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Changed my seat location yesterday...yikes

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CougPatrol

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Dec 8, 2006
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First, the good news. WSU has made it exponentially easier for season ticket holders to change their seat locations. The online process worked great for me. I was able to move from the Pressbox side over the North side and add an extra seat without issue. Trust me when I say that convenience and WSU ticket ordering have historically never been used in the same sentence.

Now the bad news. I was shocked at how many available seats there are in all sections. I have 5 seats together, so I went into the process yesterday thinking that it was going to be tough to find seating availability in other sections, but there was amply availability.

Stating the obvious here, but we really need to start winning; particularly our home games. We've picked the worst possible time to go into a 10+ year competitive coma. Fan interest state wide is seemingly at a modern day low.

Complications include the fact that every game is now on TV. Fewer fans attend games, and thus they've become even further removed from our program. Add in that we now have 800,000 new Seahawk fans who have eaten away at both ours and UW's fan bases, and the obstacles are even greater. The Seahawk factor is a big deal. Their games, not WSU's or UW's, are what people are highlighting on their weekend calendars.

We have to start winning. Easier said than done, but the corner needs to be turned.
 
CougPatrol said:
First, the good news. WSU has made it exponentially easier for season ticket holders to change their seat locations. The online process worked great for me. I was able to move from the Pressbox side over the North side and add an extra seat without issue. Trust me when I say that convenience and WSU ticket ordering have historically never been used in the same sentence.

Now the bad news. I was shocked at how many available seats there are in all sections. I have 5 seats together, so I went into the process yesterday thinking that it was going to be tough to find seating availability in other sections, but there was amply availability.

Stating the obvious here, but we really need to start winning; particularly our home games. We've picked the worst possible time to go into a 10+ year competitive coma. Fan interest state wide is seemingly at a modern day low.

Complications include the fact that every game is now on TV. Fewer fans attend games, and thus they've become even further removed from our program. Add in that we now have 800,000 new Seahawk fans who have eaten away at both ours and UW's fan bases, and the obstacles are even greater. The Seahawk factor is a big deal. Their games, not WSU's or UW's, are what people are highlighting on their weekend calendars.

We have to start winning. Easier said than done, but the corner needs to be turned.
Click to expand...

I've written some variation of this many times, but WSU is in a horrible position from a butts-in-the-seats standpoint. In many cases, the factors cutting against in-person attendance have increased in magnitude significantly in the past 5-10 years. Quickly:
  • Lack of lodging and two-night minimums (a new hotel with a hundred rooms or so helps, certainly, but you need a lot more than that to move the needle in a 32,000-seat stadium)
  • All games on TV in HD for a low cost (very different from even five years ago)
  • More night games (I've run into this several times. Coming from the Seattle area, I just can't pull off the trip over and back for a night game, whereas I easily could do it when the games were at 2pm)
  • Brain / money drain from small communities in Eastern WA within driving distance (secular trend that will continue)
  • Success of rival programs who draw away money and fan support (Gonzaga basketball and Boise State football, in particular ... even frivolity like the Spokane Shock arena football team doesn't help)
  • Gas prices (cheaper than last year, but still pretty expensive when considering real wages haven't increased in something like 15 years)
  • Weeknight games (obvious reasons)
  • Lack of "natural" support for a full 180 degrees out of 360 (not only is the location rural, but being in the far SE corner of the state, you don't get the same local interest from fans east of Pullman, who live in Idaho, and who are close to the University of Idaho, that you would if the college was similarly rural but in the middle of the state, and without a neighboring state's flagship university 8 miles east). It's hard to express this succintly in a manner that does the job, but think about it ... does it help having half of your natural, close-in territory be in another state? How many Idahoans are really going to be loyal WSU fans when Idaho's flagship university is right there? Sure, some people in Lewiston or Moscow want to see real / big boy football, but it's a bit odd to support a rival state's university when your state's university is there as well (and putatively playing FBS football too).
I don't think the situation is hopeless ... a consistently successful, entertaining team still can draw consistently good crowds. There are substantial headwinds to selling out the stadium -- with people who actually attend -- though, even if the team becomes a consistent bowl team. This isn't 1997.
 
425cougfan said:
I don't think the situation is hopeless ... a consistently successful, entertaining team still can draw consistently good crowds. There are substantial headwinds to selling out the stadium -- with people who actually attend -- though, even if the team becomes a consistent bowl team. This isn't 1997.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.
 
I agree, although I don't think UI creates much of a diversion of fan base. They've been awful for much longer than us, so I think if there were football fans who wanted to see a game, the 8 miles wouldn't matter to them. Idaho-wise, it's BSU that's taking away from us.

The one thing I disagree about is the hopelessness. Winning will increase viewership, not necessarily attendance. We're not going to fill the stadium without a significant marketing effort from WSU Athletics...and so far, they seem to have their heads firmly in the sand.
 
CougPatrol said:
Now the bad news. I was shocked at how many available seats there are in all sections. I have 5 seats together, so I went into the process yesterday thinking that it was going to be tough to find seating availability in other sections, but there was amply availability.
.
Click to expand...
I came here with exactly the same thought. I have 4 seats together, and assumed it might be tough to find other spots. Imagine my surprise to find entire rows available, even at midfield. I looked at the whole south side after that...and it's shocking. I'd say that close to half - maybe more - of the south side is available. Seems pretty likely that our ST numbers are below 10K again.
 
I was amazed at how many really good seats are available. The large number of terrific available seats may have a lot to do with the substantial CAF donation requirement. That, plus a lot of well-healed fans have left Section 6 to elevator up to Club Level. I have never been in Club Level, but suspect the attraction has more to do with elbow-rubbing possibilities than actually watching a football game. And that is just fine. GU basketball took the business socializing at games, and paying big bucks for the privilege, to a very high level.
 
I know it is Spokane's fault. Relatively short drive away (when compared to traveling from the West side), and sizeable population base.

It's good the school is investing marketing efforts heavily into the Spokane area as well as establishing the medical school there. We need to expand our footprint into that entire region if we want to regularly sell out Martin (after the wins come of course).

Also, about lodging: The school, city, hell even successful alumni businessmen need to come together and develop equitable solutions to the severe lack of lodging on football weekends. Expand areas that allow RV's? Convert old dorms into temp hotels? Allow camping in August/September?
 
How many billboards advertising Cougar fb are there in Spokane? Tri-Cities?

How many ads are being run for football? Not "allez Cougs", either. FOOTBALL ads. Hell, just athletics ads would be nice.

Did they start the Cougar cage camp back up? How about the track meet in Richland?

They don't even run an ad in the school's quarterly publication, WSM. Its pathetic.

Instead I get auto-dialer Cougar-Calls that hang up on me and my wife.

Nice job, guys. Honestly, it was a bad idea for me to write this post - it just infuriates me to the point of wanting to throw it all in; if WSU doesn't care, why the fvck should I?

(Save the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" bullsh!t. We all have lapses of Coug faithfullness, mine just happened online in public. I'll always be a Coug - 25 years of putting up with bullsh!t athletics is verification.)
 
95coug said:
I agree, although I don't think UI creates much of a diversion of fan base. They've been awful for much longer than us, so I think if there were football fans who wanted to see a game, the 8 miles wouldn't matter to them. Idaho-wise, it's BSU that's taking away from us.

The one thing I disagree about is the hopelessness. Winning will increase viewership, not necessarily attendance. We're not going to fill the stadium without a significant marketing effort from WSU Athletics...and so far, they seem to have their heads firmly in the sand.
Click to expand...

I hear you re the situation overall. Re U of I, my point isn't so much that many casual sports fans without an attachment to WSU in, say, Lewiston, are going to divert that many fans ... it's more that because they're in Idaho, they're less likely to decide to become a supporter of Washington State University than if they were in Washington. Being shoved in the SE corner of the state (and with U of I right there too, to a small extent) further cuts off our natural territory. There aren't that many people to the east of Pullman in Idaho, but we'd undoubtedly be better off if we had, say, 5,000 additional regular attendees from Lewiston and some of the smaller towns around there. They're not that likely to be WSU fans due to state affiliation.
 
Who lives in Spokane and doesn't realize Pullman, WSU and PAC-12 football is within a 90 minute drive???
 
chinookpirate said:
Who lives in Spokane and doesn't realize Pullman, WSU and PAC-12 football is within a 90 minute drive???
Click to expand...

Its not that people in Spokane don't realize, its that they simple have not hitched their emotional wagon to WSU. EWU has a larger alumni base and their success in both basketball and football have re-engaged that former potential WSU game ticket buyers. The casual non-affiliated fan in Spokane is also far more likely to consider themself a Zag instead of a Coug.

Until there is some sustained success on the field/court, no amount of marketing or promotion is going to change the lack of interest in Spokane.
 
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Observer11 said:
Its not that people in Spokane don't realize, its that they simple have not hitched their emotional wagon to WSU. EWU has a larger alumni base and their success in both basketball and football have re-engaged that former potential WSU game ticket buyers. The casual non-affiliated fan in Spokane is also far more likely to consider themself a Zag instead of a Coug.

Until there is some sustained success on the field/court, no amount of marketing or promotion is going to change the lack of interest in Spokane.
Click to expand...

Agree, 100%
 
Yes the demand is down. I paid for 2 seats for four home games last year. I did not go to the last two home games.I saved money by cancelling airline reservations,car rental,and hotel rooms in Spokane. I do not plan to attend any games this season. Leach has to start winning. He is recruiting well and i hope makes better decisions concerning personnel. I will start going again if they have a good year and a good team and start winning games. It costs a lot of money to fly from out of state ,rent cars and stay in hotels. I believe they may turn the corner this year as they will have better leadership both off and on the field. I got tired of watching the cougs fall way behind and then compile meaningless stats after the game was essentially over.However,i am going to wait until i see the product this year before i commit myself to tickets as i can watch on TV. Criticize, but many fans want a better product and will pay to see the Leach type of teams he had at TT .
 
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ElComanche said:
Yes the demand is down. I paid for 2 seats for four home games last year. I did not go to the last two home games.I saved money by cancelling airline reservations,car rental,and hotel rooms in Spokane. I do not plan to attend any games this season. Leach has to start winning. He is recruiting well and i hope makes better decisions concerning personnel. I will start going again if they have a good year and a good team and start winning games. It costs a lot of money to fly from out of state ,rent cars and stay in hotels. I believe they may turn the corner this year as they will have better leadership both off and on the field. I got tired of watching the cougs fall way behind and then compile meaningless stats after the game was essentially over.However,i am going to wait until i see the product this year before i commit myself to tickets as i can watch on TV. Criticize, but many fans want a better product and will pay to see the Leach type of teams he had at TT .
Click to expand...

I think the finger-wagging, "how un-Cougly of you" days are behind us. If you as a fan chose not to spend your time or money, no other Coug has standing to judge you. The Cougs have been horrible for years now, the gameday experience is still barely above bad, and the whole experience is a time and money sink. I applaud and am happy for those who still find value and entertainment in going to Pullman and hoping for a miracle on the field.

For me its about the time - I cancel other stuff in my life to see the Cougs. Thats not to say its not expensive, just my time is my most valuable commodity. What is sad is that I find myself trying to find other forms of entertainment to justify my trip to Pullman while making the game a side departure. "Hmmm, fall turkey? Palouse Ridge? Visit the folks? Get some fall steelhead?"
 
Observer11 said:
Its not that people in Spokane don't realize, its that they simple have not hitched their emotional wagon to WSU. EWU has a larger alumni base and their success in both basketball and football have re-engaged that former potential WSU game ticket buyers. The casual non-affiliated fan in Spokane is also far more likely to consider themself a Zag instead of a Coug.

Until there is some sustained success on the field/court, no amount of marketing or promotion is going to change the lack of interest in Spokane.
Click to expand...

On what planet does EWU have a larger alumni base than WSU?
 
CPtheCoug said:
I know it is Spokane's fault. Relatively short drive away (when compared to traveling from the West side), and sizeable population base.
Click to expand...

You would be surprised by the number of people in Spokane who think Pullman is just too far away to attend games. It makes me irrationally angry. And I am not just talking about t-shirt fans, I have had fellow alums say this to me.

On the other hand, we have only won 3 home conference games in the past 5 seasons. It is hard to blame anyone for not giving a shit anymore.
 
BleedCrimsonandGray said:
How many billboards advertising Cougar fb are there in Spokane? Tri-Cities?

How many ads are being run for football? Not "allez Cougs", either. FOOTBALL ads. Hell, just athletics ads would be nice.

Did they start the Cougar cage camp back up? How about the track meet in Richland?

They don't even run an ad in the school's quarterly publication, WSM. Its pathetic.

Instead I get auto-dialer Cougar-Calls that hang up on me and my wife.

Nice job, guys. Honestly, it was a bad idea for me to write this post - it just infuriates me to the point of wanting to throw it all in; if WSU doesn't care, why the fvck should I?

(Save the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" bullsh!t. We all have lapses of Coug faithfullness, mine just happened online in public. I'll always be a Coug - 25 years of putting up with bullsh!t athletics is verification.)
Click to expand...

Tri-Cities billboards = zero
Richland track meet = no
Radio ads = zero
TV ads = zero
Athletic marketing events = 2. Night w/ CFB in February, WSU tailgate in June. Direct mail only, no advertising. I went to last year's tailgate...I'd ballpark it at 200 attendees, in a town of near 200,000. And, there was zero atmosphere. Not planning to attend this year.
Athletic events = 1. Baseball v. Portland State tomorrow night. No advertising at all.

I remember in the late 80s/early 90s, you couldn't turn on the radio without hearing the "Cougar football Saturday" ads. They were on TV too, although not quite as common. WSU coaches talked to the local media, recruited the Big Nine games...even if they didn't take any recruits, they made themselves visible, which made WSU visible. None of those things happen anymore.
You know the other thing I saw in the 80s/90s? Long lines of cars from Tri-Cities to Pullman on Friday nights and Saturday mornings. That doesn't happen anymore either. Most of the time when I drive up, I don't see more than a small handful of other cars until I get on 26.

It's strange...there was no significant athletic marketing budget in the 80s/90s, and there wasn't an office dedicated to the purpose....and they did a better job then.
 
Observer11 said:
There are 34,000 EWU alums in Spokane County. It is fairly common knowledge in the area there are more EWU alums than WSU alums. They announce it about every chance they get at various events.

If you would like to link a source that shows contrary to that, feel free.

http://www.ewu.edu/Documents/Marcom/Facts/alumfacts12-13.pdf
Click to expand...

"Fairly common knowledge" doesn't make it a fact. WSU for whatever reason doesn't offer a breakdown of the number of alumni living here vs there. But given our sheer size advantage, I would assume WSU is fairly close to that 34k figure, if they haven't eclipsed it.

And it doesn't really matter anyways, Eastern is irrelevant when it comes to legitimate competition for football customers. They get 8600 fans a game, and they are at highest point they have ever been at on the field. Even in the depths of the disaster years, WSU was still doubling that on the worst possible day of the season (Saturday before Thanksgiving against someone not named UW.)

When WSU is even marginally good, they draw 30k+ to games. When EWU wins a national title, barely anyone outside of the existing fan base notices.
 
By your tone, it's pretty obvious you don't live in Spokane. The same thing is happening with EWU football as happened with Gonzaga basketball. EWU is aggressively courting businesses and donors while WSU is still relying on the logic the even when marginally good they draw 30K. First - WSU hasn't been marginally good for a long time, second the fan experience isn't anything to write home about other than the club seats.

Don't be surprised when EWU's Gateway project opens (including luxury suites) and the gate attendance at WSU takes another hit.
 
So what is the solution? Any ideas? I think Bill Moos has shown his hand a few times in regards to actually reading Coug forums, so lets give him some ideas to run with?

To me, not only is it important to market Spokane, but I think its also important to have more than one or two interesting events happening in Pullman each weekend. For example sake, lets say its a football weekend: The primetime event would be the football game, secondary event be golfing?, third event be ???

I think (for westsiders), you cannot solely rely on "The Cougs" to entice casual football fans to drive 4+ hours across the state to Pullman. I've dealt with having to convince buddies to carpool with me over to Pullman during last season, the usual response is: "Bro, you know I love Pullman but I'm not really interested in driving hours across the state to spend a bunch of money just see our butts get kicked". Fair point, which is why more "things" need to be going on to add to the "fun" of visiting Pullman.
 
Observer11 said:
By your tone, it's pretty obvious you don't live in Spokane. The same thing is happening with EWU football as happened with Gonzaga basketball. EWU is aggressively courting businesses and donors while WSU is still relying on the logic the even when marginally good they draw 30K. First - WSU hasn't been marginally good for a long time, second the fan experience isn't anything to write home about other than the club seats.

Don't be surprised when EWU's Gateway project opens (including luxury suites) and the gate attendance at WSU takes another hit.
Click to expand...

Aside from actually winning games, what about the "Fan experience" makes games in Cheney better than Pullman? Is it the small crowds? The small time opponents? The red field?

Comparing EWU football to GU is a misnomer. GU, despite being in a joke conference, plays at the highest level of the sport at the college level. EWU does not. You can't even begin to compare the two.

WSU's problem always has been and continues to be a lousy product on the field. And if you think Moos and Co aren't out there courting businesses and donors, then you simply aren't paying attention.
 
Observer11 said:
By your tone, it's pretty obvious you don't live in Spokane. The same thing is happening with EWU football as happened with Gonzaga basketball. EWU is aggressively courting businesses and donors while WSU is still relying on the logic the even when marginally good they draw 30K. First - WSU hasn't been marginally good for a long time, second the fan experience isn't anything to write home about other than the club seats.

Don't be surprised when EWU's Gateway project opens (including luxury suites) and the gate attendance at WSU takes another hit.
Click to expand...
I can unequivocally guarantee, EWU coaching staff is pitching themselves to recruits and parents as the Gonzaga of football with a championship culture and tradition.
 
chinookpirate said:
I can unequivocally guarantee, EWU coaching staff is pitching themselves to recruits and parents as the Gonzaga of football with a championship culture and tradition.
Click to expand...

And your point is? I can guarantee you that the WSU staff is pitching their skill development acumen that will help little jimmy or johnny get drafted into the NFL.

Oh, and then there is that part where EWU and WSU aren't recruiting the same kids. At least not anymore, since Wulff is no longer leading the recruiting efforts.

Also, the Gonzaga of football is Boise State.
 
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wazzucougs96 said:
And your point is? I can guarantee you that the WSU staff is pitching their skill development acumen that will help little jimmy or johnny get drafted into the NFL. Yes, that was exactly the pitch made by Baldwin and then he discussed Adams, then intro to Rodgers.... and championships and culture.

Oh, and then there is that part where EWU and WSU aren't recruiting the same kids. At least not anymore, since Wulff is no longer leading the recruiting efforts. Yes, Baldwin seemed more than a little puzzled by this. He wondered why some of his kids weren't recruited by 'bigger schools' didn't name any, I didn't ask.

Also, the Gonzaga of football is Boise State That may be. A lot of folks use Gonzaga as an example of what they would like to become. I had not heard Boise State coaches ever say they are the Gonzaga of football. seems odd to me since they aren't even in the same state and Boise has their own basketball program... .
Click to expand...
 
Gawd I hate this new format. It sucks.

Re: alums - there is a map on the WSU Govt relations site that shows alums by Voting District. Surprisingly low for WSU - Less than 20,000 grads in the Greater Spokane area. Of course that is likely degree-granted alums. Alumni are often categorized as anyone who attended a school, not necessarily just graduates.

The solution to attendance? WIN GAMES. I dropped my seasn tickets in the Wulff era after 20 years, have no intention of re-upping unless we get back to a winning record (pac-12 and total) at home. The gameday experience is great when you win, and especially if the stadium is full and we win and is full because we are winning.

We filled that place when it seated 40,000 and our student population (and total alums) were WAY less than now. Win, Win and Win and everything else becomes moot.
 
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You mean Vernon Adams? The guy who just spurned Baldwin and EWU for a real football program? And Rodgers? Where do you think he came from?

And seeing as how you are so dense, allow me to explain it to you: Boise State wins a lot of games in a joke show conference, and uses it to springboard themselves onto the national stage in the postseason, consistently. Gonzaga does the same thing in basketball.
 
CPtheCoug said:
So what is the solution? Any ideas? I think Bill Moos has shown his hand a few times in regards to actually reading Coug forums, so lets give him some ideas to run with?

To me, not only is it important to market Spokane, but I think its also important to have more than one or two interesting events happening in Pullman each weekend. For example sake, lets say its a football weekend: The primetime event would be the football game, secondary event be golfing?, third event be ???

I think (for westsiders), you cannot solely rely on "The Cougs" to entice casual football fans to drive 4+ hours across the state to Pullman. I've dealt with having to convince buddies to carpool with me over to Pullman during last season, the usual response is: "Bro, you know I love Pullman but I'm not really interested in driving hours across the state to spend a bunch of money just see our butts get kicked". Fair point, which is why more "things" need to be going on to add to the "fun" of visiting Pullman.
Click to expand...
What's the point? That conversation has been had multiple times, and nothing changes.

The focus should not - and never should have been - on the west siders. The ones who are going to come already do. The focus needs to be on getting the students and locals to show - those two groups alone come close to filling half the stadium. Drawing another 8-10K from between Pullman and Spokane, and 5-7K from between Pullman and Walla Walla and Tri-Cities, combined with the existing RV crowd...fills the stadium. Done. Marketing completely within a 2.5 hour drive should easily pull in the 32-33K that the stadium will hold.

Ideas? Easy.
Homecoming and Dad's Day should easily sell out 1/3 of your games.
Every game - giant BBQ on the mall...or really close Stadium Way and do it there. Time it with the Lentil Festival and make it a full family thing.
Later September/Early October: Fall festival. Carnival on the track, plus the BBQ.
Mid-late October: Octoberfest. Pull in the numerous regional breweries and create an event. Could also do the same with wineries. If only there was a place that had good cheeses to pair with wines. Hmmm.....
November is tougher because you have to look at the weather, but there are still possibilities.
And for the love of God....bring Ferdinand's to the game. Sell grabbers in the fieldhouse, if not in the stadium. Have a few flavors of cones available on the concourse. Don't turn your back on the things that are already famous...use them!
 
wazzucougs96 said:
This is the first time you have mentioned 20,000. Still had not seen a source on that until Loyal Coug posted it.
Click to expand...

Does that somehow make a difference that there are still more EWU alums than WSU alums in Spokane County? Which I said at the beginning of this thread and you chose to scoff at it.

Or are you just afraid to admit you were wrong in your premise of threats to attending WSU games?

Hopefully Bill Moos isn't sleeping on EWU as much as this board is. They are getting after it in Spokane with a fraction of the budget.
 
Observer11 said:
There are 34,000 EWU alums in Spokane County. It is fairly common knowledge in the area there are more EWU alums than WSU alums. They announce it about every chance they get at various events.

If you would like to link a source that shows contrary to that, feel free.

http://www.ewu.edu/Documents/Marcom/Facts/alumfacts12-13.pdf
Click to expand...

It's not all that surprising that Spokane has more EWU grads than WSU grads. It has more fast-food joints that need qualified employees.
 
Observer11 said:
Does that somehow make a difference that there are still more EWU alums than WSU alums in Spokane County? Which I said at the beginning of this thread and you chose to scoff at it.

Or are you just afraid to admit you were wrong in your premise of threats to attending WSU games?

Hopefully Bill Moos isn't sleeping on EWU as much as this board is. They are getting after it in Spokane with a fraction of the budget.
Click to expand...

Your argument was lacking merit until someone else sourced it for you. But don't let that get in the way of your holier than thou act.

And my premise regarding WSU football isn't wrong. 100 years of history is on my side, whereas you only have fear mongering.
 
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