Your first question implies that he was a contributing member of the program his first time.
If he ever returns to WSU - which I doubt - it will not be (and should not be) in any on-the-field capacity.
Paul Wulff's hypothetical return to WSU?
- Thread starter PeteTheChop
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If he ever returns to WSU - which I doubt - it will not be (and should not be) in any on-the-field capacity.
Fetching coffee for the 49ers coaches and holding an OC spot (for a really bad O) for a single season is not experience that is going to turn him into a head coach.
Seriously, if he wants to be HC again, he should be looking at high schools.
Not gutsy. Hand picking a head football coach without a search committee's input. Giving the guy the must secure contract ever offered to a new Pac-12 coach. To a guy who had overstayed his welcome at his last job, to the point they trumped up a fiction to fire him "for cause." To a guy that other major schools were not "hot on" because of personality concerns.
Yep, that is smart, not gutsy.
Then you go all in on football, build luxury boxes for big rollers we don't have yet, and a $80 million on a FOB for a coach and a program that hasn't won in a decade. And compound it by being quoting Mike Lude, the most polarizing AD in the conference's history that the football tide floats all ships.
Yep smart, no balls needed there.
Your post is more a "I don't care for either Moos or Leach" than it is a coherent and true statement on what has/is going on with Texas Tech and WSU.
Without Moos,the cougs may have been in excluded from the big money. The experience he brought to bear in negotiations made the current situation a most viable one both financially and on the field. As for Wulff,he was given every chance and he failed miserably. I was one of the posters,early on, who advocated giving him a good shot at success. he was given that and was not up to the task. He will never again be the head at any major University, much less at WSU.
Seriously, if you don't believe that there are people on this website that hate Paul Wulff with a passion, you have not been paying attention. If you look through some of the comments made about him over the past three years, it's obvious that some people lose perspective when it comes to their hate of the man. You know what? That's ok because it's a free country and since nobody has been out cutting his tires or really trying to hurt him, it's ok to hate the guy if you want.
Still, I've always said that the hate for him is disproportionate to the situation. Our football team sucked for a few years and he was obviously not up to the task of being a head coach. He was likely never going to have any real success in Pullman. He needed to go. That doesn't justify some of the comments and hate directed his way around here. Even though people are allowed to have their opinions, I'd prefer that our fans took the high road and simply said, "Goodbye and good riddance" rather than openly hoping for his failures in everything.
As for whether or not I'd like to see Paul Wulff at WSU in an administrative position, the answer is not in any foreseeable future. Because of the hate that so many people have for the man, it would be divisive to have him in any position remotely related to football. On top of that, even though I think we need to forgive and forget, the man burned bridges on the way out and he would have to find a way to show that he deserves the honor of being part of the university again. Unfortunately, I don't think Paul Wulff has the strength of character to admit that he acted like a child on the way out the door. So, even though I think we need to show some character and class ourselves, that doesn't mean that we should financially reward someone who hasn't earned it.
I think you misread what really occurred. I do agree that people have gone overboard in the way they talked about Wulff. But, it is not out of hatred for Wulff. It is the hatred of the going overboard by certain people in defending Wulff. This caused things to escalate on both sides of the debate. It was not one sided.
A lot of those same people defending all things Wulff will play two sides of the fence as well. He needed to go, "BUT..." Plus, they don't seem to mind trashing either Doba or Leach.
Wulff wasn't an epic failure because he coached at his old school (which he changed to EWU shortly after being fired). He was and is just a very bad football coach, your circular reasoning notwithstanding.
I agree with 1990 and Yaki. Just because the "debate" got heated, doesn't mean anyone hates anyone. While I can't read anyone's hearts, I've yet to see or read anything that would remotely be construed as hate. I just don't see it. Pissed that a coach took us into such a dark period? Hell yeah. Wishing him ill? Nope. That's just drama, IMHO.
PW also added an unnecessary attitude of blame against Doba that was not only immature but way out of line. It doesn't even matter if it was even partially deserved or not, you don't blame your shortcomings on the guy before you....not in public anyway. And certainly not Doba, who himself had his own off- and on the field issues....PW was the classic example of not being ready for D1 football in any public capacity....
If cougs win 9 this year, that is a tremendous achievement for the whole team....That would mean not only did they sweep the OOC slate (including winning in "Joisey") but winning the majority of that tough middle stretch AND beating the mutts. That would be an insane season. Epic
Some of the people who were wrong about him as a football coach created this, "well, the people who don't like his coaching, PERSONALLY HATE Paul Wulff" narrative, because then, even if they "know" football, "well, they're bad people full of irrational hate, so who cares how much more football they know..."
It's just not true, though. He was a terrible coach, and that's what people drew opinions from- about his coaching.
Whatever people. You all love the guy and just wish that he could have been better. You can't wait to buy him a beer at the bar and talk about how things went wrong. You hope that he has great success with the national team that leads to a new gig and you're disappointed that he got fired after one year as an OC before he got a chance to make real changes. You secretly hope that he and WSU mend ways and he'll start coming to WSU events again.
Ummm.......actually, most people here feel exactly 180 degrees from that. You guys need to quit bullshitting yourselves and just admit that you hate the guy and never want him to experience any success for fear that WSU might consider hiring the guy again. You hope that he never steps on the campus again.....ever, in any capacity. I get that because frankly, I don't want to see him on our sidelines with anything more significant than a guest pass around his neck. He wasn't a particularly likeable guy who was arrogant and tended to deflect blame onto other people. He wasn't a good head coach at the Pac-12 level and was leader of the worst teams in school history. It's pretty easy to understand why so many people hated him.
I could be wrong and people have been making stuff up for the past few years in an attempt to get on Ed's nerves.
Ummm.......actually, most people here feel exactly 180 degrees from that. You guys need to quit bullshitting yourselves and just admit that you hate the guy and never want him to experience any success for fear that WSU might consider hiring the guy again. You hope that he never steps on the campus again.....ever, in any capacity. I get that because frankly, I don't want to see him on our sidelines with anything more significant than a guest pass around his neck. He wasn't a particularly likeable guy who was arrogant and tended to deflect blame onto other people. He wasn't a good head coach at the Pac-12 level and was leader of the worst teams in school history. It's pretty easy to understand why so many people hated him.
I could be wrong and people have been making stuff up for the past few years in an attempt to get on Ed's nerves.
So, you believe this is all about Ed? Are you his girlfriend? Brother? Get the hell over it. No one hates Wulff.
This shows you just have ZERO idea what is/has been going on here. You think you do, but you do not. What have I written here on several occasions? People seldom bring up Wulff when Ed is not here. On few occasions that someone references Wulff, that is all it is.
Again, yes people exaggerate about Wulff when they are in an argument with Ed and frankly you. If anyone is deep in bullshit, look in the mirror Flat.
If WSU wins 8-9 games this season, Mike Leach deserves a massive contract extension. Fans would be doing cartwheels down Stadium Way and we'd all be planning our postseason bowl game travel itinerary.
I suppose a few irritants on here would attempt to stir the pot with some "yea, but" posts, but they would be snuffed out faster than a Mike Leach running play (sorry, I had to).
I suppose a few irritants on here would attempt to stir the pot with some "yea, but" posts, but they would be snuffed out faster than a Mike Leach running play (sorry, I had to).
Do you even know how to read? A half dozen people in this thread have said that their negativity towards Wulff is in response to people defending Wulff. They are the ones saying that it's about Ed and people like him. The revisionist history showing up here is pretty fascinating. One thing I'll say is that I respect Biggs more after reading this thread. He hates Wulff and he isn't on here pretending that he doesn't. I respect that. I'm not sure if I can say the same about people who have spent five years trashing a man and then pretending like they haven't been. I don't care that people don't like Wulff. I don't care if they hate him. I'd rather that they be honest with themselves about it. Of course, maybe the good thing about this thread is that it might be opening up some eyes that Wulff is a human being even if he was a bad coach.
Thanks for proving my point and escalating this once again. It is posts like yours that pisses people off and then the thread goes down that slippery slope and someone will say something about Wulff. It isn't Wulff hate. It is frustration about people like you that something negative about Wulff is written.
Wow, Flat. Look at what you wrote. Aside from the "never want him to experience any success…" thing (which I could give a flip if he finds success or not.) but everything else? OK. So we/I don't want him coaching at WSU. So we think he was a horrible coach. That is what you hang your hat on, regarding us "hating" CPW? Think of all the people in your work place, Flat. Some you probably really like. Others you probably don't give a rip about. They probably do a horrible job. Do you "hate" them? Just because CPW was a horrible coach, just because he is polarizing among WSU alumni, doesn't mean we all hate him, wish him ill, etc. etc. Just like that person at your work that sucks beyond sucks, we just want him to go away. That doesn't equate to hate.
Don't fall into the extremes thing that boards tend to foster. "It's either one extreme or the other. NO IN-BETWEEN!" Don't like a guy? That means we all hate him?! I don't like Fishie. Never met him. I think I can speak for him. He doesn't like me. I don't hate fishie, flat. Never met him so how can I hate him?! I can't believe I'm talking to grown men, possibly a few women, about projecting feelings on someone when you don't know them. You've never met anyone here, yet you are positive you know someones heart. You're acting like a junior higher telling everyone that so-and-so hates that person… lets all gather at locker 296 to talk about it!
Maybe it's about the definition of "hate" where you are zigging, and some of us are zagging… I don't know but just because we "trash" a guy, doesn't mean we hate him. I've yet to "trash" him personally but plenty of people trash others… That, IMHO, isn't the definition of "hate". I've made fun of the Cardashian (Whatever spelling, I really don't care) family more times than I can count. I don't hate them. I've trashed some pretty bad bands or singers… Don't hate them.
So maybe we need to back up a bit to define this because I still see a serious disconnect to your point.
Do I hate Coach T? As a person, no. As a coach? He's awful. Simply the worst coach in BCS history. He can't coach, can't recruit, can't hire assistants, was condescending to fans about their football knowledge (fans were right) and the only proof I need is that as a former BCS head man he is out of college football altogether only a few years later. Seriously, a former BCS head coach and as recently an OC can't find a job coaching BCS football. That's how bad he is.
I'd say he should be selling insurance, but would you trust him as your insurance agent?
Nuance is lost on many people 95. Ed, Sponge, Chinook and El frustrate the hell out of me. Do I hate them, no. I assume they are all good sons, husbands, fathers, friends, etc. This is athletics we are discussing, not life and death. Do I care for Wulff? No. I will admit that every day. Hate him? No.
Asinine. Calling a terrible coach a terrible coach (because he was a terrible coach) isn't "trashing the man", its honesty. And this idea you've crafted that people just can't stand Wulffs stupid loser face and hope all the bad things happen to him is fiction.
My opinions of CPW are very clear. My opinions of Paul Wulff, the man? Don't know him, not that concerned. Sorry to disappoint.
Or even making fun of… The picking his nose on TV was the funniest thing ever… once he left. COMPLETELY embarrassing at the time. Had a friend in the mid-west actually call me, just to make fun of WSU on that one. Awesome…
Or the way he handled himself on the way out… begged for "making fun of". While I haven't made fun of him, I HAVE seen plenty of posts that do. I still don't see how that translates into hate. I HAVE found, and posted, plenty of statistics that show how bad he was as a coach. Still don't hate him.
IMHO, "hate" means truly having a visceral reaction of wanting to do bodily harm to someone. Can't stand the image of him, can't stand the persons voice, or anything that person stands for and all you want to do, is see if you can mash his face into a bloody pulp… and then not care. That's hate. I only hate one person and he lives in TX, thank the Lord. And I don't live in TX. And there's plenty of justification for my personal belief regarding this one person in all the world, that I hate. Thats' my own personal cross to bear, I guess. But just so you know, flat and everyone else that thinks all of our posts translate into "hate"… it ain't CPW that I hate.
Like I said, if there's a bright side to a thread like this, it makes people step back a little and re-evaluate how they look at things (myself included)
What? Now you're telling me/us that we have, or need to, re-evaluate our view on CPW? I don't think anyone has stepped back from anything, nor should they. It's you that has this odd habit of telling others how they feel… based on very, very little.
I'm only posting to try and be crystal clear. I'm guessing that's the same for some of the other guys. You will not misplace my emotions, or lack-there-of, and then tell people it's "hate". "Hate" is one of the strongest words/emotions. And I will only speak for me… you will not tell people I "hate" when I don't. I would hope you would respect me and others before you libel us, without any knowledge.
You truly don't get what 1990 said, do you...
I'm not saying that you need to re-evaluate your view on Paul Wulff himself. If you think he's a crappy coach......feel free to think that. The evidence doesn't suggest that he's a good coach. If you think he's the worst coach ever.....you are entitled to your viewpoint. I'm not suggesting that. When I say re-evaluate, I'm saying that maybe spending 200 posts on trying to prove that he's the worst isn't worth the effort. Maybe a post saying that he was selected as the OC of the US National team is greeted by silence or maybe even a "hope we do well" comment rather than snide comments. The "re-evaluation" is more about what's worth talking about and bringing back up. Of course, it's a free world, and if you feel that your feelings for Wulff (and others on this board) are best demonstrated with pictures of Wulff picking his nose and other comments...feel free. Just know that if you were to go over to Brand X in the past couple years and ask them what the people on this board feel about Wulff, they'd say that you hate his guts. That's the perception.
Of course, I need to remember that half the time, someone making a negative comment is just doing it to be contrary and get a rise out of me. Don't tell anyone, but there might have been times that I've argued just for the sake of arguing. That is the beauty of the internet.
Of course, I need to remember that half the time, someone making a negative comment is just doing it to be contrary and get a rise out of me. Don't tell anyone, but there might have been times that I've argued just for the sake of arguing. That is the beauty of the internet.
95...I am in your camp as I don't know what is in people's hearts. It could be the venom after three years being gone just masquerades itself as hate. In either case, whether it is real or perceived, it is not my call. What is interesting that it still gets the most hits, the most views and we are three years removed from the man leaving.
In your last original topic you wrote about the offense and how it was below where you thought it would be. Someone wrote now we have our offensive line in place that will change. I simply wrote there easily could be other explanations as well that weren't related to the oline, and pointed to the fact maybe the starting line in 2012 wasn't as devoid of talent. However to suggest otherwise is blasphemy.
If people don't like what I say, or disagree with it, it seems simple don't participate. When I say Bill Doba didn't recruit well at all, and he failed to bring in DT's it is an opinion. Yes, I love Bill Doba. I wish he never took the job to be honest. I don't know Paul Wulff, never met him, and I wish he never took the job. I wish Mike Price would have stayed at WSU, they would have valued the program more than they valued 1.8 million dollars per year.
I won't hide my anger and it goes to Rawlins first, then Sterk. If blame has to placed on the coaches then it goes to Doba and Wulff.
Now we have Leach. Great resume. Challenges are clearly different than what he encountered at Tech. Saying things have gone as planned or closely as planned with two 3-9 seasons is a not true or accurate. To say that there hasn't been some measureable improvement in areas is not accurate. To say there hasn't been set backs in areas that they could not afford setbacks is not accurate either.
But if someone said to fire Leach right now, I think it is crazy talk. To say if he goes 5-7 we should buy out his contract, that is crazy as well. He should be given a full five years. I think they will be 5-7 this year. I think they will go bowling in 2016.
1) The suites are sold out for years to come.
2) You would prefer we didn't build new facilities to attract better talent? That doesn't make the least bit of sense.
Did Moos steal your girlfriend or something?
Since I'm "someone", let me address this... So, in your eyes- to agree with the coach, and not you- when his case is far stronger from an evidence POV, and his explanation is better than what you offer- is calling someone for BLASPHEMY? Jesus, man... shrink the head just a wee bit. Yeeps...
Also, my main point was that we should be better running the ball now because of who we have- and you don't seem to contest that this OL is BETTER than 2012- just that because Leach is the coach, better players won't matter, because look what he did with worse players...
Sorry, given the conviction with which you pursue your wrong hypotheses on occasion, I'm not going to avoid bursting your bubble- if people just didn't participate when they disagreed with you on this board, you'd have 3.5 posters.
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Actually here is the problem. Ummm, it is not blasphemy to disagree with me, but rather it is blasphemy to question whether Leach's offense might need to be tweaked and it isn't about the offensive line.
You are correct, I do not think 2015 line is worse than 2012's line. And in terms of bodies, cause that is all I have seen, the count seems to be better. But I am not sure I would make the case 2015 starters are far better than 2012. And I am guessing there is a huge difference how we each see talent.
Be that as it may, I get your argument. You may be correct. The lack of offensive production in comparison to history and compared to the rest of our competition may be a single function of the lack of development up front until know, and once we have an Oline that Leach can trust the rest of the offense will be more efficient because we can run from the line of scrimmage.
But I do have to ask, what are your point per game expectations, and if we meet those expectations why will we meet them? And if we don't, what will be the reason?
You know Ed, I had a whole outline, point by point response. Analyzing why the threads go bad, agreeing with you here, disagreeing with you there. It honestly boils down to this… Who has to have the last word? The minority that defends CPW or the majority that isn't "PC" enough to care about CPW… Thats really the precipice of this ledge we dance on all the time. Doesn't even matter what side your on, if you're tired of them, just stop posting on them. Not tired of them? Let the games continue.
It'll always get heated on this site, and I like that. A little more "Wild West". Some like it, some don't. Whatever.
What's funnier is that you(Nanookie) think this is an 8-9 win team....and even funnier than that is that is what you have said about '97 and some of Price's other successful yrs.
Doesn't that depend on the PAC 12 Average of Points Allowed by the Defense? So isn't that a year by year evaluation that could change, up or down, each year?
