You have consistently made up scenarios that dont apply. You said schools arent a business. Wrong.
And now here you are writing more blather about the football teams money.
Good news on Pac-12 media rights agreement per Kirk Schulz
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You have consistently made up scenarios that dont apply. You said schools arent a business. Wrong.
And now here you are writing more blather about the football teams money.
The size of the student body, the Pac 10 conference, all things that draw kids to WSU. The academics aren’t enough.
Again, this is a business. WSU cannot watch the enrollment plummet and expect to maintain the same funding. We will see the academic requirements drop, the academic scholarship requirements drop, in order to keep the enrollment up. All these administrators and professors will fight to keep their jobs when the cliff comes.
Not every school is gonna make it. And yes that means state schools too. Regardless of what 95 says. Education is a business. Oh, and the school will take the tv money to keep its doors open if it has to. 95 is wrong again.
Loyal was much more succinct in his response. And he was right.
And so am I. Public schools don’t run like businesses. Football gives WSU a nice “front porch,” but it’s not key to their survival. The football money is barely relevant in the total operating budget, and it doesn’t fund the campus…it funds the AD.
I dont see many of LCs post, he is on ignore. I generally could care less what he says.
You are wrong. Again. If the school needs $ and the tv deal has tens of millions, say good bye to some of those funds.
Since you cannot grasp a general concept of schools and insist on WSU…
If WSU has a significant enrollment drop, bad news. There very much is a point when it is all hands on deck to get bodies in the door.
It is a business. The students are customers. If you have a drop in customers and a drop in revenue, not good. If you lose too many customers, your business will close. State funded or not, the state cannot force kids to choose WSU or any state school.
Loyal, what's your opinion of Bill Moos and the job he did as WSU's athletic director?
It seems like he's got his share of critics, but Mr. Moos did hire Mike Leach and made major steps toward enhancing football facilties to a top-tier level.
Because of your professional dealings, you've probably got more insight on WSU administrators than the vast majority of fans
As you said, downgrading our conference affiliation would carry a negative impact, but it's not going to be an On/OFF switch.
If we get relegated to a redhead hybrid football league with the remaining P12 and MWC programs, our TV revenue would take a big hit, but it wouldn't drop to zero. With streaming services now in play, I would venture a guess that a new MWC league will pay out $6-10M/school, and that's assuming that all of the P5 pac-12 programs outside of Oregon State join other leagues and leave us with MWC programs. If Stanford, Cal, SDSU, and some of the Southern 4 programs remain, the number will be higher.
If this happens, WSU will likely receive at least $2M/year in "alimony" compensation from UW if they bolt for the B!G for Big12, and that number could be higher. We'll also receive some scheduling perks that won't be afforded to our new conference members. We'll likely retain our yearly Apple Cup game with UW, and as such, will hopefully negotiate a hefty payout for it. UW alumni do not want that game to disappear, so they'll pay to play it. We'll also likely be able to carve out a similar, albeit not yearly, agreement with Oregon.
As far as the new conference schedule goes, it'll be a downgrade for sure, but it won't be Big Sky. A 6 game home schedule would like this some years.
Idaho/Montana/Big Sky opponent
UW/Oregon/Oregon State
Miscellaneous non conference opponent
Boise State
Fresno State
Air Force
It's not as sexy as our current schedule, but again, it's not Big Sky. Apple Cup would still sell out. Idaho on Labor Day would still draw close to 30K. Homecoming would still draw like homecoming. Parents weekend would still draw. We'll have some stinker home games, but we have that now.
Then, don't forget that we'll be playing for a spot in the CFB playoff as conference champion, so in some years, home games vs. Wyoming or UNLV in November will have a lot riding on them.
Yea, it's not going to be as good, but it's not Big Sky.
I did not address you with this language.
Why would I give your resume more respect than you give mine? You don't know a damn thing.
And if what you propose happens, does happen, I would've never applied to WSU. And I would imagine so would many others. I didn't go to WSU to be in the MWC, part of the draw was the P-12. Conference affiliation will have a major impact on WSU.
Haven't heard any talk at all about WSU joining the Big Sky. Is this something new Cougini?
Articles and sports talk shows seem to say Pac-12 (65%) or Big XII (30%) or Mountain West (5%).
Is the Big Sky moving up to FBS? Those schools aren't on WSU's level in sports or academics. Maybe that's where Gonzaga should go.
I'm not dissing you for that opinion, but let's look at that.
If you or these other students decided not to apply to WSU because of us falling from the P12 to the MWC, what are their options? UW? For starters, they have to get accepted there, which isn't easy. Oregon? That's an option, but it's a full nonresident tuition hit.
That leaves kids with having to choose between WSU in a league with Oregon State, Boise State, Air Force, Fresno State, and probably Cal and Stanford, or they can go to Western, Eastern, or Central WA.
Continuing on this rant about the relegation conference.....
So lets say it all blows up and we're left to join the MWC or form a new merger with them. What if Stanford and Cal, along with Oregon State, decide to partner with us?
From what I've heard, Stanford and Cal aren't keen on joining a Super Conference league 2 or 3 time zones away. If they wanted to play big boy football they would have done it a long time ago. Why sell out now? Stanford will retain all of their classic rivalry games regardless of what league they play in. USC, UCLA, Cal, Notre Dame. Splash in yearly games with WSU, OSU, etc. and they're looking at about the same schedule they have now.
So given that, what if our new fallback league looks like this:
WSU
Oregon State
Cal
Stanford
Boise State
Air Force
Colorado State
UNLV
SDSU
Fresno State
Nevada
Maybe Gonzaga joins for all sports except football? Maybe BYU comes back when their new B12 contract runs out? Maybe some of the 4-corner schools don't get invites to bigger conferences?
Who's to say that when the dust settles from all of this National realignment crap that the West coast programs listed above won't have some recruiting advantages over the UWs, Oregon's, and UCLA's who are trucking their players all over the Nation to play games?
So lets say it all blows up and we're left to join the MWC or form a new merger with them. What if Stanford and Cal, along with Oregon State, decide to partner with us?
From what I've heard, Stanford and Cal aren't keen on joining a Super Conference league 2 or 3 time zones away. If they wanted to play big boy football they would have done it a long time ago. Why sell out now? Stanford will retain all of their classic rivalry games regardless of what league they play in. USC, UCLA, Cal, Notre Dame. Splash in yearly games with WSU, OSU, etc. and they're looking at about the same schedule they have now.
So given that, what if our new fallback league looks like this:
WSU
Oregon State
Cal
Stanford
Boise State
Air Force
Colorado State
UNLV
SDSU
Fresno State
Nevada
Maybe Gonzaga joins for all sports except football? Maybe BYU comes back when their new B12 contract runs out? Maybe some of the 4-corner schools don't get invites to bigger conferences?
Who's to say that when the dust settles from all of this National realignment crap that the West coast programs listed above won't have some recruiting advantages over the UWs, Oregon's, and UCLA's who are trucking their players all over the Nation to play games?
Could Schultz and Chun demand that mandatory $2M in "alimony" from UW be increased 4- or 5-fold annually in order to maintain the Apple Cup rivalry in all sports?
Make UW pay dearly to keep its one in-state rival on the schedule ... since some WSU administrators and fans might tell UW to kick rocks if the two schools choose to join separate conferences
Ummm....Maybe a 1/3 of our students are vested if that. Thye have Tik Tok, instragram. For many that go it is about SHOWING they were at the party, vs in my day being at the party.
If WSU goes down it will have nothing to do with sports. It will have to do with online education and fewer and fewer people in the future getting a college degree or a traditional college degree. The pandemic/endemic and world events have shown us China can turn on and off the spicket for goods they manufacture and we are at their mercy. If we start manufacturing more and more stuff back home with decent paying jobs, people will forgo college. Hell, had a rat chew through my wiring harness of a one year old car. 200 dollars an hour was the shop rate, 4400 dollars later. But learned something about that ordeal. My comprehensive paid for it. So it wont be sports that leads to our down fall.
Not saying it isnt a nice piece of the puzzle, but we will survive.
If schools dont find a way to beat cell phones for entertainment, its all over.
If you can go to school online, why go to Pullman? For the social life….
Lie means 95 said something that can be proven factually incorrect. What you are saying is something that may happen in the future.
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Well I agree with you on this Biggsy. While I admit that I don't have all that many people to fraternize with on my phone, it drives me nuts when I see couples on dates or walking down the street with their snouts in their cell phones. Was power watching Yellowstone this weekend and one scene with Monica and her students outside was great. Every one of them was staring at their phone and she reamed them out - as they kept staring. "What a waste of my f-ing time" she said.
You all have probably seen the Mike Leach clip where he was basically saying the same thing.
Online education overall is BS in my opinion. Part of "Higher Ed" is interacting in person with humans, developing relationships and social skills, and yes having a good time before you enter the meat grinder of adulthood.
I continue to be amazed at how many people don't even watch the news (I do "watch" mine online rather than on TV). They have no f-ing clue what is going on outside of their Facebook page or twitter feed.
Few is an ugly MoFo with bad teeth. Perfect for Spokane....Did the rat look like this?
When people left Detroit en masse, did public schools stay open when the students left?
Yes or no.
I will give you several reasons outside of football. And this applies to when I was on campus, not sure much has changed. Smaller class sizes. More personalized attention . Good academic reputation. And here is the big one...outside of Kohlberger, a pretty safe place to grow up and get away from mom and dad. Those trump football all day long.
Nope...and your point is? One is a job...the second one is education. The first one they had to move because there are no jobs.
UW will be heavily motivated to keep the Apple Cup alive. I'm not worried about that in the least bit. I know quite a few Tyee Club members and decent sized UW boosters (half of the doctors I call on seemingly), and we always shoot the breeze about this. If UW bolts for another conference 2-3 time zones away, maintaining their traditional rivalry with us will be of huge importance to them.
Unless UW starts making outlandish demands, and I don't see them doing that, WSU will NOT tell UW to kick rocks if they leave. Fans will have that initial reaction, but rational thought will win out over time. Playing UW annually in September will accommodate more fans than the current November Thanksgiving arrangement does.
I just don't see them going anywhere. They have plenty of money. Of course so do FUSC and FUCLA. I mean shit - what's 20 or 30 million more to any of those schools?
That said, and while I shudder to write this, an annual Labor Day weekend game in Seahawk stadium, with the stands split 50/50, would be a pretty good option if the mutts do bail on the Pac-12.
And where the F is the announcement about SDSU and (hopefully) UNLV joining the PAC? This is such a goddam no brainer.
There aren't many good things about getting old, but one of the benefits is perspective. You and I have been around the block with WSU for decades now. We've attended games in the 80s when we had canvas equipment bags scattered around the perimeter of Martin Stadium against programs that had twice as many active players on their roster than we did. The deck has always been stacked against us.
If WSU drops to a MWC type conference with an automatic bid to the NCAA playoff at stake for the champion, I'd wager a guess that our attendance numbers won't be any different than they've been for the past 40 years.
Apple Cup in September in Pullman will sell out easily
Homecoming vs. anybody will draw the way it always has
Parents weekend vs. anybody will draw the way it always has
Games vs. Idaho, or Eastern WA, or Montana State early in the season will draw the way they always have
Boise State home games will draw well
Oregon State home games will draw well
What won't draw well are games vs. Wyoming, Nevada, UNLV, Fresno State, Colorado State, etc., but our games vs. Cal, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, etc. don't draw well now unless something is riding on them.
Like you said, WSU will survive. We're the 2nd best public University in the Northwest, we have a strong branch campus and online presence, and a budding new Medical School. If our school fails, it won't be because we're not playing in the P12.
I 100% agree that UW, politically, would keep the Apple Cup at all costs. You have the Governor of the state at every game handing out the trophy. No one, i mean no one, at either university are going to advocate for this game to be removed.
I think UW will leave if given the opportunity because they want to swim in the big pond. Honestly though, outside of the financial windfall it'll bring them, I think they have more to lose than we do stepping down in conference.
If you're an aspiring super conference athlete from California, Arizona, Nevada, etc., why sign with UW to play in a Northern Climate vs. a schedule of teams 2-3 times zones away? If you're that kid, you might as well just go play for Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue, etc. where most of your games and conference rivals are geographically convenient. I think that's going to be the fly in the ointment for UW and Oregon. Having to out recruit and out perform USC, UCLA, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Wisconsin. You look at the map and UW and Oregon are thousands of miles out of place. That's already proven to be the case with professional sports teams here in the NW. It's hard to land free agents because we're so damn far away from everyone they know. The closest Seahawks and Mariners rivals are in the Bay Area, LA, and Phoenix. If you play in Boston, NY, or Chicago, all of your rivals are within an hour. Their airports and flights are easier to deal with. The cities are better.
Apart from the time of year that it's played, I don't see the Apple Cup changing much; certainly not moving to Seahawk Stadium annually. Neither UW or WSU will be down for that. I could potentially be down with a 3-year rotation where the games are played at WSU, at UW, and then at Seahawk Stadium. That could be kind of cool and maybe give each program the opportunity to schedule an additional home game.
Yes, and it's not just politically. UW's alumni will fight hard for the game. They love it as much as we do, and they know that a steady diet of Iowa, Indiana, Minnesota, Rutgers, Maryland, etc. won't be nearly as fun as a facing off against their cross-state rivals.
That was a question I wondered about: Not that they have any real leverage to do so, but would UW try to strong-arm moving the Apple Cup to Seahawks Stadium every season?
Both schools have a lot of fans in that area and the media partners might prefer that arrangement for simplicity's sake.
Colorado and Colorado State played their non-conference rivalry game for years at Mile High Stadium even though Denver was a good bit closer to Boulder (CU) than Ft. Collins (CSU).
So there is something of a precedent for those kinds of hijinks
I don't think so. UW's stadium seats as much or more than Seahawk Stadium, and then there's the event cost associated playing there. WSU would also lobby hard to retain the game in Pullman.
In some ways, it would be a fun annual tradition, and honestly we'd probably perform better against them on opening day than we would at the end of the year when our depth is taxed.
If UW leaves then eff them forever, we should never play them again
I am saying it's a possibility.
It's probably more likely for a WSU, OSU, Colorado State, Wyoming, Utah State, San Jose State, Fresno State, Hawaii, UNLV conference to happen than us going Big Sky, but I think it's greater than a Man-Bear-Pig
Hey I'm not from Yakima where murders happen about as often as the sun comes up. But there are a lot of hot women here - unfortunately most are too young for me.
But Spokane, homeless bums under every overpass and corner. Face it, Spokane is a shithole. Why don't you people clean it up? I was talking yesterday with a gal from Spokane (a honey BTW), and asked her if it was still as bad down below the South Hill as when I lived there 5 years ago. The answer? Yep.
Yes, EVERY overpass and corner. EVERY SINGLE ONE!
Two years ago, Spokane was the #2 real estate market in the country. Must be all the homeless people flocking there for the quality of life.
Two years ago, Spokane was the #2 real estate market in the country. Must be all the homeless people flocking there for the quality of life.
Don't get me wrong. I actually like Spokaloo, geographically anyway. Close to all the lakes, from Roosevelt to CDA and Pend Orielle and Priest. Close to the ski resorts. But it is a dirty town. Just dirty. I mean WTF?
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