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Pac-12 expansion candidates list

PeteTheChop

Hall Of Fame
May 25, 2005
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Apparently the Pac-12 presidents are meeting Monday in Seattle to discuss a number of issues.

One of those topics will likely be expansion, so here is an unofficial list of candidates mentioned by Jon Wilners from the San Jose paper as well some additional possibilities by a few posters here at CougZone:

Wilner
San Diego St.
SMU
Colorado State
Fresno State
UNLV
Tulane
Rice
Boise State
Gonzaga
New Mexico

CougZone
New Mexico State
Nevada-Reno
Wyoming
Montana State
Utah State
North Dakota State
Air Force
Hawaii
 
SDSU is the only school that makes any sense. The rest are reaches, some are major reaches.
 
Apparently the Pac-12 presidents are meeting Monday in Seattle to discuss a number of issues.

One of those topics will likely be expansion, so here is an unofficial list of candidates mentioned by Jon Wilners from the San Jose paper as well some additional possibilities by a few posters here at CougZone:

Wilner
San Diego St.
SMU
Colorado State
Fresno State
UNLV
Tulane
Rice
Boise State
Gonzaga
New Mexico

CougZone
New Mexico State
Nevada-Reno
Wyoming
Montana State
Utah State
North Dakota State
Air Force
Hawaii
No matter how you evaluate, either list is just a matter of determining which bad choice is not as bad as the others.
 
I’m gonna take a glass half full approach here. While everything that’s going on with CFB sucks, there’s a lot of great places to visit on this list whether you like the idea of these schools being in the P12 or not. We might not end up being a premier conference when the dust settles but I’ll sure as he’ll be taking fly fishing/Coug game trips to Wyoming/Bozeman or dudes trips to Vegas/SD for sun and golf. I know a lot of people hate BSU but Boise is an awesome city I wouldn’t mind visiting every other year.
 
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Apparently the Pac-12 presidents are meeting Monday in Seattle to discuss a number of issues.

One of those topics will likely be expansion, so here is an unofficial list of candidates mentioned by Jon Wilners from the San Jose paper as well some additional possibilities by a few posters here at CougZone:

Wilner
San Diego St.
SMU
Colorado State
Fresno State
UNLV
Tulane
Rice
Boise State
Gonzaga
New Mexico

CougZone
New Mexico State
Nevada-Reno
Wyoming
Montana State
Utah State
North Dakota State
Air Force
Hawaii
You know Pete, you are starting to piss me off.

First off, if you are going to quote someone (Wilner in this case), give us a link. I can't find any such thing after googling him.

Second, your lists are complete BS. No one here on WW is talking about Utah State, Wyoming, etc., or most of your two lists. You are pulling that shit out of your ass. Montana State? Really? Bring something to the table that has some dose of truth or reality.
 
I’m gonna take a glass half full approach here. While everything that’s going on with CFB sucks, there’s a lot of great places to visit on this list whether you like the idea of these schools being in the P12 or not. We might not end up being a premier conference when the dust settles but I’ll sure as he’ll be taking fly fishing/Coug game trips to Wyoming/Bozeman or dudes trips to Vegas/SD for sun and golf. I know a lot of people hate BSU but Boise is an awesome city I wouldn’t mind visiting every other year.
Gawd. SDSU and UNLV. It is such a goddam no brainer. Geezus. How the F do we get a new TV deal when they don't even know who the teams are going to be?
 
Apparently the Pac-12 presidents are meeting Monday in Seattle to discuss a number of issues.

One of those topics will likely be expansion, so here is an unofficial list of candidates mentioned by Jon Wilners from the San Jose paper as well some additional possibilities by a few posters here at CougZone:

Wilner
San Diego St.
SMU
Colorado State
Fresno State
UNLV
Tulane
Rice
Boise State
Gonzaga
New Mexico

CougZone
New Mexico State
Nevada-Reno
Wyoming
Montana State
Utah State
North Dakota State
Air Force
Hawaii
the cougzone list is DOA
 
I think it really comes down to 3 questions:

1.) are we comfortable with an odd number of teams? If so, SDSU is a slam dunk. If not, I don't see a single team there that I really like to go with SDSU. I see a pair for which I could make a case (SMU + Tulane), but not a single.
2.) do we want to expand east of Colorado (there are pros and cons; separate conversation)? If no, then forget SMU + Tulane. If yes, they are the obvious choices, and I would only want them as a pair.
3.) and finally, just how big do we want to get? We have 10 now, with the traitors gone. Is 11 a reasonable number, with SDSU? Or do we want 12? 14? That is also part of the equation, and wrapped up in that is whether we have divisions (so we can have a playoff game...some money there) or not.

None of the single choices to balance SDSU are super appealing, but on balance, I'd probably take Fresno over UNLV if we felt that an even number was necessary....though UNLV comes with some benefits. And if we decided at some point that we need 16 teams, both Fresno and UNLV would likely end up in the PAC, regardless.
 
I think it really comes down to 3 questions:

1.) are we comfortable with an odd number of teams? If so, SDSU is a slam dunk. If not, I don't see a single team there that I really like to go with SDSU. I see a pair for which I could make a case (SMU + Tulane), but not a single.
2.) do we want to expand east of Colorado (there are pros and cons; separate conversation)? If no, then forget SMU + Tulane. If yes, they are the obvious choices, and I would only want them as a pair.
3.) and finally, just how big do we want to get? We have 10 now, with the traitors gone. Is 11 a reasonable number, with SDSU? Or do we want 12? 14? That is also part of the equation, and wrapped up in that is whether we have divisions (so we can have a playoff game...some money there) or not.

None of the single choices to balance SDSU are super appealing, but on balance, I'd probably take Fresno over UNLV if we felt that an even number was necessary....though UNLV comes with some benefits. And if we decided at some point that we need 16 teams, both Fresno and UNLV would likely end up in the PAC, regardless.

Good points. I prefer a balanced set up overall but if we don't have divisions, it's less meaningful than it might have been in the past. I'm fine with taking SMU because if nothing else, it establishes us in Texas if we ever get in the position to be trying to add TCU, Texas Tech or Houston.
 
I think it really comes down to 3 questions:

1.) are we comfortable with an odd number of teams? If so, SDSU is a slam dunk. If not, I don't see a single team there that I really like to go with SDSU. I see a pair for which I could make a case (SMU + Tulane), but not a single.
2.) do we want to expand east of Colorado (there are pros and cons; separate conversation)? If no, then forget SMU + Tulane. If yes, they are the obvious choices, and I would only want them as a pair.
3.) and finally, just how big do we want to get? We have 10 now, with the traitors gone. Is 11 a reasonable number, with SDSU? Or do we want 12? 14? That is also part of the equation, and wrapped up in that is whether we have divisions (so we can have a playoff game...some money there) or not.

None of the single choices to balance SDSU are super appealing, but on balance, I'd probably take Fresno over UNLV if we felt that an even number was necessary....though UNLV comes with some benefits. And if we decided at some point that we need 16 teams, both Fresno and UNLV would likely end up in the PAC, regardless.
Nice post. I think we need 12. And no we should not expand east of Colorado. We need to just stay out west, wherever that takes us. I know I am getting to be a broken record, but let's get SDSU (a no brainer can't believe it hasn't happened with former Coug JD Wicker as AD down there). And UNLV. I have never been to Vegas and really have no desire to go there, but millions of other people do. Pac-10 needs to get off it's stodgy ass and do something. For WSU's part, I am sick of seeing smilin' Schulz and smilin' Chun's faces. They are making coin and don't give a F- about the train wreck that is coming.
 
Apparently the Pac-12 presidents are meeting Monday in Seattle to discuss a number of issues.

One of those topics will likely be expansion, so here is an unofficial list of candidates mentioned by Jon Wilners from the San Jose paper as well some additional possibilities by a few posters here at CougZone:

Wilner
San Diego St.
SMU
Colorado State
Fresno State
UNLV
Tulane
Rice
Boise State
Gonzaga
New Mexico

CougZone
New Mexico State
Nevada-Reno
Wyoming
Montana State
Utah State
North Dakota State
Air Force
Hawaii

It'll be SMU and SDSU. SMU provides Dallas and the Texas TV and football market.
 
It'll be SMU and SDSU. SMU provides Dallas and the Texas TV and football market.

The thing about SMU is that although it will suck for the rest of the conference, it would allow the Pac-12 to market an 11 am CDT kickoff where the fans would actually be interested in being in the stadium at that time.
 
It'll be SMU and SDSU. SMU provides Dallas and the Texas TV and football market.
Have you seen SMU’s viewer numbers? Or their stadium? They don’t provide market at all. And, at best they’re the #6 school in their own state for recruiting, so they don’t bring much there either.

They’re well outside of our footprint, in an area that has never taken the Pac-10/12 seriously. Picking them up isn’t going to bring out the old money waiting for their resurrection.

We’ve got mediocre programs with little upside already in our geography, we don’t need to go outside for one of those.
 
The last 6 posts make the difficulty here rather clear. More questions than answers. I'll add a couple of opinions & factoids:

1.) I'm old enough to remember the SW Conference before SMU's death penalty. SMU was not #6 in the Texas market then...if they are today...and had no trouble recruiting there. IMHO it has been their absence from a P5 conference that has put them there today. Put them in the PAC (or the B12, for that matter) and they will be back. Whether we want them is a complete other story, but as part of the PAC they would bring TV eyeballs and a bit more Texas recruiting appeal.

2.) UNLV is a poor choice if academic or research parity (with the related academic reputation) is desired. They are an outstanding choice if a sports destination (which, by the way, they would be for every Men''s and Women's sport we play) is the goal. And they are somewhere in between for the other factors. If we ever go to 16 teams, they will be one of them, and if we decide not to add anyone east of Colorado, then if we go to 14 they will be one of them. The only questions are whether we want to get that big, and when, and whether Fresno comes first (again, a separate discussion).

3.) For all the noise about SMU, I have not heard much on the board about Tulane. A high quality university in yet another good to visit town...possibly the only town that could compete with UNLV for visitor appeal. If we ever went to 16 teams and had both Las Vegas and New Orleans as destination cities, I'd be good with that. And I have no interest in SMU by themselves. They would need a more natural geographic rival, and picking up another university with a medical school in a prime tourist destination seems desirable...if and only if we move eastward.

4.) I think a major appeal of Fresno is that between FSU and SDSU (on top of Cal & Stanford & the rest of the PAC) they have a ton of alums in the LA basin. It looks pretty obvious to me that FSU would bring more added TV eyeballs in greater SoCal than UNLV. With SC and UCLA bailing out, we'll need to shore up the TV market in our largest market area, and I think FSU would do more of that than UNLV. Yes, UNLV brings the Vegas media market, which is not tiny....certainly larger than Fresno's home area. But FSU has to have a lot more alums in SoCal than UNLV...at least based on my personal experience...so this is not as easy an analysis as it appears on the surface.

5.) Finally, for me at least, the major wild card is Air Force. If we go to the even number of 14 in the west or 16 including SMU/Tulane, we still need one more team to go with SDSU, FSU and UNLV. San Jose is a solid school but brings little in a media market that already has Cal and Stanford. Air Force has a number of unique aspects (including one of the largest interested fan bases in the US, which again means eyeballs), and nobody can question their academic standing, regardless of their research focus. We could probably get game opening flyovers for free (insert smiling emoji here)! As the added team to go with SDSU, UNLV & FSU, Air Force strikes me as the most appealing.
 
The last 6 posts make the difficulty here rather clear. More questions than answers. I'll add a couple of opinions & factoids:

1.) I'm old enough to remember the SW Conference before SMU's death penalty. SMU was not #6 in the Texas market then...if they are today...and had no trouble recruiting there. IMHO it has been their absence from a P5 conference that has put them there today. Put them in the PAC (or the B12, for that matter) and they will be back. Whether we want them is a complete other story, but as part of the PAC they would bring TV eyeballs and a bit more Texas recruiting appeal.

2.) UNLV is a poor choice if academic or research parity (with the related academic reputation) is desired. They are an outstanding choice if a sports destination (which, by the way, they would be for every Men''s and Women's sport we play) is the goal. And they are somewhere in between for the other factors. If we ever go to 16 teams, they will be one of them, and if we decide not to add anyone east of Colorado, then if we go to 14 they will be one of them. The only questions are whether we want to get that big, and when, and whether Fresno comes first (again, a separate discussion).

3.) For all the noise about SMU, I have not heard much on the board about Tulane. A high quality university in yet another good to visit town...possibly the only town that could compete with UNLV for visitor appeal. If we ever went to 16 teams and had both Las Vegas and New Orleans as destination cities, I'd be good with that. And I have no interest in SMU by themselves. They would need a more natural geographic rival, and picking up another university with a medical school in a prime tourist destination seems desirable...if and only if we move eastward.

4.) I think a major appeal of Fresno is that between FSU and SDSU (on top of Cal & Stanford & the rest of the PAC) they have a ton of alums in the LA basin. It looks pretty obvious to me that FSU would bring more added TV eyeballs in greater SoCal than UNLV. With SC and UCLA bailing out, we'll need to shore up the TV market in our largest market area, and I think FSU would do more of that than UNLV. Yes, UNLV brings the Vegas media market, which is not tiny....certainly larger than Fresno's home area. But FSU has to have a lot more alums in SoCal than UNLV...at least based on my personal experience...so this is not as easy an analysis as it appears on the surface.

5.) Finally, for me at least, the major wild card is Air Force. If we go to the even number of 14 in the west or 16 including SMU/Tulane, we still need one more team to go with SDSU, FSU and UNLV. San Jose is a solid school but brings little in a media market that already has Cal and Stanford. Air Force has a number of unique aspects (including one of the largest interested fan bases in the US, which again means eyeballs), and nobody can question their academic standing, regardless of their research focus. We could probably get game opening flyovers for free (insert smiling emoji here)! As the added team to go with SDSU, UNLV & FSU, Air Force strikes me as the most appealing.

I could live with SDSU, UNLV, FSU and Air Force.
 
I could live with SDSU, UNLV, FSU and Air Force.
I’m not excited about that group (or any other one that’s feasible), but it does consolidate most of the viable options within the western footprint.

I’d entertain arguments for Colorado State over Air Force, but I don’t think either of them brings enough to be worth fighting over.

Air Force also has the disadvantage of being an oddball system that requires special practice and prep, which may be a distraction. It shouldn’t be that big a deal for P5 talent, but….you all saw the Cheez-it bowl.
 
Should note that the numbers above are in millions....not thousands. Your point it still valid. Of course, in today's environment, how important are research rankings when it comes to athletic affiliation?
Well that is a good question. Remember when, under Floyd I believe, when we aspired for AAU status? Which is inhabited by the mutts, Whoregon, Arizona, Stanford, Cal, Colorado and Utah, not to mention the two traitors. Well, we never got there.

So yeah, are we going to cling to this "Tier 1 Research" mantra, or get real? The Pac-12 is a sports conference, not an academic egghead convention. Get your heads out of your asses or it's going to be the Pac-2.

https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/our-members
 
Well that is a good question. Remember when, under Floyd I believe, when we aspired for AAU status? Which is inhabited by the mutts, Whoregon, Arizona, Stanford, Cal, Colorado and Utah, not to mention the two traitors. Well, we never got there.

So yeah, are we going to cling to this "Tier 1 Research" mantra, or get real? The Pac-12 is a sports conference, not an academic egghead convention. Get your heads out of your asses or it's going to be the Pac-2.

https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/our-members

You should call the presidents and tell them cause they don’t know.
 
You know Pete, you are starting to piss me off.

First off, if you are going to quote someone (Wilner in this case), give us a link. I can't find any such thing after googling him.

Second, your lists are complete BS. No one here on WW is talking about Utah State, Wyoming, etc., or most of your two lists. You are pulling that shit out of your ass. Montana State? Really? Bring something to the table that has some dose of truth or reality.

Hey Loyal1 buddy

Here's a screen shot of Wilner's candidates from his April 28th article in the San Jose paper (didn't provide a link because it was behind a pay wall).

Screenshot-2023-05-15-at-5-24-40-PM.png


The CougZone list comes from the thread linked here: What is Kirk Schulz's plan if the Pac-12 starts to unravel?

You can work your way down the thread and Biggs did research to provide a comprehensive list of academically sound candidates: Hawaii, UC-Davis, Nevada-Reno, UNLV, Montana State, New Mexico, Colorado State, Utah State, North Dakota State, Air Force, Montana and UTEP — and advocates taking them all. I can't take credit for Biggsy's work (You responded to the post, but may have overlooked it later).

Anyway, didn't mean to piss you off
 
Hey Loyal1 buddy

Here's a screen shot of Wilner's candidates from his April 28th article in the San Jose paper (didn't provide a link because it was behind a pay wall).

Screenshot-2023-05-15-at-5-24-40-PM.png


The CougZone list comes from the thread linked here: What is Kirk Schulz's plan if the Pac-12 starts to unravel?

You can work your way down the thread and Biggs did research to provide a comprehensive list of academically sound candidates: Hawaii, UC-Davis, Nevada-Reno, UNLV, Montana State, New Mexico, Colorado State, Utah State, North Dakota State, Air Force, Montana and UTEP — and advocates taking them all. I can't take credit for Biggsy's work (You responded to the post, but may have overlooked it later).

Anyway, didn't mean to piss you off
No worries bud. Thanks for the excerpt. I just don't buy SMU. I mean WTF? So what that they are in Dallas? Who down there gives a rat's ass about the PAC? Colorado State I could deal with - especially if that keeps Colorado in the fold.
 
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