It's best to ignore Biggs. He thinks coaching can guarantee results on the field. Never mind that the only possible way for that to be even remotely true, is if a team had better players at every position on both sides of the ball than the other team. In his world, all you have to do is coach better and kids at a talent disadvantage will never get blocked or get out of position on the kick off team. If his theory held true we should probably win every play and hold teams to zero yards per game on offense and score on every offensive play we run.
Can we open the vault and hire a good DC please!!!
- Thread starter ShockandAweWSU
- Start date
It's best to ignore Biggs. He thinks coaching can guarantee results on the field. Never mind that the only possible way for that to be even remotely true, is if a team had better players at every position on both sides of the ball than the other team. In his world, all you have to do is coach better and kids at a talent disadvantage will never get blocked or get out of position on the kick off team. If his theory held true we should probably win every play and hold teams to zero yards per game on offense and score on every offensive play we run.
I don’t really think that’s what he’s saying. Look around the conference and you can see the difference coaching makes. Helton is a boob. With how much talent SC has and has access to they should be killing it right now in a down conference.
We all know WSU is a program that has to do more with less. But it’s fair to point out players making mistakes and attribute some, if not a great deal of it to coaching. I also subscribe to the “if you’re not coaching it you are allowing it to happen”.
This team has the talent to be 7-1 right now. Utah kicked their ass, but there were situational blunders in each of the other losses that I think can be directly attributed to coaching misses...either coaches themselves being responsible in game, or not getting through to a player/players regarding a given situation.
It’s more like Biggs just wants to criticize. No mention of things like Mazza being perfect on the season or Harris ranking 10th in the FBS in kick returns.
6 figures in Pullman doesn’t go quite as far as it used to. Housing prices are crazy. If it wasn’t for WalMart, grocery prices would insane. Now, if you mean $250k+, perhaps. But for an ST coach?
What do you do if you don't have enough players that can do what you coach them to do? Recruit better of course, but that even has limits depending on what school you're at. Coaching can't magically make players better. Sometimes at a school like WSU, you end up with too big of a talent deficit to overcome. Just because we had the talent to win 11 games last year doesn't mean we have the talent to win 9 games this year. When you are at a talent disadvantage like we usually are against most opponents, you have to have good enough talent at certain positions to compete. This year we don't have it in the right spots or enough of it. If we did, the coaches could replace players that aren't getting the "message". When you can't replace a player that either can't execute physically or can but doesn't execute mentally, you're stuck. You can't coach out of that.
All of that being said, we as fans have no clue what is being coached and what is being emphasized every day at practice and in the film room. Without that knowledge it's all guessing.
How many games can his kick coverage team leave the program jammed up before he is bad at his job???
They had one bad game. Every unit on the team has had a bad game this year. Do you want to gut the entire staff?
I do not want to gut the entire staff. I think the special teams coach needs to go.
I dont believe this is Leach’s best year of coaching.
There have been two games where the special teams play was a problem worth noting (UCLA and Oregon). I don't know who made the decision to make that final kickoff in the fashion that they did on the final kick (short kick that allowed a return to the 40ish yard line). I don't know if the kicker shanked it, the ST coach suggested it or Leach authorized it....but it was a mistake. FWIW, on the HBO 24/7 episode, the documentary indicated that our coaching staff largely ignores the kickers and gives them almost no coaching. Mazza said that he's only talked to Leach 5 times this year......total. Leach basically said the same thing when they asked him about it.
That said, it's only 2 games out of 8 where we've talked about them. There's obviously some lessons learned to be had, but making changes because of a few mistakes is kind of extreme, particularly since the defensive play is still our biggest issue. The pick six sucked, but the defense still gave up 31 points on Saturday night and with their level of play, there's no reason to assume that Oregon wouldn't have scored if we punted to them and gave them a short field right before the end of the first half. The good news is that the defense is playing better overall.
We'll see how the next month goes, but if we are 7-4 heading into the Apple Cup, I'd suggest that everyone take a chill pill and let the process work out. If we finish 8-5 at the end of the season, it would be our 14th best season in the past 60 years and it would continue the greatest run of bowl seasons in our program's history. If a bad year for Leach and our team ends up at that spot.........there's no room for complaint by a rational person. Give the season time to play out.
According to the official play-by-play sheet, that last kickoff was fielded at the 3 yard line. You can argue that it would have been better to kick the damn thing out of the endzone, but it's not like it was a real short kickoff. Not sure it would've made a huge difference if the Ducks start at the 25 instead of the 39. They moved easily downfield and had time to spare.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
Looking at watchstadium.com stats from last years college football season...
Teams that start from their own 21-25 yard line have a 34.6% chance of scoring.
Teams that start at their own 36-40 yard line have a 45.5% chance of scoring.
So, if you have a defense that isnt particularly great... and with 1 minute left on the clock... basically anywhere is 4 down territory... I would take the extra 10.9% chance.
In a season where WSU cant afford to have unforced errors and needs to play smart football, they’ve pissed away 3 games.
Leach needs to control what he can control. If that means you kick the ball thru the endzone to give your team an extra 10.9% chance of winning ~ you do it.
I don’t think those stats apply to the WSU defense
Regardless of starting position the opposing offense has a 50% chance of scoring.
Those stats apply to 6500 drives last year. Every team, every game. They apply to everyone, including WSU’s defense.
Wow don’t give away my titles I spent a long time earning them .
So besides not firing the ST coach who has a FG kicker that is perfect on the season, a KO return man that is 10th in the FBS, and maybe the all-conference punter, why is this not "Leach's best year of coaching"? The DC quit. The talent on the defensive side is not what we need. The JC fix did not work. All of us know that. We're not winning close games like last year. We all know that too. What is Leach suppose to do that he's not? Score as the clock hits 00:00 every game?
I hear that Justin Wilcox has an electrical shed he locks players in.
agree, I thick Bellatoni is doing a good enough job now, he just does not have the horses, undersized D line-weak pass rush, poor tackling LBers , and a weak secondary. You could bring in any DC you want and its going to be the same problem.
Some of the best coaching in college is done at the mid major level, the guy Kansas State hired is a good example, Jim Tressel is another one that came from the mid major ranks. Beallatoni may work out very well-recruiting on defense has to be a priority. Some of the young players we have now such as Hobbs may develop into good players. I like the recruits coming in with Walker and Ashby, Brown is a big hitter. The USC DB transfer is going to be good.
You cant make chicken salad out of chicken $hit.
Agree that there is some great coaching going on at mid-major and even smaller programs. Kleiman (sp) at Kansas State actually came from an FCS program, powerhouse North Dakota State. Right now, that looks like a great hire. Time will tell if he can recruit well enough for a Big-12 program. I think it won't be a problem for him.
Glad Cougar
For years, I've seen fans of a lot of teams, complain that their kicker can't kick it out of the back of the endzone every kick. Maybe, it's just difficult for a college kicker to do that consistently. I gave up expecting that years ago.
According to this, only about 46% of kicks are touchbacks. So, easier said than done I guess.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/10/9/17955750/ncaa-kickoff-touchback-rule-results
And 54% dont. And the WSU kicker has plenty of touchbacks this season. So, youre wrong.
How many excuses are you gonna make for WSU to lose????
How much more whining are you going to do?
Edit to add- By the way Crane's touchback percentage is 54.8 percent.
Obviously, the right move is to fire the ST coach and call out Leach for not doing so.
The defense, again, played well enough to win. The offense and special teams, again, left them jammed up.
Im aware that the defense needs work and help. The offense turning the ball over or giving up 8 points isnt helping. Special teams giving up long returns or touchdowns isnt helping.
At what point as a HC do you manufacture a way to protect your defense as much as possible??? Limit turnovers, chew up more clock, score more points, limit the other teams starting position.
The defense has a hard enough time overcoming their own issues. Having the offense and special teams trainwreck things for them and then heap the blame on top of them is crap.
Totally agree. Both co-dc's have done a fine job righting the ship after complete confusion though they haven't retained the players who would of provided much needed depth and size.
I understand where your coming from. If they had done any one of the things you've listed...(mine was TOP for the offense) it would of helped greatly. Once again TOP was 2 to 1 in the second half. Can't blame the defense for wearing down.
The defense gave up 29 points. UO had a kid go 257 on 23 carries. How did they only score 29???
And just cause I wanna incite angry posts.... what happens if MB gets 23 carries for 257???
Ok, so doing my best Sherlock Holmes (since Leach won't talk about anything...):
- We CAN kick the ball out of the end zone, and seem to do so regularly.
- We HAD kicked it out of the end zone during the Duck game on other kicks.
- Weather/ wind did not seem to have been a factor.
- Therefore, the short kick had to have been a purposeful decision.
- Why short kick? if, and thats a big IF for the Cougs, you can cover well you can pin them inside the 25
- given our coverage woes, WHY IN THE LIVING FCK would we ever attempt to short kick?
- Answer - either the ST coach is a moron OR CML is doing his CML thing where hes being subborn as hell and calling plays he knows the players can't execute but SHOULD be able to execute to prove a point/ punish them/ himself. Hes masochistic in this way.
I am not sure he will answer your question as I believe he blocks you. Mike Leach doesn’t fire a ton of people so even if it was appropriate not sure he would pull the trigger.
Like I said...I was really surprised we were still in that game and had a lead. That "OK, lets run it down their throat for a quarter" would only have the offensive linemen jumping up and down. That's not ML. "Surprise the f' out of them...is not in his repertoire. .
Maybe the fall air is heavier and the short kicks are not really planned but the leg isn’t strong enough to carry through the end zone.
No you don’t fire people but our program is a a weird spot . Unlike years past there are probably unfair expectations . Could be argued without Gardner’s magic at the end of half’s and under pressure WSU might have been 5-7 or 6-6.
But people have expectations. Doesn’t anyone doubt Leach at the end of the game will call the right offensive plays . He is calm, brilliant and efficient .
But because our defense may be where we were in 2011, the staff almost has to be perfect.
For example how many plays once we got to their 20 were snapped in the last five seconds? Lets say we could have burned another 30 seconds .
What about Harris running out of bounds . These kids have to know they are now burning clock while they go into the end zone .
Finally not sure I saw anything dynamic in the defensive calls in the last minute, a matter of fact I think they were way too conservative .
Here is what I firmly believe, Cristobal was not smart enough to use his times outs on WSU’s last drive. I think they could have milked another 30 seconds off the clock . And I also believe if Oregon had to line up for a 35 yard fg that kid would have missed it.
I just think the coaches have to be perfect. Find a way to make Oregon start at the 25 for example. Some very small things .
Given the circumstances...it's not like it's a huge mystery. Coaching turnover, failure to recruit the right players on defense that stay with the program and develop has led to this moment. Recruiting JC players at the last moment in order to appease someone who's not going to be with the program for another year has led to this moment. Appointing two co-defensive coordinators who who can stabilize the unit without that lack of depth and then being able to hang with oregon until the last moment is something I'll call tiring. Only thing tiring is having to stay on the field twice as long as the offensive unit.
It's not like Crane regularly blasts them into the 12th row of the bleachers. Maybe, occasionally he just doesn't get a hold of one well. The result is the ball lands on the 3, instead of a couple, 2, 3 yards deep in the endzone. You think 5 or 6 yards of variance on kickoff distance is unrealistic?
Again, there's not a ton, maybe not a single kicker in college football that can put the ball in the endzone on EVERY kick.
Did the defense play well enough to win? Or did the offense play so well that the poor defensive play in the second half wasn't as critical? You say that they played well enough to win, but then say that it's Leach's job to manufacture ways to protect the defense. If the defense was playing so well, why was it the offense's job to protect them?
Our offense scored 18 points on our final three possessions of the game and scored in 3 out of 4 possessions. Unfortunately, the defense that played so well in your mind gave up 20 points in the second half and only forced one punt in the second half as well. I will say that our defense did have a great 2nd quarter in the game. They gave up 0 points and only 60 yards of offense. If not for the ineptness of our offense, we would have been leading 24-9 at halftime. So, in that respect, I get your point. They played great in the 2nd quarter.
However, football is a four quarter game and in the 30 minutes that mattered at the end, the defense sucked donkey balls and allowed Oregon to run right over us like a duck on a moped. There are things that we could have done differently on offense, but at the end of the day, if a defense is giving up around 30 points per game, you are going to lose more often than not. If not for the great play by the offense in the second half, we would have been blown out in a laugher. Oregon is giving up only 12 points per game when you take out our game and we scored 35 points. That means that our offense is 23 points per game better than the other opponents that Oregon faced. Oregon scored just under 36 points per game against the other teams that they played and we gave up 29 points on defense....so even if we had a good game, we were still only 7 points better than average.
As much as you want to blame this game on the offense and give the defense a pass......it doesn't make sense to do so. Yes, the pick six sucked and yes, it would have been nice to have a better result on that final kick-off, but when you allow the opposing team to move the ball 52 yards in 31 seconds in crunch time and trying to maintain a lead.....you don't get to blame the offense. Token resistance from our defense would have forced the Ducks to kick a long field goal, but we were so bad that they had to burn clock at the end.
Just to reiterate what has been written in other threads, without the benefit of hindsight, I don't know if you can assume WSU will score in that last drive and burning down the clock while you are 6 points down is very risky. What if Gordon is sacked and you don't have enough time to recover the lost yardage? What if there's a Liam Ryan special (holding call) that takes you back another 10 yards? As someone else pointed out, if the game is tied, you definitely run down the clock, especially if you are well within FG range. If you are behind, you may need the time to make sure you can run enough plays to score. I don't fault anyone for not running down the clock in that situation. Having said that, I agree the UO kicker would've missed from 35 yards out or beyond. That game winning kick was already starting to slice right from 22 yards.
By the way, I'm aware WSU had one timeout left on that last Cougar drive....but given the potential scenarios I outlined, they may have needed it to stop the clock prior to scoring.
Glad Cougar
serious question.. do they have a choice ? Leave the game in the hands of your best play caller and best players
