Big Ten vs SEC

[royhobbs2]

Big Ten is looking good today. At Half Michigan over Alabama and Minnesota up on Auburn.

Ohio State should probably be in the MNC game if not for the no-catch/fumble call. OSU pissed the game away but was clearly the better team imo.

Im surprised a bit by there not being much of a gap between bigten and sec. How much of it is hype ?

 

[OrangeGravy]

I think the B1G has better teams in tier 2. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa are really solid.

 

[royhobbs2]

Big Ten has an argument for best conference imo. Which is surprising.
Iowa has the same recruits as WSU on paper-1 four star play a year, similar programs, just different approach. Ferentz is a very good coach.

I think Ohio State is the only team that can match up with LSU.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Big Ten has an argument for best conference imo. Which is surprising.
Iowa has the same recruits as WSU on paper-1 four star play a year, similar programs, just different approach. Ferentz is a very good coach.

I think Ohio State is the only team that can match up with LSU.

Iowa is good years and not so good years, just as you'd expect them too. They're never really bad though

 

[fingerdisco]

Big Ten has an argument for best conference imo. Which is surprising.
Iowa has the same recruits as WSU on paper-1 four star play a year, similar programs, just different approach. Ferentz is a very good coach.

I think Ohio State is the only team that can match up with LSU.

They’ve got DL Epenesa on their roster who’s a 5-star beast

 

[royhobbs2]

Iowa is good years and not so good years, just as you'd expect them too. They're never really bad though

no but they are solid. They have a small state 3 million people, and produce really good lineman and LBers and TEs. Wrestling is huge there and that helps imo.

Wisconsin is similar, great lineman, LBers, TEs FBs homegrown.

Id like to see WSU recruit inside LBers from Wisconsin and Iowa, their leftovers would be better than anything we see.

 

[royhobbs2]

They’ve got DL Epenesa on their roster who’s a 5-star beast

yea they get one in a blue moon, but I think they've had 4 four stars in four years which is about what wsu gets.

 

[OrangeGravy]

no but they are solid. They have a small state 3 million people, and produce really good lineman and LBers and TEs. Wrestling is huge there and that helps imo.

Wisconsin is similar, great lineman, LBers, TEs FBs homegrown.

Id like to see WSU recruit inside LBers from Wisconsin and Iowa, their leftovers would be better than anything we see.

OL has been pretty solid for us recently. It would be nice to just have bodies on defense that are P5 sized for their position. At least a few of them. This year it was dangerously close to looking like the past really bad years where it looked like 11 180lb guys out there trying to play D1 defense.

 

[Coug90]

no but they are solid. They have a small state 3 million people, and produce really good lineman and LBers and TEs. Wrestling is huge there and that helps imo.

Wisconsin is similar, great lineman, LBers, TEs FBs homegrown.

Id like to see WSU recruit inside LBers from Wisconsin and Iowa, their leftovers would be better than anything we see.

Defensive help is on the way from Indiana...Same idea, that guy is going to be a beast.

why stop at Wisconsin, the way this defense looked I’d love to see them get creative with recruiting and find some LB type rugby kids in Australia or NZ. Bennett’s used to recruit there in basketball, there’s gotta be some tough kids in the outback that would enjoy Pullman and like to tackle.

 

[chipdouglas]

Assuming Georgia wins tonight (it's 19-0 currently), the SEC has the best bowl record so far, and only the SEC has a winning bowl record against all other conferences it's played.

I agree though that the B10 is making a run this year at claiming to be the #1 or #2 top-half conference. Think about the top 6 or so:

• B10: tOSU, Penn State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Iowa
  • Bottom 3: Rutgers, Maryland, Northwestern (8 combined wins)
• SEC: LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Auburn, A&M
  • Bottom 3: Vandy, Arkansas, MS State, Carolina (9 combined wins - remember 4 OOC games though)

I still give the top half edge to SEC and bowl season is currently backing it up, but the gap has narrowed to to almost nothing. Major dropoff to subsequent conferences.

 

[fingerdisco]

My question is, when does Michigan get tired of Harbaugh and his 3-5 losses/year and annual pasting by The Ohio State and piss poor bowl record before they put a run at Fleck? They gotta be getting close to seeing that Harbaugh isn’t going to bring them back to the dominance they’re used to.

 

[royhobbs2]

Harbaugh is a great coach that has proven it at every level. Fleck isn't a better coach than Harbaugh.

It would be a big mistake to get rid of Harbaugh unless he has health issues/burnout imo.

 

[fingerdisco]

Harbaugh is a great coach that has proven it at every level. Fleck isn't a better coach than Harbaugh.

It would be a big mistake to get rid of Harbaugh unless he has health issues/burnout imo.

He’s averaging almost 4 losses (3.6) a year—that’s not gonna cut it for a team that prides itself at being the winningest program. Not to mention not beating OSU...that’s got to drive their fans even crazier. He’s a good—not great—coach.

 

[Coug90]

He’s averaging almost 4 losses (3.6) a year—that’s not gonna cut it for a team that prides itself at being the winningest program. Not to mention not beating OSU...that’s got to drive their fans even crazier. He’s a good—not great—coach.

Yeah Harbaughs a good coach but at some point accountability takes over and nobody from Michigan thinks he’s had a good run. His seat has to be warm right now.

 

[royhobbs2]

Rich Rodriguez (Big Ten Conference) (2008–2010)
2008 Rich Rodriguez 3–9 2–6 10th
2009 Rich Rodriguez 5–7 1–7 T–10th
2010 Rich Rodriguez 7–6 3–5 T–7th L Gator
Brady Hoke (Big Ten Conference) (2011–2014)
2011 Brady Hoke 11–2 6–2 2nd (Legends) W Sugar† 9 12
2012 Brady Hoke 8–5 6–2 2nd (Legends) L Outback 24
2013 Brady Hoke 7–6 3–5 5th (Legends) L Buffalo Wild Wings
2014 Brady Hoke 5–7 3–5 5th (East)
Jim Harbaugh (Big Ten Conference) (2015–Present)
2015 Jim Harbaugh 10–3 6–2 3rd (East) W Citrus 11 12
2016 Jim Harbaugh 10–3 7–2 3rd (East) L Orange† 10 10
2017 Jim Harbaugh 8–5 5–4 4th (East) L Outback
2018 Jim Harbaugh 10–3 8–1 T–1st (East) L Peach† 14 14
2019 Jim Harbaugh 9–4 6–3 3rd (East) L Citrus TB

 

[chipdouglas]

Yeah Harbaughs a good coach but at some point accountability takes over and nobody from Michigan thinks he’s had a good run. His seat has to be warm right now.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but those late season rivalry losses and bowl game meltdowns are eeerily familiar...

 

[royhobbs2]

Michigan is a blue blood program but going back to Lloyd Carr 13 years ago, they were pretty down with Rich Rod and Hoke. Im not a Michigan fan but they cant do any better than Harbaugh imo and they could do a lot worse. If he wins 9-10 games a year I cant see them getting rid of him anytime soon.

But Im sure the fans are starting to complain, his seat probably is getting warm. Ohio State had a great run with Jim Tressel then followed by Urban Meyer. Wisconsin and Iowa may be thorns in Michigans side.

 

[chipdouglas]

Michigan is a blue blood program but going back to Lloyd Carr 13 years ago, they were pretty down with Rich Rod and Hoke. Im not a Michigan fan but they cant do any better than Harbaugh imo and they could do a lot worse. If he wins 9-10 games a year I cant see them getting rid of him anytime soon.

But Im sure the fans are starting to complain, his seat probably is getting warm. Ohio State had a great run with Jim Tressel then followed by Urban Meyer. Wisconsin and Iowa may be thorns in Michigans side.

I agree it's not clear who they get who is an upgrade vs. Harbaugh. Harbaugh built Stanford, built the Niners, and now he wins all the games he should win and loses all the games he should lose. Who do you pick up who seems more surefire than JH?

tOSU's great "run" of Tressel and Urby is like a who's who of cheaters and win-at-all-costs coaches.

 

[Coug90]

Michigan is a blue blood program but going back to Lloyd Carr 13 years ago, they were pretty down with Rich Rod and Hoke. Im not a Michigan fan but they cant do any better than Harbaugh imo and they could do a lot worse. If he wins 9-10 games a year I cant see them getting rid of him anytime soon.

But Im sure the fans are starting to complain, his seat probably is getting warm. Ohio State had a great run with Jim Tressel then followed by Urban Meyer. Wisconsin and Iowa may be thorns in Michigans side.

I’m not saying they could or would do better either or they should, but it’s the kind of move a program like Michigan makes when they are seeing the overwhelming success of their rival who they consider themselves superior too (right or wrong). The bowl thrashings and piling up of losses to OSU has to be grating on their admin and big boosters.

 

[royhobbs2]

I just checked the recruiting rankings and Michigan is #12, where Ohio State is in the top 2 or 3 every year. 24/7 recruiting editor made the comment that Ohio State is light years ahead of the rest of the big ten in recruiting.

This is probably where you could see Alabama pull away in the second half. Michigan just cant match the depth of Alabama. Michigan is a 10-15 ranked team, that can be knocked off by top 20 teams Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Ohio State is a top 2 team, that matches up well with LSU.

 

[chipdouglas]

I just checked the recruiting rankings and Michigan is #12, where Ohio State is in the top 2 or 3 every year. 24/7 recruiting editor made the comment that Ohio State is light years ahead of the rest of the big ten in recruiting.

This is probably where you could see Alabama pull away in the second half. Michigan just cant match the depth of Alabama. Michigan is a 10-15 ranked team, that can be knocked off by top 20 teams Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Ohio State is a top 2 team, that matches up well with LSU.

Agree that depth makes a difference, but also consider that today, Alabama was missing their starting QB around whom they've built the last few seasons. Michigan led for something like 12 combined minutes and never pulled away like UA did despite missing its most important player. With Tua, Alabama would be in a better bowl.

 

[fingerdisco]

Michigan is a blue blood program but going back to Lloyd Carr 13 years ago, they were pretty down with Rich Rod and Hoke. Im not a Michigan fan but they cant do any better than Harbaugh imo and they could do a lot worse. If he wins 9-10 games a year I cant see them getting rid of him anytime soon.

But Im sure the fans are starting to complain, his seat probably is getting warm. Ohio State had a great run with Jim Tressel then followed by Urban Meyer. Wisconsin and Iowa may be thorns in Michigans side.

I mentioned Fleck earlier and you didn’t seem impressed with him. Took W Michigan from 1-11 to 13-1, and just went 11-2 at Minnesota and knocked off a decent Auburn team. He seems like an excellent coach that players love, so I could see him as the next Urban Meyer, or Ryan Day type.

 

[kayak15]

Michigan would do well to cast their eyes to the south, towards Nebraska, before jettisoning Harbaugh. The ,Huskers' fans grew tired of Solich putting good teams on the field but ones that were never quite the quality of the good ole days. Nebraska, with the exception of Pellini and that's another story, have never been the same. Michigan would do well, in my opinion, to try to get over the hump with what they currently have rather than cleaning house and starting over. That rarely works out well.

 

[royhobbs2]

Fleck is a really good coach. Hes turned Minnesota around and had a great year for them. I wouldn't take him over Harbaugh. Harbaugh was dominant in the NFL and for more than just a season. I wouldn't take Fleck over Harbaugh.

Ohio State is right there with Alabama and LSU right now, they are getting the 5 star kids.

 

[Coug90]

Fleck is a really good coach. Hes turned Minnesota around and had a great year for them. I wouldn't take him over Harbaugh. Harbaugh was dominant in the NFL and for more than just a season. I wouldn't take Fleck over Harbaugh.

Ohio State is right there with Alabama and LSU right now, they are getting the 5 star kids.

Maybe Harbaugh just needs to take the players on better vacations to get 5 stars. Europe...eh, take em to Australia or something!

 

[etowncoug]

Long time Michigan fans aren't thrilled about Harbaugh, but they are reluctant to replace him because there is no better candidate available. The Rich Rod era really left an impression on that fan base. He downplayed the schools tradition, did things his way, and had the worst record in school history. It was one of the worst coaching jobs I've ever seen. Hoke also failed.

Harbaugh has come in and been unable to win many big games, but he gets the tradition of the school and he's not going to run out terrible teams. He's a fiery competitor so I think he's more likely to desire a switch to the NFL than the alumni wanting him out.

Michigan's fan base learned the lesson from the worst coach in school history. You don't hear much complaining about Harbaugh not do you see people eager to point out all the bright spots in the Rich Rod era.

 

[royhobbs2]

Fan bases become unrealistic. As OGravy has said money rules and there are few programs that can get to the top and stay there. It may take a while but Ohio state will hit a rough patch just like Texas did and Michigan will come back up to a top 5 program.

im amazed at Miami The hurricanes are at about the mountain west level. They are awful. How damn hard is it to go out and hire a competent coach ?

 

[OrangeGravy]

Fan bases become unrealistic. As OGravy has said money rules and there are few programs that can get to the top and stay there. It may take a while but Ohio state will hit a rough patch just like Texas did and Michigan will come back up to a top 5 program.

im amazed at Miami The hurricanes are at about the mountain west level. They are awful. How damn hard is it to go out and hire a competent coach ?

I'm not sure, but I think Miami has other hurdles similar to other middling programs. They were nothing before that run in the 80's and pretty much came back to earth. I don't think they have much in the way of resources compared to the big programs outside of pool of talent in their own back yard. I'm not too sure they are any different than FIU/FAU/UCF/USF from a support/resources perspective.

 

[royhobbs2]

They are a private school so yea they probably can’t match the big boys financially. But for the love of Go* how can you have that much talent in your backyard and suck that bad ?

for the middling programs you can fall off a cliff in a hurry. Texas Tech is a good example. Texas is the richest school in the country at 250 million a year in revenue. They will be back on top quickly if they hire a coach. Ohio st is number Two in revenue

 

[dgibbons]

They are a private school so yea they probably can’t match the big boys financially. But for the love of Go* how can you have that much talent in your backyard and suck that bad ?

for the middling programs you can fall off a cliff in a hurry. Texas Tech is a good example. Texas is the richest school in the country at 250 million a year in revenue. They will be back on top quickly if they hire a coach. Ohio st is number Two in revenue

No margin for error. The HC hire, a bad class or two, a bunch of assistants bolt, you're in trouble.

 

[Coug90]

They are a private school so yea they probably can’t match the big boys financially. But for the love of Go* how can you have that much talent in your backyard and suck that bad ?

for the middling programs you can fall off a cliff in a hurry. Texas Tech is a good example. Texas is the richest school in the country at 250 million a year in revenue. They will be back on top quickly if they hire a coach. Ohio st is number Two in revenue

You are looking for a m Jimmy Lake comparison how about Manny Diaz. I agree they are sitting next to a wealth of talent and Miami has swag, they should be a perennial top 25 program.

 

[Glad Cougar]

I wonder if Miami in the next year or two comes after another alum– Mario Cristobal. He's a Florida guy & has a deep passion for his beloved Hurricane and is showing to be an exceptional recruiter with the UO Nike machine backing him up. I'm still not sold on his game day abilities but I'm certain Miami would be interested if he is. If it gets into a bidding war, UO will win, however.

Glad Cougar

 

[royhobbs2]

Miami has to be run by idiots(I have no idea if they are male or female), Diaz is basically a HS coach. His dad was the mayor so im sure politics was involved in his hire.

 

[fingerdisco]

Fan bases become unrealistic. As OGravy has said money rules and there are few programs that can get to the top and stay there. It may take a while but Ohio state will hit a rough patch just like Texas did and Michigan will come back up to a top 5 program.

im amazed at Miami The hurricanes are at about the mountain west level. They are awful. How damn hard is it to go out and hire a competent coach ?

Well Michigan certainly has resources—have you seen their IPF? It’s a palace:

 

[chipdouglas]

I'm not sure, but I think Miami has other hurdles similar to other middling programs. They were nothing before that run in the 80's and pretty much came back to earth. I don't think they have much in the way of resources compared to the big programs outside of pool of talent in their own back yard. I'm not too sure they are any different than FIU/FAU/UCF/USF from a support/resources perspective.

Also consider that Miami cheated their way to the top.

As Ole Miss shows, once the scam gets busted, mediocre programs come back down to earth.

 

[Coug90]

Also consider that Miami cheated their way to the top.

As Ole Miss shows, once the scam gets busted, mediocre programs come back down to earth.

There are a handful of schools who don’t have to. Pretty much everyone cheated their way to the top back in Miami’s hay day.

 

[Coug90]

Well Michigan certainly has resources—have you seen their IPF? It’s a palace:

The land and construction cost in Pullman we should have a similar IPF. The advantage of being rural...

 

[kougkurt]

Well Michigan certainly has resources—have you seen their IPF? It’s a palace:

Has anyone been inside UW’s. It’s amazing. Way better than Michigan

 

[chipdouglas]

There are a handful of schools who don’t have to. Pretty much everyone cheated their way to the top back in Miami’s hay day.

I don't believe in "everyone cheated." Even in baseball, 90s juicers knew 10 other guys who juiced and despite claiming "everyone was doing it," didn't realize the majority you never heard about played fair.

 

[random soul]

I don't believe in "everyone cheated." Even in baseball, 90s juicers knew 10 other guys who juiced and despite claiming "everyone was doing it," didn't realize the majority you never heard about played fair.

The only programs in the 1980s that seemed both fairly clean and consistently on top were Nebraska (coach looked the other way on some player behavior stuff, but nothing like what was going on in Norman) and Penn State (uh, yeah). I have no problem watching Miami beat up on Oklahoma in the mid '80s, or vice versa.