLIM PICKINGS LEFT.

You are aware that Rogers had to cobble together a team after losing 30+ players to the portal, NIL, etc, in time for Spring Practice.

Rogers will probably hit the Portal when it reopens, and will probably hit LA, CA, Chicago, Kansas City, St Louis, Minneapolis, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, next year, season.

 

[PeteTheChop]

We have already seen something similar when Wulff was here. We know that it ends with USC taking a knee before half....

Not sure Cougs will play too many teams as talented as the Trojans that won 69-0 in 2008. Or the Stanford team that defeated CPW 58-0 two weeks later.

Those teams had some horses

 

[425cougfan]

We have already seen something similar when Wulff was here. We know that it ends with USC taking a knee before half....

Not a prediction one way or the other here, but I take some solace in knowing there likely is a massive difference between Rogers and Wulff based on their records (I recall Wulff being something like 53-40 at Eastern despite stepping into a good situation, whereas Rogers' record speaks for itself; he also was in a great situation, but he grew up in that program and learned under others who were on the same page). One also could argue HS recruiting isn't as significant today as it was then. Wulff definitely wasn't going to bring in difference-making transfers, whereas Rogers has done a bit of that and could do more (subject to NIL limitations).

Various other ways to look at these two guys and their respective eras, but my point is that while I share some concern over the Wulff comp, the mere facts that these guys both came from FCS, and Rogers is having to cobble together a class and bring some guys who were at or going to a championship-level FCS team, doesn't necessarily compel the conclusion that we're going to be losing 63-0 in the next couple of years.

 

[CougPatrol]

What do you mean WSU can't afford for our football program to fall off the rails? We barely averaged 20K fans/game last year, and that was after an Apple Cup win in September. We're playing a mid-level G5 conference schedule in 2025, and then moving into a conference with Boise State, Oregon State, Fresno State, SDSU, Utah State, and Colorado State.

 

[MRICoug]

Not sure Cougs will play too many teams as talented as the Trojans that won 69-0 in 2008. Or the Stanford team that defeated CPW 58-0 two weeks later.

Those teams had some horses

They did have horses, and yet they did not overpower any other teams on the schedule to that extent. The Wulff mistake that killed his chances in my eyes is n0t bringing anyone in with him that was able to recruit to FBS standards. I am hoping this is not a repeat, but convincing kids that were already committed to playing for you to come to WSU is not a good indicator future recruiting will be much different that SDSU was doing. Ole Miss will be very similarly talented to that USC squad next year, but nobody else will. Not sure we will be more talented than that WSU squad either though...which is problematic.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Not a prediction one way or the other here, but I take some solace in knowing there likely is a massive difference between Rogers and Wulff based on their records (I recall Wulff being something like 53-40 at Eastern despite stepping into a good situation, whereas Rogers' record speaks for itself; he also was in a great situation, but he grew up in that program and learned under others who were on the same page). One also could argue HS recruiting isn't as significant today as it was then. Wulff definitely wasn't going to bring in difference-making transfers, whereas Rogers has done a bit of that and could do more (subject to NIL limitations).

Various other ways to look at these two guys and their respective eras, but my point is that while I share some concern over the Wulff comp, the mere facts that these guys both came from FCS, and Rogers is having to cobble together a class and bring some guys who were at or going to a championship-level FCS team, doesn't necessarily compel the conclusion that we're going to be losing 63-0 in the next couple of years.

WSU in 2025 heading toward a rebuilt Pac-12 seems a lot more do-able for a coach getting his feet wet in FBS than the conference in '08 where there was a much bigger gap between the top programs and those in more of a rebuilding mode

 

[MRICoug]

Not a prediction one way or the other here, but I take some solace in knowing there likely is a massive difference between Rogers and Wulff based on their records (I recall Wulff being something like 53-40 at Eastern despite stepping into a good situation, whereas Rogers' record speaks for itself; he also was in a great situation, but he grew up in that program and learned under others who were on the same page). One also could argue HS recruiting isn't as significant today as it was then. Wulff definitely wasn't going to bring in difference-making transfers, whereas Rogers has done a bit of that and could do more (subject to NIL limitations).

Various other ways to look at these two guys and their respective eras, but my point is that while I share some concern over the Wulff comp, the mere facts that these guys both came from FCS, and Rogers is having to cobble together a class and bring some guys who were at or going to a championship-level FCS team, doesn't necessarily compel the conclusion that we're going to be losing 63-0 in the next couple of years.

I hear what you are saying, but he is bringing so many SDSU (25-30 so far?) guys which makes me nervous. We already had a talent gap on both lines of scrimmage, and maybe that gets a bit better with having some coaching continuity (SDSU Players and coaches). He may turn out to be the best coach ever to coach here. I certainly don't think he is a failure, but I do think next year will be. Hope I am very wrong and they Suprise me.

 

[Observer11]

Exactly. I've always thought this. The best FCS players could play on any FBS team--maybe not as a star, but certainly a starter. The problem is they get tired or injured and the next man up isn't quite up to snuff. FCS teams need all cylinders firing the entire game to knock off middling (sometimes upper tier) FBS teams. But they can't do it week after week after week.

When WSU played Montana many, many moons ago (Palouse Posse days?), a Montana player was crushed on a play. It was a good, clean block (tackle? can't remember exactly). He got up quite woozy and didn't return to the game for quite a while. I remember in the paper the next day the article about the game quoted him, and he said something like "That's why there's a difference between Div IAA and Div I. They can hit and take a hit."

(Edit: We did play Montana in '95. We won 38-21. Montana went on to win the FCS title that year.)

Phillip Glover decapitated the Montana player.

 

[MRICoug]

What do you mean WSU can't afford for our football program to fall off the rails? We barely averaged 20K fans/game last year, and that was after an Apple Cup win in September. We're playing a mid-level G5 conference schedule in 2025, and then moving into a conference with Boise State, Oregon State, Fresno State, SDSU, Utah State, and Colorado State.

2025 Regular Season​

vsIdaho
TBD
vsSan Diego St
TBD
@North Texas
TBD
vsWashington
TBD
@Colorado St
TBD
@Ole Miss
TBD
@Virginia
TBD
vsToledo
TBD
@Oregon St
TBD
vsLouisiana Tech
TBD
@James Madison
TBD
vsOregon St
TBD


I am not sure I see one team on here that we are definitively better than. Idaho may take a step back, but they were a high-level FCS last year/ JMU was good, Toledo is usually at the top 2-3 of the Mac OSU is a year ahead of us in rebuilding and kicked the snot out of us last year. Maybe La Tech?

 

[425cougfan]

I hear what you are saying, but he is bringing so many SDSU (25-30 so far?) guys which makes me nervous. We already had a talent gap on both lines of scrimmage, and maybe that gets a bit better with having some coaching continuity (SDSU Players and coaches). He may turn out to be the best coach ever to coach here. I certainly don't think he is a failure, but I do think next year will be. Hope I am very wrong and they Suprise me.

Yeah, I hear you on those points and believe they're good ones. Don't get me wrong on this ... it's not like I'm elated by it. More like I'm considering whether there are reasons for hope that this isn't going to be Wulffian, including the likelihood he has a different approach in a full cycle, and I believe we have some.

 

[ttowncoug]

The number of SDSU kids is concerning, but the fact is, he had very little time to evaluate and had to go with what he knew with the massive roster losses we had.

SDSU's program just got a huge blow too, which I feel bad about honestly.

 

[Suudy]

Phillip Glover decapitated the Montana player.

That was it! Thanks!

Glover Scores An Easy Ko

Washington State's Phillip Glover said hello and goodbye to a fraternity brother on Saturday, all on one bone-crushing hit in the second quarter. Glover, a reserve linebacker, sent Montana kick returner Scott Spraggins to the sideline for good with a tackle that is coming soon to a...

www.spokesman.com

 

[Wasichus]

2025 Regular Season​

vsIdaho
TBD
vsSan Diego St
TBD
@North Texas
TBD
vsWashington
TBD
@Colorado St
TBD
@Ole Miss
TBD
@Virginia
TBD
vsToledo
TBD
@Oregon St
TBD
vsLouisiana Tech
TBD
@James Madison
TBD
vsOregon St
TBD


I am not sure I see one team on here that we are definitively better than. Idaho may take a step back, but they were a high-level FCS last year/ JMU was good, Toledo is usually at the top 2-3 of the Mac OSU is a year ahead of us in rebuilding and kicked the snot out of us last year. Maybe La Tech?

OSU “kicked the snot out of us last year”? In what alternate reality does a 55 yard FG to win, with 20 seconds left on the clock, equate to a “snot kicking”?

Hyperbole much?

 

[425cougfan]

That was it! Thanks!

Glover Scores An Easy Ko

Washington State's Phillip Glover said hello and goodbye to a fraternity brother on Saturday, all on one bone-crushing hit in the second quarter. Glover, a reserve linebacker, sent Montana kick returner Scott Spraggins to the sideline for good with a tackle that is coming soon to a...

www.spokesman.com

I remember that. Also, in the spirit of intellectual honesty and since it's top of mind, I remember being in the stands in 2011 for that Idaho State game (the one in which Tuel was sick and got injured in a game that wasn't competitive, reportedly preventing Wulff from winning the natty that year) and the extent to which even relatively run-of-the-mill Wulff recruits were just absolutely destroying some of those Idaho State kids was amazing. Lots of talk in the crowd expressing concern for their safety and all that, which was especially remarkable considering how overmatched WSU had been in the preceding three years. That team wasn't even a good FCS team, though. Huge difference.

 

[MRICoug]

OSU “kicked the snot out of us last year”? In what alternate reality does a 55 yard FG to win, with 20 seconds left on the clock, equate to a “snot kicking”?

Hyperbole much?

They were a bad team and outplayed us. Put 41 up on our D. Were they a great team no. Did you feel like we were going to win that game at any point? I doubt it.

 

[mikalalas]

2025 Regular Season​

vsIdaho
TBD
vsSan Diego St
TBD
@North Texas
TBD
vsWashington
TBD
@Colorado St
TBD
@Ole Miss
TBD
@Virginia
TBD
vsToledo
TBD
@Oregon St
TBD
vsLouisiana Tech
TBD
@James Madison
TBD
vsOregon St
TBD


I am not sure I see one team on here that we are definitively better than. Idaho may take a step back, but they were a high-level FCS last year/ JMU was good, Toledo is usually at the top 2-3 of the Mac OSU is a year ahead of us in rebuilding and kicked the snot out of us last year. Maybe La Tech?

Idaho: WSU win, probably semi easy win, Eck gone, new coach.

SDSU: WSU Win. Probably semi tough, semi closer win, might be a toss up.

North Texas: WSU win. Probably semi tough, semi closer, might be a toss up

UW: WSU Loss, probably bad loss, probably lose by a semi lot.

CSU: WSU win. Probably semi tougher, semi closer, might be a toss up.

Ole Miss: WSU loss. Probably a semi blow out loss.

Virginia: WSU loss. Probably a semi blow out loss.

Toledo: WSU win. Semi tough closer win. Might be a toss up

At Oregon St: WSU Loss.

Louisiana Tech: WSU win. Probably easy win

James Madison: WSU win. Semi closer, semi tough win, might be a toss up.

Oregon St at WSU home: WSU win.

So WSU probably win about, at least 5 at worst, 6,7 at average, 8 at good, 9 at best case.

It's not as bad as some think.

 

[Wasichus]

They were a bad team and outplayed us. Put 41 up on our D. Were they a great team no. Did you feel like we were going to win that game at any point? I doubt it.

They won that game on a long field goal with very little time left on the clock. That in no way fits any reasonable definition of “kicking the snot out of us”.

It does fit the angry fan view of justifying his reactions and statements.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

After the old Pac conference collapse, it's going to be very hard to turn around any fan apathy.

 

[Suudy]

They were a bad team and outplayed us. Put 41 up on our D. Were they a great team no. Did you feel like we were going to win that game at any point? I doubt it.

I seem to recall an underwhelming performance by Mateer and the O--over a series of 3 games. So, yeah, I expected us to outscore them. Even if we won 62-55, I expected our O to put up numbers. Too bad some had quit the team by then. Mateer's heart was already in Norman.

Let me bastardize Shakespeare here quoting Henry V:

Dickert (Westmoreland): They know your Grace hath cause and means and might; So hath your Highness. Never coach of Oklahoma had noble players better and more hungry for dollars whose hearts have left their bodies in Pullman and lie pavilioned in the fields of Norman.

1Oklahoma (Bishop of Canterbury): Oh let their bodies follow, my dear liege, with arm and run and grit to win your right. In aid whereof we of the 1Oklahoma Collective will raise your Highness such a mighty sum as never did the collective board at one time bring into any of your predecessors.

Venables (King Henry): Now we are well resolved, and by avarice's help, and yours, the noble sinews of our power, Mateer being ours, we'll bend him to our awe (or break him all to pieces).

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I've been a Coug football fan since 1969, have seen the highs and lows, and am pretty realistic. I'm frankly surprised by some of these posts. I am not one of the "woe is me, the sky is falling" group. Feel free to disagree, but here is how I'm looking at it:

- New coach announced, too late to do a lot of recruiting for his new school.
- Old coach and NIL/portal in general suck a bunch of our better players away.
- New coach more running attack oriented. Brings in a group of his FCS playoff kids who know his system.
- New coach does what he can to salvage the rest of the remaining roster and does reasonably well.
- New coach picks up a better transfer class than I expected overall, given the timing issues. Majority are FCS (but FCS blue bloods, and yes, I think that is a fair statement). Some also from the P4 world.
- Decent incoming high school class. I particularly like the O line recruiting emphasis.
- I expect that, given how many came from his old program, his offense and defense will be more successfully installed during spring ball than is usually the case with a new coach.
- All of the FCS bluebloods live and die with conditioning. I expect us to be in better physical condition entering next fall than at any time since we had the Leach Beach.
- This team will be made up of kids with something to prove. That attitude is critical if you are going to maximize your strength program gains, because it is a lot of work over a long period of time.
- Dickert's teams tended to be ready to play early in the season. I expect the 2025 team, again given its leavening with kids who came from his system, will be even more ready to play early than Dickert's teams. I expect very little drop off from the massive staff changeover.

Long story short, I think we probably have a better overall record next year than UW. If I were betting, I'd say UW wins 5 and we win 7. And our potential upside is greater from that point than our downside.