Adjustment done. Leach now eligible for HOF...

[M-I-Coug]

Former WSU coach Mike Leach eligible for Hall of Fame under new criteria​

CREG STEPHENSON
May 29, 2025
Tribune News Service

The College Football Hall of Fame has adjusted its eligibility requirements for coaches to be inducted, which is good news for supporters of former Washington State coaches Mike Leach and Jackie Sherrill.

The winning percentage requirement has dropped from 60% to 59.5%, meaning Leach and Sherrill, among others, are now eligible. Sherrill had a career winning percentage of 59.89, while Leach’s was 59.62.

“The NFF is committed to preserving the integrity and prestige of the NFF College Football Hall of Fame,” NFF President & CEO Steve Hatchell said. “This adjustment reflects thoughtful dialogue with leaders across the sport and allows us to better recognize coaches whose contributions to the game extend beyond a narrow statistical threshold.”

Other eligibility requirements remain unchanged. In order to be considered, candidates must have coached for at least 10 years and in at least 100 games, and be retired for at least three years (the latter requirement is waived for retired coaches who are at least 70 and active coaches who are at least 75).

But the winning percentage requirement was especially a sticking point when it came to Leach, who died suddenly at age 61 in 2022 while coaching at Mississippi State. Known as an innovator whose “Air Raid” attack influenced a generation of coaches, he won 158 games in 23 seasons at Texas Tech, WSU and Mississippi State.

Sherrill — an Alabama graduate who played fullback and guard for the Crimson Tide under Paul “Bear” Bryant in the mid-1960s — also fell just short of the 60% threshold in 26 seasons at Washington State, Pittsburgh, Texas A&M and Mississippi State. Still living at age 81, he had a career record of 180-120-4.

Still active, but also now eligible or near eligible for induction under the new criteria are Iowa’s Kirk Ferentz (59.83) and West Virginia’s Rich Rodriguez (59.01). Rodriguez spent three seasons (2022-24) at Jacksonville State.

CREG STEPHENSON.

 

[Observer11]

Maybe just ditch the statistical milestone altogether.

What Leach did at Tech and WSU was mammoth.

Kind of a coincidence both Leach and Sherrill had the WSU/MSU combo on their resumes.

 

[425cougfan]

Pretty remarkable that they seem to have done this primarily just due to Leach. Bodes well for his election and shows how widely recognized his impact was.

 

[Cougsocal]

Maybe just ditch the statistical milestone altogether.

What Leach did at Tech and WSU was mammoth.

Kind of a coincidence both Leach and Sherrill had the WSU/MSU combo on their resumes.

"Mammoth" is too strong a word. It does not compare to two conference championships and Rose Bowls in 5 years after a 67 year absence. That said, he isn't deserving based on championships, win and losses, but because he was a amazing innovator responsible in large part to how the game is played today. He and Jack Elway should be in the HOF as a pair bring, the "spread" and "air raid" to the college game.

 

[Observer11]

"Mammoth" is too strong a word. It does not compare to two conference championships and Rose Bowls in 5 years after a 67 year absence. That said, he isn't deserving based on championships, win and losses, but because he was a amazing innovator responsible in large part to how the game is played today. He and Jack Elway should be in the HOF as a pair bring, the "spread" and "air raid" to the college game.

Price killed his Destiny for the Hall of Fame one night in Florida.

 

[Coug90]

Maybe just ditch the statistical milestone altogether.

What Leach did at Tech and WSU was mammoth.

Kind of a coincidence both Leach and Sherrill had the WSU/MSU combo on their resumes.

No kidding…so some schmuck that had a 61% winning percentage at Notre Dame is eligible for the HOF where a guy who took over outgunned and abysmal programs at Tech and WSU and won 59.5% of his games isn’t? Somehow this is still only about the 47th stupidest thing about the NCAA these days.

 

[mikalalas]

Price killed his Destiny for the Hall of Fame one night in Florida.

Price is, was awesome, don't get me wrong, but for the first 10 years of Price's coaching Tenure, Price was ONLY having one 7,8,9 win season out of 2,3 bad ONLY 2,3,4 win 3-8 seasons.

Yes Price got WSU to a Rosebowl in 97, and again in 2001-2002, but those were OUTLIERS, exceptions.

Also Price's lifetime winning percentage was a LOT LOWER then Leach's.

And the way Price left WSU, and his bar stripper escapade also sorta semi tarnishes his achievement.

Also Price's record at a Trash Utep was BAD.


Leach went to a bowl game almost EVERY year at WSU, except for 1,2 3-9 years(Which was a hell lot better then Price's SLEW, LOTS of 3-8 seasons)

Leach had a 10-2, 11-1 season at Texas Tech, and a 11-2 season at WSU. IF IF IF those seasons had been 10-2, 11-1 seasons, back in 1997, 2001-2002, they would have been ROSEBOWL SEASONS, and Leach would have gone to the ROSEBOWL.

Also in Leach's 11-2 season, the ABSOLUTELY BLOWN, TARGETING PENALTY TOTALLY PREVENTED WSU BEATING THE DIRTY REFS, DIRTY USC, DIRTY TARGETING USC PLAYER.

THAT GAME WAS A WIN, NOT A LOSS. THUS LEACH WAS, SHOULD HAVE BEEN 12-1 IF NOT FOR THAT SCANDAL.

Also if 4 feet of snow hadn't hit AC, killing the Air Raid, WSU, Leach would have won that game.

The 4 feet deep snow should have canceled the AC moved it to another day, and the USC game should have been protested, negated, changed to a tie, declared not to be a loss, etc.

Both the AC, and CORRUPT, CHEATER PAC 12, USC game was absolute totally BULL SHIT.

Without that BULL SHIT WSU, LEACH would have have at least been 12-1, or 13-0 and at least gone to a Rosebowl, or the PLAY OFFS, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

Leach was CHEATED out of that.

Because of that 2018 GETS A POSITIVE ASTERISK, and Leach gets credit for a ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT SEASON at WSU.

So Leach had 1,2 ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT seasons at Texas Tech, and 1 ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT season at WSU for 2,3 total ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT seasons in his career.

Leach also had 10 straight bowl games at Texas Tech, and between Texas Tech and WSU Leach had 16 bowl games in 18 years.

And 4 of Leach's 5 bowl games at WSU were 9-4 seasons which is just 1 win short of Price's 2 straight 10 win seasons in 2000's, and Leach had 4 9-4 seasons, to Price's 2 10 win seasons.

No matter how you slice it, break it down, Leach was more consistently better, more consistent at WSU over the long term at WSU then Price was, and if consider Texas Tech, MSU, Alabama, Utep, etc, in addition to WSU, and consider their whole careers, Leach is consistently better then Price.

There is a reason why Leach will be in the College Hall of Fame, and Price won't be, and that's because Leach is the better coach, with the better results, with more wins, with more bowls, etc, then Mike Price.

That said, Mike Price was AWESOME at WSU also.

 

[Coug90]

Price is, was awesome, don't get me wrong, but for the first 10 years of Price's coaching Tenure, Price was ONLY having one 7,8,9 win season out of 2,3 bad ONLY 2,3,4 win 3-8 seasons.

Yes Price got WSU to a Rosebowl in 97, and again in 2001-2002, but those were OUTLIERS, exceptions.

Also Price's lifetime winning percentage was a LOT LOWER then Leach's.

And the way Price left WSU, and his bar stripper escapade also sorta semi tarnishes his achievement.

Also Price's record at a Trash Utep was BAD.


Leach went to a bowl game almost EVERY year at WSU, except for 1,2 3-9 years(Which was a hell lot better then Price's SLEW, LOTS of 3-8 seasons)

Leach had a 10-2, 11-1 season at Texas Tech, and a 11-2 season at WSU. IF IF IF those seasons had been 10-2, 11-1 seasons, back in 1997, 2001-2002, they would have been ROSEBOWL SEASONS, and Leach would have gone to the ROSEBOWL.

Also in Leach's 11-2 season, the ABSOLUTELY BLOWN, TARGETING PENALTY TOTALLY PREVENTED WSU BEATING THE DIRTY REFS, DIRTY USC, DIRTY TARGETING USC PLAYER.

THAT GAME WAS A WIN, NOT A LOSS. THUS LEACH WAS, SHOULD HAVE BEEN 12-1 IF NOT FOR THAT SCANDAL.

Also if 4 feet of snow hadn't hit AC, killing the Air Raid, WSU, Leach would have won that game.

The 4 feet deep snow should have canceled the AC moved it to another day, and the USC game should have been protested, negated, changed to a tie, declared not to be a loss, etc.

Both the AC, and CORRUPT, CHEATER PAC 12, USC game was absolute totally BULL SHIT.

Without that BULL SHIT WSU, LEACH would have have at least been 12-1, or 13-0 and at least gone to a Rosebowl, or the PLAY OFFS, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

Leach was CHEATED out of that.

Because of that 2018 GETS A POSITIVE ASTERISK, and Leach gets credit for a ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT SEASON at WSU.

So Leach had 1,2 ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT seasons at Texas Tech, and 1 ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT season at WSU for 2,3 total ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT seasons in his career.

Leach also had 10 straight bowl games at Texas Tech, and between Texas Tech and WSU Leach had 16 bowl games in 18 years.

And 4 of Leach's 5 bowl games at WSU were 9-4 seasons which is just 1 win short of Price's 2 straight 10 win seasons in 2000's, and Leach had 4 9-4 seasons, to Price's 2 10 win seasons.

No matter how you slice it, break it down, Leach was more consistently better, more consistent at WSU over the long term at WSU then Price was, and if consider Texas Tech, MSU, Alabama, Utep, etc, in addition to WSU, and consider their whole careers, Leach is consistently better then Price.

There is a reason why Leach will be in the College Hall of Fame, and Price won't be, and that's because Leach is the better coach, with the better results, with more wins, with more bowls, etc, then Mike Price.

That said, Mike Price was AWESOME at WSU also.

I disagree that Price’s image tarnished from his move to Bama or what happened once he got there. Sterk gets a lions share of the blame for not capitalizing on Price’s success and investing in the program including extending him. The Bama boosters got him wasted and threw the stripper in the car with him. He had no clue where he was. The only one I know who could be in that state while riding a stripper and yelling “Roll Tide” is Loyal, but allegedly he was not involved.

 

[95coug]

Price is, was awesome, don't get me wrong, but for the first 10 years of Price's coaching Tenure, Price was ONLY having one 7,8,9 win season out of 2,3 bad ONLY 2,3,4 win 3-8 seasons.

Yes Price got WSU to a Rosebowl in 97, and again in 2001-2002, but those were OUTLIERS, exceptions.

Also Price's lifetime winning percentage was a LOT LOWER then Leach's.

And the way Price left WSU, and his bar stripper escapade also sorta semi tarnishes his achievement.

Also Price's record at a Trash Utep was BAD.


Leach went to a bowl game almost EVERY year at WSU, except for 1,2 3-9 years(Which was a hell lot better then Price's SLEW, LOTS of 3-8 seasons)

Leach had a 10-2, 11-1 season at Texas Tech, and a 11-2 season at WSU. IF IF IF those seasons had been 10-2, 11-1 seasons, back in 1997, 2001-2002, they would have been ROSEBOWL SEASONS, and Leach would have gone to the ROSEBOWL.

Also in Leach's 11-2 season, the ABSOLUTELY BLOWN, TARGETING PENALTY TOTALLY PREVENTED WSU BEATING THE DIRTY REFS, DIRTY USC, DIRTY TARGETING USC PLAYER.

THAT GAME WAS A WIN, NOT A LOSS. THUS LEACH WAS, SHOULD HAVE BEEN 12-1 IF NOT FOR THAT SCANDAL.

Also if 4 feet of snow hadn't hit AC, killing the Air Raid, WSU, Leach would have won that game.

The 4 feet deep snow should have canceled the AC moved it to another day, and the USC game should have been protested, negated, changed to a tie, declared not to be a loss, etc.

Both the AC, and CORRUPT, CHEATER PAC 12, USC game was absolute totally BULL SHIT.

Without that BULL SHIT WSU, LEACH would have have at least been 12-1, or 13-0 and at least gone to a Rosebowl, or the PLAY OFFS, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

Leach was CHEATED out of that.

Because of that 2018 GETS A POSITIVE ASTERISK, and Leach gets credit for a ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT SEASON at WSU.

So Leach had 1,2 ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT seasons at Texas Tech, and 1 ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT season at WSU for 2,3 total ROSEBOWL EQUIVALENT seasons in his career.

Leach also had 10 straight bowl games at Texas Tech, and between Texas Tech and WSU Leach had 16 bowl games in 18 years.

And 4 of Leach's 5 bowl games at WSU were 9-4 seasons which is just 1 win short of Price's 2 straight 10 win seasons in 2000's, and Leach had 4 9-4 seasons, to Price's 2 10 win seasons.

No matter how you slice it, break it down, Leach was more consistently better, more consistent at WSU over the long term at WSU then Price was, and if consider Texas Tech, MSU, Alabama, Utep, etc, in addition to WSU, and consider their whole careers, Leach is consistently better then Price.

There is a reason why Leach will be in the College Hall of Fame, and Price won't be, and that's because Leach is the better coach, with the better results, with more wins, with more bowls, etc, then Mike Price.

That said, Mike Price was AWESOME at WSU also.

You’re an idiot.

Rose bowl seasons are not outliers. They may be rare, they may take a lot of work and reloading, but you don’t get there accidentally. A lot of coaches don’t get there at all. Getting there twice - with completely different rosters - says you’ve really done something right - especially at an underresourced school like WSU. By comparison, Leach never made it (even if he should have in 2018).

Everybody sucks at UTEP. That program has always been terrible. They’ve won less than 40% of their games historically, and their best recent season was 8-4, which Price did twice. Squeaking into a low level bowl game is a pretty good season for them, which Price did 3 times. Price had more victories at UTEP than any other coach in the modern era, the only guy with more coached them when they were still Texas school of mines.

You’re only exaggerating the snowfall at the 2018 Apple Cup by about 50 times. Yeah, it snowed. But there was very little accumulation. Maybe it reached an inch (probably not). It was nowhere near feet. Or even foot. That loss was about preparation, not about snow.

You also completely overlook Leach’s 2 losses to FCS teams, his meltdown losses against Colorado and UCLA, and his stubborn refusal to adapt to teams who could effectively drop 8.

Leach isn’t going to be in the HOF because of his record and his performance on game days. He’s going to be in because of his contribution to the Air Raid and the way it affected football in general. Price doesn’t have an equivalent contribution, and simply won’t be in the hall. Leach makes it because he was a leader in his field, not just on the field. Price doesn’t, because he wasn’t.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

You’re an idiot.

Rose bowl seasons are not outliers. They may be rare, they may take a lot of work and reloading, but you don’t get there accidentally. A lot of coaches don’t get there at all. Getting there twice - with completely different rosters - says you’ve really done something right - especially at an underresourced school like WSU. By comparison, Leach never made it (even if he should have in 2018).

Everybody sucks at UTEP. That program has always been terrible.

You’re only exaggerating the snowfall at the 2018 Apple Cup by about 50 times.

You also completely overlook Leach’s 2 losses to FCS teams, his meltdown losses against Colorado and UCLA, and his stubborn refusal to adapt to teams who could effectively drop 8.

Leach isn’t going to be in the HOF because of his record and his performance on game days. He’s going to be in because of his contribution to the Air Raid and the way it affected football in general. Price doesn’t have an equivalent contribution, and simply won’t be in the hall. Leach makes it because he was a leader in his field, not just on the field. Price doesn’t, because he wasn’t.

Geezus. So much to reply to.

Firsrt, no need to call our buddy Mik an idiot. Keep it up and I will start calling you worse. How does Gibby95 sound? Or 95Biggs324lbs? Or,, well I could go on and on.

Yes on the 2018 Apple Cup snow exaggeration. It was snowy. not 4 feet of snow. Minshew choked so bad. As opposed to USC, where the egregious targeting and late hit were not called. Possibly the worst non-call in NCAA history.

Mike Price, who I met on more than one occasion (really genuine guy), totally F-ed up when he met his Destiny. Regardless of what really happened. He could have stayed at WSU and had the F-ing stadium named after him. Although I'm certain he has way more retirement money than me, relatively speaking I feel better about my life's f-ups when I think about his.

 

[Stretch 74]

"Mammoth" is too strong a word. It does not compare to two conference championships and Rose Bowls in 5 years after a 67 year absence. That said, he isn't deserving based on championships, win and losses, but because he was a amazing innovator responsible in large part to how the game is played today. He and Jack Elway should be in the HOF as a pair bring, the "spread" and "air raid" to the college game.

Need to correct your maths. It is a common mistake made by many people. It was actually 2 Rose Bowls in 6 years, not 5. The Cougs went to another Rose Bowl 5 years AFTER the first one, or 5 years later.

1997 was year 1, Rose Bowl in 1998
1998 was year 2
1999 was year 3
2000 was year 4
2001 was year 5
2002 was year 6, Rose Bowl in 2003

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Need to correct your maths. It is a common mistake made by many people. It was actually 2 Rose Bowls in 6 years, not 5. The Cougs went to another Rose Bowl 5 years AFTER the first one, or 5 years later.

1997 was year 1, Rose Bowl in 1998
1998 was year 2
1999 was year 3
2000 was year 4
2001 was year 5
2002 was year 6, Rose Bowl in 2003

You are clearly not an accountant or mathematician. 2002-1997=5. 2003-1998=5. 1997 was year 0.

 

[Stretch 74]

You are clearly not an accountant or mathematician. 2002-1997=5. 2003-1998=5. 1997 was year 0.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Thank God I am NOT an accountant, although I did take 2 semesters of accounting and one of statistics.

I don't know if you are trying to be cute with applying the incorrect logic to this case or you misunderstand the facts. As an accountant, I have to hope you are just effing with me. Logic and rational thought tells us that that there is only only one bowl game per year, one bowl game per season of football that is played. Think about 2016 and 2017. That was 2 seasons and 2 Holiday Bowl games for WSU. We didn't go to 2 Holiday Bowls in one season, we went to 2 Holiday Bowls in two seasons. So, six seasons from 1997 to 2002, with a Rose Bowl on each end. We went to the second Rose Bowl 5 years AFTER the first one Which is what your formula shows. 1997+1998+1999+2000+2001+2002=6 years.

 

[425cougfan]

You’re an idiot.

Rose bowl seasons are not outliers. They may be rare, they may take a lot of work and reloading, but you don’t get there accidentally. A lot of coaches don’t get there at all. Getting there twice - with completely different rosters - says you’ve really done something right - especially at an underresourced school like WSU. By comparison, Leach never made it (even if he should have in 2018).

Everybody sucks at UTEP. That program has always been terrible. They’ve won less than 40% of their games historically, and their best recent season was 8-4, which Price did twice. Squeaking into a low level bowl game is a pretty good season for them, which Price did 3 times. Price had more victories at UTEP than any other coach in the modern era, the only guy with more coached them when they were still Texas school of mines.

You’re only exaggerating the snowfall at the 2018 Apple Cup by about 50 times. Yeah, it snowed. But there was very little accumulation. Maybe it reached an inch (probably not). It was nowhere near feet. Or even foot. That loss was about preparation, not about snow.

You also completely overlook Leach’s 2 losses to FCS teams, his meltdown losses against Colorado and UCLA, and his stubborn refusal to adapt to teams who could effectively drop 8.

Leach isn’t going to be in the HOF because of his record and his performance on game days. He’s going to be in because of his contribution to the Air Raid and the way it affected football in general. Price doesn’t have an equivalent contribution, and simply won’t be in the hall. Leach makes it because he was a leader in his field, not just on the field. Price doesn’t, because he wasn’t.

Lots to agree with here but that snow in the 2018 AC was a bit worse than you're portraying it. It was a thick ice/slush mix that was really slippery, crunchy, and tough to navigate, especially with how suddenly it arrived. No snow in preceding days. It wasn't just a dusting of powder to glide through. It was pretty rough and massively impacted that game, which is not to say that preparation, the run/pass mix, defense, or anything else were ideal, either. The Cougs probably win that game on a clean field. But it wasn't clean and for various reasons, they didn't. Similar to how they could have beaten USC even with the Porter Gustin hit but failed to.

 

[dgibbons]

Lots to agree with here but that snow in the 2018 AC was a bit worse than you're portraying it. It was a thick ice/slush mix that was really slippery, crunchy, and tough to navigate, especially with how suddenly it arrived. No snow in preceding days. It wasn't just a dusting of powder to glide through. It was pretty rough and massively impacted that game, which is not to say that preparation, the run/pass mix, defense, or anything else were ideal, either. The Cougs probably win that game on a clean field. But it wasn't clean and for various reasons, they didn't. Similar to how they could have beaten USC even with the Porter Gustin hit but failed to.

Giant snowflakes, and it started snowing just before the game and quit just after the game.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

We've had an entertaining thread that compares apples, oranges and bananas. They all make great fruit salad, but you will be inherently biased toward which ever fruit you prefer. Let me throw in some pineapple.

Leach was a one trick pony that never learned a different offensive trick. But he was also a heck of a strategist and motivator. His "one trick" revolutionized college (and then, after a great deal of ridicule over a long period, pro) football. As several of you stated, that was his HOF claim to fame, and he clearly deserves it. If imitation is the greatest measure of flattery, Mike Leach may be the most flattered guy in modern football.

Now, as to Leach vs Price at WSU.

Leach took programs at both Tech and Wazzu that were flat on their back and utterly non-respected at the time he was hired and made them not just relevant, but legitimate contenders. He did it twice; two schools; both with the poorest funded P5 school in their state. If your mindset is that rebuilding from the basement up is the biggest challenge, then you will appreciate Leach more. Throw in Leach's attitude about academic progress and what got you kicked off a football team, and there was a lot to admire.

Price, on the other hand, accomplished what no other coach had accomplished in 3 generations. And he did it twice. Now, he was not rebuilding from the basement, as Leach had to do...Walden had to do more of that than Price did. Dennis the Menace benefitted from Walden's foundation, but did at least leave Price with something (not as much as he inherited, but neither was it Wulff level). None the less, Price took what he inherited, innovated as required, recruited with imagination (I'd argue he did the most with what he had from a recruiting standpoint of any HC in the PAC during his years there), was perhaps as good a motivator as WSU football has ever seen, and did it with panache. One thing I have to note in comparing Price and Leach...once they were head coaches, Price was always happy to learn a new trick from a friend or an enemy (and he had few enemies). You could watch his offenses evolve over time and experience. I can't say that about Leach. Mike Leach always believed that there was no need to change his system, and that any failures to win were strictly execution- related.

WSU was fortunate indeed to have had both Price and Leach as head coaches. Just the fact that we are having this conversation makes it clear that we were blessed in that regard.

 

[95coug]

We've had an entertaining thread that compares apples, oranges and bananas. They all make great fruit salad, but you will be inherently biased toward which ever fruit you prefer. Let me throw in some pineapple.

Leach was a one trick pony that never learned a different offensive trick. But he was also a heck of a strategist and motivator. His "one trick" revolutionized college (and then, after a great deal of ridicule over a long period, pro) football. As several of you stated, that was his HOF claim to fame, and he clearly deserves it. If imitation is the greatest measure of flattery, Mike Leach may be the most flattered guy in modern football.

Now, as to Leach vs Price at WSU.

Leach took programs at both Tech and Wazzu that were flat on their back and utterly non-respected at the time he was hired and made them not just relevant, but legitimate contenders. He did it twice; two schools; both with the poorest funded P5 school in their state. If your mindset is that rebuilding from the basement up is the biggest challenge, then you will appreciate Leach more. Throw in Leach's attitude about academic progress and what got you kicked off a football team, and there was a lot to admire.

Price, on the other hand, accomplished what no other coach had accomplished in 3 generations. And he did it twice. Now, he was not rebuilding from the basement, as Leach had to do...Walden had to do more of that than Price did. Dennis the Menace benefitted from Walden's foundation, but did at least leave Price with something (not as much as he inherited, but neither was it Wulff level). None the less, Price took what he inherited, innovated as required, recruited with imagination (I'd argue he did the most with what he had from a recruiting standpoint of any HC in the PAC during his years there), was perhaps as good a motivator as WSU football has ever seen, and did it with panache. One thing I have to note in comparing Price and Leach...once they were head coaches, Price was always happy to learn a new trick from a friend or an enemy (and he had few enemies). You could watch his offenses evolve over time and experience. I can't say that about Leach. Mike Leach always believed that there was no need to change his system, and that any failures to win were strictly execution- related.

WSU was fortunate indeed to have had both Price and Leach as head coaches. Just the fact that we are having this conversation makes it clear that we were blessed in that regard.

One more point: Price also believed in defense, and regularly put the best athletes on D. It was an important part of his game. Leach was very much a “the best defense is a good offense” guy, and just wanted the D to give the offense a rest and give up 1 less point than the offense scored.

Just an issue of approach, really…but Leach got burned on his approach more than Price did.

 

[95coug]

Lots to agree with here but that snow in the 2018 AC was a bit worse than you're portraying it. It was a thick ice/slush mix that was really slippery, crunchy, and tough to navigate, especially with how suddenly it arrived. No snow in preceding days. It wasn't just a dusting of powder to glide through. It was pretty rough and massively impacted that game, which is not to say that preparation, the run/pass mix, defense, or anything else were ideal, either. The Cougs probably win that game on a clean field. But it wasn't clean and for various reasons, they didn't. Similar to how they could have beaten USC even with the Porter Gustin hit but failed to.

It was wet, cold, and miserable. But it didn’t stick in significant quantity, and certainly wasn’t the 4 feet stated above.

Official weather records for Pullman, Nov 23, 2018 show 0.7 inches. So my estimate of a 50x overstatement was incorrect. It was a 68x overstatement.

 

[ttowncoug]

I liked Price a lot, but I think Leach, given how much tougher the Pac-12 was when he was here and how low the program went under Wulff gets my nod as the better coach. Don't forget, Price took over for Erickson and the program was pretty decent. When Leach came in, no where near the same level and overall, the Pac-12 was way tougher then it was in the 90's. In the 90's, it was UCLA (occasionally) with USC and UW being the two top programs. Oregon State was terrible. Oregon, got better later in the decade, but no where near they were 20 years later.

 

[mikalalas]

I liked Price a lot, but I think Leach, given how much tougher the Pac-12 was when he was here and how low the program went under Wulff gets my nod as the better coach. Don't forget, Price took over for Erickson and the program was pretty decent. When Leach came in, no where near the same level and overall, the Pac-12 was way tougher then it was in the 90's. In the 90's, it was UCLA (occasionally) with USC and UW being the two top programs. Oregon State was terrible. Oregon, got better later in the decade, but no where near they were 20 years later.

Everybody also seems to be forgetting about PRICE'S LOTS LOTS LOTS of 3-8 type seasons, and that Price ON AVERAGE HAD 2,3, 3-8 TYPE SEASONS PER EACH 6,7,8,9+ win season

There was about 6, 3-8, 4-7 type seasons during Price's 13 years at WSU.

Price had 5 bowl games(2 of them Rosebowls)(92, 94, 97(Rosebowl), 2001, 2002(Rosebowl), 1,2, 5-6, 1,2, 6-5(89, 2000), 1,2, 4-7, 3,4, 3-8, and about a .500 break even winning percentage.

Now if you talk to NON COUGS, and point out, break down Price's accomplishments, stats, etc, and Leach's accomplishments, stats, etc, most think Leach is the better coach, both better lifetime coach, and better WSU coach.

ONLY SOME COUG FANS think Price was equal or better coach. Most NON coug general college football fans, coaches, players, etc, think Leach was better then Price.

And some general, non coug fans, college football fans, coaches, players, AD's, etc, etc, would have fired Price over his performance at WSU.

2 Rosebowls are awesome. But some of you are overvaluing the 2 Rosebowls.

2 Rosebowls and a 500 win record, and LOTS of 3-8, 4-7 type losing seasons, 3 minor bowl games is not as great as some coug fans think it is.

And most non cougs agree.

 

[Coug90]

Lots to agree with here but that snow in the 2018 AC was a bit worse than you're portraying it. It was a thick ice/slush mix that was really slippery, crunchy, and tough to navigate, especially with how suddenly it arrived. No snow in preceding days. It wasn't just a dusting of powder to glide through. It was pretty rough and massively impacted that game, which is not to say that preparation, the run/pass mix, defense, or anything else were ideal, either. The Cougs probably win that game on a clean field. But it wasn't clean and for various reasons, they didn't. Similar to how they could have beaten USC even with the Porter Gustin hit but failed to.

First wounded duck throw from Minshew that hit a UW defender right in the hands I knew it was going to be a long night. Yes it was nightmarish stuff and the F’d up thing was it was beautiful in the morning tailgating and again the next day. I still maintain we win that AC by two TDs if that snowstorm didn’t hit. Then again perhaps ‘92 is a different story if it’s clear skies. Weather can’t be an excuse.

 

[Coug90]

Everybody also seems to be forgetting about PRICE'S LOTS LOTS LOTS of 3-8 type seasons, and that Price ON AVERAGE HAD 2,3, 3-8 TYPE SEASONS PER EACH 6,7,8,9+ win season

There was about 6, 3-8, 4-7 type seasons during Price's 13 years at WSU.

Price had 5 bowl games(2 of them Rosebowls)(92, 94, 97(Rosebowl), 2001, 2002(Rosebowl), 1,2, 5-6, 1,2, 6-5(89, 2000), 1,2, 4-7, 3,4, 3-8, and about a .500 break even winning percentage.

Now if you talk to NON COUGS, and point out, break down Price's accomplishments, stats, etc, and Leach's accomplishments, stats, etc, most think Leach is the better coach, both better lifetime coach, and better WSU coach.

ONLY SOME COUG FANS think Price was equal or better coach. Most NON coug general college football fans, coaches, players, etc, think Leach was better then Price.

And some general, non coug fans, college football fans, coaches, players, AD's, etc, etc, would have fired Price over his performance at WSU.

2 Rosebowls are awesome. But some of you are overvaluing the 2 Rosebowls.

2 Rosebowls and a 500 win record, and LOTS of 3-8, 4-7 type losing seasons, 3 minor bowl games is not as great as some coug fans think it is.

And most non cougs agree.

I’m confused about what we are even arguing here. Price and Leach were both incredibly successful coaches at WSU in different ways. Leach a more consistent winner but just ran into a buzz saw most notably in UW that kept us from winning a P12 title. Price capitalized on his most veteran teams but also had several stinkers mixed in. And Price’s best team might not have even been either RB team.

The 2001 team was ranked like 5th in the country going into the AC which we completely screwed the pooch, and had an outside shot at the NC before that game. Then went on to beat Drew Brees in the Sun Bowl. Gesser, Trufant, David, Ryan Long, Derting, Eric Coleman, DD. That team was loaded.

Both coaches sucked in the AC. Aside from 92, Price way overthought that game and dropped a couple we should have won easily. And Leach didn’t give it enough credit and was embarrassed by his own stubbornness. They certainly both deserve their due in Cougar lore for doing things that had never been accomplished before.

 

[95coug]

I’m confused about what we are even arguing here. Price and Leach were both incredibly successful coaches at WSU in different ways. Leach a more consistent winner but just ran into a buzz saw most notably in UW that kept us from winning a P12 title. Price capitalized on his most veteran teams but also had several stinkers mixed in. And Price’s best team might not have even been either RB team.

The 2001 team was ranked like 5th in the country going into the AC which we completely screwed the pooch, and had an outside shot at the NC before that game. Then went on to beat Drew Brees in the Sun Bowl. Gesser, Trufant, David, Ryan Long, Derting, Eric Coleman, DD. That team was loaded.

Both coaches sucked in the AC. Aside from 92, Price way overthought that game and dropped a couple we should have won easily. And Leach didn’t give it enough credit and was embarrassed by his own stubbornness. They certainly both deserve their due in Cougar lore for doing things that had never been accomplished before.

I think you’re misremembering slightly. 2001 was good, but didn’t get above #9. They were 7-0 and ranked 14 when they dropped a game at home to Oregon, then beat UCLA & ASU to get back to 9 before losing to UW. That was the one where we passed all the way down the field and then kept handing to Dave Minnich inside the 5, and kept getting stuffed.

In 2002, we were the preseason #12, lost to Ohio State in week 3, and were 9-1 and ranked #3 for that disastrous Apple Cup where Kegel had to pinch hit in the late 4th and threw the pass that Gordon Riese said was a lateral. We were right behind Miami and Ohio state for title game, and could have been in the conversation if we’d gotten past UW (although they finished undefeated, so it would have been a short conversation).

 

[Coug90]

I think you’re misremembering slightly. 2001 was good, but didn’t get above #9. They were 7-0 and ranked 14 when they dropped a game at home to Oregon, then beat UCLA & ASU to get back to 9 before losing to UW. That was the one where we passed all the way down the field and then kept handing to Dave Minnich inside the 5, and kept getting stuffed.

In 2002, we were the preseason #12, lost to Ohio State in week 3, and were 9-1 and ranked #3 for that disastrous Apple Cup where Kegel had to pinch hit in the late 4th and threw the pass that Gordon Riese said was a lateral. We were right behind Miami and Ohio state for title game, and could have been in the conversation if we’d gotten past UW (although they finished undefeated, so it would have been a short conversation).

Got it. Ok so the scenario with 2001 is we would have been in the Fiesta Bowl had we won the AC. The RB game was the NC game that year. I did get them mixed up. Epic fall to the Sun Bowl. If I recall we were a 14 pt favorite in Husky Stadium which was and still is probably is a first.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

First wounded duck throw from Minshew that hit a UW defender right in the hands I knew it was going to be a long night. Yes it was nightmarish stuff and the F’d up thing was it was beautiful in the morning tailgating and again the next day. I still maintain we win that AC by two TDs if that snowstorm didn’t hit. Then again perhaps ‘92 is a different story if it’s clear skies. Weather can’t be an excuse.

I'm a huge Minshew fan. But that 2018 Apple Cup loss was 100% on him. He floundered under the weather and the pressure. Mutts didn't have any problem with the snow.

 

[95coug]

Got it. Ok so the scenario with 2001 is we would have been in the Fiesta Bowl had we won the AC. The RB game was the NC game that year. I did get them mixed up. Epic fall to the Sun Bowl. If I recall we were a 14 pt favorite in Husky Stadium which was and still is probably is a first.

I don’t remember what the selection criteria was in those days. We lost to Oregon, so they still would have gotten the automatic berth and the Fiesta. But we probably would have been ranked 6-7 in the BCS.
I think we’d still fall short of a BCS game in that scenario. There was only one at-large bid, and Florida took it at #5 and played in the Orange bowl. I think we’d have switched spots with UW and would have played Texas in the Holiday.

 

[95coug]

I'm a huge Minshew fan. But that 2018 Apple Cup loss was 100% on him. He floundered under the weather and the pressure. Mutts didn't have any problem with the snow.

He wasn’t good, but the real problem is that nobody was getting open. UW already knew the drop 8/rush 3 strategy, and took full advantage. And then our defense couldn’t get off the field. It was a bad day all around.

 

[Coug90]

I'm a huge Minshew fan. But that 2018 Apple Cup loss was 100% on him. He floundered under the weather and the pressure. Mutts didn't have any problem with the snow.

He struggled throwing the ball in the elements. The Game was effectively over when he didn’t go headfirst on 4th down when we needed a score. That was 100% on him.

 

[Coug90]

He wasn’t good, but the real problem is that nobody was getting open. UW already knew the drop 8/rush 3 strategy, and took full advantage. And then our defense couldn’t get off the field. It was a bad day all around.

UWs defensive front wasn’t nearly as dominant that year. They coulda dropped 8 all day in decent weather Minshew picks them apart. Arizona tried that a couple weeks before and we dropped 70 on them. All we needed against UW was 30. Completely different game without that weather. He couldn’t throw the ball.

 

[Suudy]

In 2002, we were the preseason #12, lost to Ohio State in week 3, and were 9-1 and ranked #3 for that disastrous Apple Cup where Kegel had to pinch hit in the late 4th and threw the pass that Gordon Riese said was a lateral. We were right behind Miami and Ohio state for title game, and could have been in the conversation if we’d gotten past UW (although they finished undefeated, so it would have been a short conversation).

As a football official, that call was horrendous. We get it drilled in our head, "When in doubt, it is a forward pass." The fact that there was discussion among the officials for so long clearly indicated doubt. On the officiating forums I frequented back then, the consensus was that it was a very bad call.

Perhaps this was the beginning of the end for P10/P12 officiating. Back in the day, it was the SEC that got ridiculed as the worst officials.

 

[95coug]

As a football official, that call was horrendous. We get it drilled in our head, "When in doubt, it is a forward pass." The fact that there was discussion among the officials for so long clearly indicated doubt. On the officiating forums I frequented back then, the consensus was that it was a very bad call.

Perhaps this was the beginning of the end for P10/P12 officiating. Back in the day, it was the SEC that got ridiculed as the worst officials.

Reality is that the game shouldn’t have been close anyway. We played down to them, and Kegel played poorly in relief. But yes, it was a terrible call.