First impacts of tariffs

[Cougar_Guy]

I have a lot of friend who are "educators" (they're not teachers anymore, get with it!) They have been brainwashed by the union that unless they strike every three years the work conditions will rival those detailed by Upton Sinclair. As a bonus, there are no metrics or standards for whether or not you're a good teacher, or hell... how about just a metric if you're a bad teacher so we can get rid of those. There's this overriding hive-mind that because they are there punching a clock and (some) have some take home work that they are actually doing something positive, which might be the case if there were an actual curriculum (there isn't in the state of WA, but then again that might be a blessing.) And FWIW, I adore these teachers I know, and I believe they work very hard at what they do. Many of them are hand-cuffed by policies that remove all accountability from students, and bars that have been lowered so far that kids hardly have to show up to get passing grades.

Its a sad situation that in entrenched in decades of poor policy and misguided leadership, all beholden to the almighty union.

This study has Washington ranked #4 in public education. https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/washington-public-education-study Washington usually enjoys a solid ranking in assessments of the education system. That's not to say there are no issues to resolve, but it's just uninformed to act like Washington has a bottom quartile education system.

I never understand why people decry unions. They are not perfect, as no institution is, but they are one of the few vehicles that allow working class people to have a voice and an impact in their workplace outcomes. Unions represent a crucial tool for achieving fairness, dignity, and security in the workplace, and it's no surprise that the decline of the middle class has coincided with a decline in union membership. It's also no shock that wealthy business owners like Musk or the Walton family or Bezos have worked so manically to keep their labor forces from unionizing because it would diminish their complete authoritarian rule over their companies. This is sad because well run unions and a healthy labor/management relationship actually help increase worker productivity and boost production overall.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

This study has Washington ranked #4 in public education. https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/washington-public-education-study Washington usually enjoys a solid ranking in assessments of the education system. That's not to say there are no issues to resolve, but it's just uninformed to act like Washington has a bottom quartile education system.

I never understand why people decry unions. They are not perfect, as no institution is, but they are one of the few vehicles that allow working class people to have a voice and an impact in their workplace outcomes. Unions represent a crucial tool for achieving fairness, dignity, and security in the workplace, and it's no surprise that the decline of the middle class has coincided with a decline in union membership. It's also no shock that wealthy business owners like Musk or the Walton family or Bezos have worked so manically to keep their labor forces from unionizing because it would diminish their complete authoritarian rule over their companies. This is sad because well run unions and a healthy labor/management relationship actually help increase worker productivity and boost production overall.

well there is the rub.

Show me a well run union. Of they were altruistic as you claim they wouldn't be run buy people making 6 figures.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

well there is the rub.

Show me a well run union. Of they were altruistic as you claim they wouldn't be run buy people making 6 figures.

NBA and MLB have pretty strong unions. As do the police and fire depts. Taihtsat

 

[Stretch 74]

This study has Washington ranked #4 in public education. https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/washington-public-education-study Washington usually enjoys a solid ranking in assessments of the education system. That's not to say there are no issues to resolve, but it's just uninformed to act like Washington has a bottom quartile education system.

I never understand why people decry unions. They are not perfect, as no institution is, but they are one of the few vehicles that allow working class people to have a voice and an impact in their workplace outcomes. Unions represent a crucial tool for achieving fairness, dignity, and security in the workplace, and it's no surprise that the decline of the middle class has coincided with a decline in union membership. It's also no shock that wealthy business owners like Musk or the Walton family or Bezos have worked so manically to keep their labor forces from unionizing because it would diminish their complete authoritarian rule over their companies. This is sad because well run unions and a healthy labor/management relationship actually help increase worker productivity and boost production overall.

Wow, #4! Kinda like almost winning the tallest midget contest, isn't it? And going right back to the key issue I pointed out, the union isn't concerned about the welfare and best interest of the kids. And maybe WA could actually be #1 in the country if they were not wasting all those full days of instruction with their union demanded bullshit seminars/workshops.

BTW, one real negative I forgot to include about all those half days is the effects on parents. A normal week with 5 full days of instruction allows them to plan for normal transportation and the necessary child care. Half days screws that all up, forcing some parents to take time off from their own, make special arrangements that costs them money, or even leave the kids on their own, exposing them to possible danger. No union concern there at all.

Unions were something that was needed long ago. Today many arguments for unions are outdated, as such things like safety issues are now controlled and dictated by the government. And unions prospered in the old days when there were the company towns and there was not a lot of options to choose from as far as companies to work for. Today with the internet the possible options are greatly expanded, and competition for workers drives wages.

Teacher's unions are a particular irritant. As state employees, they end up funneling bushels of money to the political campaigns of the same people that decide the school funding. Conflict of interest much? And then what happens when they ILLEGALLY go on strike? (It is against the law in WA) Do they lose any wages? Do they get fined? Nope. Unlike when private sector workers go on strike and lose the wages for every day that they are gone from the workplace, the teachers never get fined (chickenshit district administrators and judges) and they end up getting their full pay. It is quite the racket.

I speak from experience. I hired into Boeing as a painter (IAM 751 hourly worker) for my first year there. Started early July and they went on strike October3rd, lasted 45 days. No making up those wages for Stretch, no sirree. Good thing I was able to make it through by doing a few side jobs, but I never made up those lost dollars.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

This study has Washington ranked #4 in public education. https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/washington-public-education-study Washington usually enjoys a solid ranking in assessments of the education system. That's not to say there are no issues to resolve, but it's just uninformed to act like Washington has a bottom quartile education system.

I never understand why people decry unions. They are not perfect, as no institution is, but they are one of the few vehicles that allow working class people to have a voice and an impact in their workplace outcomes. Unions represent a crucial tool for achieving fairness, dignity, and security in the workplace, and it's no surprise that the decline of the middle class has coincided with a decline in union membership. It's also no shock that wealthy business owners like Musk or the Walton family or Bezos have worked so manically to keep their labor forces from unionizing because it would diminish their complete authoritarian rule over their companies. This is sad because well run unions and a healthy labor/management relationship actually help increase worker productivity and boost production overall.

Hey Cougar Guy. 20 posts in 14 years? Stop by this loony bin more often.

That said, no, public employee unions are shit. In Washington, they make big bucks and get great pension and medical benefits. Starting salary for a novice K12 teacher? I think about $70K these days, for an 8.5-month job. all summers and every f-ing holiday known to man off? And our math scores are dropping? And they go on strike anyway? Why?

 

[froropmkr72]

Hey Cougar Guy. 20 posts in 14 years? Stop by this loony bin more often.

That said, no, public employee unions are shit. In Washington, they make big bucks and get great pension and medical benefits. Starting salary for a novice K12 teacher? I think about $70K these days, for an 8.5-month job. all summers and every f-ing holiday known to man off? And our math scores are dropping? And they go on strike anyway? Why?

Wow, have to say nice going. What do you think of charter schools?

 

[95coug]

This study has Washington ranked #4 in public education. https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/washington-public-education-study Washington usually enjoys a solid ranking in assessments of the education system. That's not to say there are no issues to resolve, but it's just uninformed to act like Washington has a bottom quartile education system.

I never understand why people decry unions. They are not perfect, as no institution is, but they are one of the few vehicles that allow working class people to have a voice and an impact in their workplace outcomes. Unions represent a crucial tool for achieving fairness, dignity, and security in the workplace, and it's no surprise that the decline of the middle class has coincided with a decline in union membership. It's also no shock that wealthy business owners like Musk or the Walton family or Bezos have worked so manically to keep their labor forces from unionizing because it would diminish their complete authoritarian rule over their companies. This is sad because well run unions and a healthy labor/management relationship actually help increase worker productivity and boost production overall.

The problem isn’t the rankings. The problem is that the bar keeps getting lower. Being #4 today is probably what would have been #15 or 20 25 years ago.

Being #4 isn’t impressive when your scores and success rates are continuing to fall. It just means you’re not failing as bad as other states.

 

[Cougar_Guy]

The education system more or less mirrors society in that it's an ecosystem of haves and have nots. Scores for kids in the top quartile have been going up whereas kids in the bottom quartile have been getting worse, and this divergence has caused the average score to go down. The worst have declined more than the best got better. Predictably, districts in poor areas tend to drag scores down on standardized tests.

I have kids in public school and my experience has been that they are taught more and taught concepts earlier than they were years ago. Basically, what used to be first grade has become kindergarten and schools are covering more ground than ever. Classes that were only available to high schoolers and now available in middle school. My son is taking AP courses as a freshman that you had to be a junior or senior to take when I was in school. So I would contest that the education system is worse or that the bar is being lowered.

But I think in general, there is less support of the schools from parent volunteers and the like, and there are also more families where kids are getting little to no support for their school journey at home. I'd venture a guess that has a lot to do with most households needing both parents to work to make ends meet.

 

[95coug]

The education system more or less mirrors society in that it's an ecosystem of haves and have nots. Scores for kids in the top quartile have been going up whereas kids in the bottom quartile have been getting worse, and this divergence has caused the average score to go down. The worst have declined more than the best got better. Predictably, districts in poor areas tend to drag scores down on standardized tests.

I have kids in public school and my experience has been that they are taught more and taught concepts earlier than they were years ago. Basically, what used to be first grade has become kindergarten and schools are covering more ground than ever. Classes that were only available to high schoolers and now available in middle school. My son is taking AP courses as a freshman that you had to be a junior or senior to take when I was in school. So I would contest that the education system is worse or that the bar is being lowered.

But I think in general, there is less support of the schools from parent volunteers and the like, and there are also more families where kids are getting little to no support for their school journey at home. I'd venture a guess that has a lot to do with most households needing both parents to work to make ends meet.

The problem that comes from 1st grade becoming kindergarten is that it means kids who are starting behind now are even further behind.
I’ve got a 3rd grader who’s at the front of her class. She grades out at a high 5th grade level in reading, but the teacher isn’t allowed to give her anything more than 2 grade levels ahead. Her teacher basically told us at her conference that she’s sleepwalking through her work, none of it is challenging. So, she’s just bored with school most of the time. The teacher has to spend all her time working with the kids who are struggling while mine just stagnates.

I don’t think there’s any doubt the bar is lower. Even those high resource kids are scoring lower than they did 20 years ago. The recent uptick was a few points and was marginally higher than pre-Covid. I can also tell you without a doubt and from direct experience that kids are finishing high school basically unable to write, and with little to no critical thinking skills. They can barely get through any sort of assessment that isn’t either true/false or multiple choice.

I can also tell you that my sophomore and 8th grader fit that description too. Their grades are excellent, but neither of them can write a coherent paragraph. Part of that is the dumb ass way they’re being taught - the 8th grader had a writing assignment recently that was a persuasive paper, and they were supposed to start with the conclusion. He didn’t know how to end a paper before he started it. I told him to just write the whole thing and turn it in in pieces.

Too many of their teachers are now locked into process and how kids do things rather than whether they can solve problems and get the right answer. That’s wrong.

 

[BSpike76]

The problem that comes from 1st grade becoming kindergarten is that it means kids who are starting behind now are even further behind.
I’ve got a 3rd grader who’s at the front of her class. She grades out at a high 5th grade level in reading, but the teacher isn’t allowed to give her anything more than 2 grade levels ahead. Her teacher basically told us at her conference that she’s sleepwalking through her work, none of it is challenging. So, she’s just bored with school most of the time. The teacher has to spend all her time working with the kids who are struggling while mine just stagnates.

I don’t think there’s any doubt the bar is lower. Even those high resource kids are scoring lower than they did 20 years ago. The recent uptick was a few points and was marginally higher than pre-Covid. I can also tell you without a doubt and from direct experience that kids are finishing high school basically unable to write, and with little to no critical thinking skills. They can barely get through any sort of assessment that isn’t either true/false or multiple choice.

I can also tell you that my sophomore and 8th grader fit that description too. Their grades are excellent, but neither of them can write a coherent paragraph. Part of that is the dumb ass way they’re being taught - the 8th grader had a writing assignment recently that was a persuasive paper, and they were supposed to start with the conclusion. He didn’t know how to end a paper before he started it. I told him to just write the whole thing and turn it in in pieces.

Too many of their teachers are now locked into process and how kids do things rather than whether they can solve problems and get the right answer. That’s wrong.

Your 3rd grader sounds like my granddaughter. She started writing a novel in 5th grade, out of boredom. Every once in a while she misses quotation marks, but she writes well. She finished her first 360 page novel and has decided to make it a series. She was reading As I Lay Dying( aka As I Die Reading) last year in 7th grade.

 

[Stretch 74]

The education system more or less mirrors society in that it's an ecosystem of haves and have nots. Scores for kids in the top quartile have been going up whereas kids in the bottom quartile have been getting worse, and this divergence has caused the average score to go down. The worst have declined more than the best got better. Predictably, districts in poor areas tend to drag scores down on standardized tests.

I have kids in public school and my experience has been that they are taught more and taught concepts earlier than they were years ago. Basically, what used to be first grade has become kindergarten and schools are covering more ground than ever. Classes that were only available to high schoolers and now available in middle school. My son is taking AP courses as a freshman that you had to be a junior or senior to take when I was in school. So I would contest that the education system is worse or that the bar is being lowered.

But I think in general, there is less support of the schools from parent volunteers and the like, and there are also more families where kids are getting little to no support for their school journey at home. I'd venture a guess that has a lot to do with most households needing both parents to work to make ends meet.

About 20 years ago I worked with a gal that was a Cougar grad, really nice gal, had been a math teacher prior to coming to work at Boeing. Had a discussion one time about the teaching and discovered how she went about it. All of the daily assignments and worksheets were done like this- every paper that was turned in got a check mark in the grade book. The answers were not checked, and it didn't even matter if every answer the kid got was wrong, they still got a check. Lazy! How do you know if a kid is having problems understanding the process and techniques if you don't actually grade the papers? And how is the kid going to do well on the few tests that were given if he/she isn't grasping the concepts as they build up throughout the school year? The answer is that they will not do well. Plus, if grades are assigned on a curve instead of 90/80/70/60% achievement standards kids with what should be failing grades end up with C's and D's.

So that is simply one anecdotal example, but I can confirm that my wife knew several teachers in Tahoma that operated the same way. Meanwhile, it was a rare night when she would not have papers to grade on her own time at home.

I recall a story in the paper (PI or Times, not sure which) about how Garfield HS (I think that was the school) had like 33 valedictorians for graduations because they all had 4.0 or higher GPA's. Seriously? Are you going to argue that there wasn't some serious grade inflation going on there? My HS had a graduating class of just under 200 and I don't think we had a single grad with a 4.0 for their entire career. Close to it, but everyone would end up with a class or two that just wasn't up their alley.