I take it that Barber wasn't the kid throwing the haymaker in teh vidoe. What ever happened to that player
Good news for a change
- Thread starter dgibbons
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I take it that Barber wasn't the kid throwing the haymaker in teh vidoe. What ever happened to that player
Lots of people that are guilty of criminal actions get let off by juries for a variety of reasons. My wife sat on a jury where a guy was arrested and charged for a petty drug possession offense. The police didn't do a good job of documenting the event, so even though everyone knew that the guy was guilty.....they let him walk. I had a friend in Yakima sit on a jury where a guy was arrested for possession of a firearm when he had less then 90 days left on his five years of parole. It was very obvious that he was guilty. However, because of again, poor documentation, combined with the fact that the guy had made it almost 5 years without an issue, the jury let the dude walk.
Whether Barber was guilty of a crime worth going to jail for isn't really worth arguing at this point, because frankly, the other guy was a drunk a-hole too. That doesn't change the fact that Barber was a punk ass thug who beat the crap out of a dude half his size because he felt that he needed to prove something. That was just a giant CF of a summer with way too many players showing incredibly bad judgement. I don't know what was in the water, but it was just a mess. At this point, I'm glad that Barber wasn't convicted because I wouldn't wish a criminal record on any fellow Coug, but I hope he did learn his lesson that going through life beating people up is a stupid path to take. Walking away that day would have been the far better choice.
No question . Three of the four were while a D 2 coach was building his name and brand . Also UW at the time was a top five team in the country and on a roll.
I would hope a coach with 14 years of D 1 coaching would have five games more competitive than the last five .
And maybe it isn’t even the losing but the same game plan, the same execution , the same lack of hope . The last three years I had no hope going into those games based on past performance , and they held true.
But make no mistake about it , I personally would trade a 3-6 season and a blowout loss to air force for a 2-7 conference record but a win against the Huskies last year
You were (and still) unhappy when a 2-7 record in 2011 was traded for a 1-8 (and a win in Apple Cup).
Making the Apple Cup the one game that defines the season is a relic from an era when we were going to have a losing season and coaches needed to sell players/fans on something. It's time to leave this mentality in the past.
That's a good observation, but it's been hard to experience the complete and uncompetitive beat downs UW has given us the past six years. We'll see what happens, but I'm encouraged to see that Rolovich appears to take the Apple Cup much more seriously than Leach did.
Glad Cougar
The question is, trade Oregon State and one more conference win PLUS the bowl game for an Apple cup win. Not sure I’d make that trade. Knowing the outcome of the bowl game influences your argument. Personally, I love home conference wins. Any and all of them.
2 conference wins and a bowl game, for an Apple cup win, another home conference loss, and no bowl game. Hmmm, not sure I’d make that trade. I know the players and coaches wouldn’t either.
I'm one of those really long time Coug fans. FWIW, the AC probably means a bit more to me than any other game. But no way would I trade an AC win for two league losses. League record is more important. But the AC probably comes in second.
The only thing that really torques me off about AC games is when we show up unready to play. It has happened from time to time, and I put that on the staff. Sure, you can talk about senior leadership, tradition, and all that stuff, and there is some truth to it. But at the end of the day it is the staff's job to get a team ready to play, and that starts with the HC. Personally, I thought CML's approach to the rivalry game was flawed, and he lost a couple of games with what I thought was a better team. That is on Leach. We also lost games where I thought that on the balance, UW had a better team. I am more understanding for those games.
In the coaching world, everybody likes the occasional upset. But you have to win the ones you are supposed to win. CML did not do that when it came to UW. Nothing we say here will change that reality.
The only thing that really torques me off about AC games is when we show up unready to play. It has happened from time to time, and I put that on the staff. Sure, you can talk about senior leadership, tradition, and all that stuff, and there is some truth to it. But at the end of the day it is the staff's job to get a team ready to play, and that starts with the HC. Personally, I thought CML's approach to the rivalry game was flawed, and he lost a couple of games with what I thought was a better team. That is on Leach. We also lost games where I thought that on the balance, UW had a better team. I am more understanding for those games.
In the coaching world, everybody likes the occasional upset. But you have to win the ones you are supposed to win. CML did not do that when it came to UW. Nothing we say here will change that reality.
Neither did Doba, or Price on at least a couple of occasions. 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2006 leap immediately to mind.
True, but at least the Cougs were competitive in all of the games you mentioned with the possible exception of 2001. That's the part that really bothered me during the Leach regime– the inexcusable inability to compete vs. UW.
Glad Cougar
I miss Will Derting. "I hate everything about the huskies. I hate their players, their fans, their colors, the school and the city."
Not sure I have said much about 2012. I said I was unhappy with 2012? Hmmm. What else did I say?
Here is what I said about 2012. One, it surprised me that Leach and all of his experience didn't at least match what the prior coach did with basically the same team. I never said unhappy, I didn't even say disappointed. I did say the offense didn't match the hype in terms of offensive points that people on this board thought he was going achieve.
I did say I was surprised with an offense that takes three days to install that it struggled so much.
I did post I thought the S and C coach and the stuff that came out was not a good look three months into the job.
I was very clear because I watched Dennis struggle in his first year, and watched others struggle when implementing their culture and system; and that it takes time to get up and running and I was willing to give Leach the same time I was willing to give Wulff.
I never once said I was disappointed with 2012. Surprised, sure.
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Again, we were .333 in conference. While it gets us to a bowl game, I have never been the person with that record, whether it would have been Walden, Dennis, Price, that thinks that is a bowl team even if they go. That goes for any team.
For a guy who just joined in 4/18, and we didn't lose much in 18 how would you know what bothers me and what does not?
That’s something we disagree on. I’m not among the Coug fans who proclaim, “I don’t care if we go 1-11, as long as we beat the Huskies.”
Making the Apple Cup the one game that defines the season is a relic from an era when we were going to have a losing season and coaches needed to sell players/fans on something. It's time to leave this mentality in the past.
Maybe you missed this.
A bowl team is not a bowl team even if they go to a bowl. But teams that don't go to be bowls should be thought of as bowl teams because they had a tough non conference game. -Ed
I said that? I believe I said if Price had the same non conference schedule as leach he under the rules would have been bowl eligible.
Price was 3-11, and 6 of the losses were by 10 or more, including 55-10 in 1990, 56-21 in 1991, 26-3 in 1993, and 51-3 in 2000. And we were getting killed in 1996 before a late rally put it in OT. Worse, a couple of losses were when we were the better team by any measure other than the score.
Not sure I really think he was that competitive.
FWIW, 3 of the 4 examples you gave (1990, 1991 and 2000) were losses to Rose Bowl Championship teams including one that won a national championship. They were a combined 33-3 and all finished in the Top 5. In comparison, only one UW team that we faced under Leach finished in the Top 10 and only four total finished in the Top 25. So, we've been getting our ass handed to us by mediocre UW teams.
The bizarre losses to UW in 2002 and 2003 were games where you can't help but feel that we would have won if our QB's weren't more fit for a MASH unit instead of a football field. When you look at the overall score for UW vs WSU during the Price tenure, it was 31-19 on average. Under Leach, the average score has been 35-16. Looking at Price's time after the mutt's 90 & 91 teams, the average score over the last 11 years of Price's tenure was 27-21. So yeah....our team's were a hell of a lot more competitive during Price's tenure than they were with Leach.
"If Paul Wulff was at WSU after the repeal of the UW's Medical School monopoly, it's possible he may have chosen medicine as his field of study and then had the ability as head football coach to treat a sick Jeff Tuel before inserting him as QB in a blow out victory vs Idaho State.
If not for UW's Medical School monopoly, WSU is bowl eligible in 2011"
That UW 2000 team wasn't very good.
Got to play Purdue in the Rose Bowl (not Penn State, Bama and Ohio State like Petersen was facing).
Only two games won by more than 14 points that year (Idaho and WSU).
Held one team under 10 points (WSU) and only 3 teams under 20 points.
That UW 2000 team makes the CFP playoffs in another year and gets blown out.
The 2000 WSU team basically quit in the Apple Cup midway in 2nd quarter (yeah, familiar)
Comparing bowl games from different era makes a much sense as comparing career win percentage of UW coaches (Petersen > James > Slickster)
I don't disagree that the 2000 UW team isn't the greatest team to ever play the game, but they beat 11-1 Miami and 11-1 Oregon State that year. For whatever it's worth, that doesn't sound like some crap team that compared to UW who's gone 18-9 in the past two seasons. I agree with you that our team did give up in the 2000 AC but it is important to remember that Jason Gesser missed that game because of injury....so maybe it wasn't our best effort?
Going into OT turns out to be a competitive game. That is like saying we really weren't competitive in any of the Leach Apple Cups because we came back in the 2012 games.
Hmmm....I think Leach showed us why even in a blowout why you do play your starter. How many were we up late in the third against UCLA?
And Leach has shown he would have played a player who was feverish before the game. Hell, when asked about falk as he was carried off on a board, "we are giving him the second half off. So someone with a fever Leach for sure would have played him.
I was responding to your post that only mentioned 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2006 seasons. Nothing in your post pointed to any prior season. I'll stand by what I said...we were competitive in the 2002, 2003, and 2006 Apple Cups.
Glad Cougar
First, Kegel had done a great job the prior two weeks against Oregon (tough loss in OT) and USC (a rare win in the Coliseum). The team had been competitive all season long, often coming up short, but I had every expectation we'd put up a fight. Plus we were at home. Had a Husky fan give me 14 points and figured I had some easy money.
Those were referring back to someone else’s comment about winning “the ones you’re supposed to win.” Those four seemed glaring examples of times we were the better team, and played down to their level. Probably more so than any ACs during Leach’s tenure.
I’m not sure what you guys are arguing here. That Price’s Apple Cup losses were better than Leach’s?
Price’s tenure will be ranked ahead of Leach’s because he won championships. I sat through just about game during both eras, and Price’s best teams were better than Leach’s; sometimes by a wide margin.
With that said, Price took over a much better program than Leach did. In Price’s first 8 years, he won 2 of his 3 Apple Cups. After that, he lost all but the 1997 AC. Price also fielded some of the worst WSU teams in program history. 98-2000 was the darkest football era in my lifetime. Leach has never had a streak like that in his coaching career.
Price’s tenure will be ranked ahead of Leach’s because he won championships. I sat through just about game during both eras, and Price’s best teams were better than Leach’s; sometimes by a wide margin.
With that said, Price took over a much better program than Leach did. In Price’s first 8 years, he won 2 of his 3 Apple Cups. After that, he lost all but the 1997 AC. Price also fielded some of the worst WSU teams in program history. 98-2000 was the darkest football era in my lifetime. Leach has never had a streak like that in his coaching career.
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Darker than the Paul Wulff era? Price won more games over those 3 years than Wulff did total over his 4 years. Nonetheless, it was quite a fall for the program after the 97 Rose Bowl appearance. To his credit, Price re-built the program and set it up for one of the best 3-year records in the country during that time.
Glad Cougar
Knowing the embarrassing showing we had against Air Force, I would easily trade that and 1 of our forgettable conference wins (although the OSU win was fun) last year for an AC win.
Both Price and Leach were mixed bags for sure. Price had great highs and bad lows. Leach never did get to the Rosebowl, but his teams were way more consistent than Price's.
1998 and 1999 were pretty dark, but in 2000 you could tell the team was going to be good. 2008-2010 was a soul crushing experience.
Agree 100% about 2000. That was a team that was trying to overcome the mental weakness developed in 98 and 99 and was so close to being good.
As I recall, there were several OT losses or 1 score losses. Writing was on the wall that the team was about to turn the corner.
