Consequences/Concerns of LA Fires

[95coug]

The water pressure also failed during the 1961 Bel Air and Topanga Fires. In the years after, LAFD and DWP planned a number of improvements, for those specific areas, to make sure that never happened again. One of those improvements was the construction of the Santa Ynez Reservoir, built expressly for emergencies in the Pacific Palisades. That reservoir was empty last week.


Link for those without X

Eric Spiegelman (@ericspiegelman)

The water pressure also failed during the 1961 Bel Air and Topanga Fires. In the years after, LAFD and DWP planned a number of improvements, for those specific areas, to make sure that never happened again. One of those improvements was the construction of the Santa Ynez Reservoir, built...

xcancel.com

My favorite part is that even though exactly the same thing happened 60 years ago, people today still come with the conspiracy version that “they turned the water off.”
No, they didn’t. Problem is that everyone downhill turned the water on.

There’s another school of thought that’s outraged that the same condition existed this year as occurred in 1962. That shouldn’t even be a surprise. These things tend to repeat - memory is short, especially where a bureaucracy is involved. It’s doubtful that anyone in the relevant departments really even knew there was a 1962 fire, and even more doubtful they knew what the problems were. Residents in the area certainly didn’t…and the reality is that development continued pushing into the chaparral, and the green space and fire breaks were not maintained.

There will be a big emphasis on fire protection in these areas once the fires are out. They’ll expand water storage capacity and say “never again.” But…after 10 years, the memory will start to drift. In 25, there will be a few residents who remember, but nobody in the water department will. After 30, there will be a complete reset, and the area will be primed for another repeat, and will just be waiting for another spark.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Yes, your doctor is doing his best to make you better, but he can only work with the tools he’s provided. Pharma companies have no reason to cure anyone - much more profitable to figure out how to keep the condition from killing you, but not make it go away completely.

Even if they wanted to cure cancer, there are so many different types, with different targets, growth rates, and modes of action that it really isn’t a single disease…and I’m not convinced that there’s really a cure. At least, not outside of the cure that the immune system may create on its own with another 100 million years or so of evolution.

Except the pharma companies DID come up with a trrwtment (vaccine) that actually prevent HPV cancers. All cancers associated with that virus have decreased since that vaccine came out.

And in the future mRNA technology will target other specific types which will further erode these alleged lifetime revenue streams for the RX folk.

Will be interesting to see all these alarmist over mRNA tech wil forgo their use to prevent and or treat cancers in either themselves or their loved ones. Taihtsat

 

[Coug90]

Except the pharma companies DID come up with a trrwtment (vaccine) that actually prevent HPV cancers. All cancers associated with that virus have decreased since that vaccine came out.

And in the future mRNA technology will target other specific types which will further erode these alleged lifetime revenue streams for the RX folk.

Will be interesting to see all these alarmist over mRNA tech wil forgo their use to prevent and or treat cancers in either themselves or their loved ones. Taihtsat

I would love to see the medicine cabinets of some of these folks. Well…yeah…but…ummm….but….

 

[dgibbons]

Not just cures covid for ivermectin, but also cures cancer according to Mel Gibson as platformed on the gullible Joe Rogan podcast.

Covid originated from a pangolin having a one night stand with a turtle.

~Sciene!

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Covid originated from a pangolin having a one night stand with a turtle.

~Sciene!

What's "sciene"? Did you learn of it on the Joe Rogan experience?

 

[dgibbons]

What's "sciene"? Did you learn of it on the Joe Rogan experience?

It’s the form of Science that you adhere to. Commonly known as pangolin humping.

 

[UberCougars]

My favorite part is that even though exactly the same thing happened 60 years ago, people today still come with the conspiracy version that “they turned the water off.”
No, they didn’t. Problem is that everyone downhill turned the water on.

There’s another school of thought that’s outraged that the same condition existed this year as occurred in 1962. That shouldn’t even be a surprise. These things tend to repeat - memory is short, especially where a bureaucracy is involved. It’s doubtful that anyone in the relevant departments really even knew there was a 1962 fire, and even more doubtful they knew what the problems were. Residents in the area certainly didn’t…and the reality is that development continued pushing into the chaparral, and the green space and fire breaks were not maintained.

There will be a big emphasis on fire protection in these areas once the fires are out. They’ll expand water storage capacity and say “never again.” But…after 10 years, the memory will start to drift. In 25, there will be a few residents who remember, but nobody in the water department will. After 30, there will be a complete reset, and the area will be primed for another repeat, and will just be waiting for another spark.

Gosh! It’s as if nobody has learned anything about pumping water in 60 YEARS … except of course in New Orleans and NYFD.

New Orleans completed a project in 2012 that uses 11 pumps pushing out 1,650,000 gallons per hour at a cost of only $1.1 B

If you combined that with a check valve at the point of discharge to override water use to only emergency services, LA could have had nearly 3,000,000 gallons of water per week available.

Not enough? 22 pumps could have provided 6,000,000 gallons. California leadership simply chose not to. Negligence is the word that comes to mind.

Of course staging fire 🔥 quick- response teams and resources in key corridors ahead of the SEVERAL warnings might have helped too. But, it’s best to just let the fire burn until you’re Really sure you want to get people all bothered.

56 million people know about this report from the LATimes admitting 117,000,000 gallons of reserve weren’t where they were supposed to be.

https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1877774871633264990?s=46

https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1877774871633264990?s=46

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

It’s the form of Science that you adhere to. Commonly known as pangolin humping.

I'm sorry if you get your science and medical "knowledge" and advice from the JRE podcast or listening to RFK Jr. It won't serve you well. I would advise against it. Taihtsat

 

[dgibbons]

I'm sorry if you get your science and medical "knowledge" and advice from the JRE podcast or listening to RFK Jr. It won't serve you well. I would advise against it. Taihtsat

MSNBC served you well?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

MSNBC served you well?

No...it doesn't. They're not objective enough. Objective and factual news sites would be a good place for you to start as well.

 

[dgibbons]

No...it doesn't. They're not objective enough. Objective and factual news sites would be a good place for you to start as well.

Oh. Thanks for the advice, and confirming your memory stinks. I’ve posted my news sources on this board. JRE and RFK Jr. are not amongst them.

Keep consuming MSNBC though.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Oh. Thanks for the advice, and confirming your memory stinks. I’ve posted my news sources on this board. JRE and RFK Jr. are not amongst them.

Keep consuming MSNBC though.

Never said you did link to them. But clearly based off the arguments you put forward, the places you gain your "knowledge" are biased and lack adequate objectivity.

Again, I'd advise you do better. You're welcome!

 

[dgibbons]

Never said you did link to them. But clearly based off the arguments you put forward, the places you gain your "knowledge" are biased and lack adequate objectivity.

Again, I'd advise you do better. You're welcome!

Are you the pot or the kettle?

 

[95coug]

Gosh! It’s as if nobody has learned anything about pumping water in 60 YEARS … except of course in New Orleans and NYFD.

New Orleans completed a project in 2012 that uses 11 pumps pushing out 1,650,000 gallons per hour at a cost of only $1.1 B

If you combined that with a check valve at the point of discharge to override water use to only emergency services, LA could have had nearly 3,000,000 gallons of water per week available.

Not enough? 22 pumps could have provided 6,000,000 gallons. California leadership simply chose not to. Negligence is the word that comes to mind.

Of course staging fire 🔥 quick- response teams and resources in key corridors ahead of the SEVERAL warnings might have helped too. But, it’s best to just let the fire burn until you’re Really sure you want to get people all bothered.

56 million people know about this report from the LATimes admitting 117,000,000 gallons of reserve weren’t where they were supposed to be.

View embedded media

View embedded media

I don’t know for sure what the elevation of the reservoirs or the hydrants are in Pacific Palisades, but I know that New Orleans and New York are basically at sea level. They’re not pumping uphill…which takes a lot of pressure and energy. Friction and head losses are shockingly high, even over relatively small distances and elevations.

3M gallons per week is nothing, and would have made no difference in this fire. FDs would have burned through that in hours.

There’s no doubt that mistakes were made, and I’m sure that some heads will roll. A few of them might even be people who deserve blame, but mostly they’ll be scapegoats.

Reality is that the people most responsible for the failings are probably long retired, and aren’t anywhere near LAFD, city hall, DWP, or the state house anymore. Memory is often pretty short where disaster prep and prevention is concerned.

 

[UberCougars]

You know that 117,000,000 gallon reservoir built for Pacific Palisades? It was empty. There were 2 more of them paid for that were never built.

You know all that record SoCal snow/rain? None of it was captured, by design. Why?

Did you know small fires are easier to extinguish than large ones? No, I suppose you don’t.

Ask Rick Curuso about the advantage of being proactive at the first sign of warning

Imagine having 50,000gallons of water in your swimming pool with no high pressure pump to help save your home. Over half the homes in PacPal have pools.

You can continue to spout excuses for failure all you want but the proof is in the ashes.

There’s a nice little article in the Seattle Times about how Washington got caught with its pants down once and is doing things differently now by staging quick strike crews to attack at the first sign of trouble. There were multiple red flag warnings as much as five days before from Federal, State and local agencies.

BTW, The elevation of Pacific Palisades, California, is approximately **710 feet** (216 meters) above sea level. - grok

The Pacific Ocean contains approximately **352 quintillion gallons** of water. - grok

 

[95coug]

You know that 117,000,000 gallon reservoir built for Pacific Palisades? It was empty. There were 2 more of them paid for that were never built.

You know all that record SoCal snow/rain? None of it was captured, by design. Why?

Did you know small fires are easier to extinguish than large ones? No, I suppose you don’t.

Ask Rick Curuso about the advantage of being proactive at the first sign of warning

Imagine having 50,000gallons of water in your swimming pool with no high pressure pump to help save your home. Over half the homes in PacPal have pools.

You can continue to spout excuses for failure all you want but the proof is in the ashes.

There’s a nice little article in the Seattle Times about how Washington got caught with its pants down once and is doing things differently now by staging quick strike crews to attack at the first sign of trouble. There were multiple red flag warnings as much as five days before from Federal, State and local agencies.

BTW, The elevation of Pacific Palisades, California, is approximately **710 feet** (216 meters) above sea level. - grok

The Pacific Ocean contains approximately **352 quintillion gallons** of water. - grok

Yeah, I can’t wait to hear why that reservoir was empty. That actually could have made a difference if it was available in the beginning. Also will be interesting to see the official word on what the cause was.

The SoCal records for rain & snow are at the low end. Downtown LA hasn’t had a day with over a tenth of an inch since last May. Southern Cal is still in drought, it’s the north that’s getting rain.

Pumping water uphill requires 0.433 psi per foot of rise. Multiplied by 710 feet, you need over 300 psi just to lift it…and that doesn’t account for friction loss in the pipe. That means moving it in stages with booster stations…all of which require power too. The farther you move the water, the more effort & infrastructure it takes. Using seawater probably isn’t viable more than a short distance from the shoreline, and definitely isn’t when the power goes out. Whatever the water source, the best way to move it is going to be a reservoir pumped full and then gravity fed to where it’s needed…which bring us right back to the empty reservoir issue.