Interesting UW/WSU stats:

[CrimsonDisciple]

Rushing Yards: UW 1687 WSU 670
Yards/Carry: UW 4.2. WSU 3.5
Longest Run: UW 38 WSU 30
Rushing TD’s: UW 18 WSU 16

Passing Yds: UW 2,300 WSU 3,500 (Leads Conf)
Longest Reception UW 55 WSU 89 (leads conf)
Passing TD’s UW 15 WSU 28 (leads conf)

Sacks Forced UW 15 WSU 27 (leads conf)
Interceptions UW 6 WSU 7
Fumble recoveries UW 6 WSU 3

Punting UW 37 punts WSU 28 (leads conf)
Punting average UW 42 WSU 47 (leads conf)

UW doesn’t lead the conference in any categories. This is absolutely an amazing year for WSU. Yes we have to play the game, but I just don’t see UW coming out on top this time. It’s our time!

 

[Coug90]

Sacks forced. That’s your big one. They don’t have what they’ve had in recent years. No Shelton, Vita, Kakaha. Gaines is a good player but other than that their front are just guys. Our Oline should dominate them.

Surprised to see their INTs so low. But if you aren’t making QBs uncomfortable...

 

[CougEd]

Rushing Yards: UW 1687 WSU 670
Yards/Carry: UW 4.2. WSU 3.5
Longest Run: UW 38 WSU 30
Rushing TD’s: UW 18 WSU 16

Passing Yds: UW 2,300 WSU 3,500 (Leads Conf)
Longest Reception UW 55 WSU 89 (leads conf)
Passing TD’s UW 15 WSU 28 (leads conf)

Sacks Forced UW 15 WSU 27 (leads conf)
Interceptions UW 6 WSU 7
Fumble recoveries UW 6 WSU 3

Punting UW 37 punts WSU 28 (leads conf)
Punting average UW 42 WSU 47 (leads conf)

UW doesn’t lead the conference in any categories. This is absolutely an amazing year for WSU. Yes we have to play the game, but I just don’t see UW coming out on top this time. It’s our time!

It is why stats are so deceiving. Put up Cal's stats the last two years and tell me how we compare and how they compare to UW. Why is it we have struggled the last two years. Football is about match ups. To date, it has been a bad one for WSU with respect to the UW. We could go into the Apple Cup with one loss and we will still be the underdogs at home.

 

[Coug1990]

It is why stats are so deceiving. Put up Cal's stats the last two years and tell me how we compare and how they compare to UW. Why is it we have struggled the last two years. Football is about match ups. To date, it has been a bad one for WSU with respect to the UW. We could go into the Apple Cup with one loss and we will still be the underdogs at home.

It has been a bad matchup. However, it has been more a talent issue first and mental issue second.

 

[wazzubruce]

While the Ewe is still a decent team. It is a shell of a team that it was the last two years. WSU will compete with this uw team and most likely beat them at home.

 

[Coug90]

While the Ewe is still a decent team. It is a shell of a team that it was the last two years. WSU will compete with this uw team and most likely beat them at home.

Yup wouldn’t shock me to see them be dogs, most of the betting public just sees recent history and oddsmakers just want equal action on both sides. This is not the same UW defense though, I don’t even have to look and I can say with complete confidence all of their teams from the past few years were towards the top of the conference in sacks and picks. Not the case this year and Minshew is a completely different look at QB then they are used to seeing. At worst this will be a game.

 

[CougEd]

It has been a bad matchup. However, it has been more a talent issue first and mental issue second.

To date, they have had the game plan to stop our offense. Same with Cal the last two years.

 

[CougEd]

While the Ewe is still a decent team. It is a shell of a team that it was the last two years. WSU will compete with this uw team and most likely beat them at home.

I hope you are correct, because in 2015 the same thing was being said. No Peters, no Shelton, and unfortunately we saw how that turned out. I think they were 3-5 going into that game.

 

[Coug90]

We also were playing with a backup QB so there’s that...and it was at UW. Not an ideal setting for your first meaningful college reps.

 

[CougEd]

We also were playing with a backup QB so there’s that...and it was at UW. Not an ideal setting for your first meaningful college reps.

I hope you are right. But if it was just inexperienced and not match-up and scheme, why is Cal having so much success against our offense? That is what makes me think the game is a toss up vs "not seeing how the dogs come out on top" .

 

[Coug90]

I hope you are right. But if it was just inexperienced and not match-up and scheme, why is Cal having so much success against our offense? That is what makes me think the game is a toss up vs "not seeing how the dogs come out on top" .

I’m not saying that. It’s the Apple Cup anything can happen. I’m saying the last time things looked favorable for us from a talent standpoint our starting QB could not play and our backup who was not ready for prime time gifted UW like 3 TDs.

Yeah UW has the same system that shut us down, but not the talent in the front that they’ve had in the past. They won’t get home rushing 3. Gardner will wear them out. He can move around and improvise which Luke couldn’t do.

And I would hesitate to say Cal shut us down. We still had 400+ yards of offense and were inches away on a couple of goofy plays and referees numbnuts calls extending Cal drives from blowing that game open. 6.6 yards per play is not getting shut down.

 

[chipdouglas]

This year feels like our best chance in recent history, but I've felt that way before when we lost.

I also think you could go back through the last 5 years of getting shellacked and find compelling stats that ended up informing the outcome not at all.

Until we get our first W in the Leach/Peterson era, I'm going to hold off celebrating until it's a real outcome and not an apparent likelihood.

 

[CougEd]

I’m not saying that. It’s the Apple Cup anything can happen. I’m saying the last time things looked favorable for us from a talent standpoint our starting QB could not play and our backup who was not ready for prime time gifted UW like 3 TDs.

Yeah UW has the same system that shut us down, but not the talent in the front that they’ve had in the past. They won’t get home rushing 3. Gardner will wear them out. He can move around and improvise which Luke couldn’t do.

And I would hesitate to say Cal shut us down. We still had 400+ yards of offense and were inches away on a couple of goofy plays and referees numbnuts calls extending Cal drives from blowing that game open. 6.6 yards per play is not getting shut down.

That is the scheme. If they get yardage great. The offense will always get yardage. they want to sit back and hammer the receivers. That has been the strategy--more yards, less points. We shall see how it plays out.

 

[Coug90]

That is the scheme. If they get yardage great. The offense will always get yardage. they want to sit back and hammer the receivers. That has been the strategy--more yards, less points. We shall see how it plays out.

We’ve also stunk in the red zone the last few years. Not the case this year. For the most part if you are giving up yards to this offense you are giving up points.

I’m with everyone else I sure as hell am not calling a win. But I’m not declaring it a foregone conclusion that Peterson has Leachs number and we are doomed in the AC while those two are on the clock.

 

[Coug1990]

We’ve also stunk in the red zone the last few years. Not the case this year. For the most part if you are giving up yards to this offense you are giving up points.

I’m with everyone else I sure as hell am not calling a win. But I’m not declaring it a foregone conclusion that Peterson has Leachs number and we are doomed in the AC while those two are on the clock.

The uw has also been able to control the game offensively. Grinch's defenses either played well or were horrible. Grinch didn't seem to know how to stem the tide. Waves seemed to turn into tidal waves when things started to go bad. That always happened against the uw.

Claeys seems to be able to make changes to get a stop before the game gets out of hand.

I also believe that this is the most talented offense that Leach has had in his time in Pullman. The receivers are by far the deepest and it isn't close. The offensive line is being coached better than they ever have. Miller was a huge upgrade over McGuire.

 

[mikalalas]

Coug Ed, your comparison, as usual is worse, way different then apples, oranges.

In 1 year Luke Falk had a CONCUSSION, and MAY or MAY not have been still under the minor residual effects of the concussion.

No way was Falk 70,80,90% ready, able to play at even 70,80,90% of his normal, best playing ability.

And his back up was not anywhere near ready, a little less then, equal to, better then, etc, then Falk at even the 70,80% of his normal Falk self was at, at the time.

Then 1 of the years, Falk was injured, replaced by the back up who was again not ready.

And in 2017, Falk had a injured hand, and had regressed.

And in all of the Falk vs UW games, no way Falk is, was even close to how GM is now, in the future and GM vs UW.

IF IF IF GM doesn't get injured, have to play hurt, etc, GM will probably beat UW.

Its just NOT BLOODY DAMN LIKELY GM loses to UW at home.

So ED your comparing the UW, Falk game, era, to GM, and using that, and the flawed Logic to say "See since UW beat Falk, WSU, Leach, Air Raid, etc, consistently, over and over, its likely that UW will probably beat WSU at home", is silly, illogical.

Now if Falk had not been injured, and if Falk had not regressed in 2017, and if Falk had been just as good as Minshew, when he Falk, played, lost to UW, and if Bender the back up QB had been as good as Minshew in losing to UW, THEN AND ONLY THEN WOULD THE COMPARISON HAVE BEEN ACCURATE AND ONLY THEN COULD YOU HAVE reasonably, logically said "see since UW beat Falk, and since Falk, equal to, better then Minshew, and since Bender the back up better then Minshew, then Minshew will probably also get beat by UW."

But since that, those things didn't happen, and since Falk, Bender were not, are not better then Minshew, then your comparison is not apples to apples, oranges to oranges, and is even worse then comparing apples to oranges.

As Spock would say:

ED your being illogical

 

[Coug90]

Coug Ed, your comparison, as usual is worse, way different then apples, oranges.

In 1 year Luke Falk had a CONCUSSION, and MAY or MAY not have been still under the minor residual effects of the concussion.

No way was Falk 70,80,90% ready, able to play at even 70,80,90% of his normal, best playing ability.

And his back up was not anywhere near ready, a little less then, equal to, better then, etc, then Falk at even the 70,80% of his normal Falk self was at, at the time.

Then 1 of the years, Falk was injured, replaced by the back up who was again not ready.

And in 2017, Falk had a injured hand, and had regressed.

And in all of the Falk vs UW games, no way Falk is, was even close to how GM is now, in the future and GM vs UW.

IF IF IF GM doesn't get injured, have to play hurt, etc, GM will probably beat UW.

Its just NOT BLOODY DAMN LIKELY GM loses to UW at home.

So ED your comparing the UW, Falk game, era, to GM, and using that, and the flawed Logic to say "See since UW beat Falk, WSU, Leach, Air Raid, etc, consistently, over and over, its likely that UW will probably beat WSU at home", is silly, illogical.

Now if Falk had not been injured, and if Falk had not regressed in 2017, and if Falk had been just as good as Minshew, when he Falk, played, lost to UW, and if Bender the back up QB had been as good as Minshew in losing to UW, THEN AND ONLY THEN WOULD THE COMPARISON HAVE BEEN ACCURATE AND ONLY THEN COULD YOU HAVE reasonably, logically said "see since UW beat Falk, and since Falk, equal to, better then Minshew, and since Bender the back up better then Minshew, then Minshew will probably also get beat by UW."

But since that, those things didn't happen, and since Falk, Bender were not, are not better then Minshew, then your comparison is not apples to apples, oranges to oranges, and is even worse then comparing apples to oranges.

As Spock would say:

ED your being illogical

The only thing that would have made this post better:

Dick Kim

 

[fingerdisco]

The uw has also been able to control the game offensively. Grinch's defenses either played well or were horrible. Grinch didn't seem to know how to stem the tide. Waves seemed to turn into tidal waves when things started to go bad. That always happened against the uw.

Claeys seems to be able to make changes to get a stop before the game gets out of hand.

I also believe that this is the most talented offense that Leach has had in his time in Pullman. The receivers are by far the deepest and it isn't close. The offensive line is being coached better than they ever have. Miller was a huge upgrade over McGuire.

Collectively as a group, I’d say we have better receivers, but who on this current roster would you take over Marks and Cracraft?

 

[acgcoug]

Collectively as a group, I’d say we have better receivers, but who on this current roster would you take over Marks and Cracraft?

Loved them both, and I would rank them over any of our current WR's. However, our current group is sharing playing time far more than Marks and Cracraft did, which disperses their stats. Patmon is the WR that really should be getting more targets. His target to reception rate is 80%+ if I recall, which is outstanding, plus he leads the team in ypc. I believe Marks and Cracraft were in the 65-70% range. The thing is Winston has been very good at that same WR spot, where he is nearly equal to Patmon in ypc, receptions, and total yds, but he has excelled more in the red zone (7 TDs vs Patmon's 3).

Good problems to have...

I would like to add this to my post:

Marks and Johnson-Mack combined for 124 receptions for 1,140 14 TDs in 2016 (Marks 89 894, 13 Tds). We were thin that year on WR depth, and D's could focus on Marks.

In 2015, Marks really didn't have a back-up, he had 104 1,192 15 TDs. Although, I do believe him having Dom Williams ( 75 1040, 11 Tds) on the opposite side of the field helped Marks be less of an emphasis by opposing D's, like we saw his SR year.

Already, Patmon and Winston combined have 86 receptions for 1,176 10 TDs all while nearly averaging an outstanding 14 ypc. Marks averaged about 11 ypc between 2015-2016.

 

[Coug90]

Collectively as a group, I’d say we have better receivers, but who on this current roster would you take over Marks and Cracraft?

Marks and Cracraft were both awesome but I’m not sure I’d take them necessarily over guys on the current roster. I think there’s inside guys that run just as good of routes and have as good hands as Cracraft...falk just threw it to Cracraft damn near every time on third down, where Minshew spreads it out more. Same with Marks on the outside. Great competitor but limited physically. Patmon has a completely different skill set and is an nfl body with tremendous hands. He’s like a college version of what Brandon Marshall was early in his career. Easop reminds me a lot of Marks. Not the fastest, but savvy, great routes and catches everything.

 

[mikalalas]

Easop may not be the fastest, but he has deceptive speed and is way faster then people think he is.

On the 89 yard TD, Easop, once he was past, beat, juked the last defender between him, and a TD, none of the defense was able to catch up, catch him from behind. That means on that play, Easop was faster then the other teams defense. To do that, you have to be pretty darn fast.

And its not just Easop's deceptively fast speed. Its that combined with good route running, the ability to Juke the defender, make the defender miss, the explosiveness to explode straight ahead, going north, south, instead of east west when cant make defenders miss, the ability to almost always catch anything remotely close, the ability to get feet down in bounds, the ability to know where the ball is, or where it will, should be, the ability to be on same page with QB, the ability to get open, the ability to create space, find the soft spot in zone, the ability to break of route come back towards QB to be a emergency safety valve if QB cant find anybody open, the ability to post a defender up like in basketball, the ability to almost always come up with 50/50 balls, being about 6 foot 3 to 6 foot 6 200+ pounds, big hands proto Pro NFL athlete, WR.

The only reason Easop isnt considered better then Craycraft, Dom, etc, is because of the depth at WR, and because GM, Air Raid, Leach, Etc, SPREAD THE BALL AROUND, instead of only just to Easop.

The only Falk era WR equal to, better then Easop: Gabe Marks.

I'll take Easop, Patmon, Tay Martin, and the rest of WR corp in Jamire Calvin, Bell, Calvin Jackson,etc, etc, as long as GM and not Falk, over Marks, Dom, Craycraft, ANYDAY.

 

[fingerdisco]

Marks and Cracraft were both awesome but I’m not sure I’d take them necessarily over guys on the current roster. I think there’s inside guys that run just as good of routes and have as good hands as Cracraft...falk just threw it to Cracraft damn near every time on third down, where Minshew spreads it out more. Same with Marks on the outside. Great competitor but limited physically. Patmon has a completely different skill set and is an nfl body with tremendous hands. He’s like a college version of what Brandon Marshall was early in his career. Easop reminds me a lot of Marks. Not the fastest, but savvy, great routes and catches everything.

If Patmon continues to improve, I think he'll be head and shoulder above Marks. That said, I haven't seen a guy on this roster that can make the circus catches Marks did on a routine basis--he was incredible in his ability to not only catch the difficult ball thrown to where only he could get to it, but also get a toe inbounds. Cracraft was just Mr. Reliable, and fearless in the middle--I've seen some drops from the current guys that I attribute to hearing the footsteps bearing down on them that River was able to ignore and put his body on the line to make the catch.

 

[HHusky]

This year feels like our best chance in recent history, but I've felt that way before when we lost.

I also think you could go back through the last 5 years of getting shellacked and find compelling stats that ended up informing the outcome not at all.

Until we get our first W in the Leach/Peterson era, I'm going to hold off celebrating until it's a real outcome and not an apparent likelihood.

I can only add that this is the first time in years I’ve felt the Cougars could win. Minshew doesn’t have the deep seeded psychological scars others have carried. I don’t think he’ll freak out if adversity strikes.