Is Dr. Schulz looking at the Big 12 as a back-up plan?

[PeteTheChop]

Sounds like Colorado and possibly Arizona are in various of levels of discussion with the Big 12 in case the new Pac-12 commissioner Klinkoff can't produce a TV deal agreeable to all 10 remaining schools.

Are Schulz and Chun staying in touch with other conferences (like the Big 12) in case the Pac-12 starts to crumble like some of these talking heads predict?

LINK: College football expansion: Colorado could move to Big 12 "soon," per report

 

[ttowncoug]

I would suspect all options are on the table if the Pac12 folds. I don’t see it. Oregon and UW aren’t leaving.

 

[CougPatrol]

I would suspect all options are on the table if the Pac12 folds. I don’t see it. Oregon and UW aren’t leaving.

If the P12 deal isn’t a good one, UW and Oregon absolutely will leave.

 

[BiggsCoug]

WSU should be actively pursuing B12 membership.

Do not stay on the Titanic so long that you miss the last lifeboat.

Get out and row away.

Join the B12 and start a rodeo program.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

WSU should be actively pursuing B12 membership.

Do not stay on the Titanic so long that you miss the last lifeboat.

Get out and row away.

Join the B12 and start a rodeo program.

No. We should play beautiful music like on the Titanic as the ship goes down.

Have some class.

 

[BiggsCoug]

No. We should play beautiful music like on the Titanic as the ship goes down.

Have some class.

Typical. WSU getting its innocence back.

 

[ttowncoug]

If the P12 deal isn’t a good one, UW and Oregon absolutely will leave.

Where? There’s not an invite to the Big10. Where are they going?

 

[froropmkr72]

If the P12 deal isn’t a good one, UW and Oregon absolutely will leave.

I can't believe the Pac 10 deal could be bad, but.

 

[froropmkr72]

WSU should be actively pursuing B12 membership.

Do not stay on the Titanic so long that you miss the last lifeboat.

Get out and row away.

Join the B12 and start a rodeo program.

Does all true competition end with in a duopoly? Not the way things are supposed to be.

 

[froropmkr72]

Does all true competition end with in a duopoly? Not the way things are supposed to be.

I'm pretty sure I heard Milton Friedman roll over in his grave and say.....I'm sorry what was that you said sir??? "I guess I was just a dumbass". This is just stupid!!

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I'm pretty sure I heard Milton Friedman roll over in his grave and say.....I'm sorry what was that you said sir??? "I guess I was just a dumbass". This is just stupid!!

Well, our corrupt government has shown over the past couple of decades they love duopolies, monopolies, etc.

Consolidation of power is the name of the game. Easier to control people.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Typical. WSU getting its innocence back.

Psst...it was a joke.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Psst...it was a joke.

Psst I know. Im that crabby.

 

[Wazzubrooz]

I’ve seen several projections in print the last six months and if / when the PAC goes under. No conference has expressed any interest in either WSU or the Beavs. They don’t make the cut whe n/ if the PAC agrees to join the Big12.

 

[Coug90]

Where? There’s not an invite to the Big10. Where are they going?

Hmmm…Eugene and Montlake- New conference… “The Big Wet Shithole?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I’ve seen several projections in print the last six months and if / when the PAC goes under. No conference has expressed any interest in either WSU or the Beavs. They don’t make the cut whe n/ if the PAC agrees to join the Big12.

We (and Oregon State) definitely suffer from a perception problem. If things do go to hell in a handbasket, it's going to be up to Chun and Schulz to show our value. Of note is that perception is often a long way from reality. Below is the listing of the Pac-12 teams in TV ratings with their national ranking:

1) Oregon (12th)
2) USC (14th)
3) UCLA (25th)
4) Utah (33rd)
5) UW (34th)
6) WSU (41st)
7) Cal (45th)
8) Stanford (47th)
9) OSU (57th)
10) Arizona (62nd)
11) Colorado (67th)
12) ASU (71st)

The most notable thing on the list is that USC and UCLA are pretty mediocre considering their TV market. The other sad reality is that no Pac-12 team is in the Top 10 in TV ratings. What that list does suggest is that if conference shakeups are really about eyeballs on games, WSU shouldn't be left out in the cold. Whether that ends up being reality is a different conversation.

One bit of good news is that we'll get a nice bump from playing Wisconsin on ABC. That game by itself should pad our TV ratings a bit. We do have a fairly favorable first half schedule. CSU, Northern Colorado, Oregon State, UCLA and Arizona are all winnable games. It would not be shocking for us to be 5-1 at the midpoint. At this point, Oregon and UW are the only two games in the back half that look daunting. 6-0 Oregon vs 5-1 WSU is a probable high level TV matchup. Even if we lose to Oregon, we get ASU, Stanford and Cal after them....three more winnable games. 8-2 WSU facing Colorado might get some attention if the Sanders experiment doesn't implode. All this means that if Ward has truly improved, we aren't dropping in that list above and that bodes well for future discussions. We'll see.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

We (and Oregon State) definitely suffer from a perception problem. If things do go to hell in a handbasket, it's going to be up to Chun and Schulz to show our value. Of note is that perception is often a long way from reality. Below is the listing of the Pac-12 teams in TV ratings with their national ranking:

1) Oregon (12th)
2) USC (14th)
3) UCLA (25th)
4) Utah (33rd)
5) UW (34th)
6) WSU (41st)
7) Cal (45th)
8) Stanford (47th)
9) OSU (57th)
10) Arizona (62nd)
11) Colorado (67th)
12) ASU (71st)

The most notable thing on the list is that USC and UCLA are pretty mediocre considering their TV market. The other sad reality is that no Pac-12 team is in the Top 10 in TV ratings. What that list does suggest is that if conference shakeups are really about eyeballs on games, WSU shouldn't be left out in the cold. Whether that ends up being reality is a different conversation.

One bit of good news is that we'll get a nice bump from playing Wisconsin on ABC. That game by itself should pad our TV ratings a bit. We do have a fairly favorable first half schedule. CSU, Northern Colorado, Oregon State, UCLA and Arizona are all winnable games. It would not be shocking for us to be 5-1 at the midpoint. At this point, Oregon and UW are the only two games in the back half that look daunting. 6-0 Oregon vs 5-1 WSU is a probable high level TV matchup. Even if we lose to Oregon, we get ASU, Stanford and Cal after them....three more winnable games. 8-2 WSU facing Colorado might get some attention if the Sanders experiment doesn't implode. All this means that if Ward has truly improved, we aren't dropping in that list above and that bodes well for future discussions. We'll see.

Good stuff, thanks. How the Duckies can way outrank the mutts is beyond me. I think there are more people in the Seattle metro area than the entire state of Oregon. Not helping anyone is the number of games on the Pac-12 Network, which you have to have divine intervention to even find.

What really kills me is USC and UCLA bailing apparently just over the money. Like they don't have enough boosters, etc. to fund whatever the hell they want? WSU of course is a different story. I was watching old clips of Gameday last night, and the passion for the Cougs is so evident. The accompanying donations and attendance in general, not so much. And I plead guilty as well.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

The sky is not falling.

The media deal delays could be for either reason, at opposite ends of the spectrum: the money is not enough and the PAC will be disappointed; or the streaming folks have raised the competitive bar and the TV network(s) are checking their hole cards. My money is on the latter. IMHO the speculation about the demise of the PAC is off season click bait, fertilized by the B12.

 

[PeteTheChop]

We (and Oregon State) definitely suffer from a perception problem. If things do go to hell in a handbasket, it's going to be up to Chun and Schulz to show our value. Of note is that perception is often a long way from reality. Below is the listing of the Pac-12 teams in TV ratings with their national ranking:

1) Oregon (12th)
2) USC (14th)
3) UCLA (25th)
4) Utah (33rd)
5) UW (34th)
6) WSU (41st)
7) Cal (45th)
8) Stanford (47th)
9) OSU (57th)
10) Arizona (62nd)
11) Colorado (67th)
12) ASU (71st)

The most notable thing on the list is that USC and UCLA are pretty mediocre considering their TV market. The other sad reality is that no Pac-12 team is in the Top 10 in TV ratings. What that list does suggest is that if conference shakeups are really about eyeballs on games, WSU shouldn't be left out in the cold. Whether that ends up being reality is a different conversation.

One bit of good news is that we'll get a nice bump from playing Wisconsin on ABC. That game by itself should pad our TV ratings a bit. We do have a fairly favorable first half schedule. CSU, Northern Colorado, Oregon State, UCLA and Arizona are all winnable games. It would not be shocking for us to be 5-1 at the midpoint. At this point, Oregon and UW are the only two games in the back half that look daunting. 6-0 Oregon vs 5-1 WSU is a probable high level TV matchup. Even if we lose to Oregon, we get ASU, Stanford and Cal after them....three more winnable games. 8-2 WSU facing Colorado might get some attention if the Sanders experiment doesn't implode. All this means that if Ward has truly improved, we aren't dropping in that list above and that bodes well for future discussions. We'll see.

Post of the month Flat! (along with Crazy8's earlier this week)

WSU football is a national brand.

Greatest "GameDay" broadcast ever is a testament to it.

Same goes for the 41st-best TV ratings in the entire country.

Say what we want about those 32,000 members at Brand Z not buying tickets or supporting NIL or chipping in for facility improvements, but they are doing their part to boost TV ratings.

Gotta think ESPN and FOX will remind the Big XII leadership team to take a long, hard look at the Cougs

 

[CougPatrol]

The sky is not falling.

The media deal delays could be for either reason, at opposite ends of the spectrum: the money is not enough and the PAC will be disappointed; or the streaming folks have raised the competitive bar and the TV network(s) are checking their hole cards. My money is on the latter. IMHO the speculation about the demise of the PAC is off season click bait, fertilized by the B12.

The sky most definitely is falling on West coast college football, or at least, super conference football. Have any of you guys been to an SEC game? Games at Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State? Those atmospheres make Oregon. UW, and Utah feel like AAA baseball stadiums.

I think the P12 will survive for a few more years, maybe as many as 5 years, but beyond that, most of the programs out West are playing catch up in a race they have no chance of winning. Media dollars, booster participation in NIL, fan interest, and declining youth football numbers up and down the West coast; we're critically behind in every metric.

With all of that said, college football will still have a place out West, but most of the programs (especially WSU and OSU) had better get comfortable competing in a G5 type conference. Honestly, and I've said this before, that might end up being better for WSU. I'd rather see us compete in a conference with programs on par with our situation as opposed to playing 2-3 clicks above our heads financially in a league that's 2-3 time zones away. I'm sorry, but the thought of WSU playing in the B12 excites me as much as a trip to the dentist. I'd rather see us play Colorado State, Boise State, Air Force, Fresno, etc.

 

[roses04]

The sky most definitely is falling on West coast college football, or at least, super conference football. Have any of you guys been to an SEC game? Games at Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State? Those atmospheres make Oregon. UW, and Utah feel like AAA baseball stadiums.

I think the P12 will survive for a few more years, maybe as many as 5 years, but beyond that, most of the programs out West are playing catch up in a race they have no chance of winning. Media dollars, booster participation in NIL, fan interest, and declining youth football numbers up and down the West coast; we're critically behind in every metric.

With all of that said, college football will still have a place out West, but most of the programs (especially WSU and OSU) had better get comfortable competing in a G5 type conference. Honestly, and I've said this before, that might end up being better for WSU. I'd rather see us compete in a conference with programs on par with our situation as opposed to playing 2-3 clicks above our heads financially in a league that's 2-3 time zones away. I'm sorry, but the thought of WSU playing in the B12 excites me as much as a trip to the dentist. I'd rather see us play Colorado State, Boise State, Air Force, Fresno, etc.

The super conferences may eat up their own, as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Take football as an example, Look at Nebraska, for years was a top 10 at worst a top 20 team, move to the Big 10, they haven't been in top 25 since. What has Texas A&M done since they moved to the SEC? Yes they have been ranked and I believe have been there for I think 11 years, time flies, their record the past 5 years 39-21 or an average of 7.8 wins and 4.2 losses per year. You'd like to think with all that money, they'd be better.

Now Texas and Oklahoma move to the SEC this year, and USC and UCLA move to the Big 10 next year. I personally think that if 3 of the 4 teams fail to win big in the next 4-5 years, the consolidation of conferences may slow down. Qualifying as the pac 10/12 champ will be much easier than as the big 10/SEC champ. If Washington, Utah, and Oregon use the NIL money correctly they could get lucky and suprise people in a playoff. If it is LSU, Alabama, Georgia and Ohio State in the final 4 each year, ratings will drop along with the TV money. The playoff expansion to 12 helps, but with losing the bowl game history, to watch teams from the SEC win it every year, it may back fire.

The networks need OK, TX, USC and UCLA to be successful, or at least 2 or 3 of them, if not this whole blows up in their faces, which I think is more likely than them all being successful at some point over the next 5 years. Time will tell, but the sports progamming networks are not making the money they once were, a lot of layoff and cuts, and they are paying out a lot to broadcast all these events. Just like cable hurt, on air TV, you will see streaming bite into the cable platform budgets, that's why so many sports networks have begun streaming, it's the next thing. The Pac 12 could be irrelevant in 5 years or more, but if they hit the cycle right, they might surprise some people. Things don't look great for the Pac 12 right now, but the landscape can change quickly, as viewing habit are going through a major change.

 

[Coug90]

The sky most definitely is falling on West coast college football, or at least, super conference football. Have any of you guys been to an SEC game? Games at Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State? Those atmospheres make Oregon. UW, and Utah feel like AAA baseball stadiums.

I think the P12 will survive for a few more years, maybe as many as 5 years, but beyond that, most of the programs out West are playing catch up in a race they have no chance of winning. Media dollars, booster participation in NIL, fan interest, and declining youth football numbers up and down the West coast; we're critically behind in every metric.

With all of that said, college football will still have a place out West, but most of the programs (especially WSU and OSU) had better get comfortable competing in a G5 type conference. Honestly, and I've said this before, that might end up being better for WSU. I'd rather see us compete in a conference with programs on par with our situation as opposed to playing 2-3 clicks above our heads financially in a league that's 2-3 time zones away. I'm sorry, but the thought of WSU playing in the B12 excites me as much as a trip to the dentist. I'd rather see us play Colorado State, Boise State, Air Force, Fresno, etc.

Counterpoint…it all comes down to $$. In sports, TV contracts drive the $$. Sure, having a packed house is nice and being able to fill an 80K stadium is even nicer. But at the end of the day the conferences that put eyeballs on TVs and drive ad revenue are winning. As long as there’s markets that support it and national interest in enough of the schools then the P12 will be fine…regardless of the struggle for game attendance. As much as Larry Scott didn’t do his job for a decade, there seems to be a fair amount of interest in viewing the product, top to bottom in line with the other major conferences. Let the networks figure out the camera angles that will make the stadiums appear to be full.

 

[Coug90]

We (and Oregon State) definitely suffer from a perception problem. If things do go to hell in a handbasket, it's going to be up to Chun and Schulz to show our value. Of note is that perception is often a long way from reality. Below is the listing of the Pac-12 teams in TV ratings with their national ranking:

1) Oregon (12th)
2) USC (14th)
3) UCLA (25th)
4) Utah (33rd)
5) UW (34th)
6) WSU (41st)
7) Cal (45th)
8) Stanford (47th)
9) OSU (57th)
10) Arizona (62nd)
11) Colorado (67th)
12) ASU (71st)

The most notable thing on the list is that USC and UCLA are pretty mediocre considering their TV market. The other sad reality is that no Pac-12 team is in the Top 10 in TV ratings. What that list does suggest is that if conference shakeups are really about eyeballs on games, WSU shouldn't be left out in the cold. Whether that ends up being reality is a different conversation.

One bit of good news is that we'll get a nice bump from playing Wisconsin on ABC. That game by itself should pad our TV ratings a bit. We do have a fairly favorable first half schedule. CSU, Northern Colorado, Oregon State, UCLA and Arizona are all winnable games. It would not be shocking for us to be 5-1 at the midpoint. At this point, Oregon and UW are the only two games in the back half that look daunting. 6-0 Oregon vs 5-1 WSU is a probable high level TV matchup. Even if we lose to Oregon, we get ASU, Stanford and Cal after them....three more winnable games. 8-2 WSU facing Colorado might get some attention if the Sanders experiment doesn't implode. All this means that if Ward has truly improved, we aren't dropping in that list above and that bodes well for future discussions. We'll see.

Would be interesting to see comparable lists from other conferences. 8 in the Top 50 looks good, but agree that it’s concerning when you don’t have any programs in the top 10, and if you are doing things right you have one of your SoCal schools in the Top 5, and (hate to say it) UW in the top 15 for the size of those respective markets alone. My guess would be that it looked somewhat that way pre-Larry.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Would be interesting to see comparable lists from other conferences. 8 in the Top 50 looks good, but agree that it’s concerning when you don’t have any programs in the top 10, and if you are doing things right you have one of your SoCal schools in the Top 5, and (hate to say it) UW in the top 15 for the size of those respective markets alone. My guess would be that it looked somewhat that way pre-Larry.

Found this:



Just the Big 12 (minus OU and Texas plus new schools): average is 43.9

#13 TCU
#24 Ok State
#29 Baylor
#30 KSU
#38 BYU
#42 Iowa St
#51 West Virginia
#52 KU
#54 Texas Tech
#55 Cincinnati
#61 UCF
#78 Houston

Pac-12 average is 46.9 when you take out USC and UCLA. (42.3 with them). FWIW, Cougs would be #4 in the Pac-10 and #6 in the revamped Big 12.

Looking at other teams that we've talked about:

#64 Colorado State
#65 Tulane
#72 SMU
#80 Fresno State
#83 SDSU
not listed UNLV, Rice

It's interesting that many of us have been dismissive of Colorado State, but they are the highest ranked of the teams in the conversation. I was surprised that SDSU was the lowest listed team in the discussion. Not sure why UNLV and Rice weren't shown. Biggest takeaway is that all of the BS about tv markets and team values are based on perception and not reality.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Found this:

View embedded media

Just the Big 12 (minus OU and Texas plus new schools): average is 43.9

#13 TCU
#24 Ok State
#29 Baylor
#30 KSU
#38 BYU
#42 Iowa St
#51 West Virginia
#52 KU
#54 Texas Tech
#55 Cincinnati
#61 UCF
#78 Houston

Pac-12 average is 46.9 when you take out USC and UCLA. (42.3 with them). FWIW, Cougs would be #4 in the Pac-10 and #6 in the revamped Big 12.

Looking at other teams that we've talked about:

#64 Colorado State
#65 Tulane
#72 SMU
#80 Fresno State
#83 SDSU
not listed UNLV, Rice

It's interesting that many of us have been dismissive of Colorado State, but they are the highest ranked of the teams in the conversation. I was surprised that SDSU was the lowest listed team in the discussion. Not sure why UNLV and Rice weren't shown. Biggest takeaway is that all of the BS about tv markets and team values are based on perception and not reality.

Wow. Pretty crazy stats. Thanks for the research.

Like how WSU ranked above Cal, Stanford, OSU, Arizona and ASU. That is pretty impressive. And Colorado State being above our alleged new members. Maybe Quackkoff should read this article.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

The sky most definitely is falling on West coast college football, or at least, super conference football. Have any of you guys been to an SEC game? Games at Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State? Those atmospheres make Oregon. UW, and Utah feel like AAA baseball stadiums.

I think the P12 will survive for a few more years, maybe as many as 5 years, but beyond that, most of the programs out West are playing catch up in a race they have no chance of winning. Media dollars, booster participation in NIL, fan interest, and declining youth football numbers up and down the West coast; we're critically behind in every metric.

With all of that said, college football will still have a place out West, but most of the programs (especially WSU and OSU) had better get comfortable competing in a G5 type conference. Honestly, and I've said this before, that might end up being better for WSU. I'd rather see us compete in a conference with programs on par with our situation as opposed to playing 2-3 clicks above our heads financially in a league that's 2-3 time zones away. I'm sorry, but the thought of WSU playing in the B12 excites me as much as a trip to the dentist. I'd rather see us play Colorado State, Boise State, Air Force, Fresno, etc.

You and I have had a fair amount of discourse on this, but I'll echo and say I still think many are underestimating the effects it will have on the university not being in a P5.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

You and I have had a fair amount of discourse on this, but I'll echo and say I still think many are underestimating the effects it will have on the university not being in a P5.

Yeah, I kinda agree with you. I don't think it would hurt our research grants, but I think enrollment could take a hit.

 

[CougPatrol]

It won't be good if we're no longer in a P5 league, but we won't drop as far as people think. For starters, where are prospective students going to go in place of WSU? UW or Oregon will be the only P5 options in the region, and with all due respect to WSU, most of our applicants aren't getting into UW. So that leaves them with the directional WA State public schools (Eastern, Western, Central, etc.), and none of them will rival us in terms of campus quality and sports conference affiliation. The new hybrid MWC will be a lot bigger than the Big Sky.