WSU @ ASU GAME THREAD

[Glad Cougar]

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by wulffui:
Going into the Apple Cup? No, 6-5. We finished 6-6 because we lost the Apple Cup.

Ope. You're right on that. Well then, 1 year since that happened. 11 prior to that.

Let's enjoy it before it's too far back in the rear view, and look forward to not spending so much time looking into the rear view in the future.

Sigh.

Actually, WSU was also 6-5 going into the Apple Cup in 2006 under Bill Doba. That was the year a six-win team did not get invited to a bowl, of course. So it actually has been twice in 8 years that the Cougs have had a winning record going into AC.

Glad Cougar

 

[chipdouglas]

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by wulffui:
Going into the Apple Cup? No, 6-5. We finished 6-6 because we lost the Apple Cup.

Ope. You're right on that. Well then, 1 year since that happened. 11 prior to that.

Let's enjoy it before it's too far back in the rear view, and look forward to not spending so much time looking into the rear view in the future.

Sigh.

Actually, WSU was also 6-5 going into the Apple Cup in 2006 under Bill Doba. That was the year a six-win team did not get invited to a bowl, of course. So it actually has been twice in 8 years that the Cougs have had a winning record going into AC.

Glad Cougar

Well then. A rash of successes around Apple Cup time since the Price era ended, it would seem.

 

[Cougsocal]

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:
I fear we are starting to see the effect of pressure on a young QB. Falk takes a few licks and suddenly those dimes we were seeing at OSU and early in this game are turning into overthrows and interceptions.

And again, our backs cannot get a single effing yard after contact. So frustrating. You can tackle them off balance and with one arm; it's like tackling a child. Put Mayle in the backfield so we can at least get 2 when we need it.

LOL....Morrow looked like a strong child on that play at least. It would be nice to have a power back for those short yardage situations, but I think for a freshman, Morrow has done well. Don't forget his value as a receiver....he's broken Broussard's single season record for receptions by a RB.

Glad Cougar

I don't question his value as a receiver.

If we pass 5 straight times, the first 5 rushing yards for our backs are free. That's a playcalling thing, not a "those backs are good" thing. In the instance you mention, he got maybe 7-8 before contact, and fought for 4-5 more.

I love it.

I'd also love it if it happened more than 1 time out of 10. More often than not, our tiny backs can't get back to the LOS, easily get blown up on lateral plays etc. I am CONSTANTLY seeing them get taken down with bad, one-armed tackles because they're so small.

Nobody is saying we can't have a tiny back or two on our roster, or that we're going to get a Todd Gurley type guy in Pullman--but give me a couple of 3-star guys north of 215 who you have to respect on short situations. If one of those guys turns into a solid bruiser and has a bunch of broken tackles and goal line TDs, there is nobody at WW who will say we need to get back to those 5'8" 175-pound RBs. I'm getting flashbacks of the Woof era here.

I don't think we disagree about the need to have bigger, stronger backs. I just don't think Morrow and Wicks are as weak as you describe. When they get caught for a loss or no gain, most often it's because our line has not created any openings for them, and with the RBs set so deep in the backfield in shotgun formation, they have a ways to go just to get to the line of scrimage. Our OL does not sustain blocks on running plays very well. Nonetheless, I'd love to have a Kerry Porter, Reuben Mayes, Jerome Harrison, etc....

Glad Cougar

RUEBEN MAYES for christ sake, the guy is in the NCAA hall of fame

 

[chipdouglas]

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:
I fear we are starting to see the effect of pressure on a young QB. Falk takes a few licks and suddenly those dimes we were seeing at OSU and early in this game are turning into overthrows and interceptions.

And again, our backs cannot get a single effing yard after contact. So frustrating. You can tackle them off balance and with one arm; it's like tackling a child. Put Mayle in the backfield so we can at least get 2 when we need it.

LOL....Morrow looked like a strong child on that play at least. It would be nice to have a power back for those short yardage situations, but I think for a freshman, Morrow has done well. Don't forget his value as a receiver....he's broken Broussard's single season record for receptions by a RB.

Glad Cougar

I don't question his value as a receiver.

If we pass 5 straight times, the first 5 rushing yards for our backs are free. That's a playcalling thing, not a "those backs are good" thing. In the instance you mention, he got maybe 7-8 before contact, and fought for 4-5 more.

I love it.

I'd also love it if it happened more than 1 time out of 10. More often than not, our tiny backs can't get back to the LOS, easily get blown up on lateral plays etc. I am CONSTANTLY seeing them get taken down with bad, one-armed tackles because they're so small.

Nobody is saying we can't have a tiny back or two on our roster, or that we're going to get a Todd Gurley type guy in Pullman--but give me a couple of 3-star guys north of 215 who you have to respect on short situations. If one of those guys turns into a solid bruiser and has a bunch of broken tackles and goal line TDs, there is nobody at WW who will say we need to get back to those 5'8" 175-pound RBs. I'm getting flashbacks of the Woof era here.

I don't think we disagree about the need to have bigger, stronger backs. I just don't think Morrow and Wicks are as weak as you describe. When they get caught for a loss or no gain, most often it's because our line has not created any openings for them, and with the RBs set so deep in the backfield in shotgun formation, they have a ways to go just to get to the line of scrimage. Our OL does not sustain blocks on running plays very well. Nonetheless, I'd love to have a Kerry Porter, Reuben Mayes, Jerome Harrison, etc....

Glad Cougar

RUEBEN MAYES for christ sake, the guy is in the NCAA hall of fame

What's your point? Reuben Mayes was 200 pounds, according to the College Football Hall of Fame.

The last RB under 200 pounds to join the CFB Hall of Fame was Kenny Gamble in 1987--that was almost 30 years ago!

Going back almost 40 years, since 1975, the average weight of a CFB HOF RB is 207 pounds. I don't think height is as much of a factor, but FWIW the average is almost 6 feet (71.3").

Wicks is the only guy over 200, and he hasn't played in a month. The weights (and heights) of all of our other backs are all sub-200 (and sub-6 foot). In fact, outside of Wicks, our 3-deep average weight/height is 184.8 / 5'8".

Look--obviously we're absolutely KILLING it right now in the run game and seeing a LOT of success with those monsters in the backfield (averaging 2.2 YPC overall and nobody has a long run of more than 26 yards!), so I understand the resistance to change. But I'd like to see us bring in a few more big guys over the next few years and try our luck with a few dudes who can power through arm tackles too. If it fails as badly as it has with 200+ pounders like Gordon and Chubb and Gurley, we can go back to the tiny backs we've had so much success with.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by wulffui:
Going into the Apple Cup? No, 6-5. We finished 6-6 because we lost the Apple Cup.

Ope. You're right on that. Well then, 1 year since that happened. 11 prior to that.

Let's enjoy it before it's too far back in the rear view, and look forward to not spending so much time looking into the rear view in the future.

Sigh.

Actually, WSU was also 6-5 going into the Apple Cup in 2006 under Bill Doba. That was the year a six-win team did not get invited to a bowl, of course. So it actually has been twice in 8 years that the Cougs have had a winning record going into AC.

Glad Cougar

Well then. A rash of successes around Apple Cup time since the Price era ended, it would seem.

I get your point, we've been a horse---t team for a long time. I just think there's no need to make it worse than it actually has been. Not trying to be a jerk, just have a thing for accuracy. Old Professor Dunne drilled that into me in Com 165 and 365 back in the 70s while preparing us for careers in broadcast journalism. Sorry about that.

Glad Cougar

 

[chipdouglas]

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by Glad Cougar:

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by wulffui:
Going into the Apple Cup? No, 6-5. We finished 6-6 because we lost the Apple Cup.

Ope. You're right on that. Well then, 1 year since that happened. 11 prior to that.

Let's enjoy it before it's too far back in the rear view, and look forward to not spending so much time looking into the rear view in the future.

Sigh.

Actually, WSU was also 6-5 going into the Apple Cup in 2006 under Bill Doba. That was the year a six-win team did not get invited to a bowl, of course. So it actually has been twice in 8 years that the Cougs have had a winning record going into AC.

Glad Cougar

Well then. A rash of successes around Apple Cup time since the Price era ended, it would seem.

I get your point, we've been a horse---t team for a long time. I just think there's no need to make it worse than it actually has been. Not trying to be a jerk, just have a thing for accuracy. Old Professor Dunne drilled that into me in Com 165 and 365 back in the 70s while preparing us for careers in broadcast journalism. Sorry about that.

Glad Cougar

Nope, no problem. I realized at the time my post would sound snarky, but I wanted to emphasize the *spirit* of my claim.

I had said we hadn't had a winning record going into the AC basically since the Price transition. It was (obviously) pointed out that in fact it had happened--if only twice, and if only just. While that makes my suggestion literally untrue, we've been "down" 10 out of those 12 years now, and having 2 minor successes does little to change that.

We're good (you and I, not the team obviously!)