Entire KSU Football team boycotts

[AncientCoug]

Im going off the original tweet, which is much more direct and not even really close to the quotes in the article. The tweet is a direct threat of "do what we say or else"; read it yourself.

That being said, I'm glad they are having constructive conversations, but again why are we enabling cancel culture and threats as a way to move a conversation forward? Not only that, but they are operating under the very popular mindset that has been moved forward by the media and others, that either you're a victim or a perpetrator - there is no middle ground. Either you're with us or you're against us. A popular refrain on twitter has been "there is no being 'non-racist'; either you're anti-racist or you're against us." A) wtf does that even mean? and B) that's simply not true for many reasons - BUT - that is the conversation.

Same thing was said in 2016 - "either you're voting for Hilary or you're deplorable" Shit man, thanks for the heads up - I wasn't going to vote for Hilary because I don't agree with her foreign policy and think its bad for the US on many levels, but come to find out I'm really a big piece of shit, racist, misogynist, homophobe. Thanks for the heads up. (And no, I didn't put the current POTUS in office either, so stop with your assumptions.) Identity politics is bad for the US and bad for us coming together as a nation for the common good, but its how both parties operate now and the media just stirs the pot to keep it going. But I digress.

I'm also curious why KSU needs to say anything? Are they afraid that the institution they are attending is a secret lair of racists? If so, why did they go there in the first place? If not, why do they need affirmation of what they already know? Why do they need a public affirmation? What's the end game?

I’m not on Twitter. Don’t want to be exposed to subversives.

 

[sylean]

the American people deserve what they want and they're going to get it good and hard....

be careful what you wish for.....

you want teenagers and early 20 somethings dictating how a college or team is run?.......really......

and to think my father threw his future away when he snuck into the Navy at the start of WW2 as a 17yro.....

 

[AncientCoug]

the American people deserve what they want and they're going to get it good and hard....

be careful what you wish for.....

you want teenagers and early 20 somethings dictating how a college or team is run?.......really......

and to think my father threw his future away when he snuck into the Navy at the start of WW2 as a 17yro.....

Actually, I personally would welcome some younger leadership. My generation (boomers) have effed things up pretty badly, I think. Stands to reason that if some 17 year olds were savvy enough to fight in and survive WWII, some 22 year olds are savvy enough to have their voices heard today.

 

[dgibbons]

Actually, I personally would welcome some younger leadership. My generation (boomers) have effed things up pretty badly, I think. Stands to reason that if some 17 year olds were savvy enough to fight in and survive WWII, some 22 year olds are savvy enough to have their voices heard today.

We know. We know.

(75 percent sarcastic).

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Im going off the original tweet, which is much more direct and not even really close to the quotes in the article. The tweet is a direct threat of "do what we say or else"; read it yourself.

That being said, I'm glad they are having constructive conversations, but again why are we enabling cancel culture and threats as a way to move a conversation forward? Not only that, but they are operating under the very popular mindset that has been moved forward by the media and others, that either you're a victim or a perpetrator - there is no middle ground. Either you're with us or you're against us. A popular refrain on twitter has been "there is no being 'non-racist'; either you're anti-racist or you're against us." A) wtf does that even mean? and B) that's simply not true for many reasons - BUT - that is the conversation.

Same thing was said in 2016 - "either you're voting for Hilary or you're deplorable" Shit man, thanks for the heads up - I wasn't going to vote for Hilary because I don't agree with her foreign policy and think its bad for the US on many levels, but come to find out I'm really a big piece of shit, racist, misogynist, homophobe. Thanks for the heads up. (And no, I didn't put the current POTUS in office either, so stop with your assumptions.) Identity politics is bad for the US and bad for us coming together as a nation for the common good, but its how both parties operate now and the media just stirs the pot to keep it going. But I digress.

I'm also curious why KSU needs to say anything? Are the players afraid that the institution they are attending is a secret lair of racists? If so, why did they go there in the first place? If not, why do they need affirmation of what they already know? Why do they need a public affirmation? What's the end game?

Agree that identity politics is horrible.

I'm torn on the "threats" part. In order for real change to occur, there often must be a threat that makes someone take the requested change seriously. It is very rare for any person...or society....to make changes just for the sake of change. And when I say rare, I think it's really never. The NFL initially said that it was ok for players to kneel because the threat of player unhappiness was real and they wanted to alleviate it. At that time, the threats from corporate sponsors and fans to retaliate against the NFL for allowing the kneeling was a greater threat and they capitulated to that threat and made rules that discouraged kneeling. The players lacked the personal investment in the issue at the time and didn't pursue that fight. Both actions by the NFL were driven by threats.

The problem with threats is when they are attached to fundamentally flawed causes that don't have a clear end purpose that is subject to change. The KSU player "threat" is a good example. Most of the pushback that I'm seeing is that people feel that they are going to go too far with changes that will produce more problems than a solution. The whole statue debacle is another example. The majority of Americans don't care if every confederate statue gets knocked down or removed, but they get pissed off when protesters aren't satisfied and want to start taking down every statue that predates the Civil Rights Movement. When Washington and Lincoln become the targets, reasonable people start thinking, "slow your roll, buddy".

A focused threat by a group with a clear purpose is one thing. A general threat with no end game in sight is a problem.

On your question about KSU and their need to say anything, I'll just say that, in general, people that live in Kansas harbor opinions of minorities that would be considered quite racist by other parts of the country. My daughter refuses to even consider KSU because of the viewpoints of some of the KSU fans that we know. You ask are the players afraid that they go to a school with a bunch of racists? I'm not going to say that KSU is full of racists, but there are plenty of people that love to root for black players wearing the school uniform but wouldn't have those same guys over to their house for dinner after they graduate and feel quite comfortable making racist jokes about them. As to the question of why did they pick KSU? Well, many of them may not have known better, some of them probably figure that racism exists on every campus and some of them fall into the "I didn't have a better option". Dozens, maybe hundreds, of actresses have sucked Harvey Weinstein's cock because they felt that it was the only way to get a job. When it all finally came to light, Weinstein went down hard because the world was finally able to acknowledge that it was objectively wrong for actresses to be forced to do that even though the "casting couch" has been a well known problem for decades. KSU is no more racist than any other university, they are just the ones being highlighted here.

I feel that the confluence of events in the last week of May where the death of George Floyd, Central Park Karen and the murder of Ahmaud Arbery all came to light in a very short period has finally created the situation where the racism that has been simmering for the past decade is finally becoming truly unacceptable. Corporations, actors, athletes, civil leaders, and communities are all finally realizing that the threats of inaction are greater than the threat of acting. The way that those three events played out really focused the lens of our country on the danger of being a black man in America. Every couple days now, we hear of a story from the past few years where a black man was murdered by police where their primary crime was merely being black. The truth is, of course, more muddled than that. Many of the "victims" were criminals who failed to comply with police orders and took actions that led to their deaths, unwarranted or not. Some cops are just terrible human beings that aren't racist but just bad people in general. Poor white Americans face many of the same challenges that black Americans face, but nobody is trying to champion their cause. And of course, human nature is to take, take, take until people push back, so we already have seen instances where the demands are unreasonable and will be problematic if instituted.

From where I sit, we have a responsibility to be supportive of the attempts to make our country to be a better place with a new awareness of racism. Our country made huge strides towards racial equality in the 60's and it feels like we are at a critical juncture where we are ready to make another leap ahead. We should embrace that rather than fight it. At the same time, we need to make sure that the gains being made are towards actual equality and not just fostering a different inequality. White Americans need the assurance that they aren't going to be mistreated "because you had your time". I'm sick of that argument. My kids should not be put at a disadvantage because of some well intentioned but misguided social correction. Still, I understand that some discomfort as change occurs is inevitable. Knowing how to mitigate the pushback and frustration is what has killed or reduced the impacts of previous efforts to reform. Who knows if we'll get it right this time. Probably not.

My apologies for the long rant.

 

[CougEd]

the American people deserve what they want and they're going to get it good and hard....

be careful what you wish for.....

you want teenagers and early 20 somethings dictating how a college or team is run?.......really......

and to think my father threw his future away when he snuck into the Navy at the start of WW2 as a 17yro.....

Sylean, may I ask the question why did your father snuck into the Navy at 17? And what is it the American people get what they deserve to get?

 

[CougEd]

What if he's not expelled?
Well, I'll tell you what. You'll have a whole bunch of 18-22 year old young men who have thrown away ten's of thousands of dollars in free education not to mention future careers.

Over an offensive tweet.

But that's their choice.

You are correct it is their choice. But for some these are important matters. When was the last time anyone really stood up for their beliefs. MLK was the only person I remember dying for what they believed in, and he knew he was going to die. Ghandi? The list is pretty small.

There are a group that will die for our country in our military. The kids in the 60's were on the right side of history. People who marched with King were on the ride side of history. I think Kap in 20 years will be on the right side of history.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Agree that identity politics is horrible.

I'm torn on the "threats" part. In order for real change to occur, there often must be a threat that makes someone take the requested change seriously. It is very rare for any person...or society....to make changes just for the sake of change. And when I say rare, I think it's really never. The NFL initially said that it was ok for players to kneel because the threat of player unhappiness was real and they wanted to alleviate it. At that time, the threats from corporate sponsors and fans to retaliate against the NFL for allowing the kneeling was a greater threat and they capitulated to that threat and made rules that discouraged kneeling. The players lacked the personal investment in the issue at the time and didn't pursue that fight. Both actions by the NFL were driven by threats.

The problem with threats is when they are attached to fundamentally flawed causes that don't have a clear end purpose that is subject to change. The KSU player "threat" is a good example. Most of the pushback that I'm seeing is that people feel that they are going to go too far with changes that will produce more problems than a solution. The whole statue debacle is another example. The majority of Americans don't care if every confederate statue gets knocked down or removed, but they get pissed off when protesters aren't satisfied and want to start taking down every statue that predates the Civil Rights Movement. When Washington and Lincoln become the targets, reasonable people start thinking, "slow your roll, buddy".

A focused threat by a group with a clear purpose is one thing. A general threat with no end game in sight is a problem.

On your question about KSU and their need to say anything, I'll just say that, in general, people that live in Kansas harbor opinions of minorities that would be considered quite racist by other parts of the country. My daughter refuses to even consider KSU because of the viewpoints of some of the KSU fans that we know. You ask are the players afraid that they go to a school with a bunch of racists? I'm not going to say that KSU is full of racists, but there are plenty of people that love to root for black players wearing the school uniform but wouldn't have those same guys over to their house for dinner after they graduate and feel quite comfortable making racist jokes about them. As to the question of why did they pick KSU? Well, many of them may not have known better, some of them probably figure that racism exists on every campus and some of them fall into the "I didn't have a better option". Dozens, maybe hundreds, of actresses have sucked Harvey Weinstein's cock because they felt that it was the only way to get a job. When it all finally came to light, Weinstein went down hard because the world was finally able to acknowledge that it was objectively wrong for actresses to be forced to do that even though the "casting couch" has been a well known problem for decades. KSU is no more racist than any other university, they are just the ones being highlighted here.

I feel that the confluence of events in the last week of May where the death of George Floyd, Central Park Karen and the murder of Ahmaud Arbery all came to light in a very short period has finally created the situation where the racism that has been simmering for the past decade is finally becoming truly unacceptable. Corporations, actors, athletes, civil leaders, and communities are all finally realizing that the threats of inaction are greater than the threat of acting. The way that those three events played out really focused the lens of our country on the danger of being a black man in America. Every couple days now, we hear of a story from the past few years where a black man was murdered by police where their primary crime was merely being black. The truth is, of course, more muddled than that. Many of the "victims" were criminals who failed to comply with police orders and took actions that led to their deaths, unwarranted or not. Some cops are just terrible human beings that aren't racist but just bad people in general. Poor white Americans face many of the same challenges that black Americans face, but nobody is trying to champion their cause. And of course, human nature is to take, take, take until people push back, so we already have seen instances where the demands are unreasonable and will be problematic if instituted.

From where I sit, we have a responsibility to be supportive of the attempts to make our country to be a better place with a new awareness of racism. Our country made huge strides towards racial equality in the 60's and it feels like we are at a critical juncture where we are ready to make another leap ahead. We should embrace that rather than fight it. At the same time, we need to make sure that the gains being made are towards actual equality and not just fostering a different inequality. White Americans need the assurance that they aren't going to be mistreated "because you had your time". I'm sick of that argument. My kids should not be put at a disadvantage because of some well intentioned but misguided social correction. Still, I understand that some discomfort as change occurs is inevitable. Knowing how to mitigate the pushback and frustration is what has killed or reduced the impacts of previous efforts to reform. Who knows if we'll get it right this time. Probably not.

My apologies for the long rant.

In several of your posts you've mentioned how passively racist Kansas is, and tbh I by and large disregarded it. I've marginalized white racist groups as being fringe, which I think they are, but what I've seen lately is that their views are not. My brain reels as I watch Karens across the US straight up let their racist flags fly high. Racist iIn secret north Idaho compounds - yes! In mainstreet USA - apparently yes as well, much to my dismay.

I want to be an ally, I really do, but when the cause has been appropriated by the likes of Nancy Pelosi and other screaming extremists, it makes it hard to know where to start. I'm believe I'm representative of most of America (not just white America) when I say that I mind my business and try to treat all people the same, regardless of color, ethnicity, etc. I also believe that race relations between most Americans isn't as bad as anyone - the media, BLM, etc - would have us believe. I believe that policing in the US is in need of reform and demilitarization. But again, identity politics dictates the narrative of all these topics, and for many people myself included, it makes having a conversation either extremely difficult or a non-starter. I think we also need to have to honest conversation that we'll never rid the world of racism or hate (or Covid 19, as the utopian dream seems to be... again I digress), but that by themselves they are mostly harmless. What we have to ensure is that racism and hate don't gain power and affect policy.

Again, there are so many moving parts to this conversation, and so many chefs in the kitchen that I feel there is a real danger for huge pushback and no real change to be made.

 

[CougEd]

Im going off the original tweet, which is much more direct and not even really close to the quotes in the article. The tweet is a direct threat of "do what we say or else"; read it yourself.

That being said, I'm glad they are having constructive conversations, but again why are we enabling cancel culture and threats as a way to move a conversation forward? Not only that, but they are operating under the very popular mindset that has been moved forward by the media and others, that either you're a victim or a perpetrator - there is no middle ground. Either you're with us or you're against us. A popular refrain on twitter has been "there is no being 'non-racist'; either you're anti-racist or you're against us." A) wtf does that even mean? and B) that's simply not true for many reasons - BUT - that is the conversation.

Same thing was said in 2016 - "either you're voting for Hilary or you're deplorable" Shit man, thanks for the heads up - I wasn't going to vote for Hilary because I don't agree with her foreign policy and think its bad for the US on many levels, but come to find out I'm really a big piece of shit, racist, misogynist, homophobe. Thanks for the heads up. (And no, I didn't put the current POTUS in office either, so stop with your assumptions.) Identity politics is bad for the US and bad for us coming together as a nation for the common good, but its how both parties operate now and the media just stirs the pot to keep it going. But I digress.

I'm also curious why KSU needs to say anything? Are the players afraid that the institution they are attending is a secret lair of racists? If so, why did they go there in the first place? If not, why do they need affirmation of what they already know? Why do they need a public affirmation? What's the end game?

Bleed...so much here to unpack, but the ole cancel culture. First, the confederate flag, do you have a problem with that being removed? The statues like the general who tried to break away from the union (some would call the south traders) should they have been was erected some 60 years after the war ended? That would be like me erecting a statute of Hitler in 2004. Since Hitler and Hussein are part of our history, should statutes have been erected of each of those men? I just don't see how removing the flag and the statutes that are hurtful and represented the worst of country why that is canceling our past. If you say we need to be reminded what civil war brings, it does make me scratch my head, but that is just how I view it.

Is our sports history being canceled when they change the name of Safeco Field, Martin Stadium, or any other "monument", is our history being canceled? It is an interesting concept.

As to comments about political discussions. I get a text from my daughters aau bball coach almost daily. I hear things like libetard, you are a cop killer, you support antifa, etc etc. I am for open borders he claims because of how I vote. He claims I am for defunding the police because I think there is a problem with the justice system and the treatment of people of color. I am a socialist he claims.

But let me give you a chuckle. He was the first person with his hand out when the gov sent out checks. I did not accept any money. His son who is my oldest daughter age claimed unemployment even tho he lived at home, has no expenses. He felt like it was his "right". Someone told my daughter she should file for unemployment. I told her there is no way in hell that she was, that she wasn't even supposed to be working while in college, that her college is funded, as is her eating and living expenses.

So it is funny a staunch republican would call me a socialist with this information. Oh, BTW, from 2010 to 2016 he never made a mortgage payment, lived off others and finally lost his house. It certainly is interesting if nothing else.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

In several of your posts you've mentioned how passively racist Kansas is, and tbh I by and large disregarded it. I've marginalized white racist groups as being fringe, which I think they are, but what I've seen lately is that their views are not. My brain reels as I watch Karens across the US straight up let their racist flags fly high. Racist iIn secret north Idaho compounds - yes! In mainstreet USA - apparently yes as well, much to my dismay.

I want to be an ally, I really do, but when the cause has been appropriated by the likes of Nancy Pelosi and other screaming extremists, it makes it hard to know where to start. I'm believe I'm representative of most of America (not just white America) when I say that I mind my business and try to treat all people the same, regardless of color, ethnicity, etc. I also believe that race relations between most Americans isn't as bad as anyone - the media, BLM, etc - would have us believe. I believe that policing in the US is in need of reform and demilitarization. But again, identity politics dictates the narrative of all these topics, and for many people myself included, it makes having a conversation either extremely difficult or a non-starter. I think we also need to have to honest conversation that we'll never rid the world of racism or hate (or Covid 19, as the utopian dream seems to be... again I digress), but that by themselves they are mostly harmless. What we have to ensure is that racism and hate don't gain power and affect policy.

Again, there are so many moving parts to this conversation, and so many chefs in the kitchen that I feel there is a real danger for huge pushback and no real change to be made.

Agree 100%. Most Americans aren't overtly racist. I pick on Kansas because I've heard so many shocking things in my 25 years here, but at the same time, most Kansans don't walk around trying to be racist and we as a nation have made huge strides since the 1960's. I agree that walking bobbleheads like Pelosi make it hard to take the liberal side of the equation seriously. I do believe that there are a lot of systemic issues out there that do create inequitable situations for black folks but a lot of those things have less to do with race than other factors and that muddles the discussion. Socioeconomic issues that plague black communities are often bigger drivers in the situation than skin color. As I said above, poor white Americans face many of those same hurdles and you rarely see anyone go to bat for them either. I'm one of very select few in my family that has been able to escape the bottom end of the income distribution chart.

 

[spongeworthy12]

Bleed...so much here to unpack, but the ole cancel culture. First, the confederate flag, do you have a problem with that being removed? The statues like the general who tried to break away from the union (some would call the south traders) should they have been was erected some 60 years after the war ended? That would be like me erecting a statute of Hitler in 2004. Since Hitler and Hussein are part of our history, should statutes have been erected of each of those men? I just don't see how removing the flag and the statutes that are hurtful and represented the worst of country why that is canceling our past. If you say we need to be reminded what civil war brings, it does make me scratch my head, but that is just how I view it.

Is our sports history being canceled when they change the name of Safeco Field, Martin Stadium, or any other "monument", is our history being canceled? It is an interesting concept.

As to comments about political discussions. I get a text from my daughters aau bball coach almost daily. I hear things like libetard, you are a cop killer, you support antifa, etc etc. I am for open borders he claims because of how I vote. He claims I am for defunding the police because I think there is a problem with the justice system and the treatment of people of color. I am a socialist he claims.

But let me give you a chuckle. He was the first person with his hand out when the gov sent out checks. I did not accept any money. His son who is my oldest daughter age claimed unemployment even tho he lived at home, has no expenses. He felt like it was his "right". Someone told my daughter she should file for unemployment. I told her there is no way in hell that she was, that she wasn't even supposed to be working while in college, that her college is funded, as is her eating and living expenses.

So it is funny a staunch republican would call me a socialist with this information. Oh, BTW, from 2010 to 2016 he never made a mortgage payment, lived off others and finally lost his house. It certainly is interesting if nothing else.

If they want to take down the confederate flag and other things that are offensive, fine. The problem is where does the line get drawn?

A older man in Portland got the shit kicked out of him for carrying an American flag at a rally and its on video. Is that ok?

People are getting fired for liking conservative tweets. Is that ok?

People are getting fired for voting for the "wrong" candidate. Is that ok?

They are now calling for statues of Jesus to be torn down.

If this continues, and I think it will, say goodbye to the first amendment. If someone disagrees with you, you risk getting cancelled.

 

[AncientCoug]

the American people deserve what they want and they're going to get it good and hard....

be careful what you wish for.....

you want teenagers and early 20 somethings dictating how a college or team is run?.......really......

and to think my father threw his future away when he snuck into the Navy at the start of WW2 as a 17yro.....

Actually, I’m ready for some younger leadership. My generation (boomers) have effed things up pretty badl

If they want to take down the confederate flag and other things that are offensive, fine. The problem is where does the line get drawn?

A older man in Portland got the shit kicked out of him for carrying an American flag at a rally and its on video. Is that ok?

People are getting fired for liking conservative tweets. Is that ok?

People are getting fired for voting for the "wrong" candidate. Is that ok?

They are now calling for statues of Jesus to be torn down.

If this continues, and I think it will, say goodbye to the first amendment. If someone disagrees with you, you risk getting cancelled.

Pretty sure the cancel culture started in the conservative ranks during the GWB administration. Examples are the Dixie Chicks, Bill Maher, and Dan Rather. I’m sure there were others. More currently, Kapernick was victimized by the conservative cancel culture for speaking (figuratively) his mind. So, you don’t get to snivel now just because it boomeranged on you.

 

[spongeworthy12]

Actually, I’m ready for some younger leadership. My generation (boomers) have effed things up pretty badl

Pretty sure the cancel culture started in the conservative ranks during the GWB administration. Examples are the Dixie Chicks, Bill Maher, and Dan Rather. I’m sure there were others. More currently, Kapernick was victimized by the conservative cancel culture for speaking (figuratively) his mind. So, you don’t get to snivel now just because it boomeranged on you.

I don't think it was this wide spread or this mainstream. Never even heard of it before now.

So you agree with people getting fired or getting their ass kicked because they have a different opinion than you. Got it.

 

[AncientCoug]

I don't think it was this wide spread or this mainstream. Never even heard of it before now.

So you agree with people getting fired or getting their ass kicked because they have a different opinion than you. Got it.

No actually I don’t. I’m just sayin what gets around comes around. Pendulums swing. Of course that means at some point in the future conservatives will be back to cancelling liberals that they don’t like. I won’t like it but I don’t expect I’ll be whining about it either.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I don't think it was this wide spread or this mainstream. Never even heard of it before now.

So you agree with people for getting fired or getting their ass kicked because they have a different opinion than you. Got it.

I don't necessarily agree with the tone of our ancient one's post.....but it is a valid point. Too often, cancel culture is only considered a problem when it violates a person's world view. If the cancel culture aligns with one's viewpoint, that's no longer cancel culture.....that's common sense and decency!

Too often, the term "cancel culture" is applied to something that has more to do with actually being decent to other human beings. Too often, people try to defend some pretty terrible behavior and beliefs by yelling, "Cancel Culture!".

 

[spongeworthy12]

Just last night I was at the bar wearing my Cougar hat..and this girl must have thought it was a MAGA hat and asked me if I was a Trump supporter. "You look like a Trump supporter. Whats your first and last name"

Naturally I told her to take a long walk off a short pier...but this is where we are at right now and it is very troubling.

 

[spongeworthy12]

I don't necessarily agree with the tone of our ancient one's post.....but it is a valid point. Too often, cancel culture is only considered a problem when it violates a person's world view. If the cancel culture aligns with one's viewpoint, that's no longer cancel culture.....that's common sense and decency!

Too often, the term "cancel culture" is applied to something that has more to do with actually being decent to other human beings. Too often, people try to defend some pretty terrible behavior and believes by yelling, "Cancel Culture!".

It doesn't matter the label given to the behavior I was describing in my post. That doesn't take away from the fact that it is happening and it is wrong.

In Ancient Coug's post, were average Joe's and Jane's losing their jobs for voting for the "wrong" candidate?

This is a recent phenomenon and it being done by the left.

 

[CougEd]

If they want to take down the confederate flag and other things that are offensive, fine. The problem is where does the line get drawn?

A older man in Portland got the shit kicked out of him for carrying an American flag at a rally and its on video. Is that ok?

People are getting fired for liking conservative tweets. Is that ok?

People are getting fired for voting for the "wrong" candidate. Is that ok?

They are now calling for statues of Jesus to be torn down.

If this continues, and I think it will, say goodbye to the first amendment. If someone disagrees with you, you risk getting cancelled.

The problem is things never go back to center right away.

Sponge I can ask you similar questions. When you represent yourself or an employer you have the right to say what you want. You can call woman the C word if you want. (just let me know if there are any consequences if you do) You can like whatever you want on Facebook or Twitter. You can go out drinking with Price at Alabama and make public comments. But there will be consequences. When the kid from WSU was down in Charlottesville marching saying Jews will not replace us, he exercised his first amendment speech. But clearly it came with a backlash.

Again, just me but that is all a distraction.

 

[CougEd]

It doesn't matter the label given to the behavior I was describing in my post. That doesn't take away from the fact that it is happening and it is wrong.

In Ancient Coug's post, were average Joe's and Jane's losing their jobs for voting for the "wrong" candidate?

This is a recent phenomenon and it being done by the left.

There is a specific reason ballots are private. And if you think this badgering is simply a left phenomenon we clearly aren't running in the same circles.

 

[spongeworthy12]

The problem is things never go back to center right away.

Sponge I can ask you similar questions. When you represent yourself or an employer you have the right to say what you want. You can call woman the C word if you want. (just let me know if there are any consequences if you do) You can like whatever you want on Facebook or Twitter. You can go out drinking with Price at Alabama and make public comments. But there will be consequences. When the kid from WSU was down in Charlottesville marching saying Jews will not replace us, he exercised his first amendment speech. But clearly it came with a backlash.

Again, just me but that is all a distraction.

Calling a woman the C word is not the same thing as voting for the "Wrong" candidate and being fired for that or for carrying an American flag and getting the crap beaten out of you.

One deserves consequences. The other does not.

And yes, you can wear a Biden hat here and not have a problem. I don't own a MAGA hat...but if I did and wanted to wear it, I shouldn't have to fear for my life.

You don't have that same issue in red states if you were to wear a Biden hat. If you did, I would certainly say something about it.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Actually, I’m ready for some younger leadership. My generation (boomers) have effed things up pretty badl

Pretty sure the cancel culture started in the conservative ranks during the GWB administration. Examples are the Dixie Chicks, Bill Maher, and Dan Rather. I’m sure there were others. More currently, Kapernick was victimized by the conservative cancel culture for speaking (figuratively) his mind. So, you don’t get to snivel now just because it boomeranged on you.

Sorry man, but cancel culture is the love child of the left wing media and social media run amok. Social media as we know it didn't exist during GWB. Dixie Chicks got cancelled by their own fans, not a mob of angry twitter users (bc twitter didn't exist...) Dan Rather is a liar and a prime example of why the media/ news sucks in the country. And last I checked, Maher still has a weekly show on HBO, so not sure where that one is coming from.

 

[spongeworthy12]

Sorry man, but cancel culture is the love child of the left wing media and social media run amok. Social media as we know it didn't exist during GWB. Dixie Chicks got cancelled by their own fans, not a mob of angry twitter users (bc twitter didn't exist...) Dan Rather is a liar and a prime example of why the media/ news sucks in the country. And last I checked, Maher still has a weekly show on HBO, so not sure where that one is coming from.

And to add to that, there is a big difference between having your fans deciding not to buy your stuff because they don't like your political views vs being fired by someone because you liked a FB post. Big difference.

 

[CougEd]

And to add to that, there is a big difference between having your fans deciding not to buy your stuff because they don't like your political views vs being fired by someone because you liked a FB post. Big difference.

Sponge...yesterday Trump tweeted a shout out to his fans and in the first 8 seconds a guy on a cart yells white power. If Leach "liked" that tweet should his job be in jeopardy? And for anyone reading that I said Leach liked the tweet don't go there.

I am just wondering where the line is because I think people are having a tough time getting there.

 

[Observer11]

Sorry man, but cancel culture is the love child of the left wing media and social media run amok. Social media as we know it didn't exist during GWB. Dixie Chicks got cancelled by their own fans, not a mob of angry twitter users (bc twitter didn't exist...) Dan Rather is a liar and a prime example of why the media/ news sucks in the country. And last I checked, Maher still has a weekly show on HBO, so not sure where that one is coming from.

Maher actually is in favor of youngsters behaving like youngsters (ie - disrobing and exchanging body fluids) in order to build herd immunity.

He's also been a vocal critic of radical islam - though that's not a thing now.

Bill Maher would actually be a moderate these days.

 

[dgibbons]

Sylean, may I ask the question why did your father snuck into the Navy at 17? And what is it the American people get what they deserve to get?

The minimum enlistment age was 18.

Actually, I’m ready for some younger leadership. My generation (boomers) have effed things up pretty badl

Pretty sure the cancel culture started in the conservative ranks during the GWB administration. Examples are the Dixie Chicks, Bill Maher, and Dan Rather. I’m sure there were others. More currently, Kapernick was victimized by the conservative cancel culture for speaking (figuratively) his mind. So, you don’t get to snivel now just because it boomeranged on you.

The Dixie Chicks took a big dump on their own fan base, and not surprisingly they couldn't sell tickets afterward. That wasn't cancel culture.

 

[spongeworthy12]

Sponge...yesterday Trump tweeted a shout out to his fans and in the first 8 seconds a guy on a cart yells white power. If Leach "liked" that tweet should his job be in jeopardy? And for anyone reading that I said Leach liked the tweet don't go there.

I am just wondering where the line is because I think people are having a tough time getting there.

That has been my point. Where is the line going to be drawn?

I guess we just have to accept that carrying around an American flag or voting for the wrong candidate now has consequences.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Maher actually is in favor of youngsters behaving like youngsters (ie - disrobing and exchanging body fluids) in order to build herd immunity.

He's also been a vocal critic of radical islam - though that's not a thing now.

Bill Maher would actually be a moderate these days.

Not a huge fan. The more I've seen him, he seems to simply throw out hot takes to get reactions more than he holds an actual stance. And yes, his leaning are all over the board, from fiercely liberal on some things to super conservative on others. IIRC, he's big time 1A and is pretty against cancel culture and the hypocrites in hollywood.

 

[dgibbons]

Not a huge fan. The more I've seen him, he seems to simply throw out hot takes to get reactions more than he holds an actual stance. And yes, his leaning are all over the board, from fiercely liberal on some things to super conservative on others. IIRC, he's big time 1A and is pretty against cancel culture and the hypocrites in hollywood.

He says he's a libertarian. I don't watch his show much anymore. He seemed farther to the right when Obama was in office, and farther to the left after Trump was elected. Nothing wrong with being all over the board.

 

[CougEd]

That has been my point. Where is the line going to be drawn?

I guess we just have to accept that carrying around an American flag or voting for the wrong candidate now has consequences.

Or kneeling for the anthem. My guess is these things tend to come back a little from each side. The left of left seems to be the result of the tea party and the right of right.

And the MAGA hat, when you tell me what time frame they are speaking to I won't have an issue with the hat. 80's 20% interest rates. 70's Vietnam War, Watergate, and double digit inflation. 60's? Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam, Civil Rights and the burning of cities. 50's? Korean conflict, taxes about 50%. 40's? WWII? 6 million Jews exterminated? 30's? Depression. 20's prohibition.

I can see why people tend to get offended because it would seem to be more than a play on words. Or at least the extreme right sure seems to view it that way.

 

[AncientCoug]

Just last night I was at the bar wearing my Cougar hat..and this girl must have thought it was a MAGA hat and asked me if I was a Trump supporter. "You look like a Trump supporter. Whats your first and last name"

Naturally I told her to take a long walk off a short pier...but this is where we are at right now and it is very troubling.

She was probably trying to hit on you. I’m guessing you don’t get laid much.

 

[spongeworthy12]

She was probably trying to hit on you. I’m guessing you don’t get laid much.

No. I am just a bit more discerning than you.

 

[froropmkr72]

She was probably trying to hit on you. I’m guessing you don’t get laid much.

That's why I only where the gray hat these days.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Calling a woman the C word is not the same thing as voting for the "Wrong" candidate and being fired for that or for carrying an American flag and getting the crap beaten out of you.

One deserves consequences. The other does not.

And yes, you can wear a Biden hat here and not have a problem. I don't own a MAGA hat...but if I did and wanted to wear it, I shouldn't have to fear for my life.

You don't have that same issue in red states if you were to wear a Biden hat. If you did, I would certainly say something about it.

I will tell you that I have to pretend that I don't mind Trump because I don't want to lose clients. If I strolled into the office wearing a Biden 2020 hat.......I'd be looking for a new job.

 

[AncientCoug]

No. I am just a bit more discerning than you.

At my age discerning is not an option.

 

[random soul]

Agree 100%. Most Americans aren't overtly racist. I pick on Kansas because I've heard so many shocking things in my 25 years here, but at the same time, most Kansans don't walk around trying to be racist and we as a nation have made huge strides since the 1960's. I agree that walking bobbleheads like Pelosi make it hard to take the liberal side of the equation seriously. I do believe that there are a lot of systemic issues out there that do create inequitable situations for black folks but a lot of those things have less to do with race than other factors and that muddles the discussion. Socioeconomic issues that plague black communities are often bigger drivers in the situation than skin color. As I said above, poor white Americans face many of those same hurdles and you rarely see anyone go to bat for them either. I'm one of very select few in my family that has been able to escape the bottom end of the income distribution chart.

I think the terms 'racist' and 'bigoted' get conflates a lot. The bigots are often easy to spot and suck up most of the oxygen. Racism is more systemic, more subtle, more complex, and because of its far larger scale, often more dangerous. I think a lot of white folks feel personally attacked when racism becomes the topic because they don't think of themselves that way or because they feel like they're being blamed directly for 600 years of systemic exploitation that they had no personal part in designing. When I was a teenager I felt that way, even though intellectually I could nibble at the context without really interrogating the reaction itself. What I came to learn over time is that racism is far less about slurs and feelings and far more about material outcomes that come from deliberate historical policy choices, with measurable effects on wealth, education, health and life expectancy, interactions with the justice system, and on and on. He won't be everyone's cup of tea, and the title is deliberately provocative, but Ta'Nehisi Coates' essay In Defense of Reparations is a thorough, thoughtful treatment of the subject that deliberately leaves slavery out of the equation. You can Google it if you're curious and want something to chew on (less the policy proposal and more the context he provides for the topic)

 

[random soul]

Sorry man, but cancel culture is the love child of the left wing media and social media run amok. Social media as we know it didn't exist during GWB. Dixie Chicks got cancelled by their own fans, not a mob of angry twitter users (bc twitter didn't exist...) Dan Rather is a liar and a prime example of why the media/ news sucks in the country. And last I checked, Maher still has a weekly show on HBO, so not sure where that one is coming from.

Thought criminalization has a long and glorious 100 year history largely stemming from gov'ts looking for ways to enforce a more ideologically favorable population, frequently through fairly uh, direct means. First major US political figure I can think of that deployed it on a large scale was Woodrow Wilson. Next one was Tailgunner Joe, and he cancelled LOTS of folks. The Cold War and Civil Rights Era did not cover many with institutional sway in glory. And if Kap can be blackballed and the Dixie Chicks can get cancelled, somebody is allowed to give you a hard time for a MAGA hat. I would not expect a warm reception if I wore an 'Antifa Firearms Confiscation Officer' t-shirt at a Trump rally. And if I had a boss who was an NRA guy, and I was stupid enough to post rabble-rousing activity on a social media feed that he had access to, I couldn't be surprised if I suddenly needed a new gig. Politics in the US is a minefield. If you wanna dive in, watch where you step and own where it takes you. 1st Amendment is freedom from gov't retaliation for political speech. It's not freedom from broader consequences of political speech. If it could happen to Hollywood Marxists, it can happen to Proud Boys too.

 

[random soul]

oh, and I just found this and it's unironically wonderful in the current environment:

 

[CougEd]

The minimum enlistment age was 18.


The Dixie Chicks took a big dump on their own fan base, and not surprisingly they couldn't sell tickets afterward. That wasn't cancel culture.

Not a huge fan. The more I've seen him, he seems to simply throw out hot takes to get reactions more than he holds an actual stance. And yes, his leaning are all over the board, from fiercely liberal on some things to super conservative on others. IIRC, he's big time 1A and is pretty against cancel culture and the hypocrites in hollywood.

Bleed, am I to understand you correctly that your problem with Maher is his leanings are all over the board, that he doesn't check every liberal box, and then again doesn't check every conservative box? Hmmmm

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Bleed, am I to understand you correctly that your problem with Maher is his leanings are all over the board, that he doesn't check every liberal box, and then again doesn't check every conservative box? Hmmmm

Ed, you never cease to amaze with your lack of reading comprehension. Not sure why I'm entertaining you but my issue with Maher is that his opinions waffle towards the direction of whatever is going to get the biggest reaction. But just to be clear, I don't lose any sleep over what Maher does or doesn't do, I just don't find his show compelling enough to watch.

 

[dgibbons]

Ed, you never cease to amaze with your lack of reading comprehension. Not sure why I'm entertaining you but my issue with Maher is that his opinions waffle towards the direction of whatever is going to get the biggest reaction. But just to be clear, I don't lose any sleep over what Maher does or doesn't do, I just don't find his show compelling enough to watch.

You got hmmm out of it. Next time you might get a too funny.