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Day drinkers- Cal game thread

Watched the 2nd half. I guess Davis for UW had some sort of arm injury in the 1st half. Came out in a sling. He’s has seemed to compliment Terrell Brown. Brown’s had a big season but they usually have found someone else to step up on the offensive end. Bey, Matthews, Bajema, etc. Didn’t happen today.

I would like to think they are regressing back to what they showed early but that defense can cause some chaos. I hope they do just well enough to keep Hopkins in town. This is a team we should beat home or away unless they get a big game from someone other than Brown and they have during the last stretch.

And that's something else. In the 3 years, that Kyle Smith has been at WSU, Kyle Smith, WSU has OWNED, DESTROYED UW, SWEPT THEM, etc.

And so a 14-7, 7-3 in Pac 12, tied for 4th in Pac 12, 5 wins in a row, etc, WSU that has swept, owned UW, is gonna lose to a 12-9 UW, that was TERRIBLE in Non Con, that lost by 30 to Oregon, that got destroyed by 21 by Stanford, that WSU beat by 6 on ROAD, and that has only done well in Pac 12, because everything, schedule, breaks, bounces, injuries, fouls, calls, LUCK, etc, goes their way, is gonna lose to UW. NOT, not unless they, UW pulls a Arizona St beating UCLA, and WSU pulls a UCLA, losing to Arizona St.

UW only has about a 33% chance to beat WSU, and they again showed why with their 21 point loss to Stanford.

The other thing that's good about UW getting lucky enough to be overhyped, overrated, is that it will keep Hopkins his job, so that WSU can likely continue to be better then UW, and beat them, UW, and out recruit them, UW, etc.
 
They aren’t great but they could certainly get up for us and they’ve proven they can put a good game together. Boys don’t bring it they could easily lose in Seattle. And these are games they need.

Yes just like UW, has LOST EITHER EVERY TIME OR ALMOST EVERY TIME WSU has played the last 3 years, under Smith, and UW under Hopkins.

Yes, WSU could semi easily lose a close game to UW on the road, the same way UCLA, lost to Arizona St.

That's POSSIBLE, but NOT PROBABLE, LIKELY.

Yes WSU has to show up, play hard, play ok, do their best, etc, to win, beat UW. They also have to do that vs ASU, Ore St, or they could lose to ASU, Ore St, as well.

But WSU PROBABLY, LIKELY WINS, BEATS UW, Ore St, ASU.

And I think, assume, that WSU, Smith, the players will PROBABLY be ready to play, try, play hard, ok, etc, win, beat, etc, UW, Ore St, Arizona St.

And I EXPECT, WSU to win, beat UW, Arizona St, Ore St, just like I EXPECTED Stanford to win, beat UW.

And I am not worried, hand wringing, and "oh no, oh woe is WSU, UW, is SOOO GOOOD, and will win, beat WSU", like some of our fellow WSU fans.
 
Offensively, Terrell Brown keeps them in games and they turn teams over. Hopkins has stopped exclusively playing the Syracuse zone as well. Today's loss is why they lose. They need someone to produce with Brown and didn't get it today. Over the win streak someone has stepped up and made shots. A Matthews, Bey, or Bajema. They are athletic.
 
He got crossed the F up more than once on defense too. His entire game is off right now.
I do not disagree with the play you mention, but he brings a lot of positives as well. This is a team game. As a coach it is More like a puzzle then just picking your best shooters, or defenders, etc… Your pessimistic view on Noah is telling.. You mention 1 play as if that means something.. For The best players and defenders in the country this happens every game. Otherwise the person your guarding isn’t any good?!
 
Glad to see UW get blown out at Stanford. I"m not sure any WSU fans have ever stated they were a really good team....just that they have done better than expected. I'll still respect any opponent still on the WSU schedule, which is not the same as saying I think WSU will lose.

Cougs now in 4th place by themselves. Keep er' going!

Glad Cougar
 
Lost 3 conference games by a total of 12 points. SC by 2 and the Stanford debacle by 5. We haven't really beat anyone of note but could easily be 8-2 at this point. We aren't so it doesn't matter (or is what it is).

Lots of opportunities the next 2 weeks.
 
They aren’t great but they could certainly get up for us and they’ve proven they can put a good game together. Boys don’t bring it they could easily lose in Seattle. And these are games they need.

I didn't watch the game, but Furd is an excellent rebounding team and UW plays zone defense. Easy to do the math on that. Turnovers have typically canceled out Furd's rebounding advantage. Otherwise they'd have several more wins.
 
I do not disagree with the play you mention, but he brings a lot of positives as well. This is a team game. As a coach it is More like a puzzle then just picking your best shooters, or defenders, etc… Your pessimistic view on Noah is telling.. You mention 1 play as if that means something.. For The best players and defenders in the country this happens every game. Otherwise the person your guarding isn’t any good?!
One play? Noah has been hot garbage all year. What are the "lot of positives"? He is no Gary Payton when it comes to D and GP can you hear me would knock down 20 a night. Noah is a liability. Too bad Bamba isn't healthy. He is much more athletic and can bring some O.
 
One play? Noah has been hot garbage all year. What are the "lot of positives"? He is no Gary Payton when it comes to D and GP can you hear me would knock down 20 a night. Noah is a liability. Too bad Bamba isn't healthy. He is much more athletic and can bring some O.
Read the post I wrote above again you will find your answer. Gary Payton is your comparison??? Nuff said..
 
Read the post I wrote above again you will find your answer. Gary Payton is your comparison??? Nuff said..
It might have seemed like picking on him as you recalled the same play I did where he was beaten badly. Sure maybe a bit unfair to point to that play. But right now as trump pointed out, he’s a liability all over the floor. Yeah it’s a team game and he’s completely off his game so the other 4 guys are not sure what to do with him when he’s in the game. The issue with a good player who’s off is eventually he will find himself again and you may not know when that is. He’s only going to get out of it by playing. I’d be curious to see +/- stats. Not sure they keep those stats but I’d guess Noah’s is pretty poor right now.
 
It might have seemed like picking on him as you recalled the same play I did where he was beaten badly. Sure maybe a bit unfair to point to that play. But right now as trump pointed out, he’s a liability all over the floor. Yeah it’s a team game and he’s completely off his game so the other 4 guys are not sure what to do with him when he’s in the game. The issue with a good player who’s off is eventually he will find himself again and you may not know when that is. He’s only going to get out of it by playing. I’d be curious to see +/- stats. Not sure they keep those stats but I’d guess Noah’s is pretty poor right now.
I think you are projecting when you wrote the other 4 guys are not sure what to do with him. I doubt his plus/minus is that bad. One, WSU, as the data raid school, probably keeps track of every statistic. If Williams was as bad as you believe him to be, he would not be getting the minutes and trust that Coach Smith has in him. One thing I learned a long time ago, what we all think we are seeing is not always what the coaches see. Whether it is Kenpom, N.E.T., or Torvick's rankings. WSU ranks very high, and that is with Williams getting a lot of minutes.
 
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Read the post I wrote above again you will find your answer. Gary Payton is your comparison??? Nuff said..
His entire game is currently garbage. Nuff said! He is supposed to be a leader, he's not. He is supposed to be a great defender, he's average at best. He can't hit a clutch free throw, he is a turnover machine. He makes horrible decisions with the ball. He is a liability on the court. As another poster stated, his teammates don't know what to do with him when they are on offense. Truly painful to watch him play. You mention he brings a lot of positives. Care to elaborate, because I see a shit ton more negatives then positives my friend.
 
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His entire game is currently garbage. Nuff said! He is supposed to be a leader, he's not. He is supposed to be a great defender, he's average at best. He can't hit a clutch free throw, he is a turnover machine. He makes horrible decisions with the ball. He is a liability on the court. As another poster stated, his teammates don't know what to do with him when they are on offense. Truly painful to watch him play. You mention he brings a lot of positives. Care to elaborate, because I see a shit ton more negatives then positives my
Here you are sitting at home watching a game on TV telling us someone is not a leader. Yet you are not even watching the stuff that identifies who the leader is.. He is 100% the leader of that team. He is the person everyone gathers around in timeouts. He is the one communicating. Do you notice during time outs and breaks in the game who the players are listening to and approaching? On appearance he may not be playing well to the untrained eye, but anyone who has ever played basketball at any high level understands that winning is more then just offense. He guards the other teams best player as well. You mention turnovers. Why didn’t you mention steals. Actually watch the game from a coaches perspective. It is not always just what you see. A lot of it is what he is being asked to do. Help side plays, Helping the helper, effective field goal percentages when he is the nearest defender. Plus/ minus when he is in the game.. So much more goes in to winning basketball games…A lot happens on the court that never shows up in a box score.. You speak with the perspective of the average fan.. Your entitled to your opinion… I would suggest that the coach being a data guy and all would not have Noah on the floor if the data did not suggest he should be there..
 
Here you are sitting at home watching a game on TV telling us someone is not a leader. Yet you are not even watching the stuff that identifies who the leader is.. He is 100% the leader of that team. He is the person everyone gathers around in timeouts. He is the one communicating. Do you notice during time outs and breaks in the game who the players are listening to and approaching? On appearance he may not be playing well to the untrained eye, but anyone who has ever played basketball at any high level understands that winning is more then just offense. He guards the other teams best player as well. You mention turnovers. Why didn’t you mention steals. Actually watch the game from a coaches perspective. It is not always just what you see. A lot of it is what he is being asked to do. Help side plays, Helping the helper, effective field goal percentages when he is the nearest defender. Plus/ minus when he is in the game.. So much more goes in to winning basketball games…A lot happens on the court that never shows up in a box score.. You speak with the perspective of the average fan.. Your entitled to your opinion… I would suggest that the coach being a data guy and all would not have Noah on the floor if the data did not suggest he should be there..
On appearance he may not be playing well to the untrained eye? Sounds like some hedging 34. My eye is plenty well trained. His current game especially on offense is brutal at best. Cringeworthy is probably a better description. Leaders step up and hit key free throws. Leaders don't recklessly take the ball with 5 seconds left in the half and drive to the bucket with 3 defenders in their grill....they pass off to a better shooter and let them take the last shot. I would be A Ok with Noah on the floor if he played outstanding D (all the time), wasn't a turnover machine and could hit a key shot once in a while. I truly hope he can turn his game around....but we are 2/3 of the way through the season and I just don't see it happening.
 
I think you are projecting when you wrote the other 4 guys are not sure what to do with him. I doubt his plus/minus is that bad. One, WSU, as the data raid school, probably keeps track of every statistic. If Williams was as bad as you believe him to be, he would not be getting the minutes and trust that Coach Smith has in him. One thing I learned a long time ago, what we all think we are seeing is not always what the coaches see. Whether it is Kenpom, N.E.T., or Torvick's rankings. WSU ranks very high, and that is with Williams getting a lot of minutes.

19,20,21 minutes per game, is a lot of minutes? No it isn't a lot of minutes. Noah only plays about 19,20,21 minutes per game, on average, according to the stat box scores which have regularly seen say that Noah has only averaged a small, not a lot, 19, 20,21 minutes per game, because Noah is STRUGGLING, and that's the reason, why Smith is only giving Noah, about 19,20,21 minutes, per game, which is small, not a lot.
 
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19,20,21 minutes per game, is a lot of minutes? No it isn't a lot of minutes. Noah only plays about 19,20,21 minutes per game, on average, according to the stat box scores which have regularly seen say that Noah has only averaged a small, not a lot, 19, 20,21 minutes per game, because Noah is STRUGGLING, and that's the reason, why Smith is only giving Noah, about 19,20,21 minutes, per game, which is small, not a lot.
If Noah wasn't struggling Noah would get about 30 to 33 to 35 to 37 minutes per game, which would be is a LOT of minutes, instead of Noah only playing about 19,20,21 minutes per game, which is not a lot.
 
On appearance he may not be playing well to the untrained eye? Sounds like some hedging 34. My eye is plenty well trained. His current game especially on offense is brutal at best. Cringeworthy is probably a better description. Leaders step up and hit key free throws. Leaders don't recklessly take the ball with 5 seconds left in the half and drive to the bucket with 3 defenders in their grill....they pass off to a better shooter and let them take the last shot. I would be A Ok with Noah on the floor if he played outstanding D (all the time), wasn't a turnover machine and could hit a key shot once in a while. I truly hope he can turn his game around....but we are 2/3 of the way through the season and I just don't see it happening.
We just have to agree to disagree.. You continue to link Leadership to shots, freethrows, and single plays.. It is just far more then that.. I once played with a guy (college-scholarship athlete) who was easily the worst player on our team, never the less on the floor at any given time.. Even as players we complained about him sucking up shots getting blown by on defense and wondered aloud why he was playing.. I finally talked to the coach…The coach brought me in on a Saturday to watch video… We spent most of the day with me pointing out his mistakes and the coach pointing out how we played when he wasn’t on the court… Turns out he was one tough SOB who fought the fights the rest of us didn’t want to fight.. His mere presence on the court made us a tougher team and kept us from getting pushed around… I see the same with Noah… We complain about his attitude. We all say look at how he’s out of control, he’s on the court talking crap to the other team…. Again your “trained eye” doesn’t realize that every team needs that guy. He may not be perfect, he may make bad decisions, but he brings the energy and the fight that is necessary to compete.. He is the toughness, confidence, and swagger, that doesn’t exist elsewhere, but benefits every team… I will repeat, there is a reason why the coach plays him as much as he does…. Look beyond the typical numbers that we all clamor for. That’s where you will find winning.
 
Noah plays 26 mins a game. Why randomly make something up that is so easy to check first? Noah is struggling this year but is still an important part of this team. His defense is solid and disruptive of the opponents offense. Imo he still is looked upon by others as one of the team leaders. Again this is just an opinion but I feel Noah bought into all the hype of him scoring 20 plus a game, and that’s simply not his game and not in his skill set. Now he is stuck without an identity as a player or stuck between two different roles. He needs to stick to being a defensive stopper and go away from trying to be a go to scorer.
 
Noah plays 26 mins a game. Why randomly make something up that is so easy to check first? Noah is struggling this year but is still an important part of this team. His defense is solid and disruptive of the opponents offense. Imo he still is looked upon by others as one of the team leaders. Again this is just an opinion but I feel Noah bought into all the hype of him scoring 20 plus a game, and that’s simply not his game and not in his skill set. Now he is stuck without an identity as a player or stuck between two different roles. He needs to stick to being a defensive stopper and go away from trying to be a go to scorer.
Not disagreeing with you Jourdand as I mostly agree with you… This is for those in the back!
We are 14-5 when Noah plays 20 minutes or more.. 0-2 when he doesn’t play?? Hmmm..
Those losses were to Eastern Wa. and Colorado… Anybody want to guess what was missing in those games… Hint: It wasn’t scoring..
 
We just have to agree to disagree.. You continue to link Leadership to shots, freethrows, and single plays.. It is just far more then that.. I once played with a guy (college-scholarship athlete) who was easily the worst player on our team, never the less on the floor at any given time.. Even as players we complained about him sucking up shots getting blown by on defense and wondered aloud why he was playing.. I finally talked to the coach…The coach brought me in on a Saturday to watch video… We spent most of the day with me pointing out his mistakes and the coach pointing out how we played when he wasn’t on the court… Turns out he was one tough SOB who fought the fights the rest of us didn’t want to fight.. His mere presence on the court made us a tougher team and kept us from getting pushed around… I see the same with Noah… We complain about his attitude. We all say look at how he’s out of control, he’s on the court talking crap to the other team…. Again your “trained eye” doesn’t realize that every team needs that guy. He may not be perfect, he may make bad decisions, but he brings the energy and the fight that is necessary to compete.. He is the toughness, confidence, and swagger, that doesn’t exist elsewhere, but benefits every team… I will repeat, there is a reason why the coach plays him as much as he does…. Look beyond the typical numbers that we all clamor for. That’s where you will find winning.

AGAIN 19,20,21 MINUTES BY NOAH IS NOT THE COACH PLAYING HIM A LOT, AS MUCH AS HE DOES, AND 19,20,21 IS NOT A LOT OF MINUTES FOR A PAST, NORMAL 29 TO 32 TO 34, ETC, MINUTES PLAYER.
 
Noah plays 26 mins a game. Why randomly make something up that is so easy to check first? Noah is struggling this year but is still an important part of this team. His defense is solid and disruptive of the opponents offense. Imo he still is looked upon by others as one of the team leaders. Again this is just an opinion but I feel Noah bought into all the hype of him scoring 20 plus a game, and that’s simply not his game and not in his skill set. Now he is stuck without an identity as a player or stuck between two different roles. He needs to stick to being a defensive stopper and go away from trying to be a go to scorer.

BULL, I AM NOT MAKING ANYTHING UP. I HAVE CHECKED THE BOX SCORE STATS SEMI REGULARLY FROM TIME TO TIME AND NOAH TYPICALLY HAS PLAYED ABOUT 19,20,21 MINUTES DURING THOSE TIMES.

NOAH PROBABLY POSTED 26 MINUTES, ETC, A COUPLE, FEW, SOME TIMES, BUT USUALLY NOAH PLAYED ABOUT 19,20,21, MINUTES, AT LEAST DURING THE SEMI REGULAR, FROM TIME TO TIME, I CHECKED.

19,20,21 MINUTES IS NOT A LOT OF MINUTES.
 
Not disagreeing with you Jourdand as I mostly agree with you… This is for those in the back!
We are 14-5 when Noah plays 20 minutes or more.. 0-2 when he doesn’t play?? Hmmm..
Those losses were to Eastern Wa. and Colorado… Anybody want to guess what was missing in those games… Hint: It wasn’t scoring..

Ok FINALLY, you stop saying LOTS of minutes. You could have made your points without saying LOTS of minutes, because wasn't lots of minutes.

You made your point, you didn't need to say LOTS of minutes, because wasn't LOTS of minutes.
 
AGAIN 19,20,21 MINUTES BY NOAH IS NOT THE COACH PLAYING HIM A LOT, AS MUCH AS HE DOES, AND 19,20,21 IS NOT A LOT OF MINUTES FOR A PAST, NORMAL 29 TO 32 TO 34, ETC, MINUTES PLAYER.
To set the record straight Noah averaged 30 minutes per game last year and is currently averaging 26.3 minutes per game this year..My guess is that more then his lack of productivity it would be because of the influx of guards now available.
Noah is 3rd on the team in minutes per game.
3rd in points, 2nd in assists, 6th in rebounds (1st among guards), 1st in steals.
For all intents and purposes he is last among athletes who get regular minutes in fg% and 3pt %… Those are the facts
 
Here you are sitting at home watching a game on TV telling us someone is not a leader. Yet you are not even watching the stuff that identifies who the leader is.. He is 100% the leader of that team. He is the person everyone gathers around in timeouts. He is the one communicating. Do you notice during time outs and breaks in the game who the players are listening to and approaching? On appearance he may not be playing well to the untrained eye, but anyone who has ever played basketball at any high level understands that winning is more then just offense. He guards the other teams best player as well. You mention turnovers. Why didn’t you mention steals. Actually watch the game from a coaches perspective. It is not always just what you see. A lot of it is what he is being asked to do. Help side plays, Helping the helper, effective field goal percentages when he is the nearest defender. Plus/ minus when he is in the game.. So much more goes in to winning basketball games…A lot happens on the court that never shows up in a box score.. You speak with the perspective of the average fan.. Your entitled to your opinion… I would suggest that the coach being a data guy and all would not have Noah on the floor if the data did not suggest he should be there..
The long droughts during games where everyone seems to be looking at each other to get them out of it is absolutely a lack of leadership on the floor. Now whether that’s Noah’s natural role, who knows. I’d assume he’s one of those guys, sure seems like he’s fill that role. Might be placing too much blame on Noah for that but no question the way some of these games have gone down the team has been lacking in on court leadership.
 
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The long droughts during games where everyone seems to be looking at each other to get them out of it is absolutely a lack of leadership on the floor. Now whether that’s Noah’s natural role, who knows. I’d assume he’s one of those guys, sure seems like he’s fill that role. Might be placing too much blame on Noah for that but no question the way some of these games have gone down the team has been lacking in on court leadership.
I agree, which is kind of to my point that without him there is zero. I’m sure part of it is the number of new players and the fact that the team is relatively young. He being a junior is the most experienced Coug I believe. Could be wrong though..
 
Both sides are partially right and partially wrong here.

I get the point that coug4life is making except that I think Michael Flowers also fits the role coug4life is talking about, and that because of Michael Flowers, I think the coach could not play Noah, and Michael Flowers would take Noah's role, and WSU would win.

That wasn't true earlier in the season, so Noah was needed back then, in the role coug4life describes.

Also Noah is kinda, sorta, like a Ryan Rapp, Lodwick, Witherall, etc.

Now those players were slow, unathletic, lacked lateral quickness, lacked athletic defensive ability, and didn't have the speed, quickness, etc, to drive, create their own shot, make those lay ups, floaters, runners, shots, etc.

And so they had to learn what Dick Bennet, etc, taught players before them. They had to learn POSITIONAL, MECHANICAL TECHNIQUES, MECHANICS, etc, that would enable them to play good defense, occasional score, draw charges, keep player in front, not let players blow by them, work hard, dive for balls, hustle, get floorburns, rebound, have a good attitude, be a good leader, be a ROLEPLAYER, GLUE GUY.

And so because they learned that, they typically got about 15 to 17 to 19 minutes per game, and became reasons why WSU won games, with them playing about 15 to 17 to 19 minutes per game.

Now I kinda, sorta said that Noah, is kinda, sorta, like them, except he is a better player, and more athletic then them.

But where he Noah is kind of like them, is that Noah works hard, he guards, defends against the toughest assignments, which gets him beat, and sometimes makes him look bad, and because of how good he was last year, he drew the toughest defenders, determined to shut down his offense, causing him to turn the ball over, miss shots, look bad, get mentally affected to where he regressed, went into a massive shooting slump. He Noah is averaging about 1.7 to 2 to 2.3 ASSIST per game. He Noah is about 3rd on the team in scoring at about 11 ppg.

I think it was Tony Delk, or some other player that went to the NBA, that scored 11 per game. Jrue Holiday that went to NBA averaged about 9.5 ppg, less then Noah William's, 11 ppg.

Noah has a good attitude, gives max effort, he is basically a ROLEPLAYER, GLUE GUY, Leader, this year, just like Lodwick was, except that Noah, is better, more athletic.

So that's part of why the coach is playing Noah, just like with why Bone played Lodwick.

But part of the reason why coach is playing Noah, is that even if Noah were to be as TERRIBLE, HORRIBLY bad for the team as some say, the team is WINNING, and coaches can be superstitious,etc, and not want to change anything, like how much Noah is playing, because if your WINNING, and if it isn't broke, why try to fix what isn't broken, whats working.

Also there is a LOT of SYNERGY, CHEMISTRY, between the players and Noah.

Also there is the chance that Noah may return to last year's form, success, etc, so the coach wants to play Noah about 20 minutes a game, in the hopes that Noah might play himself in returning to last season's form.

BUT IF WSU were to go on a LOSING STREAK, eventually Smith would stop playing Noah, and let Flowers take more of Noah's role, and replace Noah with Tyrell Roberts, Flowers, Bamba, Rodman, etc.
 
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I agree, which is kind of to my point that without him there is zero. I’m sure part of it is the number of new players and the fact that the team is relatively young. He being a junior is the most experienced Coug I believe. Could be wrong though..

Flowers is a Senior, Tyrell Roberts is a Junior, and Abogidi is a Junior, and Dischon Jackson is a Sophmore, and Jaki is a Sophmore.

Next year should finish, 2,3,4 in Conference and might even win the conference.
 
We just have to agree to disagree.. You continue to link Leadership to shots, freethrows, and single plays.. It is just far more then that.. I once played with a guy (college-scholarship athlete) who was easily the worst player on our team, never the less on the floor at any given time.. Even as players we complained about him sucking up shots getting blown by on defense and wondered aloud why he was playing.. I finally talked to the coach…The coach brought me in on a Saturday to watch video… We spent most of the day with me pointing out his mistakes and the coach pointing out how we played when he wasn’t on the court… Turns out he was one tough SOB who fought the fights the rest of us didn’t want to fight.. His mere presence on the court made us a tougher team and kept us from getting pushed around… I see the same with Noah… We complain about his attitude. We all say look at how he’s out of control, he’s on the court talking crap to the other team…. Again your “trained eye” doesn’t realize that every team needs that guy. He may not be perfect, he may make bad decisions, but he brings the energy and the fight that is necessary to compete.. He is the toughness, confidence, and swagger, that doesn’t exist elsewhere, but benefits every team… I will repeat, there is a reason why the coach plays him as much as he does…. Look beyond the typical numbers that we all clamor for. That’s where you will find winning.
Fair enough. Thing is you say every team needs that guy. I was that guy. That being said I understood my role and didn't try to be someone I was not. Noah had a couple 35+ games last year and IMO spent more time reading his press clipping then he did practicing free throws. I have been tough on him, but I think we all expected more out of Noah this year. He has regressed, and doesn't play like a cool calm Jr. He is playing like a frantic/erratic freshmen. As I previously stated, I hope the guy turns it around. It's not that I don't root for him. I do! He reminds me of Justus Rogers. JR was a constant source of frustration, took horrible angles, arm tackled, was slow and most of the time very unimpressive as a LB. Sure he had his moments but my gawd he was painful to watch.
 
Fair enough. Thing is you say every team needs that guy. I was that guy. That being said I understood my role and didn't try to be someone I was not. Noah had a couple 35+ games last year and IMO spent more time reading his press clipping then he did practicing free throws. I have been tough on him, but I think we all expected more out of Noah this year. He has regressed, and doesn't play like a cool calm Jr. He is playing like a frantic/erratic freshmen. As I previously stated, I hope the guy turns it around. It's not that I don't root for him. I do! He reminds me of Justus Rogers. JR was a constant source of frustration, took horrible angles, arm tackled, was slow and most of the time very unimpressive as a LB. Sure he had his moments but my gawd he was painful to watch.
My thoughts on Noah. Coming into the season he was thinking big season NBA. Whatever illness he had early on knocked him on his ass and has disrupted most of his season. Because of that, his shot is off and right now he’s just pressing…mentally drained. I hope he returns to form down the stretch, but I could see him coming back with a vengeance next year and turning in a conference POY type of year. He seems the type that has that kind of fire.
 
To set the record straight Noah averaged 30 minutes per game last year and is currently averaging 26.3 minutes per game this year..My guess is that more then his lack of productivity it would be because of the influx of guards now available.
Noah is 3rd on the team in minutes per game.
3rd in points, 2nd in assists, 6th in rebounds (1st among guards), 1st in steals.
For all intents and purposes he is last among athletes who get regular minutes in fg% and 3pt %… Those are the facts
My 2 cents on NW is yes, he should play 25-30 minutes a game and no, he should not have the ball as the "shot creator" or "playmaker" in a critical situation where we must have a basket with time running low. That should be Flowers or Roberts.

Everyone agree?
 
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Interesting discussion. Couple of observations:

  • Noah has not played less than 21 minutes in any game this year (except for the two games he missed due to injury). As pointed out by Coug4Life, he is 3rd on the team in minutes per game. The depth on this year's team is better (when everyone is healthy) which probably accounts for the ability of the coach to give more breathers to the starters.
  • Michael Flowers is the team leader at this point. He is team captain as voted by his teammates. Everyone might have deferred to Noah earlier this year given his experience and productivity last year, but it appears Flowers is the one now recognized as the guy who is most apt to make everyone else better. He would be the one I want to have the ball in the critical moments of a close game.
  • The team is still young. The only upper classmen in the rotation are Flowers, Noah, Roberts, & Rodman (Abogidi is a sophomore, Mik). The team is growing up and should be better next year even though Flowers will need to be replaced. Noah is going to be needed for many reasons. Defense & leadership next year, primarily. But I still maintain that what's keeping this year's team from being a borderline excellent team is the offensive production most of us expected from Noah this year. If he can somehow get it going, the Cougars become serious contenders. Does he get it going if he sits on the bench or can he snap out of it only if he plays through whatever problems he's having? That's the million dollar question.

Glad Cougar
 
Interesting discussion. Couple of observations:

  • Noah has not played less than 21 minutes in any game this year (except for the two games he missed due to injury). As pointed out by Coug4Life, he is 3rd on the team in minutes per game. The depth on this year's team is better (when everyone is healthy) which probably accounts for the ability of the coach to give more breathers to the starters.
  • Michael Flowers is the team leader at this point. He is team captain as voted by his teammates. Everyone might have deferred to Noah earlier this year given his experience and productivity last year, but it appears Flowers is the one now recognized as the guy who is most apt to make everyone else better. He would be the one I want to have the ball in the critical moments of a close game.
  • The team is still young. The only upper classmen in the rotation are Flowers, Noah, Roberts, & Rodman (Abogidi is a sophomore, Mik). The team is growing up and should be better next year even though Flowers will need to be replaced. Noah is going to be needed for many reasons. Defense & leadership next year, primarily. But I still maintain that what's keeping this year's team from being a borderline excellent team is the offensive production most of us expected from Noah this year. If he can somehow get it going, the Cougars become serious contenders. Does he get it going if he sits on the bench or can he snap out of it only if he plays through whatever problems he's having? That's the million dollar question.

Glad Cougar
There is an excellent article over at Cougcenter regarding Williams. If WSU is going to reach it's potential, then Williams is important. If he plays average to good, WSU wins. If he has a bad game, they mostly lose.
 
There is an excellent article over at Cougcenter regarding Williams. If WSU is going to reach it's potential, then Williams is important. If he plays average to good, WSU wins. If he has a bad game, they mostly lose.
Good article, but it seems common sense. Most believed Williams was either going to be top scoring option or at least number 2. If he has a good offensive showing stats shows, we have a high probability of winning. And even if he has a below average offensive game, we still have a good shot at winning. Its only if he bombs or doesn’t play, we lose. To me that shows how far along this team has progressed that even when one of our top players has a below average game offensively, we win consistently. What I found interesting (and I don’t know what to make out of it) is that the cougs are 8-5 when Noah is 24%+ of the teams possessions, 6-0 when under 24% and 0-2 when he doesn’t play.
 
Good article, but it seems common sense. Most believed Williams was either going to be top scoring option or at least number 2. If he has a good offensive showing stats shows, we have a high probability of winning. And even if he has a below average offensive game, we still have a good shot at winning. Its only if he bombs or doesn’t play, we lose. To me that shows how far along this team has progressed that even when one of our top players has a below average game offensively, we win consistently. What I found interesting (and I don’t know what to make out of it) is that the cougs are 8-5 when Noah is 24%+ of the teams possessions, 6-0 when under 24% and 0-2 when he doesn’t play.
So defending, rebounding and passing the ball is what Noah should be doing.

Shooting and dribbling, not so much.
 
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