Beaver believer

[Coug4life34]

Except the don't. A garage full of trophies prove otherwise. At one point off my last squad, there were six kids playing college ball - one played professionally overseas as well and is now coaching as a GA. From one school.

And Tanner Groves never dropped 35 on us, I can assure you that.

The 'elite' AAU squads were simple to beat.

I’m not going to have a measuring contest with you about success..You would lose.. I am not talking about your school. I am talking about basketball as a whole.. Any coach anywhere can have success teaching one way of basketball if they have basketball players that they have trained over years to fit that style.. I think that’s fairly obvious and based on your “trophies” you should know that...I’m calling BS on your elite AAU teams being easy to beat..
And your mention of a player like Tanner Groves having never scored 35 on you proves the point. You either game planned to limit his scoring or he had a bad game.. That’s like saying I’ve never been dunked on... Then I guess you’ve never played anybody?!

 

[Coug4life34]

We'll agree to disagree. A decade plus in the AAU world tells me otherwise.

It was almost too easy to compete with the 'elite' squads with a little bit of brains and fundies mixed in. Opponents couldn't or wouldn't adjust to what was thrown at them. Stupid stuff like play zone if the ball goes to the right, play man if it goes left. It was comical at times.

if they couldn't ball screen/drive/kick, totally lost.

I can agree with what you are saying here for sure..by the way, Against some AAU teams it is comical.. I wouldn’t consider those elite teams though.. By the way I was in AAU hall since the beginning about 35 years now.. I remember when Vaccaro used to open the gyms in Los Angeles for us. Games with Lute Olson and John Thompson behind our bench or at our practices.. So I’ve seen a little bit too... Evolution sir, that’s all I’m saying..

 

[Coug4life34]

Except the don't. A garage full of trophies prove otherwise. At one point off my last squad, there were six kids playing college ball - one played professionally overseas as well and is now coaching as a GA. From one school.

And Tanner Groves never dropped 35 on us, I can assure you that.

The 'elite' AAU squads were simple to beat.

By the way, shout to you my friend. Never any disrespect intended. Extremely fun to talk hoops with people who get it.. Here’s to cougar basketball and a virtual beer from me to you..

 

[jourdand]

were

You are again as usual misrepresenting what I said, meant

Not misrepresenting what you said just pointing out blatant errors lol. For instance Duke was runner up national champs, in the sweet sixteen and in the final four the 3 years before Christian arrived at Duke. He was not in the same class as Hurley and he played in the final four all four years of his college career. So again I ask if our freshmen are better than them and the Duke team would crush todays teams why didn’t we win more games?
Oh and by the way it is those elite AAU teams you talk about that just grab the top players and then roll the ball out and play rat ball! Relying on and often eroding basketball skills taught by real coaches, not former NBA players who want to have good teams without putting in the work!

 

[Observer11]

By the way, shout to you my friend. Never any disrespect intended. Extremely fun to talk hoops with people who get it.. Here’s to cougar basketball and a virtual beer from me to you..

No worries - I've coached against Tanner's teams about a half dozen times. Didn't do anything special or scheme to shut him down. It also helped having 6-6, 6-7 and 6-9 to throw at him - two of which could get and defend on the perimeter.

And high school Tanner isn't the same as college senior Tanner. He's put in the hours to build strength.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Hurly, and Laetner, and Grant Hill, etc, when they were FRESHMAN, the previous, the last 1,2 years before Laetner, Hurly were FRESHMAN, Duke went 14-16.

At that point, I am said that Hurly and Laetner, COMING OUT OF HIGHSCHOOL, were not as ATHLETIC, SKILLED, TALENTED, ON PAPER, as EFE, DISCHON, Koulibaly, AJ, Bamba, Rosario, were, when they came out of highschool, etc, ON PAPER.

IF EFE, DISCHON, KOULIBALY, BAMBA, ROSARIO, AJ, as FRESHMAN, were to play Laetner, Hurly, as FRESHMAN, without Coach K, they would beat the freshmen Laetner, Hurly, etc.

The Junior, Senior Laetner, Hurly, Grant Hill, Coach K of Duke team that had 30 wins, won the NCAA championship, would crush today's Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four, etc. Some of that is on Laetner, Hurly, but a LOT of that is what Coach K of Duke, taught, developed, coached.

The freshman, Sophmore Laetner, Hurly, would NOT beat Todays Sweet 16/Elite 8/Final four teams. In fact most to almost all of todays NIT/NCAA tourny teams would probably beat the freshmen/Soph Laetner, Hurly.

You are again as usual misrepresenting what I said, meant.

Mik...I agree with your overall premise...and I think Jourdand stated it very well...but you ruin a pretty good argument with your wildly skewed "facts."

Laettner made it to 4 straight final fours. Our players don't belong in the same breath as Laettner...and I hated the guy.

Also, Shaq's teams weren't all that good.

As much as I hated those Duke teams, the only teams that could come close in the last 10-15 years or so are those Florida teams that won it back to back.

 

[mikalalas]

Mik...I agree with your overall premise...and I think Jourdand stated it very well...but you ruin a pretty good argument with your wildly skewed "facts."

Laettner made it to 4 straight final fours. Our players don't belong in the same breath as Laettner...and I hated the guy.

Also, Shaq's teams weren't all that good.

As much as I hated those Duke teams, the only teams that could come close in the last 10-15 years or so are those Florida teams that won it back to back.

Dude, I remember back in 1989, 1990, 1991, one or 2 out of those 3 years back when I was in Highschool, that Duke was 14-16 for 1,2 years.

Then Laetner, and Hurly joined Duke after that. I might be misremembering, but I thought that Duke, Laetner, Hurly, their freshman year, went to the NCAA Tourny Sweet 16. And thats nothing to Snide at.

But even if Jourdand, and you are right, that they went to the Final Four.

That was more of a team, coach accomplishment, then a Laetner, Hurly accomplishment, during Laetner's, Hurly's freshman year, because they didnt show a lot of athleticism, etc. But they did show a lot of skill, talent, fubdamentals, that Coach K obviously taught them.

That Duke offense, defense, etc, wasnt awesome because ofvthe players, it was awesome because of Coach K's system, offense, defense, skills that he taught laetner, hurly, and because of GRANT HILL.

If you had taken away Grant Hill, and Coach K, and the Duke team, and put Laetner, Hurly as freshmen on some other team, like a bad team, or a bad coach, etc, they wouldnt be good. Whereas if you took Grant Hill, you could have put him on the worst team, and he would have been good.

Laetner, Hurly did develop, goto NBA, etc. But as they graduated from highschool, they really werent as good as Efe, Dischon, AJ, Bamba, Rosario.

If Efe, Dischon, AJ, Bamba, Rosario, back when they just graduated from highschool, could hop into a time machine, and travel back in time and play Laetner, Hurly, when they graduated from highschool, in a highschool gym, with NO COACH K, etc, EFE, Dischon, AJ, would have DESTROYED Laetner, and Bamba, Koulibaly, Rosario, would have OWNED, destroyed Hurly.

Now if a Efe, Dischon, AJ as College Seniors were to play Laetner as a College Senior, Laetner would CRUSH them.

And if Koulibaly, Bamba as college Seniors played a College senior Hurly, they would have lost to Hurly.

But Hurly, Laetner werent as good as freshman without Coach K, without Duke, and without Grant Hill.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Dude, I remember back in 1989, 1990, 1991, one or 2 out of those 3 years back when I was in Highschool, that Duke was 14-16 for 1,2 years.

Then Laetner, and Hurly joined Duke after that. I might be misremembering, but I thought that Duke, Laetner, Hurly, their freshman year, went to the NCAA Tourny Sweet 16. And thats nothing to Snide at.

But even if Jourdand, and you are right, that they went to the Final Four.

That was more of a team, coach accomplishment, then a Laetner, Hurly accomplishment, during Laetner's, Hurly's freshman year, because they didnt show a lot of athleticism, etc. But they did show a lot of skill, talent, fubdamentals, that Coach K obviously taught them.

That Duke offense, defense, etc, wasnt awesome because ofvthe players, it was awesome because of Coach K's system, offense, defense, skills that he taught laetner, hurly, and because of GRANT HILL.

If you had taken away Grant Hill, and Coach K, and the Duke team, and put Laetner, Hurly as freshmen on some other team, like a bad team, or a bad coach, etc, they wouldnt be good. Whereas if you took Grant Hill, you could have put him on the worst team, and he would have been good.

Laetner, Hurly did develop, goto NBA, etc. But as they graduated from highschool, they really werent as good as Efe, Dischon, AJ, Bamba, Rosario.

If Efe, Dischon, AJ, Bamba, Rosario, back when they just graduated from highschool, could hop into a time machine, and travel back in time and play Laetner, Hurly, when they graduated from highschool, in a highschool gym, with NO COACH K, etc, EFE, Dischon, AJ, would have DESTROYED Laetner, and Bamba, Koulibaly, Rosario, would have OWNED, destroyed Hurly.

Now if a Efe, Dischon, AJ as College Seniors were to play Laetner as a College Senior, Laetner would CRUSH them.

And if Koulibaly, Bamba as college Seniors played a College senior Hurly, they would have lost to Hurly.

But Hurly, Laetner werent as good as freshman without Coach K, without Duke, and without Grant Hill.

I honestly don't know where you are getting your info. I was in high school those years and they went to the Final four in 89 his Frosh yr.

Laettner schooled Alonzo Mourning as a Frosh and you will be hard pressed to find a more decorated player during a 4 yr career.

Stop with the WSU comparisons already. It is ridiculous.

I

 

[mikalalas]

I honestly don't know where you are getting your info. I was in high school those years and they went to the Final four in 89 his Frosh yr.

Laettner schooled Alonzo Mourning as a Frosh and you will be hard pressed to find a more decorated player during a 4 yr career.

Stop with the WSU comparisons already. It is ridiculous.

I

Laetner only schooled Alonzo Mourning, when Alonzo was a Frosh, because, AGAIN, Laetner had DUKE, COACH K, GRANT HILL to help him.

No doubt in my mind that if Alonzo were to have traveled back in time and played Laetner, the day Laetner graduated from Highschool, without Laetner's Highschool, AAU coaches, without Duke, without Coach K, without Grant Hill, and Alonzo would have DESTROYED, OWNED Laetner, ONE ON ONE.

 

[mikalalas]

I honestly don't know where you are getting your info. I was in high school those years and they went to the Final four in 89 his Frosh yr.

Laettner schooled Alonzo Mourning as a Frosh and you will be hard pressed to find a more decorated player during a 4 yr career.

Stop with the WSU comparisons already. It is ridiculous.

I

Well like I said, I could be misremembering. Maybe it was 87,88 when Duke went 14-16. I just know that 1,2,3 years before Laetner, Hurly, Duke was 14-16, and that after that, Coach K and Grant Hill created the MACHINE that was Duke, that allowed Laetner, Hurly to thrive.

I dont think Laetner, Hurly would have thrived as well, without Coach K, Duke, Grant Hill.

Grant Hill made it so that couldnt just either man up or zone, and that greatly benefited both Laetner, Hurly.

Also if there is any question, doubt, etc, Laetner out of the 2 of Laetner, Hurly, might have been as good as your saying.

But HURLY absolutly without a doubt, as a highschool graduate, fresh out of highschool, would have been OWNED, SCHOOLED, DESTROYED, without Duke, Coach K, Grant Hill, Laetner, ONE ON ONE vs KOULIBALY.

Hurly was definetly a SLIGHTLY OVERRATED product of Duke, Coach K, Grant Hill, Laetner.

On another team, Hurly most definitely would not have done as well.

Also altho Hurly made the NBA, before his car accident that ended his NBA career, as it got started, Hurly got owned by almost all NBA guards, another sign that he was slightly overrated, and a product of Duke, Coach K, Grant Hill, Laetner.

 

[triscuit one]

Really not that hard to do...

Edit BTW Laetner's freshman year was 88-89 and Hurly was the following year. Maybe your thinking Danny Ferry?

Duke Blue Devils (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1980–present)​
1980–81	Duke	17–13	6–8	T–5th	NIT Quarterfinal
1981–82	Duke	10–17	4–10	T–6th
1982–83	Duke	11–17	3–11	7th
1983–84	Duke	24–10	7–7	T–3rd	NCAA Division I Round of 32
1984–85	Duke	23–8	8–6	T–4th	NCAA Division I Round of 32
1985–86	Duke	37–3	12–2	1st	NCAA Division I Runner-up
1986–87	Duke	24–9	9–5	3rd	NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1987–88	Duke	28–7	9–5	3rd	NCAA Division I Final Four
1988–89	Duke	28–8	9–5	T–2nd	NCAA Division I Final Four
1989–90	Duke	29–9	9–5	2nd	NCAA Division I Runner-up
1990–91	Duke	32–7	11–3	1st	NCAA Division I Champion
1991–92	Duke	34–2	14–2	1st	NCAA Division I Champion
1992–93	Duke	24–8	10–6	T–3rd	NCAA Division I Round of 32
1993–94	Duke	28–6	12–4	1st	NCAA Division I Runner-up
1994–95	Duke	9–3[n 2]	0–1[n 2]	[n 2]

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

certainly Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver reruns.

 

[triscuit one]

Forgot why we were comparing our team to a team 30 or so year ago..., but watching how well the pac 12 did / is doing in the this tournament along with how well our young guys did this year has me excited. Especially for our front court. If we can become a better shooting team, through transfer or hard work, and find a more "pure" pg I think next year could be very exciting.

 

[mikalalas]

certainly Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver reruns.

That's my point. If Kelvin Sampson's players: Benny Seltzer, Neil Derek, Terrence Lewis, etc, were on the same Duke team with Grant Hill, Coach K, and NO Laetner, and NO HURLY, or at Least if have 1 of them, then Laetner, NO HURLY, then that team would still have won it all.

That team was PLUG AND PLAY at its best.

That 91-92 Duke team that only had 2 losses and 30+ wins, would destroy any of the teams of the last 10 to 13 years or so.

And that wasnt because of Laetner, Hurly, that was because of COACH K's PLUG AND PLAY system, team, offense, defense, and the Skills, Development, that Coach K taught his players.

There is a reason why Coach K was a OLYMPIC coach.

There is a reason why I say that Coach K could turn WSU into a Elite 8 team.

Coach K is one of the best all time best coaches of all time.

And not because of only recruiting, or only because it was Duke, but because of his TEACHING, Development, Plug and Play, SYSTEM, X's and O's, to go along with his recruiting, and it being Duke.

That that 91-92 team would destroy any team over the last 10 to 13 years, shows that SKILL, TALENT, TEACHING, DEVELOPMENT, X's and O's, etc, to go along with recruiting, etc, TRUMPS today's greater ATHLETICISM, AAU RATBALL, etc, as that 91-92 team is not just a LEGENDARY player or Team, but is instead a LEGENDARY COACH in Coach K, and a LEGENDARY TEACHER, DEVELOPER, LEGENDARY SYSTEM, LEGENDARY X's and O's, LEGENDARY SKILLS, LEGENDARY TALENT, LEGENDARY FUNDAMENTALS, ETC, which Trumps Today's Legendary Athleticism, Legendary RATBALL, AAU, College teams, etc.

Also same thing about ANY of the Wooden Teams who would also destroy any of today's teams for the same reasons.

 

[mikalalas]

Forgot why we were comparing our team to a team 30 or so year ago..., but watching how well the pac 12 did / is doing in the this tournament along with how well our young guys did this year has me excited. Especially for our front court. If we can become a better shooting team, through transfer or hard work, and find a more "pure" pg I think next year could be very exciting.

The only 3 things this WSU team lacks, and can get, is a Steve Kerr like Sharpshooter that shoots 53% from 3 point range, and not only shoots that well, but is CLUTCH in big time moments.

Another thing is for the team to shoot 79.5% from the Freethrow line, and to also be clutch at the line.

And for a PURE Bobby Hurly, Stockton, Benny Seltzer like PURE PG who can drive, DISH, PASS, ASSIST, DRIBBLE, TAKE CARE OF BALL, NOT TURN OVER BALL, and defend the opposing team's PG, SG.

If WSU gets those 3 things in addition to the team WSU has now, then watchout, as that type of WSU team could easily make a NCAA Tourny run.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Laetner only schooled Alonzo Mourning, when Alonzo was a Frosh, because, AGAIN, Laetner had DUKE, COACH K, GRANT HILL to help him.

No doubt in my mind that if Alonzo were to have traveled back in time and played Laetner, the day Laetner graduated from Highschool, without Laetner's Highschool, AAU coaches, without Duke, without Coach K, without Grant Hill, and Alonzo would have DESTROYED, OWNED Laetner, ONE ON ONE.

Who cares about one on one.

A lot of people could probably beat Larry Bird at one on one.

I can only tell you what actually happenend...and I only brought it up because you were comparing WSU players to Christian Laettner.

 

[Coug1990]

Who cares about one on one.

A lot of people could probably beat Larry Bird at one on one.

I can only tell you what actually happenend...and I only brought it up because you were comparing WSU players to Christian Laettner.

Honestly, I doubt many people could have beaten Larry Bird, but I do understand the larger point you were making. The real reason why I am answering is did any of you hear about former Enumclaw High School player Brian Scalabrine? He had a nice 11-year NBA career as a backup. He currently does color for the Celtics. The other day, he was in a gym and a high school basketball player challenged him to go one-on-one. It didn't go well for the high school player.

 

[jourdand]

Laetner was second team all American coming out of high school and one of the most sought after recruits in the nation. 4 final fours in college plus 2 national championships, national college player of the year. 11 years in the NBA, first team all rookie team and 1 year as an all star. I really wish we had someone even close to him but we don’t.
Bobby Hurley (not in the same class) was first team parade all American, point guard on the tournament of champions winner which crowned the supposed high school national champion and was MVP of the McDonald’s all American game. 19 games in to his rookie year was the car crash. Up until that time he had started all 19 games and had averages of 7 points and 6 assists a game. Never was the same even though he played four more years in the NBA. Again I really really wish we had a player of this caliber but we don’t.

Also as a senior Laetner could never have played a freshmen Alonso Mourning! Not without that time machine you talk about because they were in the same class! Lol

 

[spongeandshoot]

Honestly, I doubt many people could have beaten Larry Bird, but I do understand the larger point you were making. The real reason why I am answering is did any of you hear about former Enumclaw High School player Brian Scalabrine? He had a nice 11-year NBA career as a backup. He currently does color for the Celtics. The other day, he was in a gym and a high school basketball player challenged him to go one-on-one. It didn't go well for the high school player.

View embedded media

Haha yeah I saw that the other day.

I learned a long time ago to never talk smack to the goofy looking dude at the gym. Now this
young man just went to the school of hard knocks....and lost his shoes to boot(pun intended)

 

[mikalalas]

Laetner was second team all American coming out of high school and one of the most sought after recruits in the nation. 4 final fours in college plus 2 national championships, national college player of the year. 11 years in the NBA, first team all rookie team and 1 year as an all star. I really wish we had someone even close to him but we don’t.
Bobby Hurley (not in the same class) was first team parade all American, point guard on the tournament of champions winner which crowned the supposed high school national champion and was MVP of the McDonald’s all American game. Again I really really wish we had a player of this caliber but we don’t.

You do realize, that back then, BBall is not like today. The reason why Laetner, and Hurly got all those accolades in high school:

1. They were probably in ELITE AAU EQUIVALENT BBALL CLUBS their whole lives, by their RICH parents.

2. Bball competition back then was such, that there were fewer good players to have to beat out.

In addition to point 1 above, that is another reason why.Laetner and Hurly had so many highschool accolades, awards, rankings, etc.

If Laetner, Hurly had played in today's highschool, AAU ball, they wouldnt have been as highly sought after, rated, etc.

3. There were a lot of Laetners/Hurly's who were just as highly sought after, ranked, etc, who did NOT pan out.

Why? Because they didnt have Grant Hill, Coach K, Duke, etc.

Duke, Coach K, Grant Hill MADE LAETNER, HURLY.

Laetner, Hurly were kind of Like Cowgil, Chris Henry, Casey Calvary, Lodwick, etc, in that they were LESS, NOT AS ATHLETIC, and were semi slower, not as fast laterally, didnt jump as high, etc, as other players.

What they did have was:

1. They had heart, soul.

2. They worked their azzes off. LUNCH PAIL.

3. They were very CRAFTY, SKILLED, TALENTED, GOOD SHOOTERS(Laetner had BACK TO BASKET POST SKILLS, and could shoot the 3, midrange, drive,etc)

Those good qualities were HONED by their ELITE RICH Club, highschool coaches, and by Coach K of Duke.

They were also EXTREMELY SMART, MADE EXTREMELY GOOD DECISION both with and without the ball in Bball, and off the court, in academics, and life(Part of the Reason those 2 DUKIE RICH BOYS went to Duke.

Make no mistake, if Laetner hadnt played back then, in RICH ELITE CLUBS, PRIVATE BBALL HIGHSCHOOLS, ETC. And if Laetner and Hurly hadnt gone to Duke, and not been coached by Coach K, they would not have ENDED UP AS GOOD.

Thats why I say that if take any 3.5 star, 4 star, 4.5 star, EXTREMELY NBA ESQUE FREAKISHLY ATHLETIC, and had them play Laetner or Hurly as High school Grad vs Highschool Grad, ONE ON ONE, WITHOUT the coaches, coach K, without Duke, etc, they woukd have OWNED, DESTROYED LAETNER, HURLY.

Also there was a reason why almost all the NBA PG, SG, etc, owned, outplayed Hurly, when Hurly made the NBA.

And the reason why, is that Hurly didnt have good athleticism, to go with his skills that he got from his club coaches, highschool coaches, and from Coach K.

If Cowgil, Henry, Lodwick, Witherill, etc, had played for the clubs that Laetner, Hurly had played on, and had played for the highschools that Laetner and Hurly had played for, and had played on Duke, with Grant Hill, and been coached by Coach K, then they would have probably been almost as good as Laetner, Hurly, ended up being.

If Hurly hadnt played for Duke, Benny Seltzer would have had Hurly for breakfast, owned, destroyed, schooled him, Hurly.

Hurly was definitely OVERRATED, and had a lot of help(Club, Highschool Coaches, Duke, Grant Hill, Coach K)

 

[jourdand]

Neither Laetner nor Hurley came from wealthy families and now your want to compare Bobby Hurley to Nick Witherill and Laetner to Cowgill. How many years did either of those play in the NBA? You just keep digging a bigger hole. You loose all credibility when you make these wild exaggerated claims, and please fact check before you post. Alonso Mourning was in the same class as Laetner all you had to do was google it.

 

[spongeandshoot]

You do realize, that back then, BBall is not like today. The reason why Laetner, and Hurly got all those accolades in high school:

1. They were probably in ELITE AAU EQUIVALENT BBALL CLUBS their whole lives, by their RICH parents.

2. Bball competition back then was such, that there were fewer good players to have to beat out.

In addition to point 1 above, that is another reason why.Laetner and Hurly had so many highschool accolades, awards, rankings, etc.

If Laetner, Hurly had played in today's highschool, AAU ball, they wouldnt have been as highly sought after, rated, etc.

3. There were a lot of Laetners/Hurly's who were just as highly sought after, ranked, etc, who did NOT pan out.

Why? Because they didnt have Grant Hill, Coach K, Duke, etc.

Duke, Coach K, Grant Hill MADE LAETNER, HURLY.

Laetner, Hurly were kind of Like Cowgil, Chris Henry, Casey Calvary, Lodwick, etc, in that they were LESS, NOT AS ATHLETIC, and were semi slower, not as fast laterally, didnt jump as high, etc, as other players.

What they did have was:

1. They had heart, soul.

2. They worked their azzes off. LUNCH PAIL.

3. They were very CRAFTY, SKILLED, TALENTED, GOOD SHOOTERS(Laetner had BACK TO BASKET POST SKILLS, and could shoot the 3, midrange, drive,etc)

Those good qualities were HONED by their ELITE RICH Club, highschool coaches, and by Coach K of Duke.

They were also EXTREMELY SMART, MADE EXTREMELY GOOD DECISION both with and without the ball in Bball, and off the court, in academics, and life(Part of the Reason those 2 DUKIE RICH BOYS went to Duke.

Make no mistake, if Laetner hadnt played back then, in RICH ELITE CLUBS, PRIVATE BBALL HIGHSCHOOLS, ETC. And if Laetner and Hurly hadnt gone to Duke, and not been coached by Coach K, they would not have ENDED UP AS GOOD.

Thats why I say that if take any 3.5 star, 4 star, 4.5 star, EXTREMELY NBA ESQUE FREAKISHLY ATHLETIC, and had them play Laetner or Hurly as High school Grad vs Highschool Grad, ONE ON ONE, WITHOUT the coaches, coach K, without Duke, etc, they woukd have OWNED, DESTROYED LAETNER, HURLY.

Also there was a reason why almost all the NBA PG, SG, etc, owned, outplayed Hurly, when Hurly made the NBA.

And the reason why, is that Hurly didnt have good athleticism, to go with his skills that he got from his club coaches, highschool coaches, and from Coach K.

If Cowgil, Henry, Lodwick, Witherill, etc, had played for the clubs that Laetner, Hurly had played on, and had played for the highschools that Laetner and Hurly had played for, and had played on Duke, with Grant Hill, and been coached by Coach K, then they would have probably been almost as good as Laetner, Hurly, ended up being.

If Hurly hadnt played for Duke, Benny Seltzer would have had Hurly for breakfast, owned, destroyed, schooled him, Hurly.

Hurly was definitely OVERRATED, and had a lot of help(Club, Highschool Coaches, Duke, Grant Hill, Coach K)

You have got to be kidding me.

As much as I liked Cowgill's hustle, he couldn't shoot and was not an offensive threat.

Same with Lodwick. The guy wouldn't have started anywhere else in the league...or even played for that matter.

I honestly can't believe you are making these comparisons.

 

[mikalalas]

Neither Laetner nor Hurley came from wealthy families and now your want to compare Bobby Hurley to Nick Witherill and Laetner to Cowgill. How many years did either of those play in the NBA? You just keep digging a bigger hole. You loose all credibility when you make these wild exaggerated claims, and please fact check before you post. Alonso Mourning was in the same class as Laetner all you had to do was google it.

Laetner may or may not have been overrated(I think he was, might have been overrated, despite his success)

But HURLY was DEFINITELY OVERRATED despite his success.

If Hurly had not gone to Duke, and if Benny Seltzer, Koulibaly, etc, as highschool graduates, were to have played Hurly as a Highschool Graduate, ONE ON ONE, without Any coaches, coaching, No Grant Hill, no Duke, no Coach K, then Benny Seltzer, Koulibaly would have Owned, destroyed, Schooled Hurly.

There is a reason why Hurly didnt do very good in the NBA against NBA PG's, etc, and thats because he was OVERRATED, and LACKED ATHLETICISM, SPEED, JUMPING, etc.

As far as comparison of Laetner to Cowgil, your right thats not a fair accurate comparison.

But Cowgil wasnt that bad, and has played PAID PRO BALL OVER SEAS, and had a shot at the NBA, even tho he didnt make it.

Gonzaga's Casey Calvary, was also used as a comparison.

The reason why xhose those 2, is because there are not a lot of KNOWN comparisables, at least not to me.

But Cowgil, Calvary, Laetner follow the same basic Prototype Template(PRE DUKE)

A White 6 ft 9.5 inch, 234 pound, semi somewhat laterally semi somewhat slower, semi less fast, less jumping ability, less athleticism(Not as athletic as Efe, Dischon, Shaq, Alonzo Mourning, Shawn Kemp, etc)(PRE DUKE)

What they had in common:

Smart, high Bball IQ, post skills, shooting skills, midrange to 3 point, can face up, drive, ok ball handlers.

The big difference between them is that Laetner DEVELOPED, went to Duke, had Duke, Grant Hill, Coach K to help him, and to DEVELOP him.

Calvary, Cowgil didnt develop as much and certainly didnt have as much help in having Duke, Grant Hill, Coach K Developing, helping them.

If Calvary, and Cowgil had gone to Duke, instead of WSU, Gonzaga, and Laetner had gone to WSU, instead of Duke, then Cowgil, Calvary would have probably ended up better, and Laetner probably wouldnt have ended up as good.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Constantly comparing white players to other white players or assuming they aren't as athletic as black players is a lazy stereotype and wrong. It's the equivalent of comparing black quarterbacks to other black quarterbacks or assuming they aren't as cerebral as a white quarterback. In both cases, it has proven to be untrue.

Laettner and Hurley were plenty athletic enough to be NBA players and great college performers.

Glad Cougar

 

[Observer11]

Laettner and Hurley are college hall of famers. Arguably Laettner deserves consideration among the top 10 all time. And I was in the hate Christian Laettner club for a long time.

Hurley just won. Too bad we never really saw what could have been at the next level due to the car wreck in Sacto

To argue against them as being anything but among the college game’s elite is just dumb.

 

[jourdand]

Both Laetner and Hurley were excellent players prior to ever stepping foot on the Duke campus or meeting coach K. That’s why they were recruit to Duke and not WSU they were some of the best high schoolers available at the time..

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]