Conservative white America does have a problem with Racism. As I stated in a post a bit back (maybe another thread i can't remember) I'd love for one prominent GOP politician to come out say racism is a full stop for them and they don't want their vote. Instead they dance around them and accept them in order to hold their spot as they need that vote. I'm not saying all conservatives are racist, but many cringe and turn away instead of hitting head on and you see that in the party that represents them. Don't give the racists a home and a voice, and things change for the better. When a video surfaces of David Duke celebrating the election of somebody, that somebody should immediately tell Duke to go pound sand.
Anyone else ok with the season getting cancelled?
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Conservative white America does have a problem with Racism. As I stated in a post a bit back (maybe another thread i can't remember) I'd love for one prominent GOP politician to come out say racism is a full stop for them and they don't want their vote. Instead they dance around them and accept them in order to hold their spot as they need that vote. I'm not saying all conservatives are racist, but many cringe and turn away instead of hitting head on and you see that in the party that represents them. Don't give the racists a home and a voice, and things change for the better. When a video surfaces of David Duke celebrating the election of somebody, that somebody should immediately tell Duke to go pound sand.
You my friend are part of the problem, not the solution. That's all I have to say about that, to quote your buddy.
I'm an Izard County boy. Born in Batesville, lived in Melbourne and Sydney. Small world, Kurt.
Well, I was taught that melting pot thing in US History too (8th grade?) and it seemed like a nice idea at the time in 85+% white Spokane. But I bailed on Spokane long ago and found out that the US and world in general doesn’t work that way and likely never will. People tend stick to the familiar for support, comfort and safety and that will never change. And people will always judge others different from themselves ( positive or negative, subtly or otherwise) be it by skin color, socioeconomic, religion etc.
The melting pot concept really stems from a white Christian perspective of dominance and you can see extreme versions of it by how American native populations ( From North America to south America ) were treated as savages and brought to their knees and forced to give up their cultures and languages.
I think it’s important to celebrate differences and recognize and accept other cultures without expecting those people to “melt” or blend in.
And on the other side, Biden called Robert Byrd a mentor. The same Robert Byrd that established a chapter of the KKK in West Virginia.
How exactly is he part of the problem? Trump is a full on racist and I hear few conservatives willing to stand up to him and call him out over fear of losing votes from conservative extremists. And at the moment he’s at it again with Kamala Harris and the conservative goon squad is getting in line with him. If conservatives didn’t have a deep seated racism issue they’d be calling trump and his extremists followers out. I hear crickets.
And Byrd denounced his KKK involvement and called it his greatest mistake. But don’t let that get in the way of your eagerness to fit Biden for a klan outfit.
My thoughts on racism as it relates to the African American community are in line with how Ben Shapiro outlines it. Does it exist? Of course. All races and religions of people hold negative thoughts and stereotypes about other groups.
With regard to the African American situation, the vast majority of the problems are cultural, not racial, and if we're going to have big kid discussions about the topic, then the black community needs to pull up a chair and prepare to answer as many tough questions as "white America."
With regard to the African American situation, the vast majority of the problems are cultural, not racial, and if we're going to have big kid discussions about the topic, then the black community needs to pull up a chair and prepare to answer as many tough questions as "white America."
Certainly there are cultural issues but to deny or diminish the racial component is hugely naive. Shapiro, while very intelligent, is a propagandist and nothing more.
Do you and Biden wear the same size?
And your man Robert Byrd sure sounds sorry. More like he regrets joining the Klan because it ended up being the losing side, and that really screwed up his ambitions. From his wiki:
Byrd later called joining the KKK "the greatest mistake I ever made." (1993)[22] In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics but also warned, "Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don't get that albatross around your neck. Once you've made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena."[23] In his last autobiography, Byrd explained that he was a KKK member because he "was sorely afflicted with tunnel vision—a jejune and immature outlook—seeing only what I wanted to see because I thought the Klan could provide an outlet for my talents and ambitions."[24] Byrd also said in 2005, "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times ... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened."[12]
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I think it’s pretty unfair to judge someone by their behavior, thoughts and actions that occurred in a bygone era. Many of us learn and improve ourselves over time.
My childhood and early years as an adult occurred before the voting rights act and before MLK and the civil rights movement. Racial stereotyping, racist and sexist jokes and other types of bigotry were common. And I don’t recall any whites (including myself) ever saying that behavior was unacceptable or calling someone out for racist language or actions. It wasn’t until years later that I finally began to realize how offensive some of the behavior of my coworkers and myself really was. And to be honest, I‘m not sure I would have ever come to that realization were it not for the civil rights protests of the 60s. At first I wondered what all those people were so angry about but slowly came to understand they were at least in part angry about me.
So I know people’s attitudes about race can legitimately change over time. That may even be true of Robert Byrd although I can’t claim to have known the man. On the other hand, some people never will change in that regard. Our current president gives every indication that he is one of those.
Byrd formed a chapter of the KKK. He also filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964, at the tender age of 47.
Of course there’s a racial component, but using your language, to diminish the cultural component is hugely naive.
Here are some of Shapiro’s legitimate questions on culture vs. race.
Explain why blacks aren’t graduating from high school?
Explain why the number of young black children in prison dwarfs that of any other ethnic group.
Explain why blacks are shooting each other at rates significantly higher than other races and ethnic groups are shooting each other?
Explain why black people (13% of the population) are responsible for 50% of murders?
Explain why single motherhood in the black community jumped from 20% to 70% in the same course of time that the civil rights movement has made such huge strides. Is America more racist now than it was is 1960, and if it is, please explain how that happened?
There are a lot of different factors that influence what leads to your questions. One factor is systemic, ingrained racism. Another factor is a cultural problem where people that aspire to succeed are denigrated by their peers as "Uncle Toms". Another factor is the socio-economic disadvantages that make it harder for blacks to succeed. It's not as easy as telling black people to step up. It's also unrealistic to expect white people to embrace giving advantages to young black people to allow them to close existing gaps. That's just contrary to human nature. Those questions you ask above are used as the basis and excuse for white people to say, "Blacks don't deserve a chance because they won't embrace it", with no awareness that the attitude creates a situation where the questions become self-fulfilling prophecies.
Yes, its unfair to just ask the black community to "step up." However, it isnt unfair to ask them to address and acknowledge the issues and be involved in creating a solution that doesn't solely consist of blaming racism. What we are seeing right now across the US absolves/ ignores any and all cultural issues that the black community has and places all the "blame" solely on the white community.
Let me just say that I agree 100% that for things to really change, a big part of that change needs to happen in the black community.
I would also like that...except it has been romanticized . In the good old days there was always a separating of people - right from the get go. Native Americans (as we call them today) were savages that needed to be civilized. Blacks were...well we all know, not even counted as fully human and not given equal access. Hell if you didnt own land you there was a strong push to keep you from voting. Chinese working on railroads were also vilified, as were the Irish etc, etc, etc.
As my grandad used to say - related to me by my dad..."the good old days never were".
Essentially I do agree with the sentiment, however as Madison said (I think) "If men were angels, there would be no need for (fill in the blank)...laws". That's all I have to say about that.
At first it say shapriro is approaching this from the wrong perspective- mostly. It's as much about class as ethnicity/culture.
And, it's difficult to parse out all the contributing factors on a message board. Blacks not graduating at a level that would meet a national average could have MANY contributing factors going allmthemway back generationally to their grandparents and the opportunities they were either afforded, or deprived of economically. We known this did happen in relation to home loans, to give one example. We also know of other higher profile examples like Jim Crow laws. Up until Brown vs Bored of education their schooling was substandard. Wealth white withdrew their kids out of public schooling and started private schooling to deprive public schools of funding in Virginia as another example - an attempt to starve the education infrastructure. These actions have generational influence. On top of that we have a criminal justice system that seems to come down heavier on the black community for violation of drug use laws. The question is, is Shapiro asking if - as a group - are blacks less intelligent? He does paint with a broad brush and tends to strawman frequently.
Already addressed the crime, except to add, when a police department MAY over-police a community you are going to find more culprits. Pooper or disadvantaged communities also tend to commit more crimes and people - in general - when living in close proximity and density to each other, irrespective of their class/culture/ethnicity, are going to - If they commit crimes- victimize those closest to them.
As more single mothers, that percentage is rising amongst whites as well. Its tripled from 1980 (10%) to 30% (2016) according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. And when black males are being imprisoned at a disproportionate rate in relation to their share of the population - for whatever reason, at a minimum, that will lead to fatherless homes. Now the question is whether their incarceration rate is fair and just. This is just some of the nuance that Shapiro often doenst delve into. It would be more interesting if he just - rather than asking broad questions in rapid fashion, he explore each...or just come out and state what he's really getting at. Taihtsat
I agree that the term "white privilege" has become a loaded term. So in these kinds of conversations its important to define what is meant by using that term.
I take it to mean that , as a white person, there are just some things I don't ever even have to consider in my behaviour that might be misconstrued by the police or a "Karen". I take that term to mean I will be given the benefit of the doubt, based on my appearance above anything else - to a point, that black people or other ethnic minorities might not be given. Taihtsat
Unfortunately that's the term that gets used because it best describes the way the system actually works. It is a complex, sometimes subtle social dynamic, you're right about that, but it can have pretty serious and sometimes deadly consequences. A big step when it comes to having conversations about race is finding a way to turn off that defensive reflex so that you can look at the problem as a systemic problem, one that you may be complicit in or enjoy advantages from, but it's not one that you devised, carry sole responsibility for, or endorse. Another key element is being mindful of context and historical power relationships between groups. It's like the rule in comedy about punching up and not down, or in workplace relationships between boss and employee. Talking about race, as a white guy (this one, anyway) means not treating discussions of the problem as a personal accusation of bigotry, because as you noted, once that happens, reasoning shuts off and everything is retaliation from a defensive crouch, or a desire to simply escape the conversation. I'm not defending every rhetorical bomb thrower out there, but being in a defensive crouch every time the topic comes up isn't a place to be.
The thing that makes these discussions so difficult is that so often, it's hard for us to really understand the thoughts going through the minds of those that are different from us. I'm well known on here for my lack of support for Robert Barber. I have zero sympathy for a 285 lb guy wrecking a smaller dude just because he could. I still feel that he needed to be punished for his actions.
That said, as I think about it this morning, if Barber was raised in an environment where that kind of violence is the expected, and acceptable, way to handle the situation that he was in, was it really fair to end his football and collegiate affair over a fight? On one hand, I feel that it's important that the university crush any suggestion that fist fights of that kind are acceptable solutions and I think that the trite saying, "With great power comes great responsibility" holds true....even if it's cliche. On the other hand, how do you really make someone like Barber a better person if our first reaction is to remove him from an environment that provides an opportunity for him to learn to be a better person?
And that brings it back around to the bigger picture of what's going on in America today. Black culture in urban settings today is a breeding ground for bad habits and negative attitudes. It's not even their fault to some degree. Hundreds of years of mistreatment has cultivated many of the issues that are present today. Criminalizing everything and filling a criminal system with young black men and permanently stamping them as damaged goods is a big reason why many of the questions posed by CougPatrol can even be asked.
When I was six years old, I had some pretty fuggin' terrible friends and they convinced me to shoplift flashlights from a local drug store so we could explore a giant stormwater box culvert that ran hundreds of feet under a local hospital. I got caught. As a white kid, I was forced to talk to store security, they called in a cop that was a friend of the manager who gave me a lecture and I was turned over to my dad. Lesson learned and no record of it. If I had been born to a family two blocks further north and had a different skin color, I would have been processed into the juvenile court system and my life would have been ruined.
Rounding back on this, even someone like me, who likes to think of themselves as being "progressive" on race relations these days, needs to take a step back and think about how we may need to reconsider how we treat young men of color like Robert Barber and consider what the long term goal is rather than worrying about satiating our righteous anger that we hold towards a dumb, passionate kid who maybe just didn't know better. I still think that Barber needed to be punished in a public way that discourages the actions that occurred that night, but at the same time, I'm wiling to admit that it was a situation that required more nuance than the SCB and WSU gave it.
"White privilege" is a real thing and we benefit from it every single day even when we can't see it. Being "guilty of being black on a Friday" is just as real. Until those things aren't real, these discussions will be happening. What makes it tough is that the dirty, dark secret is that white people, including folks like me, subconsciously enjoy having that privilege and don't want to admit that they are scared of losing that advantage in life. We are genetically programmed to be selfish and protect our own interests and it's hard for us to be supportive of those that we perceive as different.
That said, as I think about it this morning, if Barber was raised in an environment where that kind of violence is the expected, and acceptable, way to handle the situation that he was in, was it really fair to end his football and collegiate affair over a fight? On one hand, I feel that it's important that the university crush any suggestion that fist fights of that kind are acceptable solutions and I think that the trite saying, "With great power comes great responsibility" holds true....even if it's cliche. On the other hand, how do you really make someone like Barber a better person if our first reaction is to remove him from an environment that provides an opportunity for him to learn to be a better person?
And that brings it back around to the bigger picture of what's going on in America today. Black culture in urban settings today is a breeding ground for bad habits and negative attitudes. It's not even their fault to some degree. Hundreds of years of mistreatment has cultivated many of the issues that are present today. Criminalizing everything and filling a criminal system with young black men and permanently stamping them as damaged goods is a big reason why many of the questions posed by CougPatrol can even be asked.
When I was six years old, I had some pretty fuggin' terrible friends and they convinced me to shoplift flashlights from a local drug store so we could explore a giant stormwater box culvert that ran hundreds of feet under a local hospital. I got caught. As a white kid, I was forced to talk to store security, they called in a cop that was a friend of the manager who gave me a lecture and I was turned over to my dad. Lesson learned and no record of it. If I had been born to a family two blocks further north and had a different skin color, I would have been processed into the juvenile court system and my life would have been ruined.
Rounding back on this, even someone like me, who likes to think of themselves as being "progressive" on race relations these days, needs to take a step back and think about how we may need to reconsider how we treat young men of color like Robert Barber and consider what the long term goal is rather than worrying about satiating our righteous anger that we hold towards a dumb, passionate kid who maybe just didn't know better. I still think that Barber needed to be punished in a public way that discourages the actions that occurred that night, but at the same time, I'm wiling to admit that it was a situation that required more nuance than the SCB and WSU gave it.
"White privilege" is a real thing and we benefit from it every single day even when we can't see it. Being "guilty of being black on a Friday" is just as real. Until those things aren't real, these discussions will be happening. What makes it tough is that the dirty, dark secret is that white people, including folks like me, subconsciously enjoy having that privilege and don't want to admit that they are scared of losing that advantage in life. We are genetically programmed to be selfish and protect our own interests and it's hard for us to be supportive of those that we perceive as different.
I agree with everyrhing you said, but youre asking ~200 million white people to turn off their defense reflex.
And even if someone jumps on board with white priveledge, due to the nature of the term being accusatory the next question is "so what do you want me to do about it?" Thats Thats the water gets muddied quicky, because the answer ranges from "just acknowledge that its real" to " its not enough to not be racist, you have to be anti-racist."
Kayak....
Experience in legislature....like our current President who either willfully or unknowing violates pieces of legislation? Not sure how term limits is any worse than say Linsday Graham getting all tied up about oral sex and wants to impeach back in the day meanwhile has his full support behind a guy with a sixth month old is having an adulterous affair with a playmate and a porn star. Maybe term limits will make these folks live up to their convictions.
Second, you are absolutely correct if all the donations go in one pot, the lobbyist and big money won't participate. That is the intended consequence. It only becomes reality when these is a will from the masses who get tired of the interests of the few to overshadow the greater good for the masses. There will be a day, and there will be plenty of people who won't like it.
Floyds death was not about bad police training on the perp who choked him out. I have seen a show where Ted Nugent shot a pig with an arrow and had more respect for the pig than the officer had for Floyd. Hands in pocket, taking a leisurely stroll on his neck. The "bad training" was on the officer who sat around and did nothing. And I do feel for them because they were inexperienced.
Don't ever feel "sorry" for disagreeing with me...while I might be of a different mindset doesn't mean I didn't digest and learn a different perspective.
See, this is the thing that gets overlooked. It’s not just white people who are critical of African American culture. I’m sure most of you are from the Northwest, but as an East coast native, Let me tell you, racism is far more complex than white vs. black in many pockets of the USA.
Every culture of people who have immigrated and had to acclimate to American society have done so with more success, and a better “social approval rating” than the black communities have. I’ll use my family story as an example of why I think the term “privilege” unnerves so many people.
I’m Italian, a native of Boston, and my great grandparents were right off the boat. As a result, they worked bottom tier jobs so their kids could eat. They were spit on, referred to openly as WOPs (without papers), Dago’s (sit around and watch the days go by), grease balls, spaghetti tossers, you know the slang. The media referred to Italians (and the Irish) as “white ni%#ers because of their darker skin and the fact they shared the streets with the black community. Italians were the original Street thugs. Gangsters. Criminals. Everyone associated Italians with organized crime. How did this perception change so quickly?
Back to my family. My Grandfather was a first generation Italian American. Still poor and still at the bottom of the social hierarchy, he worked 2 jobs, one in production and the other as a night watchman to put food on the table for his wife and 5 kids in their 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom house in the slums of Lawrence, MA. My other grandparents also worked factory jobs; 10 hours/day and lived in a 2-bedroom flat with their 3 kids. Btw, look up Lawrence, MA. It makes Rainer Beach look like a destination resort.
My father worked his ass off academically and became the 1st person to attend and graduate college (aerospace engineering - Boston University). He eventually landed (pun intended) a job at Boeing, which brought us out West when I was in middle school. To this day, I am the only person on my Moms side of the family to attend and graduate from college.
I know this is long winded, so I’ll try and come to my point. If you were to talk with my Father, his Dad, or my Great Grampa and floated the term “privilege” at them, they’d laugh and then likely take a swing at you. They rose up from the sewer, as did many immigrant families. Was their path easier than that of African Americans? Perhaps. Why was their, and other immigrant groups, more successful at forging ahead? To me, the answer is simple. Family and culture. Italians, Irish, Jewish, Hispanic, Asian, East Indian; there is a common thread to their successful integrations. Family, Fathers, and supportive communal unity.
There will never be anything that rivals slavery and the subsequent oppression (America’s great shame) that African Americans continue to be burdened with, but when you throw the term privilege around, you discount the accomplishments of people, you put them on the defensive, and you discount the massive cultural problems that plague the black community. The scary thing is, now we’re at place in history where all cultures are experiencing a breakdown in family unity, and the black community has actually suffered more in this area since 1960 than they did prior to the civil rights movement.
Not only the most visible but most in our control. They are to serve and protect EVERYONE. There is a reason why they carry a badge and most are in a uniform. They are paid by the public to perform that duty.
Patrol....there is no question there was discrimination and the fact your dad made it is an inspiring story.
I would point maybe to some subtle difference...but before I do I think Jimmy Kimmel nailed the term white privilege, at least for him...and me. It didn't have a thing to do with wealth or income, but had to do with barriers not thrown in front of him due to the color of his skin.
My daughter went to a mini prom this past June with a bi-racial kid, the son of a former Coug RB, and talking to his mom her worries weren't the same as mind with our kids. My worries are about her meeting up with the wrong kid, making sure she didn't get in the car with someone who had been drinking etc.
Her dates mom worried about her son getting pulled over by the police, something happening to him with regards to the police. Every single time he went out in his car she worried solely because the color of his skin. And of course she had the other worries I had about high school kids drinking and driving etc. Think about that. She is worried because her sons skin color and his interactions if he ever gets pulled over. That is some pretty powerful stuff.
Finally, a friend who runs one of the largest companies in Puget Sound had a training, talked to senior management about race, and talked to one of his senior staff members who was black what his experiences were like. The staff member said "have you ever been pulled over 14 times in a year for going seven over the speed limit. And all fourteen times I did exactly what I was taught to do since I was 16, roll down the window and make sure both hands are on the top of the steering wheel". My friends jaw literally dropped as that hadnt been his experience.
And here may be some subtle differences I was referring to...if anyone in your grandfathers neighborhood went off to join the military, went to war, would they have been afforded the VA benefits of buying a home? How about the GI bill for education? Right to vote? Able to go to a diner to eat food.
Food for thought!
You bring up a lot of good points and they deal with topics/questions I have long considered. Your fathers story is not all that different than my father in laws: Old Testament religion, parents family fled persecution In Europe with virtually nothing - his dad “pops” had to drop out of high school to support the family when his own father died unexpectedly. Pops was by all accounts a very bright man but spent his life as a welder and butcher. My father in law dealt with lots of discrimination growing up including quotas in the US when applying to medical school so he went to Europe for that instead. He did pretty good as a family physician in the US but did amazingly well with real estate investment. But that’s because banks would lend to him. No doubt the Dr title helped with that but I have to seriously question if the same financial opportunities would have been available to him had he been black.
People may not like the term, but a pretty simple illustration of it is the number of times you see police successfully de-escalate an unstable person with a weapon who happens to be white, long enough to take them into custody, versus the number of times you see somebody black in a similar situation who is either beaten or doesn't live through the experience. Or go watch the video of what happened to Tamir Rice, and tell me that happens to a white kid. But there's all sorts of other examples.
Redlining creates concentrations of poverty and poor health outcomes (low property values, only being allowed to buy or rent property in certain neighborhoods, many of which become food deserts and suffer from far more pollution than more affluent areas), generational poverty means fewer opportunities and more crime (plenty of white folks in this basket, but combined with overpolicing and more severe sentencing you have higher percentages of black families that are missing a parent), and we can keep going.
The best predictor of educational achievement is the achievement of a student's parents. If those parents are in jail, dead, or stuck working multiple low-paying jobs to keep the roof and the kids fed, and have no education beyond high school, where does a bright kid go to get resources for higher education in the crap school system he's stuck in because property taxes fund schools so there's no tax base? How likely is he to blow off his school work and go get a job to help the family? Again, this can and does happen with white kids too, but it impacts a greater proportion of black families because of the way the system works. I was a first-generation college student in my family, but I benefited from parents with stable work, a full belly, schools in good neighborhoods, no serious transportation obstacles, and so on. And even black folks that climb to the top of the educational status mountain can still be treated like suspects in their own homes as old men, like Harvard prof Skip Gates during the Obama years. Remember that?
Employment discrimination is still a thing. People with 'black sounding' names don't get interview calls as often. This is probably not as bad as it was 60 years ago, but it still exists, and that's another barrier. Asset forfeiture is another fun element of the justice system, and this also gets deployed on black folks more often than white.
This stuff is everywhere. Black women suffer far worse medical outcomes because they are not listened to as patients as often. Little black girls want to play with the white dolls because they're "prettier." I even remember laughing at the term 'culturally biased' on standardized tests the first time I saw it, because I was the kind of kid that those tests were designed for. Then a prof started showing me problematic sample questions and explaining where the issues were, and I got it.
So much of life, especially before age 40 or so, is just navigating the great socioeconomic sorting machine. In that great documentary about McNamera, 'The Fog of War,' there's a scene where Robert describes the punch card machines that sorted candidate profiles for an Army officer training school, and he mentions this one particular question that simply asked "What would you rather be, a florist or a coal miner?" He noted with a laugh that he had actually spent a summer working as a florist, but answered 'coal miner,' and then said "I think the reasons are obvious to you." What are those reasons? Why are they obvious? The people that are in a position to sort out who belongs and who doesn't will design tests of worthiness that reinforce their own values. Systems perpetuate themselves, unless acted upon by an outside force.
Redlining creates concentrations of poverty and poor health outcomes (low property values, only being allowed to buy or rent property in certain neighborhoods, many of which become food deserts and suffer from far more pollution than more affluent areas), generational poverty means fewer opportunities and more crime (plenty of white folks in this basket, but combined with overpolicing and more severe sentencing you have higher percentages of black families that are missing a parent), and we can keep going.
The best predictor of educational achievement is the achievement of a student's parents. If those parents are in jail, dead, or stuck working multiple low-paying jobs to keep the roof and the kids fed, and have no education beyond high school, where does a bright kid go to get resources for higher education in the crap school system he's stuck in because property taxes fund schools so there's no tax base? How likely is he to blow off his school work and go get a job to help the family? Again, this can and does happen with white kids too, but it impacts a greater proportion of black families because of the way the system works. I was a first-generation college student in my family, but I benefited from parents with stable work, a full belly, schools in good neighborhoods, no serious transportation obstacles, and so on. And even black folks that climb to the top of the educational status mountain can still be treated like suspects in their own homes as old men, like Harvard prof Skip Gates during the Obama years. Remember that?
Employment discrimination is still a thing. People with 'black sounding' names don't get interview calls as often. This is probably not as bad as it was 60 years ago, but it still exists, and that's another barrier. Asset forfeiture is another fun element of the justice system, and this also gets deployed on black folks more often than white.
This stuff is everywhere. Black women suffer far worse medical outcomes because they are not listened to as patients as often. Little black girls want to play with the white dolls because they're "prettier." I even remember laughing at the term 'culturally biased' on standardized tests the first time I saw it, because I was the kind of kid that those tests were designed for. Then a prof started showing me problematic sample questions and explaining where the issues were, and I got it.
So much of life, especially before age 40 or so, is just navigating the great socioeconomic sorting machine. In that great documentary about McNamera, 'The Fog of War,' there's a scene where Robert describes the punch card machines that sorted candidate profiles for an Army officer training school, and he mentions this one particular question that simply asked "What would you rather be, a florist or a coal miner?" He noted with a laugh that he had actually spent a summer working as a florist, but answered 'coal miner,' and then said "I think the reasons are obvious to you." What are those reasons? Why are they obvious? The people that are in a position to sort out who belongs and who doesn't will design tests of worthiness that reinforce their own values. Systems perpetuate themselves, unless acted upon by an outside force.
I lived in Reservoir for years, just moved out to Broadford where I could afford to buy a damned house
One other thing since race seems to be the topic we've shifted to on this thread. I'm just gonna post this, but social media makes it easy to be the worst version of ourselves sometimes:
Btw, I didn’t post the details about my family to imply that racism doesn’t exist. I was trying to convey one of the reasons why people become so triggered when they hear, or worse, are told to check their privilege.
There are tens of millions of White, Asian, and Hispanic people in America who come from backgrounds where they had to work for everything they have. Hearing the term privilege immediately puts them on the defensive, and in some ways, adds kindling to the racial divide.
There are tens of millions of White, Asian, and Hispanic people in America who come from backgrounds where they had to work for everything they have. Hearing the term privilege immediately puts them on the defensive, and in some ways, adds kindling to the racial divide.
Throwing around 'check your privilege' is getting a bit too easy in some cases, but in others it's simply a matter of not thinking about the context in which stuff gets said. In many cases people aren't even aware of the context until it's pointed out to them. I had no idea Tulsa had a thriving black economy in the early 20th Century that was basically burned to the ground on a pretext, because it was never once mentioned in a history class, for example. There are tens of millions of people from all backgrounds who have to work for everything they had. There aren't many people in America that live on investment income. Some just have more obstacles than others.
And one thing on the immigrant element. First generation, fresh off the boat immigrants buy into the national narrative, hard, and in many cases manage to succeed in spite of the obstacles, largely by killing themselves so that their kids might do better. It's harder to buy into that narrative from an Indian reservation, or a derelict housing project. Hope is a powerful motivator. Some people don't have as much.
This has been an interesting discussion. My WSU degree was in engineering, but my favorite classes, hands down, were in what I'd broadly call "cultural anthropology". Some were through the anthro department, some through Soc, and although I never took one I'd guess that the Psych dept might have had some that spent some time in that realm. My fiance' at the time (wife for 40 years now) was an anthro major, and we used to talk a lot about her classes. She was into archaeology, but my favorites were her cultural classes. I got to take a Soc honors evening seminar class for a semester in bar culture. That might be my favorite in all 4 years.
My $0.50 summary of those classes: We don't know what we don't know. The purpose of an education, whether acquired in school or in the school of hard knocks, is to help us understand what we don't know...or at least recognize to some extent where we are simply ignorant, because we have no background or context. That goes double when it comes to other people and their situations. It is generally not possible for us to walk a mile in another's shoes. All people make assumptions; in engineering you are taught that when you "assume" you make "an ASS out of U and ME". But we can't help it; assumptions are our working hypotheses, which we then explore and question. The problem is when we don't question the hypothesis. And really...why would we question a hypothesis that conforms to what we already think that we know? Class, race, politics and religion all have areas where our upbringing will cause us to make assumptions that, if we are not pushed to question and test them, are all too easy to simply accept at face value and move ahead with. If any of you are teachers or understand the school system, you understand the importance of parental involvement in education. That involvement takes time. A kid is carrying a weight to begin with if he/she is from a single parent household. Add substandard schools to the mix and you have an unequal opportunity situation that, IMHO, is the area where people of all walks of life in the US ought to be able to find common ground. Provide equivalent opportunity. Poverty means limited food, but we've addressed a lot (not all, but a lot) of that with breakfast and lunch programs. Single parent school support can be helped with after school programs, which exist some places but not all, and whose quality varies significantly from place to place. Class size is a factor that is also addressed some places but not all others. School resources and school safety, as well as safety to and from school, are other areas. I don't care what your class, race, politics or religion tell you...equivalent educational opportunity is an area where we all ought to be able to agree, and making that happen (or failing to do so) is in my mind the place to start. Of course other areas are important as well, and unequal policing is certainly part of that. But if we can't agree on education and make that opportunity a national priority (not just lip service, but a real priority), then I don't know where to go from here.
My $0.50 summary of those classes: We don't know what we don't know. The purpose of an education, whether acquired in school or in the school of hard knocks, is to help us understand what we don't know...or at least recognize to some extent where we are simply ignorant, because we have no background or context. That goes double when it comes to other people and their situations. It is generally not possible for us to walk a mile in another's shoes. All people make assumptions; in engineering you are taught that when you "assume" you make "an ASS out of U and ME". But we can't help it; assumptions are our working hypotheses, which we then explore and question. The problem is when we don't question the hypothesis. And really...why would we question a hypothesis that conforms to what we already think that we know? Class, race, politics and religion all have areas where our upbringing will cause us to make assumptions that, if we are not pushed to question and test them, are all too easy to simply accept at face value and move ahead with. If any of you are teachers or understand the school system, you understand the importance of parental involvement in education. That involvement takes time. A kid is carrying a weight to begin with if he/she is from a single parent household. Add substandard schools to the mix and you have an unequal opportunity situation that, IMHO, is the area where people of all walks of life in the US ought to be able to find common ground. Provide equivalent opportunity. Poverty means limited food, but we've addressed a lot (not all, but a lot) of that with breakfast and lunch programs. Single parent school support can be helped with after school programs, which exist some places but not all, and whose quality varies significantly from place to place. Class size is a factor that is also addressed some places but not all others. School resources and school safety, as well as safety to and from school, are other areas. I don't care what your class, race, politics or religion tell you...equivalent educational opportunity is an area where we all ought to be able to agree, and making that happen (or failing to do so) is in my mind the place to start. Of course other areas are important as well, and unequal policing is certainly part of that. But if we can't agree on education and make that opportunity a national priority (not just lip service, but a real priority), then I don't know where to go from here.
Some of these comments actual highlight the "institutional racism" that black people face. There is a long held assumption that Asians, Hispanics and other minorities are hard workers and that blacks are lazy and waiting for special treatment and reparation checks. When it comes to how they get treated, that is often the baseline. Other minorities are happy to see that stereotype in place, because again, human beings are genetically geared to protect their own interests and any advantage is one that should be maintained and exploited.
I just watched a white crazy guys get shot and killed in my town earlier this year. No ltl was used on him, and though he was dangerous at the time i feel like there could have been a better resolution.
Also, Tamir Rice.. entirely tragic but shouldnt be included in the racist conversation. Cops were given limited/bad info and a kid who should know better was pointing a realistic fake gun at people in a park. Should he be alive? Of course, but like brionna taylor, this isnt about race, its abiut poor policing. (No knock warrants are bullsh!t and should be outlawed.)
Donald Trump is a clown. He has made that abundantly clear over the past 4 years, and frankly, for most of his public facing life. There is no absolutely no reason for anyone to continue to take him seriously or to think he is the person that should be in charge of the nation. And deep down I think his voters all know this, but they all care more about "triggering the libs" than anything else. This entire thread is nothing but evidence to support that.
Or, what one says is not as important as what one does...you know, there is that.
