Dickert to Canzano: “We need to go to a 28-team playoff"...

[M-I-Coug]

JOHN CANZANO, October 30th, 2024, The Bald Faced Truth

Washington State football coach Jake Dickert shared something he’s been thinking about with me this week.

“We need to go to a 28-team playoff,” Dickert told me. “The kids have proven they only want to play in the playoffs, so why not? Let’s give the people what they want. There are no conference champions. The conferences are so big. So let’s open it up and have a real playoff like Division II and Division III. They find a way to do 28 teams. That would create a lot of excitement.”

The Cougars are 7-1 with four games left on the schedule. The first College Football Playoff rankings will be released next Tuesday. WSU isn’t eligible for a conference championship berth this season. Dickert knows his team, even at 11-1, would need help to reach the 12-team playoff field with an at-large berth.

Scrub Conference Title Games?​

Dickert said he’d like to see college football move the start of the season to mid-August, do away with conference championship games, and start that 28-team playoff a week after the end of the season.

Would TV go for it?

The conference championship games are included as part of the media-rights package. The networks paid for them and won’t give them up. The current rights deals would need to sunset. That pushes this conversation out to at least 2028 or so. The CFP and ESPN also signed a six-year, $7.8 billion contract last spring. ESPN holds the rights to the event through the 2031-32 season.

Would the Big Ten and SEC be on board?

It’s like Gordon Gekko said: “Money never sleeps.” If there’s more revenue in it, they’d be all ears. But those conferences have their ideas about the future. There’s also the question of what would happen with bowl games.

“These kids want to play in meaningful games,” Dickert said. “The bowl system has had its turn. It’s time to evolve into a bigger playoff system. It took us so long to get a two-team playoff, then a four-team playoff, and now we’re at 12.

“It will get there.”

 

[M-I-Coug]

Here's the problem with our current system:

We can all agree that pre-season Top 25 polls are a joke. Next week, on Election Day 11/5, the CFP Polls come out for the first time.

Top 25 Pre-season polls will usually have:

Michigan
Ohio State
Alabama
Texas
Georgia
Oregon
USC
Clemson
Ole Miss
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Notre Dame

Never will they have a Washington State in a Pre-Season (August) Poll. Typically never.

Fast forward. We have a good year. Now we have to crawl our way, (starting the end of October at #22) into the Top 12 to make it to the CFP! The odds are about 15% we make it.

Take this year for example. If we we're let say ranked #23 at the beginning of the season, at 7-1, (granted, we really have not beaten anybody, (both Power 4 schools, UW and TT are NOT ranked), nonetheless, we begin the season at # 23 against Portland St.

Today we might be a Top 15 team, (instead of #22). We win out at 11-1, we would absolutely be in the Top 12 and make it to the College Football Playoffs. Granted, we have not beat a ranked opponent. This example could be for years in the past, or any year in the future, where we have beaten ranked opponents.

My point is....starting let's say at #24 in August, is a lot easier than starting at # 22 in November.

Because of our "brand name" in the minds of the national pollsters, we can all agree...the process simply isn't fair.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Here's the problem with our current system:

We can all agree that pre-season Top 25 polls are a joke. Next week, on Election Day 11/5, the CFP Polls come out for the first time.

Top 25 Pre-season polls will always have:

Michigan
Ohio State
Alabama
Texas
Georgia
Oregon
USC
Clemson
Ole Miss
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Notre Dame

Never will they have a Washington State in a Pre-Season (August) Poll. Typically never.

Fast forward. We have a good year. Now we have to crawl our way into the Top 12 to make it to the CFP!

Take this year for example. If we we're let say ranked #23 at the beginning of the season, at 7-1, (granted, we really have not beaten anybody, (both Power 4 schools, UW and TT are NOT ranked), nonetheless, we begin the season at # 23 against Portland St.

Today we would be a Top 15 team. We win out at 11-1, we would in the the Top 12 and make it to the College Football Playoffs.

Because of our "brand name" in the minds of the pollsters, we can all agree...the process isn't fair.

We wouldn't be top 15. Maybe top 20.

You said it yourself, our brand is garbage to the pollsters. Every blue blood with 1 or 2 losses would be in front of us.

 

[M-I-Coug]

We wouldn't be top 15. Maybe top 20.

You said it yourself, our brand is garbage to the pollsters. Every blue blood with 1 or 2 losses would be in front of us.

But our logo is the best. I guess that's not working, either!

If Dickert ever leaves, we need to find a coach like Mark Few, who wins every year and will NEVER leave Pullman. It's possible.
Then our brand will mean something.

I feel sorry for Gonzaga Basketball when Few retires. Seriously. They'll be the Nebraska of the past. Look at UCLA.

 

[SaveFerris]

Agree with Dickert. Leach wanted 64 with a minimum of 16 teams. The bowls are meaningless, but could still be used for the playoffs. It won't happen because of whatever the f***.

 

[M-I-Coug]

Agree with Dickert. Leach wanted 64 with a minimum of 16 teams. The bowls are meaningless, but could still be used for the playoffs. It won't happen because of whatever the f***.

View embedded media

I truly believe Leach started the conversation. I know I'm wrong....but I think he was the first public figure that put it out there, publicly.
Credit to coach Leach!

 

[SaveFerris]

I truly believe Leach started the conversation. I know I'm wrong....but I think he was the first public figure that put it out there, publicly.
Credit to coach Leach!

It’s one of those things that makes too much sense so it won’t get done. I’m sure the SEC likely wouldn’t want it. Fox/ESPN? I wonder.

 

[M-I-Coug]

It’s one of those things that makes too much sense so it won’t get done. I’m sure the SEC likely wouldn’t want it. Fox/ESPN? I wonder.

If there's money, it will eventually get done. Right?

 

[Coug90]

Here's the problem with our current system:

We can all agree that pre-season Top 25 polls are a joke. Next week, on Election Day 11/5, the CFP Polls come out for the first time.

Top 25 Pre-season polls will usually have:

Michigan
Ohio State
Alabama
Texas
Georgia
Oregon
USC
Clemson
Ole Miss
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Notre Dame

Never will they have a Washington State in a Pre-Season (August) Poll. Typically never.

Fast forward. We have a good year. Now we have to crawl our way, (starting the end of October at #22) into the Top 12 to make it to the CFP! The odds are about 15% we make it.

Take this year for example. If we we're let say ranked #23 at the beginning of the season, at 7-1, (granted, we really have not beaten anybody, (both Power 4 schools, UW and TT are NOT ranked), nonetheless, we begin the season at # 23 against Portland St.

Today we might be a Top 15 team, (instead of #22). We win out at 11-1, we would absolutely be in the Top 12 and make it to the College Football Playoffs. Granted, we have not beat a ranked opponent. This example could be for years in the past, or any year in the future, where we have beaten ranked opponents.

My point is....starting let's say at #24 in August, is a lot easier than starting at # 22 in November.

Because of our "brand name" in the minds of the national pollsters, we can all agree...the process simply isn't fair.

If we’d beat BSU we’d be top 10 in the country RN. I agree the early polls are silly and mostly meaningless but when you have the resume you have the resume. I’m not sure it makes much of a difference by mid Nov where you started.

 

[M-I-Coug]

If we’d beat BSU we’d be top 10 in the country RN. I agree the early polls are silly and mostly meaningless but when you have the resume you have the resume. I’m not sure it makes much of a difference by mid Nov where you started.

Respectively disagree...."I’m not sure it makes much of a difference by mid Nov where you started."

It sure does make a difference.

We would be ranked at least 20, or better IF we had been in the polls earlier, (instead of this past Sunday)!

Like I said..."the process simply isn't fair", because our Pullman university is not named "Alabama".

 

[UberCougars]

This system might work with the caveat any SEC team losing in the first round shall automatically be re-seeded into the Semi-final bracket.

Just to make it fair

 

[SaveFerris]

This system might work with the caveat any SEC team losing in the first round shall automatically be re-seeded into the Semi-final bracket.

Just to make it fair

Sounds about right!

 

[Flatlandcoug]

If we’d beat BSU we’d be top 10 in the country RN. I agree the early polls are silly and mostly meaningless but when you have the resume you have the resume. I’m not sure it makes much of a difference by mid Nov where you started.

I'd agree that by mid-November, the polls have done a good of sorting themselves out. Still, I'm not sure that we could be in the Top 10 if we had beaten BSU. With our NR starting position, I'd bet that we'd be #15 right now if we were 8-0. If we were ranked before the season, I'd guess that we would currently be #12 if we were undefeated.

 

[UberCougars]

Seriously though, imagine the hype building 3-2-1 weeks out going into a 28 team tournament.

The revenue this tournament would generate would be immense. How much would the players get, I wonder?

 

[CougPatrol]

This is eventually going to happen. Would solve a lot of problems.

 

[roses04]

Look at what March Madness has done for basketball, it wouldn't be that difficult to replicate that in football. As Leach explained, everyone else has it figured out. they do it in High School, FCS has an expanded playoff, and the NFL has 14 out of 32 teams make the playoffs. You can use the bowls as playoff games. I say start with 32 teams, that means the teams that play in the finals play 5 extra games. Everyone has to play 9 conference games, cut the season to 11 games, eliminate the conference championship. so the teams making it to the finals play 16 games. Currently they play 12 games, plus the conference championship, plus 3-4 playoff games, they are at 15-16 with the current set up.

The problem is the bowls have lost all their meaning, players opt into the portal in December, and the team that qualified for the bowl is a shell of the team that won 8-10 games. A playoff format using the bowls would help 16 bowls a whole lot. You can still have the others for the teams that don't make the playoffs, heck you could even turn the rest of the bowls into an NIT type of format. The lessor bowls are dying, a playoff format could help save them. A 32 team format would require 31 sites for all the games, all meaningful games.

 

[Coug90]

Seriously though, imagine the hype building 3-2-1 weeks out going into a 28 team tournament.

The revenue this tournament would generate would be immense. How much would the players get, I wonder?

I don’t agree with the argument that it makes regular season games meaningless either. North Carolina/Duke, Kentucky/Memphis, don’t have this problem in basketball. You are still jockeying for position and home field. Alabama and their fans still want to beat Georgia in the regular season. It just puts more teams in the conversation that normally wouldn’t be which is more exciting for everyone.

Baseball has too many damn games but it’s infinitely more exciting for more fan bases now since they’ve expanded the playoffs. When it used to be 4 teams, 3/4 of the league was out of it by September.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Look at what March Madness has done for basketball, it wouldn't be that difficult to replicate that in football. As Leach explained, everyone else has it figured out. they do it in High School, FCS has an expanded playoff, and the NFL has 14 out of 32 teams make the playoffs. You can use the bowls as playoff games. I say start with 32 teams, that means the teams that play in the finals play 5 extra games. Everyone has to play 9 conference games, cut the season to 11 games, eliminate the conference championship. so the teams making it to the finals play 16 games. Currently they play 12 games, plus the conference championship, plus 3-4 playoff games, they are at 15-16 with the current set up.

The problem is the bowls have lost all their meaning, players opt into the portal in December, and the team that qualified for the bowl is a shell of the team that won 8-10 games. A playoff format using the bowls would help 16 bowls a whole lot. You can still have the others for the teams that don't make the playoffs, heck you could even turn the rest of the bowls into an NIT type of format. The lessor bowls are dying, a playoff format could help save them. A 32 team format would require 31 sites for all the games, all meaningful games.

The huge difference between football and basketball is that you can play two games in a three day period in basketball. You can't do that in football. I do believe that we should go to a 16 team playoff sooner than later, but anything beyond that is going to be a tough sell. The only reason to go beyond 16 is to guarantee every conference champion a spot.

Of course, a 16 team playoff could take the 10 conference champs vs the top 6 at large teams. Too many egos for that to happen though.

 

[dgibbons]

I don’t agree with the argument that it makes regular season games meaningless either. North Carolina/Duke, Kentucky/Memphis, don’t have this problem in basketball. You are still jockeying for position and home field. Alabama and their fans still want to beat Georgia in the regular season. It just puts more teams in the conversation that normally wouldn’t be which is more exciting for everyone.

Baseball has too many damn games but it’s infinitely more exciting for more fan bases now since they’ve expanded the playoffs. When it used to be 4 teams, 3/4 of the league was out of it by September.

Depends on what you call a "problem." The ratings for a Duke-NC BB game are way lower than an Alabama-Auburn football game. Regular season media contracts for BB are way lower. The inventory of college football games is much lower: 12 regular season games; 134 schools. Basketball is 32ish games; 352 teams.

 

[roses04]

The huge difference between football and basketball is that you can play two games in a three day period in basketball. You can't do that in football. I do believe that we should go to a 16 team playoff sooner than later, but anything beyond that is going to be a tough sell. The only reason to go beyond 16 is to guarantee every conference champion a spot.

Of course, a 16 team playoff could take the 10 conference champs vs the top 6 at large teams. Too many egos for that to happen though.

The games will still be at least 7 days apart, just like the regular season, not that difficult to come up with a schedule, it would look something like this

32 team playoff, Regular season ends the last weekend of November( like it used to). Bye week the first week of December. 2nd weekend of December Round 1, 32 teams, 16 games, play Friday and Saturday, leave the NFL with Sunday. 3rd Week of December 16 teams 8 Games Friday and Saturday again. 4th week of December or New Years Day, 8 teams 4 big bowl games all the same day. First weekend in January 4 teams 2 games. ( must be at least 7 days after New Years day game, so there will probably be a bye weekend. Final game Mid January on a Monday night. By the way this year's Nation Championship will be played on January 20th,

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The games will still be at least 7 days apart, just like the regular season, not that difficult to come up with a schedule, it would look something like this

32 team playoff, Regular season ends the last weekend of November( like it used to). Bye week the first week of December. 2nd weekend of December Round 1, 32 teams, 16 games, play Friday and Saturday, leave the NFL with Sunday. 3rd Week of December 16 teams 8 Games Friday and Saturday again. 4th week of December or New Years Day, 8 teams 4 big bowl games all the same day. First weekend in January 4 teams 2 games. ( must be at least 7 days after New Years day game, so there will probably be a bye weekend. Final game Mid January on a Monday night. By the way this year's Nation Championship will be played on January 20th,

It's doable....but with conferences bloated the way that they are, the idea that there is a "regular season" champion of most conferences is kind of a joke. Those conferences are not going to give up their championship games all that easily....more so since losing the championship game isn't going to matter to the losing team. It's all about ego and money and that's going to be hard to stop.

The good thing about a larger playoff is that it gives teams like WSU a more achievable entry point into the party. Right now, with all of the politics of football, there's a good chance that an 11-1 WSU team could be on the outside looking in on a 16 team playoff....as ridiculous as that seems.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The games will still be at least 7 days apart, just like the regular season, not that difficult to come up with a schedule, it would look something like this

32 team playoff, Regular season ends the last weekend of November( like it used to). Bye week the first week of December. 2nd weekend of December Round 1, 32 teams, 16 games, play Friday and Saturday, leave the NFL with Sunday. 3rd Week of December 16 teams 8 Games Friday and Saturday again. 4th week of December or New Years Day, 8 teams 4 big bowl games all the same day. First weekend in January 4 teams 2 games. ( must be at least 7 days after New Years day game, so there will probably be a bye weekend. Final game Mid January on a Monday night. By the way this year's Nation Championship will be played on January 20th,

This would likely be the death of pretty much all bowls, other than them becoming these playoff games. Which might be better for them anyway. All these mickey mouse bowls would likely go away, and good riddance IMHO.

That said, 32 seems like a lot. Let's say the SEC and B1G get 3 each off the top. ACC and Big-12 get 2 each. That's 10. How about the G6 (yes it's 6 now) gets 2 but have championship games of sorts to determine the 2. Not sure how that works with 6 leagues, but I'm just spitballing here. Maybe the G6 contracts to become the G4. That leaves 4 at-large births for ND and the P4 to fight over. Total of 16. All teams, all leagues have to play only FBS teams or are ineligible for the playoffs.

 

[Coug90]

Depends on what you call a "problem." The ratings for a Duke-NC BB game are way lower than an Alabama-Auburn football game. Regular season media contracts for BB are way lower. The inventory of college football games is much lower: 12 regular season games; 134 schools. Basketball is 32ish games; 352 teams.

No shit Sherlock.

 

[Coug90]

It's doable....but with conferences bloated the way that they are, the idea that there is a "regular season" champion of most conferences is kind of a joke. Those conferences are not going to give up their championship games all that easily....more so since losing the championship game isn't going to matter to the losing team. It's all about ego and money and that's going to be hard to stop.

The good thing about a larger playoff is that it gives teams like WSU a more achievable entry point into the party. Right now, with all of the politics of football, there's a good chance that an 11-1 WSU team could be on the outside looking in on a 16 team playoff....as ridiculous as that seems.

If it gave them 3 extra playoff games that their teams were involved in they’d be stupid not to.

 

[Suudy]

The problem is the bowls have lost all their meaning, players opt into the portal in December, and the team that qualified for the bowl is a shell of the team that won 8-10 games. A playoff format using the bowls would help 16 bowls a whole lot. You can still have the others for the teams that don't make the playoffs, heck you could even turn the rest of the bowls into an NIT type of format. The lessor bowls are dying, a playoff format could help save them. A 32 team format would require 31 sites for all the games, all meaningful games.

I agree with this. It seems the only post-season games where players don't opt-out are those that have a path to the NC. Having a tournament would keep players in as long as they believe they have a shot at the NC. But that's the rub. Are bottom seeded teams essentially confirming their status if players don't believe they will make the NC so why bother, and then they are doomed to lose anyway? We probably will never see an upset of a top seed because a) they are really are unable to complete or b) the become unable to compete because their players are opting out or are lured away by NIL after the regular season and before the post-season. It seems most players care more for $$$ than for team loyalty, and this might make that much more obvious.

 

[UberCougars]

28 team tournament bracket with 4 first round bye’s takes 5 rounds to find a winner.

Same with 32 team bracket with no first round bye’s.

 

[CougPatrol]

The original fear of a 36 team super league seems to have waned. There’s too much much money left on the table if the bottom 85 programs are left out.

It won’t be as large as the NCAA basketball tournament, but I can certainly envision a 24 or 32 team playoff. The total number of games played would be kept down by expanding the number of 1st round BYES. Unlike basketball, the teams barely squeaking into the tournament aren’t going to be making a Cinderella run though the bracket. They’ll be out after 1, maybe 2 extra games.