Anyone else ok with the season getting cancelled?

[dgibbons]

What are you trying to argue, that the US economy isn’t a mess right now? Twist the numbers all you want, it has nothing to do with the media. Double digit unemployment, deficit soaring, only positive is equities that are on stimulus steroids and are inevitably going to burst. Erin Andrews is asking you how you feel about your team being down 40 points at half and you’re saying she’s fake news because you only got outgained by 30 yards.

Good National leadership would have ripped the bandaid off and gotten ahead of the problem so it didn’t stick around and get worse (plenty of international examples to choose from). Our national leadership is an international joke and it’s going to take a helluva long time to fix.

There is a big difference between a 33 percent contraction in one quarter and a 33 percent annualized contraction. Like the difference between breakdown of civilization and no breakdown of civilization.

And let's be honest here, if there was the "national leadership" you write about, the criticism would be Trump is violating the constitution, following Hitler's footsteps, rigging the election, and all the other BS that comes out of the media.

 

[Cougsocal]

*************************

Please be careful with your use of statistics. The economy did NOT shrink by 33% last quarter. That 33% number is an annualized number, as if the economy shrinks the same amount for each quarter of the year.

I understand that that distinction was not made clear in the media when they reported it. Any idea why that was? Any chance that it is related to the fact that the MSM is 90+5 liberal and they are all infected with TDS? Of course that is true, they will do anything possible to try to harm Trump/conservatives.

You are right, I googled without looking closer and got "yellow pressed." Sorry. I hate all this political nonsense. The best way of conquering all of this would be putting the interest of the country first, not one's tribe/party affiliation. Sadly, a crisis like this only shows just how badly we are governed at all levels and parties. We need someone who can unite us and define our mission, instead we have a sad choice between two dotards in November.

 

[Stretch 74]

What are you trying to argue, that the US economy isn’t a mess right now? Twist the numbers all you want, it has nothing to do with the media. Double digit unemployment, deficit soaring, only positive is equities that are on stimulus steroids and are inevitably going to burst. Erin Andrews is asking you how you feel about your team being down 40 points at half and you’re saying she’s fake news because you only got outgained by 30 yards.

Good National leadership would have ripped the bandaid off and gotten ahead of the problem so it didn’t stick around and get worse (plenty of international examples to choose from). Our national leadership is an international joke and it’s going to take a helluva long time to fix.

***************************

Of course that isn't what I was saying. I was just pointing out that it was VERY misleading for most of then media, and then you, to say that the economy shrank by 33% in one quarter when that was an annualized rate. The reality was that it actually shrank about 9% in the quarter. Are you trying to say that there isn't much difference in 9% vs 33%? Holy shitski-9% shrinking is bad, very tough, big problem, that's for sure. But 33% in one quarter is an absolute disaster, a cluster**** of major proportions, likely a meltdown that could take decades to recover from, if at all.

You are naive with your view about "good national leadership". Remember what happened when the president took early action and restricted access from China and then some other countries that were in early throes of the virus? That's right-he was absolutely castigated as a bigoted racist by other national leaders like Schumer, Pelosi, Cuomo, Newsome, and that media that you claim had nothing to do with it. And then those same folks went out and encouraged people to carry on with their lives as normal, go to Chinatown, go to a Broadway play, etc. If Trump would have imposed restrictions on the states himself he would have been sued immediately and almost surely Pelosi would have initiated impeachment proceedings again. No doubt about that.

I would like to know exactly how you think that Trump or any governor out there could have stopped this thing in its tracks. Remember that what we "knew" and "know" about it has constantly changed. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, you MUST wear a mask. It will decimate the children like the flu, no wait, it hardly affects the children. Let your UPS packages sit for a day or two before touching them-never mind, you cannot catch it that way. Wait until summer when the heat will kill the virus off totally-oops, never mind. If we can just get through the initial wave it will all die out-nope, the second wave will hit in the fall and be worse than the first one.

And so on, and so on, and so on. Perhaps God would have known all the right steps to take, but no mortal would have, especially when all the experts that advise and criticize were not in agreement or totally understood the situation.

 

[Cougsocal]

Your correct on all accounts. SD and masks are panaceas, put in place to curb public outcry/ outrage. While I'm sure they do have some positive effect, the overall effect is marginal. The people who are dying are in high risk groups, and if they do not effectively self isolate for the next 2 years they take their lives into their own hands.

Also, I'm not sure what your "18% towards 0.1%" means, but in WA the motality rate of confirmed cases is 2.7%, and as a percentage of population is 0.02%. So, are we trying to save people, or are we trying to save sick people, because if its the former we are winning. But that's not what we're being sold, as its been stated many times the goal posts have moved from curve flattening to case count (why?) to all lives matter and no one can die.

My biggest issue with cancelling sports and the overall reaction in general is the absolute zero tolerance for risk and the lie that is being told that we (humans) can somehow control or otherwise render harmless this virus. If I were naive I would just believe it to be simple hubris and fear of the unknown, but I've seen these actions before where those in power use a existential boogieman to manipulate and control the masses - AGW, except they've replaced windmills with masks. And if you can create a narrative that you know there will be conservative push-back on, you can then paint them as co-conspirators with the boogieman.

Again (and I'll keep saying it because I don't want to get into THAT pissing match), I'm not saying AGW or covid are hoaxes, but they are definitely being used as political fodder to create and drive narratives. I'm dying to see how sports being cancelled will be spun into an anti-Trump diatribe

Since no one has any real idea about the true levels of exposure, infection, resistance, immunity or recovery, a real morality rate just can't be determined at this time. What we do know is that in places that have already experienced death rates approaching 1000 to 2000 per million population (0.1 to 0.2%) i.e. NY, NJ, Mass, Conn, RI, Belgium, Sweden, Spain, Italy, San Marino and, to a lesser extent, the UK, all have experienced dramatic declines in infections detected and deaths which can't be readily explained though current social isolation practices. This suggests to the scientists in Sweden who are controlling their health policy, and me, that when a community gets to this death rate there appears to be a virus "burn out" effect. Now, this could all be proven fallacious if these places have significant second waves in the future. But if is true, Washington will need to experience approximately 10,000 deaths (10,000,000 population = 0.1%) before it experiences this "burn out" effect. With only 1,800 deaths so far, the state is only 18% of the way there. It may be an allusion, but it is the only "light at the end on the tunnel" evidence we have right now.

 

[WaltherPPK]

So ... ? it was obvious the season would be cancelled over a month ago - some posters just don't " get it " whether the logic applied to the decision was right, wrong, science or voodoo !

WSU is gonna have to tighten the belt and it is overdue !

Let the Coach figure out how to best use the long break, it just may be a great opportunity to really flush the program. IF you thinkin there will be a spring season, I have some great real estate I can sell you !

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Since no one has any real idea about the true levels of exposure, infection, resistance, immunity or recovery, a real morality rate just can't be determined at this time. What we do know is that in places that have already experienced death rates approaching 1000 to 2000 per million population (0.1 to 0.2%) i.e. NY, NJ, Mass, Conn, RI, Belgium, Sweden, Spain, Italy, San Marino and, to a lesser extent, the UK, all have experienced dramatic declines in infections detected and deaths which can't be readily explained though current social isolation practices. This suggests to the scientists in Sweden who are controlling their health policy, and me, that when a community gets to this death rate there appears to be a virus "burn out" effect. Now, this could all be proven fallacious if these places have significant second waves in the future. But if is true, Washington will need to experience approximately 10,000 deaths (10,000,000 population = 0.1%) before it experiences this "burn out" effect. With only 1,800 deaths so far, the state is only 18% of the way there. It may be an allusion, but it is the only "light at the end on the tunnel" evidence we have right now.

You say that the data set is incomplete, then go on to make an argument for a statistical "burn out" based on same said data. What am i missing?

 

[Coug90]

Honest question:

What do you think the rhetoric would (have) been if the Cheeto had come out and enacted an enforcable national mask mandate and/ or stay at home order? I'm imagining the cries of "fascism" would have been heard from NYC to LA, but that's just me.

Imho, states doing their own thing was the best idea, it was just poorly executed by some states. ND/ SD seem to be doing fine, didn't lock down, didn't need to due to their pop density. Would making them mask/ lock down seem right or necessary?

States doing their own thing was a horrible F’ing idea. A. The best analogy I heard which is 100% true is that it’s like having a no pissing section of a swimming pool. What good does it do for states to do their own thing when 250k people from every state can get on their motorcycle and congregate in close quarters for several days then go back to their state? There’s zero boundaries between states in America...which is awesome, but also an incredibly stupid way to manage a pandemic. 2. It politicized it from the first day they first started taking it seriously. You don’t politicize a national public health crisis.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

States doing their own thing was a horrible F’ing idea. A. The best analogy I heard which is 100% true is that it’s like having a no pissing section of a swimming pool. What good does it do for states to do their own thing when 250k people from every state can get on their motorcycle and congregate in close quarters for several days then go back to their state? There’s zero boundaries between states in America...which is awesome, but also an incredibly stupid way to manage a pandemic. 2. It politicized it from the first day they first started taking it seriously. You don’t politicize a national public health crisis.

My only comment about the politicization of the virus is that I find it laughable that some hold the delusion that one side or the other is not doing it. Both parties are trying to use this pandemic for their own benefit and it's kind of disgusting.

I kind of wonder about the comments like, "the media has a vendetta against Trump and is seeking to get him out of office". For me, I've always seen him as the worst example of what a person should aspire to be. He fails as a human being in every single way except for making money at the expense of others. Everything that he does is only for his own personal gain and glorification. I don't disagree with the notion that the media is actively trying to discourage people from voting for Trump, but the thing is.......I can't see why anyone wants him in office unless they support racism and selfishness. In the past sixteen years with Democrats as President, there have been no recessions and we've experienced good overall stock market growth. Unemployment dropped throughout both the tenures of Clinton and Obama.

I'm not a fan of a lot of liberal policies and there is danger in too much "progressive" thinking, but man, it's hard to be proud to be a Republican right now.

 

[Coug90]

There is a big difference between a 33 percent contraction in one quarter and a 33 percent annualized contraction. Like the difference between breakdown of civilization and no breakdown of civilization.

And let's be honest here, if there was the "national leadership" you write about, the criticism would be Trump is violating the constitution, following Hitler's footsteps, rigging the election, and all the other BS that comes out of the media.

Fair enough my response was simply that everything is not fine and dandy with the economy. It’s a mess. There’s numerous indicators that point to that. Now, some people equate the economy to their 401k or investment in equities...sure there’s some correlation, but equities in these situations have responded positively to the expectation that the government is going to stimulate the economy with cash (which in these dire circumstances they should). People look at their 401Ks and say the economy is great, which is nonsense when all of the other numbers are what they are and the Fed is basically out of juice.

As for your second point I’ll say this. To be fair Trump could have done everything perfectly with Covid and Democrats would have given him an F. That’s the 2 party system, and BTW Im not a Democrat. As for everything else you said, let’s circle back on that in a few years and see how BS you think it all is at that point.

 

[425cougfan]

My only comment about the politicization of the virus is that I find it laughable that some hold the delusion that one side or the other is not doing it. Both parties are trying to use this pandemic for their own benefit and it's kind of disgusting.

I kind of wonder about the comments like, "the media has a vendetta against Trump and is seeking to get him out of office". For me, I've always seen him as the worst example of what a person should aspire to be. He fails as a human being in every single way except for making money at the expense of others. Everything that he does is only for his own personal gain and glorification. I don't disagree with the notion that the media is actively trying to discourage people from voting for Trump, but the thing is.......I can't see why anyone wants him in office unless they support racism and selfishness. In the past sixteen years with Democrats as President, there have been no recessions and we've experienced good overall stock market growth. Unemployment dropped throughout both the tenures of Clinton and Obama.

I'm not a fan of a lot of liberal policies and there is danger in too much "progressive" thinking, but man, it's hard to be proud to be a Republican right now.

Some time as a more general matter, I may have some thoughts to share as to how much of your view seems driven by being around a bunch of right-wing morons in Kansas, Flat. I don't mean it in a critical way, it's just interesting to me in view of some of my own life experiences. I'm loathe to air too much on here given some past behavior we've seen by some forum participants, but one might say I've been in the opposite position, having spent a lot of time in a different political extreme, and seeing their tactics and revolting behavior pushed me very far away from that extreme, even though I had viewed myself as leaning that way previously. I still consider myself in the middle but find myself -- quite oddly, I must say, since I dislike Trump and don't agree with numerous policies on his side of the aisle - having to argue against the nonsense on the other side. It's just interesting to see your political views in the context of what sounds like your having to deal with a right-leaning extreme.

As to the topic at hand, I can only speak for myself, but I'm just anti-BS and anti-lies. It's problematic for the media to be rooting for anyone and purposefully misleading people. It's one thing for it to be used to paint the edges and to inform reporting unconsciously (even though a lack of ideological diversity *should* be viewed with great concern and skepticism in institutions like media, academia, and science). It's quite another matter when it drives their reporting and agenda completely. It's not just a product of Trump, either, although his divisiveness and the visceral reaction to everything he says or does makes it more extreme. Like my allusion to an alternative hypothetical previously, consider a world in which Mike Pence took over, just to take an easily accessible example off the top of my head. The media doesn't like his world view or policies either, and reporting of the activities of a Pence administration would be very similar. They just wouldn't have so much material to work with. Again, just think about it with an open mind. You really think the NYT, MSNBC, CNN, or even NPR, ABC, etc. wouldn't be handling him similarly? Of course they would. They don't like his positions on some key issues, even if his mannerisms and comportment are nothing like the orange man, and even though the orange man's mannerisms and comportment are used as the proffered justification for his treatment by these institutions who purportedly are just out there informing the public.

 

[dgibbons]

States doing their own thing was a horrible F’ing idea. A. The best analogy I heard which is 100% true is that it’s like having a no pissing section of a swimming pool. What good does it do for states to do their own thing when 250k people from every state can get on their motorcycle and congregate in close quarters for several days then go back to their state? There’s zero boundaries between states in America...which is awesome, but also an incredibly stupid way to manage a pandemic. 2. It politicized it from the first day they first started taking it seriously. You don’t politicize a national public health crisis.

Because North Dakota is different from New York.

 

[couginphx]

Its funny to me at times people criticize the "MSM" for their coverage of Trump, but Fox news is the most watched network in the country, and traditional local news (Sinclair), which is where many people still pick up their news, particularly the elderly, are slanted right, in some cases heavily. But that is viewed as the balance to the MSM, I guess I view it as the opposite.

I agree with those who say both sides of the aisle have major flaws, I think the GOP's are more blatant and horrific. I'd love for a prominent GOP'er to come out and say "Racism is a full stop for me, if you are racist, I don't want your vote, we are better than that." or "Those Q people are sick and delusional, and need help and we won't subscribe to that crap." but it will never happen because its a big enough chunk of their voting block that they massage and accept it, which tells me they are only interested in power.

We need to get rid of $$$ in politics. Term limits, you can be a senator for 2 terms and/or a Rep for 4, after that you are out, and you can't switch from one to the other w/o sitting out an election cycle. No one individual can donate more than $1,000 a year to a campaign, and campaigns can only accept donations from their constituents--none of this California Rep doing fund raising in Texas garbage, and we should set up a national database where anybody can view donations made and see how that money is being spent. Also, politicians can't join lobby groups once they are out of office for at least 5 years.

Election day should be a holiday, or on the weekend, or a week long, I'd almost support compulsory voting like some countries do (Australia)--maybe just add a "none of the above" option to the ballot for those who feel a non-vote is a statement.

None of this gerrymander crap, every ten years (post census) a panel of 10, 5 from each party gets 6 months to agree to district lines and if they don't, it reverts to an automated population/geography map, it will force compromise.

Anyway, I'll stop now.

 

[AlwaysSpokanesFault]

It's certainly entraining watching grown men getting their panties in a twist over mindless political tribalism. Banging your heads on your keyboards in only going to lead to CTE...

 

[kayak15]

You are right, I googled without looking closer and got "yellow pressed." Sorry. I hate all this political nonsense. The best way of conquering all of this would be putting the interest of the country first, not one's tribe/party affiliation. Sadly, a crisis like this only shows just how badly we are governed at all levels and parties. We need someone who can unite us and define our mission, instead we have a sad choice between two dotards in November.

It's only "yellow" press if the responsible "journalist" knew the difference between an annualized number and a quarterly report. Did they? I doubt it and, unlike you, they did not bother with the few minutes to investigate the matter. I can understand your error and I am sure that stretch can too. "Go, my son. Thy sins are forgiven. Oh, and try to be more careful about believing the blather of "journalists"."

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Honest question:

What do you think the rhetoric would (have) been if the Cheeto had come out and enacted an enforcable national mask mandate and/ or stay at home order? I'm imagining the cries of "fascism" would have been heard from NYC to LA, but that's just me.

Imho, states doing their own thing was the best idea, it was just poorly executed by some states. ND/ SD seem to be doing fine, didn't lock down, didn't need to due to their pop density. Would making them mask/ lock down seem right or necessary?

The main problem with the "cheeto" as you put it, is the absolute inconsistency in messaging nearly at every turn from the top. Against masks (via mocking of Biden wearing one), failing to model safety guidelines all the while contradicting CDC guidelines. Coming out in late March and early April with stipulations on how to safely reopen, and then advocating against those same guidelines being followed by Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia. In addition, holding close-contact gatherings and verbally minimizing the - either risks of catching or consequences of contracting covid followed by a "it is what it is" in reference to the total number of fatalities. And on top of that - massive misinformation and lies.

You can let the state's take the lead, but you need not rail against those same state's, attack the governors and coordinate a campaign to discredit members of your covid task force. Thats all i have to say about that.

 

[Coug90]

Because North Dakota is different from New York.

Did I mention S Dakota or you just cruising for likes as usual? Pretty obvious what I was referring to but in this case it doesn’t really matter. Sturgis is as good an example as any of why it’s stupid for national leadership to “let the states decide” on how to manage this. I can book a flight anywhere I want to in this country tomorrow. Pissing in the pool.

 

[dgibbons]

Did I mention S Dakota or you just cruising for likes as usual? Pretty obvious what I was referring to but in this case it doesn’t really matter. Sturgis is as good an example as any of why it’s stupid for national leadership to “let the states decide” on how to manage this. I can book a flight anywhere I want to in this country tomorrow. Pissing in the pool.

North Dakota and New York start with the same letter, yet are quite different. I thought it was self-explanatory. You may also have noticed that public health is administered on a state and regional basis.

 

[Coug90]

North Dakota and New York start with the same letter, yet are quite different. I thought it was self-explanatory. You may also have noticed that public health is administered on a state and regional basis.

Not on a national or world basis at all? What’s the purpose of the WHO then? Someone forgot to tell the pandemic to pay better attention to state, regional, and international boundaries I guess.

 

[Cougsocal]

You say that the data set is incomplete, then go on to make an argument for a statistical "burn out" based on same said data. What am i missing?

It is call a theory, not a clinically established fact. Sweden's once full hospitals are virtually empty. They don't social distance much, and haven't changed their practices. Asked to explain why this is, epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who heads their health policy, theorizes that multiple agents including natural resistance, anti body and T-cells development, appear to have led to a virus burn out. That theory also explains what is going on in the places (previously identified) hit particularly hard initially, and have virtually no death rate now. Now if these places have a second wave, the theory falls by the way side.

That is generally how science works. You start with a theory, then you test the merit of that theory. "Incomplete data" doesn't make a theory wrong, only not proven. Einstein only had incomplete data when he came up with the general theory of relativity. Its merit was only established years later.

 

[longtimecoug]

It is call a theory, not a clinically established fact. Sweden's once full hospitals are virtually empty. They don't social distance much, and haven't changed their practices. Asked to explain why this is, epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who heads their health policy, theorizes that multiple agents including natural resistance, anti body and T-cells development, appear to have led to a virus burn out. That theory also explains what is going on in the places (previously identified) hit particularly hard initially, and have virtually no death rate now. Now if these places have a second wave, the theory falls by the way side.

That is generally how science works. You start with a theory, then you test the merit of that theory. "Incomplete data" doesn't make a theory wrong, only not proven. Einstein only had incomplete data when he came up with the general theory of relativity. Its merit was only established years later.

you don't start with a theory, you start with a hypothesis

 

[random soul]

 

[dgibbons]

Not on a national or world basis at all? What’s the purpose of the WHO then? Someone forgot to tell the pandemic to pay better attention to state, regional, and international boundaries I guess.

If only there was some kind of world wide web of computer networks where things like the purpose of the WHO could be found. Are you related to CougEd?

https://www.who.int/about/what-we-do

Not much there about things like setting up field hospitals in hotzones, or what to do if say the Yakima hospital is in bankruptcy and there is a severe outbreak in the area. Sure be great to wait for the president or the UN Secretary-General or whoever to make decisions like that from DC or NYC.

The "national leadership" thing is a nonsensical media talking point.

 

[FnuLnu]

If only there was some kind of world wide web of computer networks where things like the purpose of the WHO could be found. Are you related to CougEd?

https://www.who.int/about/what-we-do

Not much there about things like setting up field hospitals in hotzones, or what to do if say the Yakima hospital is in bankruptcy and there is a severe outbreak in the area. Sure be great to wait for the president or the UN Secretary-General or whoever to make decisions like that from DC or NYC.

The "national leadership" thing is a nonsensical media talking point.

CougEd will argue the problem with the WHO is that Pete Townshend recruited too many drummers

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

CougEd will argue the problem with the WHO is that Pete Townshend recruited too many drummers

Yes? And?

I mean, that's a pretty valid point.

 

[Cougsocal]

you don't start with a theory, you start with a hypothesis

A distinction without meaningful difference, though as there is some supporting data here, a dramatic decline in infections and death counts, it is truly a theory.

 

[Coug90]

If only there was some kind of world wide web of computer networks where things like the purpose of the WHO could be found. Are you related to CougEd?

https://www.who.int/about/what-we-do

Not much there about things like setting up field hospitals in hotzones, or what to do if say the Yakima hospital is in bankruptcy and there is a severe outbreak in the area. Sure be great to wait for the president or the UN Secretary-General or whoever to make decisions like that from DC or NYC.

The "national leadership" thing is a nonsensical media talking point.

Other than being up to your eyeballs in BS on both matters you make some great points!

 

[Stretch 74]

Its funny to me at times people criticize the "MSM" for their coverage of Trump, but Fox news is the most watched network in the country, and traditional local news (Sinclair), which is where many people still pick up their news, particularly the elderly, are slanted right, in some cases heavily. But that is viewed as the balance to the MSM, I guess I view it as the opposite.

I agree with those who say both sides of the aisle have major flaws, I think the GOP's are more blatant and horrific. I'd love for a prominent GOP'er to come out and say "Racism is a full stop for me, if you are racist, I don't want your vote, we are better than that." or "Those Q people are sick and delusional, and need help and we won't subscribe to that crap." but it will never happen because its a big enough chunk of their voting block that they massage and accept it, which tells me they are only interested in power. *****The GOP's "major flaws" are likely only worse to you because you are are a liberal. That's just the way things go. As for me, I have been saying for years that I wished there was a box we could check at voting time that said "THROW ALL OF THE BASTARDS OUT". Seriously, I could go for that. That attitude, IMO, is a big reason why Trump was elected- so many of us are sick of all the establishment bullshit in DC, the lying, the double dealing, the insider privilege, having standards for all of us that the power brokers there don't have to live by.

As for all the common use of the term "racism", I don't think most people understand what the term really means. Per Miriam Webster:

• a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Do you REALLY think that this is what the GOP stands for, that half of the country really believes that? Perhaps you need to be reminded that it was the Republican party that pushed to free the slaves through the Civil War while the Democrats resisted it. It was the R's that voted in the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act much more so than the D's.

And an alert to all those out there that refer to the southern border wall as racist because it works to keep out the Latinos in Mexico and other countries to the south......Latino is a culture, and NOT a race.

We need to get rid of $$$ in politics. Term limits, you can be a senator for 2 terms and/or a Rep for 4, after that you are out, and you can't switch from one to the other w/o sitting out an election cycle. No one individual can donate more than $1,000 a year to a campaign, and campaigns can only accept donations from their constituents--none of this California Rep doing fund raising in Texas garbage, and we should set up a national database where anybody can view donations made and see how that money is being spent. Also, politicians can't join lobby groups once they are out of office for at least 5 years. ***** Now here is where we reach some agreement. I would LOVE to get the bucks out of politics, and do some reforms to the process. I have had several thoughts on this for a long time:

• Term limits! All in favor of that. I say only one term ever, per the following-Senators get only one term, to be ten years in length. 20% of them will be elected on a two year cycle, starting with the most senior ones to get them gone first. Newest senators will be the last ones to be replaced by new ones.
• House reps will done in similar fashion, only one term ever, to be five years, with a 20% turnover every year.
• Once you serve a term in Congress, you will be barred from EVER working as a lobbyist. Too much conflict of interest there to allow that.
• Limiting it to one term means they don't have to sell out to raise funds for re-election campaigns.
• Start over with every voter data base in the country, make eligible voters prove their eligibility with photo ID. For those that say that is discriminating vs minorities, I say that is simply bullshit. That is just a condescending, patronizing attitude toward the minorities, claim that they can't do the same as everyone else and provide ID. I have seen studies that show blacks and Latinos both support a requirement for showing ID to be eligible to vote.
• Definitely limit donation levels, but haven't put a number on it in my head yet.
• Get PAC's under control. Every PAC must FULLY identify all investors and officers. COMPLETE transparency is a must.

Election day should be a holiday, or on the weekend, or a week long, I'd almost support compulsory voting like some countries do (Australia)--maybe just add a "none of the above" option to the ballot for those who feel a non-vote is a statement. *****No mail in voting for all, absentee voting is fine with proper reasons. Maybe a five day window, Friday through Tuesday for polls to be open.

None of this gerrymander crap, every ten years (post census) a panel of 10, 5 from each party gets 6 months to agree to district lines and if they don't, it reverts to an automated population/geography map, it will force compromise. *****Hard to figure out how to limit this, and both sides do it whenever and wherever they are in the majority. I fear that what will end up is just a compromise where R's protect some districts and D's protect others and they both walk away happy knowing that their existing officials are protected. Do you have a lot of confidence that any computer algorithm to do the redistricting work is not biased one way or the other? I don't. Cynical old me.

Okay, sorry for getting so carried away, got to run now. The golf course is calling me!


Anyway, I'll stop now.

 

[CougEd]

Stretch....I probably would go a smidge further. Politicians will do anything to hold their seat. They clearly will sell their soul. I would have term limits for both the house and senate.

Second I would slowly roll out and stagger the supreme court appointments. They are so political these days, have a term of ten years.

Third, all money from special interests goes into one pot. Then each party splits it up.

Four-not sure why mail in balloting is a bad thing. Do you think Trump and his family had their absentee ballot compromised?

Five- the cop who sat on Floyd's neck that caused many to protest fits perfectly into the definition you offered up. " primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

You know when I was growing up one of my moms biggest worry when I left the house in my car is that I had clean underwear on. Her concern if I was ever in an accident that had clean cloths on. On the surface it is a chuckle. Now ask a mother of color when their son leaves the house and goes out in the car if they have the same benign (and asinine) concerns as my mom did. I think you would be surprised what their concerns would be.

 

[CougEd]

CougEd will argue the problem with the WHO is that Pete Townshend recruited too many drummers

Not at all...I would tell you I never owned one of the Who's albums.

 

[dgibbons]

View embedded media

Correlation not causation. More dead people doesn't mean they died from Covid.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Correlation not causation. More dead people doesn't mean they died from Covid.

Gib, true as stated. But in the absence of any other compelling changes in circumstances, it is not out of bounds to assume causation from correlation. That is, after all, how most hypotheses are formed. Does not guarantee the hypothesis is correct, but it is the logical place to start.

 

[fingerdisco]

Correlation not causation. More dead people doesn't mean they died from Covid.

Similarly, people recovering from covid after taking hydroxychloroquine doesn’t mean it cured them

 

[dgibbons]

Gib, true as stated. But in the absence of any other compelling changes in circumstances, it is not out of bounds to assume causation from correlation. That is, after all, how most hypotheses are formed. Does not guarantee the hypothesis is correct, but it is the logical place to start.

It seems like it wouldn’t be hard to tabulate the data. Heart disease might be iffy, but everything among the leading causes of death would seem to be easy to identify as non-Covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

 

[kayak15]

Stretch....I probably would go a smidge further. Politicians will do anything to hold their seat. They clearly will sell their soul. I would have term limits for both the house and senate.

Second I would slowly roll out and stagger the supreme court appointments. They are so political these days, have a term of ten years.

Third, all money from special interests goes into one pot. Then each party splits it up.

Four-not sure why mail in balloting is a bad thing. Do you think Trump and his family had their absentee ballot compromised?

Five- the cop who sat on Floyd's neck that caused many to protest fits perfectly into the definition you offered up. " primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

You know when I was growing up one of my moms biggest worry when I left the house in my car is that I had clean underwear on. Her concern if I was ever in an accident that had clean cloths on. On the surface it is a chuckle. Now ask a mother of color when their son leaves the house and goes out in the car if they have the same benign (and asinine) concerns as my mom did. I think you would be surprised what their concerns would be.

Some decent thoughts, Ed, but I can see some problems with most.

Term limits is an idea that has been around for a few decades. There is, however, some merit to having experience in legislatures. A collection of newbys may not realize the reasoning behind an existing piece of legislation. Agriculture bill such-and-such may have been enacted after extensive consideration and compromise. A new kid on the block will not know the ins and outs of this and not realize that a particular subset of the bill has been included to give ranchers in Kentucky a fair shake. Inexperienced legislators may stumble over portions of the law and perhaps make mistakes resulting in hordes of lawyers tying up the system. An ideal scenario would have people well versed in the legislative process and history but without using their seniority to bend legislation in their direction. Doesn't happen as we all know. Term limits would alleviate that problem but would come with problems of their own.

Having annual or semiannual fights over Supreme Court nominations would be appalling. Many of the appointed justices have their ideological bent moderated over time. Kennedy, a Bush appointee, is now giving conservatives fits. The Warren court outraged Republicans on a steady basis. Warren was nominated by Eisenhower. Perhaps a twenty year appointment would work but we need to be careful to maintain the separation of the legislative and judiciary branches of the federal government. This would, I believe, require a constitutional amendment and that is another fracas in the making.

All campaign donations go into one pot? Not gonna happen. These donors aren't contributing out of the kindness of their little hearts but in order to have ready access to the recipient and preferential treatment. Sad but true. Anonymous contribution towards the electoral process is not going the appeal to them. Maybe these big guys should be restricted from these activities in the first place but SCOTUS has ruled that it is an infringement of their free speech. There it is. A single pot is a nice idea but doesn't synchronize with reality.

Mail-in balloting is fine with me, Except, of course, for the "hanging chads" issue that threw the Bush-Gore election into a tizzy. Not in our lifetime perhaps but I can foresee a day when electronic voting takes place. Would need to be hacker-proof but if that can be achieved then our descendants will be voting via the internet.

The Floyd death may well have been due to racism. I will not argue the point. That said, I look at it from a different perspective. I am no criminal justice authority but it appeared to me to have been piss-poor police work. One doesn't need a sledgehammer to pound home a tack. If the police on the scene had arrested Floyd with a degree of moderation and tact, the guy would be alive today. Wouldn't matter if they were all card carrying members of the local Klan. Cut the "I'm in charge here" macho arrogance and just do the job right.

Sorry to differ with you, Ed, just see a few complications with your suggestions. Agree fully with your comments concerning the attitude relationships between the black community and our national police departments. Especially regarding young black males.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The problem that we have with racism is that we’ve made huge strides since the 1950’s but that there is still an “us vs them” divide that exists on both sides that we all pretend doesn’t exist.

All BS aside, the majority of white people that I’ve met in my life view black people as “different” than white people and there’s this notion that they have to be treated differently. Sometimes, it’s downright racist. “They are thieves, drug users, criminals, dumber than whites, etc”.

unfortunately, black people contribute to the problem by demanding that they be celebrated for their differences, some that clearly clash with being considered professional or respectable. A white dude with saggy pants, ill-fitting or mismatched clothes, janky hair and tats all over isn’t going to get hired by my company but we’re supposed to look at a person of color and overlook that.

On top of that, because of the centuries of abuse, young black men in particular are just more likely to commit petty crimes. When I was 10, my bike was stolen by a black kid that I was nice to. The vast majority of time, when drugs or violent crime offenses occur where I live, it’s a person of color involved. Of course, the way that people are treated in life promotes that. We have a chicken and egg problem on how to reduce crime amongst minorities that nobody can seem to figure out.

A big first step is to finally get cops from being abusive assholes towards black men. Every time I see someone say or type “it might be racist”.....I think, “F#ck you, you know it’s racist but you just aren’t willing to confront it”. It’s true that there is a “Respect Mah Ailuthoritah!” problem in our police force, but there’s a bigger problem where cops are forgiven for being assholes as long as it’s a black person being harassed or killed.

Every time I see someone defend the cop that murdered Philando Castille, it makes me want to get a club and beat that person like a baby seal. People are too quick to assume that a black man deserved it.

So many problems in our country, but abusive cops is the most visible symptom and fixing that is a good place to start.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The problem that we have with racism is that we’ve made huge strides since the 1950’s but that there is still an “us vs them” divide that exists on both sides that we all pretend doesn’t exist.

All BS aside, the majority of white people that I’ve met in my life view black people as “different” than white people and there’s this notion that they have to be treated differently. Sometimes, it’s downright racist. “They are thieves, drug users, criminals, dumber than whites, etc”.

unfortunately, black people contribute to the problem by demanding that they be celebrated for their differences, some that clearly clash with being considered professional or respectable. A white dude with saggy pants, ill-fitting or mismatched clothes, janky hair and tats all over isn’t going to get hired by my company but we’re supposed to look at a person of color and overlook that.

On top of that, because of the centuries of abuse, young black men in particular are just more likely to commit petty crimes. When I was 10, my bike was stolen by a black kid that I was nice to. The vast majority of time, when drugs or violent crime offenses occur where I live, it’s a person of color involved. Of course, the way that people are treated in life promotes that. We have a chicken and egg problem on how to reduce crime amongst minorities that nobody can seem to figure out.

A big first step is to finally get cops from being abusive assholes towards black men. Every time I see someone say or type “it might be racist”.....I think, “F#ck you, you know it’s racist but you just aren’t willing to confront it”. It’s true that there is a “Respect Mah Ailuthoritah!” problem in our police force, but there’s a bigger problem where cops are forgiven for being assholes as long as it’s a black person being harassed or killed.

Every time I see someone defend the cop that murdered Philando Castille, it makes me want to get a club and beat that person like a baby seal. People are too quick to assume that a black man deserved it.

So many problems in our country, but abusive cops is the most visible symptom and fixing that is a good place to start.

I can confidently say that my experience with white peoples views on blacks is completely opposite of your experience. Ive encountered people with mostly negative views, but they are by far the minority. This is in the face of the most recent rhetoric that Oregon was founded as a racist safe-haven and is still largely racist today. And theyre not meaning latently racist, they mean full blown, white hood wearing, confederate flag waving, "blacks are sub-humans" racists. Youd think that in 23 yrs of living here and with my jobs being customer facing I would have ran into one of these people, but i havent.

If youre here to tell me conservative white middle America is racist then i am deeply saddened, because that means we do have a legitimate race issue.

As to the policing problem, its not racist abusive cops per se; its that they are being trained that the population at large are enemy combatants. There are more unarmed white men killed by police every year than unarmed black men (yes, I know the percentages). The point being, its not necessarily a white/ black thing with cops killing citizens. Daniel Shaver should still be alive - that was a fcking execution if I ever saw one. If you've not seen the video, do yourself a favor and skip it because it'll make you ill, literally. Those cops were not found guilty. When you have a system that allows your police force to kill with impunity, guess whats going to happen: your rate of police shootings is going to increase. Body cams have helped, but for some reason not every department has adopted them, and some who have don't force officers to wear them/ turn them on.

 

[79COUG]

I was born in Arkansas, my family moved to the Wenatchee area when I was a kid in the 60's to pick fruit. Before there were Hispanic migrant workers there Arkys and Okeys. We were the ones looked down upon as second class, uneducated, ignorant and dirty people. My birth father was a hard core, N-word using racist to the core. My mother was and is just the opposite. She threw his ass out when I was 11. I was raised by a stepfather from "The Greatest Generation"... 30 year Navy vet who served on ships in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. He didn't have a racist bone in his body. I have in-laws, nieces and nephews of color. Our family is a true melting pot. Throughout my career I've worked with great people and ass-hats of all colors. A big part of how our society views race, in my opinion, lies squarely on the shoulders of our parents and how we've been raised. Like many posters here, I'm in my late 50's looking at 60 squarely in the eye. It's my hope that the generations upcoming will truly be "color blind". Unfortunately because of past wrongs there are certain groups of society that now want to differentiate themselves and their "rights" because of color. That's not what being anti-racist is all about, in my opinion. Until we get to that color-blind state of looking at things, as my family has become, we're doomed for there to be a continuing divide in this country.

 

[kougkurt]

I was born in Arkansas, my family moved to the Wenatchee area when I was a kid in the 60's to pick fruit. Before there were Hispanic migrant workers there Arkys and Okeys. We were the ones looked down upon as second class, uneducated, ignorant and dirty people. My birth father was a hard core, N-word using racist to the core. My mother was and is just the opposite. She threw his ass out when I was 11. I was raised by a stepfather from "The Greatest Generation"... 30 year Navy vet who served on ships in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. He didn't have a racist bone in his body. I have in-laws, nieces and nephews of color. Our family is a true melting pot. Throughout my career I've worked with great people and ass-hats of all colors. A big part of how our society views race, in my opinion, lies squarely on the shoulders of our parents and how we've been raised. Like many posters here, I'm in my late 50's looking at 60 squarely in the eye. It's my hope that the generations upcoming will truly be "color blind". Unfortunately because of past wrongs there are certain groups of society that now want to differentiate themselves and their "rights" because of color. That's not what being anti-racist is all about, in my opinion. Until we get to that color-blind state of looking at things, as my family has become, we're doomed for there to be a continuing divide in this country.

Dang, I was born in Malvern

 

[Stretch 74]

I was born in Arkansas, my family moved to the Wenatchee area when I was a kid in the 60's to pick fruit. Before there were Hispanic migrant workers there Arkys and Okeys. We were the ones looked down upon as second class, uneducated, ignorant and dirty people. My birth father was a hard core, N-word using racist to the core. My mother was and is just the opposite. She threw his ass out when I was 11. I was raised by a stepfather from "The Greatest Generation"... 30 year Navy vet who served on ships in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. He didn't have a racist bone in his body. I have in-laws, nieces and nephews of color. Our family is a true melting pot. Throughout my career I've worked with great people and ass-hats of all colors. A big part of how our society views race, in my opinion, lies squarely on the shoulders of our parents and how we've been raised. Like many posters here, I'm in my late 50's looking at 60 squarely in the eye. It's my hope that the generations upcoming will truly be "color blind". Unfortunately because of past wrongs there are certain groups of society that now want to differentiate themselves and their "rights" because of color. That's not what being anti-racist is all about, in my opinion. Until we get to that color-blind state of looking at things, as my family has become, we're doomed for there to be a continuing divide in this country.

**************************

You just used a term that I have been thinking a lot about lately, but that I haven't seen used by anyone in the media, or even anywhere, for a long while. It is a term I learned about in school, a term that described America. That term is "Melting Pot". People from around the world would come to America and learn about our country and become an integral part of it, learning about our country and melting into it. Unfortunately, it seems that these days there is much less melting together and much more attempting to be separate within.

As we in America moved past the use of Negro and the ugly permutation of that word, black became the accepted label of those of the Negroid race, which seemed like a reasonable description comparable to using white to describe those of the Caucasoid race. But for some reason, many started to push African American instead of black, even though the vast majority were not born in Africa or even visited Africa. I am finding myself starting to hate that. Now before you jump all over me and use the overused term of racist, please note I am talking simply about the use of the term African American and in no way talking about hating the people.

So why would someone hate that term, you might ask? I'll tell you why-it is divisive! I also don't want any other divisive terms used like Asian American, Mexican American or Latino American, Irish American, Italian American, Russian American, Chinese American, Iranian American, Cuban American, and so on, and so on, and so on. The more these terms get used, the more divided we become as a country. How about just being American? That is what I want to get to. I am convinced that people will be accepted much more easily if they just identify themselves as American, not as some hyphenated sub-group.

Come on, people-let's get together. Meld into one country. Sure people are different, but if everyone within our borders identifies primarily as American we will be much stronger, much better off.

There is an old saying that I think is more true today than ever........UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

**************************

You just used a term that I have been thinking a lot about lately, but that I haven't seen used by anyone in the media, or even anywhere, for a long while. It is a term I learned about in school, a term that described America. That term is "Melting Pot". People from around the world would come to America and learn about our country and become an integral part of it, learning about our country and melting into it. Unfortunately, it seems that these days there is much less melting together and much more attempting to be separate within.

As we in America moved past the use of Negro and the ugly permutation of that word, black became the accepted label of those of the Negroid race, which seemed like a reasonable description comparable to using white to describe those of the Caucasoid race. But for some reason, many started to push African American instead of black, even though the vast majority were not born in Africa or even visited Africa. I am finding myself starting to hate that. Now before you jump all over me and use the overused term of racist, please note I am talking simply about the use of the term African American and in no way talking about hating the people.

So why would someone hate that term, you might ask? I'll tell you why-it is divisive! I also don't want any other divisive terms used like Asian American, Mexican American or Latino American, Irish American, Italian American, Russian American, Chinese American, Iranian American, Cuban American, and so on, and so on, and so on. The more these terms get used, the more divided we become as a country. How about just being American? That is what I want to get to. I am convinced that people will be accepted much more easily if they just identify themselves as American, not as some hyphenated sub-group.

Come on, people-let's get together. Meld into one country. Sure people are different, but if everyone within our borders identifies primarily as American we will be much stronger, much better off.

There is an old saying that I think is more true today than ever........UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!

As I've grown older and wiser I've realized that many of the terms used in the race arena are purposely and specifically divisive. This is nothing new, and I'm not quite sure what the end game is.

Equality warriors want to address innate and/or systemic inequality, but they come to the table with the accusatory and pejorative term "white priveledge." Most white people i know immediately turn their ears and brain of the when they hear this term so effectively it's a non-starter. These are presumably smart people who are driving the conversation, so why coin a divisive term to describe a highly nuanced societal dynamic when it's going to alienate the one specific group you need to hear the message? That's a rhetorical question of course; it's not about finding solutions, it's about creating division. Not that the issues aren't there and need to be addressed, but the people carrying the divisive banners aren't moving the conversation forward, but actually quite the opposite.