Big Ten vs SEC

[Coug90]

I don't believe in "everyone cheated." Even in baseball, 90s juicers knew 10 other guys who juiced and despite claiming "everyone was doing it," didn't realize the majority you never heard about played fair.

Have you read The Boz? It was commonplace back in those days to give kids $500 a day for some BS job. UW was doing it. Pretty much everyone with a deep pocketed group of boosters was.

now, Miami did go next level with coke buffets, hookers, you name it. Not sayin everyone went there. That 30 for 30 is something crazy.

 

[AncientCoug]

The only programs in the 1980s that seemed both fairly clean and consistently on top were Nebraska (coach looked the other way on some player behavior stuff, but nothing like what was going on in Norman) and Penn State (uh, yeah). I have no problem watching Miami beat up on Oklahoma in the mid '80s, or vice versa.

The NCAA didn’t start steroid testing until 1986 so I believe it’s a stretch to claim Nebraska or any other program was truly clean in the 80s. Nebraska’s heyday was the 90s anyway and Tom Osborne may have run a clean program by then. I have no way of knowing. Maybe he just never got caught.

 

[royhobbs2]

They still all juice imo. They are just smarter about it or cheat. I’m sure the sec has a great pharmacy

 

[chipdouglas]

Current and possible (LSU wins NC) bowl record for P5 this year:

• Only the SEC has a winning record vs all other conferences
• SEC and PAC have winning records; all others losing
• B10 only one to finish negative vs all other P5 conferences
• B12 is just ugly across the board

B10 looked really strong entering bowl season and finished pitifully. Considering SEC and ACC both get an extra freebie win (4 OOCs), IMO the SEC has done the best job showing top to bottom strength in the postseason - see UT/UK bottom feeders TCB'ing.

 

[royhobbs2]

A bit misleading since Wisconsin Ohio state and Indiana all lost by a #%^ hair

bigten looked strong imo.

 

[chipdouglas]

A bit misleading since Wisconsin Ohio state and Indiana all lost by a #%^ hair

bigten looked strong imo.

Nothing misleading about W/L. None played opponents out of their league. All lost. “Close” only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades

 

[royhobbs2]

bigten is much stronger than the pac 12 and top to bottom as good as the sec imo.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Has anyone been inside UW’s. It’s amazing. Way better than Michigan

I've been inside of Oregon's and while it's nice, it's not mesmerizing

 

[425cougfan]

Has anyone been inside UW’s. It’s amazing. Way better than Michigan

My kid had some baseball practices in it ... oddly enough, I thought it sucked, despite expecting to think it was great. Buzzing, lousy fluorescent lighting, bad turf, just seems worn down. Beats ours, though.

 

[random soul]

The NCAA didn’t start steroid testing until 1986 so I believe it’s a stretch to claim Nebraska or any other program was truly clean in the 80s. Nebraska’s heyday was the 90s anyway and Tom Osborne may have run a clean program by then. I have no way of knowing. Maybe he just never got caught.

Oh I bet lots of teams juiced. Heck I suspect WSU was juicing in the 80s. You didn't have to be elite to do that. I was talking more about paying for players, eligibility shenanigans, and criminal behavior. Saying 80s players juiced is like saying late 70s discos were full of cokeheads.

 

[fingerdisco]

My kid had some baseball practices in it ... oddly enough, I thought it sucked, despite expecting to think it was great. Buzzing, lousy fluorescent lighting, bad turf, just seems worn down. Beats ours, though.

That’s what impresses me with Michigan’s— all that glass and natural lighting is pretty amazing

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Current and possible (LSU wins NC) bowl record for P5 this year:

• Only the SEC has a winning record vs all other conferences
• SEC and PAC have winning records; all others losing
• B10 only one to finish negative vs all other P5 conferences
• B12 is just ugly across the board

B10 looked really strong entering bowl season and finished pitifully. Considering SEC and ACC both get an extra freebie win (4 OOCs), IMO the SEC has done the best job showing top to bottom strength in the postseason - see UT/UK bottom feeders TCB'ing.

That chart needs a little QA/QC or is out of date. Here are the records for each conference according to the NCAA.com website and corresponding win percentage:

ACC: 4-6 (40%) it will improve to 45% if Clemson wins the championship
B10: 4-5 (44%)
B12: 1-5 (17%)
P12: 4-3 (57%)
SEC: 7-2 (78%

Our loss to Air Force wasn't a great look for the conference and the ass-whuppin's that Utah and USC absorbed were bad. Oregon's win over Wisconsin salvaged what was a mediocre bowl season for the conference. Illinois getting thumped by Cal was the only bad loss for the Big 10. Ohio State lost a close game in the national semi-final, Michigan lost to "mighty" Alabama, and Wisconsin lost a close game to Oregon. I don't know that I'd bag on the Big 10 too much. Given the way that our conference performed, I'd bet that our top 3 teams would have gone 0-3 against that slate and it might not have been close. Indiana's one point lost to Tennessee isn't great, but at least it was close and they looked good for most of the game.

 

[Glad Cougar]

There are many ways to interpret the bowl results and the relative strength of each conference. But subjectively, the Pac-12's best (Oregon) beat the Big-10's 2nd/3rd best (you can argue that Penn St. is better than Wisconsin) by 1 point. The Pac-12's second best (Utah) got beat by the Big-12's 4th best by 28 points. The Pac-12's third best (USC) got beat by the Big-10's 4th best by 25 points. The Cal & ASU wins vs. other P5 teams were good for the conference, but beating Illinois & Florida State respectively is nothing that really helps the Pac-12's reputation. Overall, a much better post season showing for the Pac-12, but it is clearly not up to the standards of at least 3 of the other P5 conferences– especially when you account for the fact that our conference's #1 team didn't face another #1, #2 didn't face another #2, #3 didn't face another #3....

Glad Cougar

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Oh I bet lots of teams juiced. Heck I suspect WSU was juicing in the 80s. You didn't have to be elite to do that. I was talking more about paying for players, eligibility shenanigans, and criminal behavior. Saying 80s players juiced is like saying late 70s discos were full of cokeheads.

I had a friend on the team in the late 80's, early 90's. He said that they always knew in advance when testing was going to happen.

 

[chipdouglas]

That chart needs a little QA/QC or is out of date. Here are the records for each conference according to the NCAA.com website and corresponding win percentage:

ACC: 4-6 (40%) it will improve to 45% if Clemson wins the championship
B10: 4-5 (44%)
B12: 1-5 (17%)
P12: 4-3 (57%)
SEC: 7-2 (78%

Our loss to Air Force wasn't a great look for the conference and the ass-whuppin's that Utah and USC absorbed were bad. Oregon's win over Wisconsin salvaged what was a mediocre bowl season for the conference. Illinois getting thumped by Cal was the only bad loss for the Big 10. Ohio State lost a close game in the national semi-final, Michigan lost to "mighty" Alabama, and Wisconsin lost a close game to Oregon. I don't know that I'd bag on the Big 10 too much. Given the way that our conference performed, I'd bet that our top 3 teams would have gone 0-3 against that slate and it might not have been close. Indiana's one point lost to Tennessee isn't great, but at least it was close and they looked good for most of the game.

I just updated with latest results below. I dropped ND as an "ACC" team (I had included them as they mostly play an ACC schedule) and reclassified ISU.

• Still, only the SEC has winning records vs all other conferences
• Still, only the SEC/PAC have winning records
• B12 did have the victory against PAC (TX/UT)

It is also still true that the B1G entered looking as strong as the SEC and finished with a losing record. Really nothing changes. SEC won ~80% of their games and finished positive vs all other P5 conferences. B1G is clearly at least the 2nd best conference, and making a charge for first. Big dropoff after that.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I just updated with latest results below. I dropped ND as an "ACC" team (I had included them as they mostly play an ACC schedule) and reclassified ISU.

• Still, only the SEC has winning records vs all other conferences
• Still, only the SEC/PAC have winning records
• B12 did have the victory against PAC (TX/UT)

It is also still true that the B1G entered looking as strong as the SEC and finished with a losing record. Really nothing changes. SEC won ~80% of their games and finished positive vs all other P5 conferences. B1G is clearly at least the 2nd best conference, and making a charge for first. Big dropoff after that.

The SEC definitely kicked some tail in the bowl games and that was the big surprise of the bowl season. As I said, I don't fault the B1G on their record. They had a tough slate of teams to face and it showed.

 

[OrangeGravy]

It's kind of meaningless isn't it? Even if the SEC has a bad bowl season, which happens, it doesn't dent their rep. Conversely, a good bowl season doesn't really help anyone else's rep outside of the Big10. It gets explained away by some excuse like the teams they played didn't care or the "but their good team lost in the playoff" argument.