After reading a recent feature story on Dennis Erickson...
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There is no doubt whatsoever that Erickson is the better coach. It's not even close. It's laughable to even compare.
DE won two national titles coached 2 NFL teams 7 conference titles with 4 different teams at the college level
Won the Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta Bowls...
And Walden...went to 1 bowl game which he lost in 17 years of coaching.
Erickson coached only 2 years at WSU and took us to a bowl game in year 2 which he won (Aloha)
So Erickson has secured more bowl victories for WSU than Walden. And handed a 9-3 team to Mike Price.
Walden handed a 3-7-1 team over to Erickson.
Factor in we were stupid enough to keep Walden's deadbeat loser self around for so long (which no other program would have done...for so long and continually put up with his temper-tantrum hissy fits / "straight talk" even when he tried to sandbag the program because he was bitter his incompetent protege failed.
How can it not be Erickson by miles and miles and miles.
Just because we kept that mangey has been around doesn't mean it was a good thing. It just shows how stupidly nice we are and how foolish we were to even listen to him about ANYTHING....EVER...the guy was total deadweight and we celebrated and carried him around like a hero? Please.
Show many ANY....ANY program in the country that would let a losing record / 1 bowl game coach run the radio programming/have input in the athletic department hiring/firing decisions for future coaches. Any program? There isn't 1 on the power 5 level...because Athletic departments don't let has been coaches with no significant accomplishments make any decisions or have any input.
We paid Walden for his time here...and kept paying him...and kept paying him....and kept paying him...while he whined and cried and was obnoxious...like a deadbeat uncle that never would leave...but you keep supporting him because "he's family"...when all he does is holding you back.
Only at WSU would we be so naive and nice.
DE won two national titles coached 2 NFL teams 7 conference titles with 4 different teams at the college level
Won the Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta Bowls...
And Walden...went to 1 bowl game which he lost in 17 years of coaching.
Erickson coached only 2 years at WSU and took us to a bowl game in year 2 which he won (Aloha)
So Erickson has secured more bowl victories for WSU than Walden. And handed a 9-3 team to Mike Price.
Walden handed a 3-7-1 team over to Erickson.
Factor in we were stupid enough to keep Walden's deadbeat loser self around for so long (which no other program would have done...for so long and continually put up with his temper-tantrum hissy fits / "straight talk" even when he tried to sandbag the program because he was bitter his incompetent protege failed.
How can it not be Erickson by miles and miles and miles.
Just because we kept that mangey has been around doesn't mean it was a good thing. It just shows how stupidly nice we are and how foolish we were to even listen to him about ANYTHING....EVER...the guy was total deadweight and we celebrated and carried him around like a hero? Please.
Show many ANY....ANY program in the country that would let a losing record / 1 bowl game coach run the radio programming/have input in the athletic department hiring/firing decisions for future coaches. Any program? There isn't 1 on the power 5 level...because Athletic departments don't let has been coaches with no significant accomplishments make any decisions or have any input.
We paid Walden for his time here...and kept paying him...and kept paying him....and kept paying him...while he whined and cried and was obnoxious...like a deadbeat uncle that never would leave...but you keep supporting him because "he's family"...when all he does is holding you back.
Only at WSU would we be so naive and nice.
Walden achieved much more at Washington State, most certainly.
Erickson could have taken WSU to the next level, but... He quit.
Erickson could have taken WSU to the next level, but... He quit.
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Walden is a goofball and a dead weight around the programs neck. It is amazing that he is still around. He is the old guard's last gasp in trying to control things,As leach s team keeps winning and Kent's starts,the cartoon characters and TV personalities will soon disappear into the woodwork.
Hey, when you can defend a coach who retired after hanging an 0-10-1, you've GOTTA do that.
Why are you doing that?... Are you really unable to have a conversation?... or just bitter I'm in Pullman again... And you're not... AGAIN!
Six losing seasons out of 9, and his pinnacle of success: a 3rd place (7-4) conference finish, or a 4th place conference finish plus loss in Holiday Bowl (8-3-1).
Erickson wasn't around long enough to compare WSU coaching resume's, but overall coaching records indicate they aren't even in the same league (Erickson: 179-96-1; Walden: 72-109-7). Erickson was very successful at Idaho, Oregon State, WSU, Miami (not so awesome at ASU), whereas Walden wasn't very good at WSU and stunk at Iowa State.
Not many coaches get to go winless. Probably puts you near the bottom of the profession.
Jim Walden faced the biggest challenge to Cougar football in modern history. 4 head coaches in four years. The worst facilities in the Conference. Remote location, no press. No tv. No internet.
WSU... quite literally could not find a coach with head coaching experience to take the job.
Jim Walden was an internal staff hire.
Jim Walden entered his final game in 1982 in the drivers seat to Win the PAC conference. He took WSU to our first bowl game in 50 years.
Jim Walden made Cougar football relevant in the modern era.
Dennis Erickson, did none of that while at WSU.
WSU... quite literally could not find a coach with head coaching experience to take the job.
Jim Walden was an internal staff hire.
Jim Walden entered his final game in 1982 in the drivers seat to Win the PAC conference. He took WSU to our first bowl game in 50 years.
Jim Walden made Cougar football relevant in the modern era.
Dennis Erickson, did none of that while at WSU.
That all sounds like moral victory stuff--which you were denigrating a while back
I don't have a problem acknowledging the good things Jim Walden did for WSU football. Some of you may not have been around during that stretch of 4 coaches in 4 years. Walden would have had us in three bowls under today's proliferation of bowl games. His goofy cornball radio commentary and defense of Wulff really has nothing to do with his time as HC at WSU. Erickson was obviously a more successful coach. I don't know why there needs to be a good guy and a bad guy every time a comparison comes up between WSU coaches. I thank both of them for their contributions.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
Oh, I agree Wulffui. And it's clear to me that Erickson was the better coach. That doesn't mean Walden needs to be characterized in a negative light during his time as HC. That was my only point. Now if the argument is whether Walden was a better/good guy in the past 5 years, that's a different argument.
Okay, time to get excited and mentally prepared for today's game!
Glad Cougar
Okay, time to get excited and mentally prepared for today's game!
Glad Cougar
I think Walden also donated a fairly sizable amount of money, which maybe had something to do with him sticking around longer than he should have.
I really liked him in the booth. I found his homerism amusing & unique. His subsequent Wulff related meltdown was very sad to me.
In my opinion, when Walden first became the color analyst, we was good. But, as the years went on, he became more about being cute in his personality than being a good analyst. When Wulff took over, he went way over the top being an advocate for a player he recruited and stopped being an analyst.
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I was in school '76-'80 and saw the coaching turnstiles first hand. I also knew several players and have met a few since. Walden was truly the right guy at the right time. If we flip the question a bit and ask who was the slimiest, most self centered coach during the '70's - oughts I think Jackie Sherrill would probably win hands down…he was in a class by himself. But next on the list of selfish liars would be Ericson. Dennis was charming, but he told everybody what they wanted to hear, everywhere he went. Give him credit for consistency. The only people who could generally count on him were his closest assistants, and he bent over backwards for them…but nobody else, including players, peripheral staff, school, or even his various bosses over the years.
Both Sherrill and Ericson were talented. Both eventually had to live with personal crises of their own causing. Walden was good, but not quite as talented as either of those two. And he also created a personal crisis for himself, but that was not by design. It was similar in many ways to your uncle that loves you all but becomes estranged from the family due to a combination of his eccentricities, lack of tact, stubbornness and inability to control his mouth. Jim Walden was an honorable guy, but he wasn't perfect, and eventually he created a situation which he could not survive. I will always feel gratitude for what he did as coach, while regretting how he handled the coaching change.
Both Sherrill and Ericson were talented. Both eventually had to live with personal crises of their own causing. Walden was good, but not quite as talented as either of those two. And he also created a personal crisis for himself, but that was not by design. It was similar in many ways to your uncle that loves you all but becomes estranged from the family due to a combination of his eccentricities, lack of tact, stubbornness and inability to control his mouth. Jim Walden was an honorable guy, but he wasn't perfect, and eventually he created a situation which he could not survive. I will always feel gratitude for what he did as coach, while regretting how he handled the coaching change.
They're both gone, who cares?
This is no different than a Wulff/Leach debate. It's totally pointless and irrelevant, and can only lead to the same kind of antagonistic back-and-forth that it always does.
The only reason to entertain these questions is if they are relevant to today's team, and neither Erickson or Walden is. Stop. Let the past stay where it is.
Erickson was an innovative coach who did better coaching other coaches' recruits than his own. Walden could recruit and find talent, but wasn't innovative enough to win with less. Erickson lucked out by inheriting the best OL in school history, by a country mile and an NFL QB and RB. He recruited like crap in Pullman, however. Walden squandered his chance for greatness in 1983 with the Rypien affair, the dumbest move since Evashevski was shown the door. Bottom line: both guys had their flaws, but Erickson was/is an insincere carpetbagger. Walden gets the nod over Erickson.
It is not close for me. Erickson seven days a week. I was in school for one year of Walden, two years of Erickson and one year of Price. I knew many players and they were not upset when Walden left. The campus was tired of Walden's act and he left before he was run out of town.
There was real excitement with Erickson and players were devastated when he left. It took Price a year to get over his DII act and become a legitimate DI coach. Erickson was in Pullman two years and we all know the first year is usually a wash when it comes to recruiting.
Erickson was highly successful at almost every stop he had in college. Walden was outright awful at ISU and the only way Walden gets to mediocre as a coach at WSU is when you grade him with a curve.
Personal experience often slants the way someone thinks about certain people. I had the opportunity to spend an hour, one-on-one with Jim Walden when he was WSU's coach (following a golf charity event in Beaverton years ago). He was kind, gracious, fun, and....most of all....he loved WSU. I also met Erickson, albeit not one-one-one and not for an hour. I never got the same feeling that he loved WSU the way Walden did. What does that have to do with the job each of them did as head coach at WSU and beyond? Not much....but I thought Walden was much more genuine.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
Wow this is one of those tough pick your poison questions. On what dimension are we measuring them? As an innovative coach? as a human being? As a true Coug, someone who has done good/bad for the program?
Clearly Erickson can coach. But, Erickson didn't care much about WSU. Dennis only cares about Dennis. He's in the top 5 of opportunistic slimebag mercenary coaches in a profession that has more than a few of those--a fact that's been demonstrated everywhere he's gone. When Erickson left I was upset but very quickly I didn't think about him at all and still don't. It's like a hot girlfriend who turns out completely untrustworthy, if you value your sanity--you don't dwell, you let it go and move on. I don't consider him a true Coug at all.
On the other hand, I have thought a lot about Walden over the years, what he did right and wrong as a coach. What he was like as an "ambassador" both good and bad, and how frustrating he has been the last several years with his blind biased bitterness revolving around the Wulff hiring and firing. If I am honest with myself, I must admit I have very mixed feelings about him. Like the poster above, I have often thought about him like the family member who got a bit crazy and is now embarrassing to the family name. Walden at least at one time genuinely cared about WSU and bled Crimson. I still have a faint probably unrealistic hope that he sees the error of his ways, and I for one would welcome him back in the Cougar family.
I could say a LOT more about Walden both good and bad but I will just leave it at that. Unfortunately, I am willing to bet that this thread will get deleted. I am tired of spending a lot of time and thought on a post only to see the entire thread get deleted instead of individual posts.
Clearly Erickson can coach. But, Erickson didn't care much about WSU. Dennis only cares about Dennis. He's in the top 5 of opportunistic slimebag mercenary coaches in a profession that has more than a few of those--a fact that's been demonstrated everywhere he's gone. When Erickson left I was upset but very quickly I didn't think about him at all and still don't. It's like a hot girlfriend who turns out completely untrustworthy, if you value your sanity--you don't dwell, you let it go and move on. I don't consider him a true Coug at all.
On the other hand, I have thought a lot about Walden over the years, what he did right and wrong as a coach. What he was like as an "ambassador" both good and bad, and how frustrating he has been the last several years with his blind biased bitterness revolving around the Wulff hiring and firing. If I am honest with myself, I must admit I have very mixed feelings about him. Like the poster above, I have often thought about him like the family member who got a bit crazy and is now embarrassing to the family name. Walden at least at one time genuinely cared about WSU and bled Crimson. I still have a faint probably unrealistic hope that he sees the error of his ways, and I for one would welcome him back in the Cougar family.
I could say a LOT more about Walden both good and bad but I will just leave it at that. Unfortunately, I am willing to bet that this thread will get deleted. I am tired of spending a lot of time and thought on a post only to see the entire thread get deleted instead of individual posts.
For the record, you could make the argument that many of the foundation things that Walden did were the reason that Erickson had a situation where he could win. If that's unimportant, why did we waste hundreds of millions of dollars on facility improvements recently? If it's just the coach, why go in debt for nothing? Walden fought hard for WSU and would have had three bowl teams in today's environment. Still, I agree with the arguments that say that he overstayed his time and his act got old. I think everyone was ready for him to be gone.
Erickson was a better gameday coach but because of all of his inherent flaws, he's just a guy who used us to get a bigger paycheck. I don't blame him for it, but it's the truth.
Dude, DE got as bigger paycheck because of his results. Just stop it. Everyone in football knows DE and hardly anyone around the country can recall Walden......unless you're talking about the pond....because then..it's a legend.
You are correct when you suggest Walden would have had bowl teams in '83 and '84 had there been more bowls available. It also is true Walden recruited the players Erickson shaped into a winner in '88, but I doubt Walden would have achieved the same success had he remained. His and his staff's verbal and physical mistreatment of players in '85 and '86 sealed his fate. There was no recovering from that.
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Completely disagree. This has been a good, interesting and mostly civil discussion. I, for one, enjoy the history lesson from those who followed the program at the time.
Erickson inherited IIRC a good QB...good running backs...Jason Hanson.....he also went 3/7/1 IIRC his first year.....he had the players already.....and I do remember fondly in December of that final year of his when he said boldly that no way was he even considering leaving and the next day, he was packing.....remember too, that DE left many problems behind...he was not a good disciplinarian...DE was a great coach....he was not a loyal coach nor a WSU person....he was a DE backer, all the way....but that's his right...
Jim Walden, like Doba, are nice men who wanted the program to always be on top....
sometimes, you have to embrace the passion over the product....(but don't get me started on Doba)
Jim Walden, like Doba, are nice men who wanted the program to always be on top....
sometimes, you have to embrace the passion over the product....(but don't get me started on Doba)
FWIW, I don't blame Erickson for leaving. He would have been an idiot not to go. At the same time, when you look at his overall career arc, he was a mercenary and nothing more. That doesn't mean he wasn't good at it.
My comments about Walden were based on the idea that he set the table for Erickson to be successful. He recruited some damned good players, he got football games back in Pullman and he was the guy who steadied the ship and stopped the revolving door at WSU. Without Walden, who knows if WSU would have started to "expect" to be a factor in the Pac-10 again. The 1981 team was the first time in about 25 years that WSU was a serious contender for the conference title. He fostered the attitude that WSU could play with anybody and he energized the fanbase. It was time for him to leave when he bailed for Iowa State, but it reflects a lack of understanding of WSU history to ignore his contributions.
Which made it all the more galling that he called out Leach for mistreatment of players.
Not many coaches could have had the success in college that Dennis Erickson did and several stops. As a coach, he was great during his prime. Go look at a lot of coaches bio's and you will see a lot of stops along the way. Because Erickson was good, he was offered a lot of jobs along the way. He was sought after, he didn't go chasing jobs like Nueheisel did.
Walden on the other hand, his biggest contribution was that he was not sought after, so he stayed for nine years. He did get the game back in Pullman. Still, he just did things that other coaches could and should have been able to do.
This is some veiled revisionism.
Erickson was widely reviled and mocked in WSU cIrcles for bolting Pullman to take the Miami job after spending just two years in Pullman. This shortly after ditching Wyoming after just one year. He's also held in disdain around Moscow for ditching them to take the ASU job. All quite logical professional opportunities but Dennis left a sour taste wherever he carpetbagged to his next stop.
Definitely a quality football coach but the fact is Dennis is all about Dennis and always has been.
Erickson was widely reviled and mocked in WSU cIrcles for bolting Pullman to take the Miami job after spending just two years in Pullman. This shortly after ditching Wyoming after just one year. He's also held in disdain around Moscow for ditching them to take the ASU job. All quite logical professional opportunities but Dennis left a sour taste wherever he carpetbagged to his next stop.
Definitely a quality football coach but the fact is Dennis is all about Dennis and always has been.
We humans all want to be wanted. When someone we care about tells us that they are just not that into us, it hurts. Erickson did that at a number of places. There are people that are still mad at Tony Bennett for leaving. As a football coach, Erickson is light years ahead of Walden. As a human being, neither great examples to follow.
Right but that's like anybody who is good at what they do and get a better job offer. Would you take a better opportunity if it was offered to you? Most people would.