Jonathan Smith is not OSU’s Paul Wulff..

[Cougarmatt90]

I watched J. Smith’s Wazzu game week press conference and was very impressed. I never really paid much attention to the guy after he graduated from OSU. I know he was at Idaho for a few years and most recently UW’s offensive coordinator. He came across as very articulate and intelligent. He wasn’t afraid to address some really crappy truths about the program he inherited.
He’s in a very similar situation as CML was seven years ago. Given his success at Washington and his FB knowledge/experience, I think he’s going to build OSU back into a very good program. Their fans should be optimistic about their team’s future. I think they’re in good hands. (Sorry to bag on Wulff but man, thank God those days are over).

 

[Cougatron]

He actually has Division I experience where as Wulff never had that.

He has 6+ years as an assistant at Boise/UW and a bunch at Idaho and was a coordinator at the Pac 12 level.

Wulff had none of that. Hell Wulff wasn’t even a GA for a FBS school. His entire college coaching experience was at 1 school. Eastern. We hired a career FCS coach to be the head man for a Pac 12 program.

If he wasn’t a Coug/Walden’s special pet he would have been laughed at to be hired. Can you imagine if we had hired Idaho State’s head coach to run WSU? It would have been seen as ridiculous, a joke, and yet somehow Wulff was to be taken seriously...

Beau Baldwin has a much smarter plan as a guy coming from FCS. He got a Pac 12 OC job first and is learning coaching at that level before trying to be a HC of a power conference team.

I don’t know how much success Smith will have at Oregon but he’s learned from good people like Petersen and Mike Riley is on the staff so he has as good a shot as anyone to rebuild that place.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I watched J. Smith’s Wazzu game week press conference and was very impressed. I never really paid much attention to the guy after he graduated from OSU. I know he was at Idaho for a few years and most recently UW’s offensive coordinator. He came across as very articulate and intelligent. He wasn’t afraid to address some really crappy truths about the program he inherited.
He’s in a very similar situation as CML was seven years ago. Given his success at Washington and his FB knowledge/experience, I think he’s going to build OSU back into a very good program. Their fans should be optimistic about their team’s future. I think they’re in good hands. (Sorry to bag on Wulff but man, thank God those days are over).

The most damning thing about Wulff, in 2008 & 2009 in particular, was the fact that he bailed on his players and showed them no respect at all. They repaid him by giving no effort and playing terribly. Although I still believe that Wulff had a better understanding of X's and O's than people give him credit for, he was an incredibly selfish guy who was worried more about his image than his players and they knew it. He dug a hole that he was not good enough to get out of because he was a d!ck.

It's way too early to know if Smith will be able to win at OSU. A few years ago, KU fans were saying the same things about David Beaty that you are saying about Smith, yet the Jayhawks are 5-36 under Beaty and will most likely be 5-44 in another couple months. In his fourth season, they are probably around #100 instead of #130 but still losing conference games by an average of 20 points. Not much of an accomplishment.

It's Smith's first year so the results don't mean a lot, as long as he can keep from completely losing the team the way that Wulff did. Even if Wulff was able to get WSU to 6-6 and sneak into a bowl game, it was obvious early on that our situation would always be fragile with Wulff because he's the kind of coach that kids quit on. His 3-8 season in 2006 being a great example of that. Can't say I'm rooting for Smith, because it's always nice to have a conference game that isn't scary as hell.

 

[dgibbons]

I watched J. Smith’s Wazzu game week press conference and was very impressed. I never really paid much attention to the guy after he graduated from OSU. I know he was at Idaho for a few years and most recently UW’s offensive coordinator. He came across as very articulate and intelligent. He wasn’t afraid to address some really crappy truths about the program he inherited.
He’s in a very similar situation as CML was seven years ago. Given his success at Washington and his FB knowledge/experience, I think he’s going to build OSU back into a very good program. Their fans should be optimistic about their team’s future. I think they’re in good hands. (Sorry to bag on Wulff but man, thank God those days are over).

We know who to blame- Doba.

 

[moxeecoug]

Smith inherited very little talent so he needs another 2-3 years to rebuild the program and then he can be judged. The thing I like is both he and the coaching staff are young and they can grow with the program and start doing good things. This a year they just have to get through and done with and then see what happens with recruiting. They start bringing in Pac12 caliber players then I think they will be fine. OSU just has to be patient.

 

[Cougsocal]

Too win at OSU, like WSU, you have to be more than a "good coach" (Anderson) You have to have systems, or develop systems, able to win with less, at least for several years until upgraded recruiting arrives. The Air Raid is just that type of system offensively. Does Smith have such systems? Aren't they a run first team? If USC, with all its recruiting/talent, has been trying unsuccessfully for 30 years to get back to being a power football/run first team, what are OSU's chances? Run first offenses need better talent than thoses they play, and since the advent of speed defenses, even then they frequently have problems from week to week (its hard to run when you are outnumbered in the box with speed kids, no matter how many NFL type kids you have trying to swat flies). If OSU is now running the offense that Smith intends to run, long term, a future pink slip is inevitable.

 

[CougPatrol]

We know who to blame- Doba.

No, but Doba's staff deserves a lot of blame too.

 

[froropmkr72]

Too win at OSU, like WSU, you have to be more than a "good coach" (Anderson) You have to have systems, or develop systems, able to win with less, at least for several years until upgraded recruiting arrives. The Air Raid is just that type of system offensively. Does Smith have such systems? Aren't they a run first team? If USC, with all its recruiting/talent, has been trying unsuccessfully for 30 years to get back to being a power football/run first team, what are OSU's chances? Run first offenses need better talent than thoses they play, and since the advent of speed defenses, even then they frequently have problems from week to week (its hard to run when you are outnumbered in the box with speed kids, no matter how many NFL type kids you have trying to swat flies). If OSU is now running the offense that Smith intends to run, long term, a future pink slip is inevitable.

Their offense isn't doing too bad and the execution will only get better. Their defense is 128th in the country and if anyone gets a pink slip....early.....it might be their d-coordinator Any top JC can come in and play right away on that defense next year. It's tough to play without your recruited players in place. The offensive play calling is being tailored to what they have on the field right now.

 

[CougEd]

Too win at OSU, like WSU, you have to be more than a "good coach" (Anderson) You have to have systems, or develop systems, able to win with less, at least for several years until upgraded recruiting arrives. The Air Raid is just that type of system offensively. Does Smith have such systems? Aren't they a run first team? If USC, with all its recruiting/talent, has been trying unsuccessfully for 30 years to get back to being a power football/run first team, what are OSU's chances? Run first offenses need better talent than thoses they play, and since the advent of speed defenses, even then they frequently have problems from week to week (its hard to run when you are outnumbered in the box with speed kids, no matter how many NFL type kids you have trying to swat flies). If OSU is now running the offense that Smith intends to run, long term, a future pink slip is inevitable.

Does USC really "commit" to the run? They gashed WSU in the first quarter and they let WSU dictate what they were going to do. Same with Utah. Utah has no identity on offense. None. If we played two hand touch in the first quarter we wouldn't have stopped them...then they went away from it. Leach goes with what he does best. We had zero yards against Utah on the ground. He stayed with what they do best and his philosophy.

 

[CougEd]

The most damning thing about Wulff, in 2008 & 2009 in particular, was the fact that he bailed on his players and showed them no respect at all. They repaid him by giving no effort and playing terribly. Although I still believe that Wulff had a better understanding of X's and O's than people give him credit for, he was an incredibly selfish guy who was worried more about his image than his players and they knew it. He dug a hole that he was not good enough to get out of because he was a d!ck.

It's way too early to know if Smith will be able to win at OSU. A few years ago, KU fans were saying the same things about David Beaty that you are saying about Smith, yet the Jayhawks are 5-36 under Beaty and will most likely be 5-44 in another couple months. In his fourth season, they are probably around #100 instead of #130 but still losing conference games by an average of 20 points. Not much of an accomplishment.

It's Smith's first year so the results don't mean a lot, as long as he can keep from completely losing the team the way that Wulff did. Even if Wulff was able to get WSU to 6-6 and sneak into a bowl game, it was obvious early on that our situation would always be fragile with Wulff because he's the kind of coach that kids quit on. His 3-8 season in 2006 being a great example of that. Can't say I'm rooting for Smith, because it's always nice to have a conference game that isn't scary as hell.

Just out of curiosity, what does it mean "The most damning thing about Wulff, in 2008 & 2009 in particular, was the fact that he bailed on his players and showed them no respect at all. "

 

[Coug90]

Does USC really "commit" to the run? They gashed WSU in the first quarter and they let WSU dictate what they were going to do. Same with Utah. Utah has no identity on offense. None. If we played two hand touch in the first quarter we wouldn't have stopped them...then they went away from it. Leach goes with what he does best. We had zero yards against Utah on the ground. He stayed with what they do best and his philosophy.

Not sure they let us dictate what they were going to do. Their strategy was chuck and pray and unfortunately it worked. Helton is a shitty coach but I’ll give Tee Martin some credit for doing the only thing they could do to have a chance at winning that game.

 

[Fab5Coug]

I watched J. Smith’s Wazzu game week press conference and was very impressed. I never really paid much attention to the guy after he graduated from OSU. I know he was at Idaho for a few years and most recently UW’s offensive coordinator. He came across as very articulate and intelligent. He wasn’t afraid to address some really crappy truths about the program he inherited.
He’s in a very similar situation as CML was seven years ago. Given his success at Washington and his FB knowledge/experience, I think he’s going to build OSU back into a very good program. Their fans should be optimistic about their team’s future. I think they’re in good hands. (Sorry to bag on Wulff but man, thank God those days are over).

Sorry to bag on Wulff? Are you kidding? You've given us like 4 days of material.

I'm sure Ed is constructing a post right now about how legendary Wulff's '08 class would have been if not for injuries to Leandre Daniels and Corey Mackay.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Just out of curiosity, what does it mean "The most damning thing about Wulff, in 2008 & 2009 in particular, was the fact that he bailed on his players and showed them no respect at all. "

Probably means he continually talked about how small, slow and weak they were.

That's the difference between him and Leach. Leach questioned the teams effort. If you question a kids effort, they can change it to prove you wrong. If you question a kids size or speed, what are they supposed to do about it? They were conditioned to believe there was no way they could win at this level right from the get go. He gave them excuses for losing

 

[wazzubruce]

I remember back when OSU fans were griping about Riley and then he left. I thought at the time, they should realize how good they have it at OSU. They were decent and winning a lot of games with Riley as HC. They weren't winning at the rate of Oregon and so they wanted the change to TRY to reach the heights that the ducks were hitting and it was a huge mistake. OSU will never be Oregon and Riley leaving was a major disaster, like I knew it would be. I kept telling my Beav friends, be careful what you wish for and look, now they've replaced WSU at the bottom of the Pac-12 food chain. I wish the Beavs success, when they are not playing us.... but some team has to have less success for the Cougs to be at or near the top. Having a top coach like CML matters. His name alone can bring in top kids for offense, that would normally never give WSU a 2nd look.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Probably means he continually talked about how small, slow and weak they were.

That's the difference between him and Leach. Leach questioned the teams effort. If you question a kids effort, they can change it to prove you wrong. If you question a kids size or speed, what are they supposed to do about it? They were conditioned to believe there was no way they could win at this level right from the get go. He gave them excuses for losing

Fab nails it for the most part but it was even more damaging than that. It wasn't just that he gave them excuses for losing, he told them that he didn't believe that they could win and essentially, he couldn't wait until they were gone so that he could win with "his guys". There is no more effective way to get minimal effort out of someone than to say that you can't wait for their replacement. He took a 2008 squad that might have flirted with 5 wins with good coaching and turned them into the worst team in WSU history. It was never going to be a "good team" but whenever Yaki or Tron says that he's the worst coach in the history of football, his exhibits A and B are pretty frickin' damning. He did bring in guys that he could work with over time and was making the team better, but given the terrible lows to start with, it's hard to think that he could have ever been really successful at WSU.

Getting back to Jonathon Smith, he's got a huge task in front of him. WSU has one of the best offenses in the country and OSU has one of the worst defenses in the country. I think that we wreck them this weekend something along the lines of 56-17. They then get Cal, CU, USC and Stanford....all of which are going to feel like they have something to prove. I won't be surprised to see them giving up half a hundred every game (except Stanford just because). The Beavers are giving up over 45 points per game right now and they are just getting started in conference play. It's going to be tough for him to keep this team pointed in the right direction this year.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Fab nails it for the most part but it was even more damaging than that. It wasn't just that he gave them excuses for losing, he told them that he didn't believe that they could win and essentially, he couldn't wait until they were gone so that he could win with "his guys". There is no more effective way to get minimal effort out of someone than to say that you can't wait for their replacement. He took a 2008 squad that might have flirted with 5 wins with good coaching and turned them into the worst team in WSU history. It was never going to be a "good team" but whenever Yaki or Tron says that he's the worst coach in the history of football, his exhibits A and B are pretty frickin' damning. He did bring in guys that he could work with over time and was making the team better, but given the terrible lows to start with, it's hard to think that he could have ever been really successful at WSU.

Getting back to Jonathon Smith, he's got a huge task in front of him. WSU has one of the best offenses in the country and OSU has one of the worst defenses in the country. I think that we wreck them this weekend something along the lines of 56-17. They then get Cal, CU, USC and Stanford....all of which are going to feel like they have something to prove. I won't be surprised to see them giving up half a hundred every game (except Stanford just because). The Beavers are giving up over 45 points per game right now and they are just getting started in conference play. It's going to be tough for him to keep this team pointed in the right direction this year.

ASU was scoring something like 19 a game and hung 52 on OSU.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Just out of curiosity, what does it mean "The most damning thing about Wulff, in 2008 & 2009 in particular, was the fact that he bailed on his players and showed them no respect at all. "

C'mon Ed - you are just trying to start a 4 page Wullf hate thread.

All I care to remember about those early days - and I put this equally on Sterk and will try to find the article(s) - was how he came out and publicly said how few D-1 offers the existing Cougar players had had. I think they had a stat sheet and everything. "we suck because we have crappy players".

And I seem to recall Wulff basically doing a youth movement early on, but I can't document that right now.

 

[M-I-Coug]

I watched J. Smith’s Wazzu game week press conference and was very impressed. I never really paid much attention to the guy after he graduated from OSU. I know he was at Idaho for a few years and most recently UW’s offensive coordinator. He came across as very articulate and intelligent. He wasn’t afraid to address some really crappy truths about the program he inherited.
He’s in a very similar situation as CML was seven years ago. Given his success at Washington and his FB knowledge/experience, I think he’s going to build OSU back into a very good program. Their fans should be optimistic about their team’s future. I think they’re in good hands. (Sorry to bag on Wulff but man, thank God those days are over).

I completely disagree. I also watched Jonathan's press conference. I did not see positive leadership skills as a head coach. I also saw complacency. His cupboard is bare, and he needs to push the talent what he has to extraordinary results. I frankly don't think he's got the right skill to motivate 2 star players to compete with the rest of the pack 12. If you watch his presser, he's just happy to hang with anybody, and say we're competitive.

Oregon State needs two things, from my perspective.

1. An extraordinary person, (coach) who can motivate anyone, regardless of talent. To get the players to believe they can. To believe they can win, and then win. This is hard to do, but you need a genius as a motivator to run this program.

2. Dump the logo and everything related to Beaver football as we know it. Their current logo reeks failure. They need a total overhaul, not just in coaches, players and talent, but a whole new identity.

Start with rolling out a new logo that effects all branding. Branding to high school is important, and their program needs a major branding and logo, (image) overhaul. Keep it the same, and you look like a loser. It's that simple.

 

[dgibbons]

Probably means he continually talked about how small, slow and weak they were.

That's the difference between him and Leach. Leach questioned the teams effort. If you question a kids effort, they can change it to prove you wrong. If you question a kids size or speed, what are they supposed to do about it? They were conditioned to believe there was no way they could win at this level right from the get go. He gave them excuses for losing

Despite that top notch strength and conditioning program Wulff implemented, with only two guys getting tagged for PEDs....

 

[CougEd]

C'mon Ed - you are just trying to start a 4 page Wullf hate thread.

All I care to remember about those early days - and I put this equally on Sterk and will try to find the article(s) - was how he came out and publicly said how few D-1 offers the existing Cougar players had had. I think they had a stat sheet and everything. "we suck because we have crappy players".

And I seem to recall Wulff basically doing a youth movement early on, but I can't document that right now.

Pretty funny and rich. I asked a legit question. We win a big game with some of our tougher games coming up and that game guaranteed a winning season, and yet wulff comes up.

Transition is very tough. For many, the faster you get a group of kids out of the program the better. Leach ran off a host of kids. He didn't say publicly the cupboard was bare, that the oline was small and no one was over 260. Despite the fact Spitz, Forbes and Rodgers were all 290.

Trust me Chip is getting rid of the malcontents. I have no problem with what Wulff or Leach did. The faster they get rid of kids who said they never worked out harder in their lives and the kid puts on 5 pounds in 5 years to a 6'5" frame the sooner a true rebuild stays. That includes M Wilson and Jake Rodgers.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Pretty funny and rich. I asked a legit question. We win a big game with some of our tougher games coming up and that game guaranteed a winning season, and yet wulff comes up.

Transition is very tough. For many, the faster you get a group of kids out of the program the better. Leach ran off a host of kids. He didn't say publicly the cupboard was bare, that the oline was small and no one was over 260. Despite the fact Spitz, Forbes and Rodgers were all 290.

Trust me Chip is getting rid of the malcontents. I have no problem with what Wulff or Leach did. The faster they get rid of kids who said they never worked out harder in their lives and the kid puts on 5 pounds in 5 years to a 6'5" frame the sooner a true rebuild stays. That includes M Wilson and Jake Rodgers.

Ahhhhh.....come on Ed. Go find some old press conferences from 2008. Wulff roasted the kids and said they were worthless. Leach is an example that every coach will have some guys that don't handle transition well, and frankly, we are seeing that at Nebraska right now. You make the comment that "the faster that you get a group of kids out of the program, the better". There's truth in that. The problem for Wulff is that he needed to get WSU to a bowl game in year four. When he was hired, it was said that Wulff had a "five year plan" to have WSU competing for conference championships in year five. In year four, we finished 4-8 and tied for 10th in the conference with Arizona. He had buried the program so badly with his "truths" that recovery was bordering on impossible. Contrast that with Leach who weeded out some of the guys that weren't ready to win and had us in a bowl game in year two and playing for the Pac-12 North championship in the Apple Cup in year five.

I know you love to support Wulff and I think he catches more grief than he deserves at times, but he FUBAR'd the transition in 2008. That's just cold, hard reality.

EDIT: FWIW, feel free to notice that I'm not convinced that Jonathan Smith won't end up in a worse spot than Wulff was. Our team gave up in 2008, but at least we had UW to save some face that season. The Beavers don't appear to have that going for them.

 

[CougEd]

Ahhhhh.....come on Ed. Go find some old press conferences from 2008. Wulff roasted the kids and said they were worthless. Leach is an example that every coach will have some guys that don't handle transition well, and frankly, we are seeing that at Nebraska right now. You make the comment that "the faster that you get a group of kids out of the program, the better". There's truth in that. The problem for Wulff is that he needed to get WSU to a bowl game in year four. When he was hired, it was said that Wulff had a "five year plan" to have WSU competing for conference championships in year five. In year four, we finished 4-8 and tied for 10th in the conference with Arizona. He had buried the program so badly with his "truths" that recovery was bordering on impossible. Contrast that with Leach who weeded out some of the guys that weren't ready to win and had us in a bowl game in year two and playing for the Pac-12 North championship in the Apple Cup in year five.

I know you love to support Wulff and I think he catches more grief than he deserves at times, but he FUBAR'd the transition in 2008. That's just cold, hard reality.

EDIT: FWIW, feel free to notice that I'm not convinced that Jonathan Smith won't end up in a worse spot than Wulff was. Our team gave up in 2008, but at least we had UW to save some face that season. The Beavers don't appear to have that going for them.

What does year four have to do with what happened in 2008 and 2009. Are you saying if he got to 6-6 year four his comments in 2008 weee appropriate . That could have been sumlin at WSU and I would make the same comment. I am not defending a coach but rather what coaches do .

And if I went back in Leach’s first year I would see similar comments .

 

[Flatlandcoug]

What does year four have to do with what happened in 2008 and 2009. Are you saying if he got to 6-6 year four his comments in 2008 weee appropriate . That could have been sumlin at WSU and I would make the same comment. I am not defending a coach but rather what coaches do .

And if I went back in Leach’s first year I would see similar comments .

I'm saying that the hole he dug in 2008 and 2009 where he lost the ENTIRE team meant that he didn't have any good players in 2010 that were upperclassmen that really believed in him. The guys recruited in 2006 and 2007 who should have been the core of that team were told that they were crap that needed to be weeded out. They played like they were just biding their time and getting their degrees. By 2011, Wulff did have enough of his own guys where our team had a heartbeat again, but the clock had run out on his rebuilding plan.....because all BS aside....WSU wasn't going to compete for a conference title in 2012 with Wulff at the helm. We might have competed for a bowl game, but we were still years away from being relevant.

Leach said a lot of negative crap about his players in 2012, but if you listen to the message, it was more along the lines of "these guys are playing like zombies, they don't care, they lack enthusiasm, etc...." Leach rarely publicly questioned anybody's talent, but he was relentless in questioning their effort.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Ahhhhh.....come on Ed. Go find some old press conferences from 2008. Wulff roasted the kids and said they were worthless. Leach is an example that every coach will have some guys that don't handle transition well, and frankly, we are seeing that at Nebraska right now. You make the comment that "the faster that you get a group of kids out of the program, the better". There's truth in that. The problem for Wulff is that he needed to get WSU to a bowl game in year four. When he was hired, it was said that Wulff had a "five year plan" to have WSU competing for conference championships in year five. In year four, we finished 4-8 and tied for 10th in the conference with Arizona. He had buried the program so badly with his "truths" that recovery was bordering on impossible. Contrast that with Leach who weeded out some of the guys that weren't ready to win and had us in a bowl game in year two and playing for the Pac-12 North championship in the Apple Cup in year five.

I know you love to support Wulff and I think he catches more grief than he deserves at times, but he FUBAR'd the transition in 2008. That's just cold, hard reality.

EDIT: FWIW, feel free to notice that I'm not convinced that Jonathan Smith won't end up in a worse spot than Wulff was. Our team gave up in 2008, but at least we had UW to save some face that season. The Beavers don't appear to have that going for them.

The tough part with total, tear down rebuilds like Wulff tried to do is you can only sell "rebuild" to recruits for about 2 years. After that, to recruits, you are what your record says you are. So, you'd better absolutely nail those first couple classes, otherwise you're dead in the water.

Look at Wulff's classes. We had to essentially punt the '08 class cause Doba's staff left almost nothing to work with and Wulff didn't have the connections to quickly bring in a Gabe Marks, a Destiny Vaeao, a Robert Barber, a Jeremiah Allison or a Kache Palacio.

In '09, WSU WAS actually winning some recruiting battles. Simone, Nolan Washington, Markle, Anthony Carpenter, Atofau, Travis Long, Winston & Rankin were all guys other P5 programs wanted. Unfortunately, that class also only enrolled something like 19 guys.

The '10 class was unquestionably Wulff's best, and the closest thing he had to an actual Pac12 caliber class. Deone, Marquess, Xavier Cooper & Halliday were stand out Pac12 players. Galvin, Fullington, Wade Jacobson, Damante Horton, Kristoff & Toni Pole were also serviceable to good Pac12 players. Jake Rodgers & Davante Booker were NFL draft picks, although starred for other programs. Had Wulff landed a class like that 3 years in a row, he'd probably still be coaching here.

The problem is, the Cougs were so dreadfully bad in '08, '09 & '10, there was no way to follow up that '10 class with anything. Wulff's '11 & '12 class were atrocious, and understandably so. Who would want to commit to WSU and play for Wulff at that point? Seriously, go look at that '11 class. Who would you re-recruit again if given the chance. Paulo? Isaiah Myers? Darryl Monroe? And the '12 class was looking to be even worse, had Leach not ripped it apart.

So, that '10 class was maybe good enough to keep things afloat and around 4 wins for a couple years, then what? Another rebuild was coming with those '11, '12 & beyond classes.

 

[Glad Cougar]

I remember back when OSU fans were griping about Riley and then he left. I thought at the time, they should realize how good they have it at OSU. They were decent and winning a lot of games with Riley as HC. They weren't winning at the rate of Oregon and so they wanted the change to TRY to reach the heights that the ducks were hitting and it was a huge mistake. OSU will never be Oregon and Riley leaving was a major disaster, like I knew it would be. I kept telling my Beav friends, be careful what you wish for and look, now they've replaced WSU at the bottom of the Pac-12 food chain. I wish the Beavs success, when they are not playing us.... but some team has to have less success for the Cougs to be at or near the top. Having a top coach like CML matters. His name alone can bring in top kids for offense, that would normally never give WSU a 2nd look.

It appears Riley leaving OSU for Nebraska was a disaster for both programs. Scott Frost inherited a program far worse than he thought because of the 3-year tenure of Riley.

Glad Cougar

 

[Flatlandcoug]

It appears Riley leaving OSU for Nebraska was a disaster for both programs. Scott Frost inherited a program far worse than he thought because of the 3-year tenure of Riley.

Glad Cougar

Mike Riley to Nebraska was one of the worst coaching hires all time. Still can't believe that they hired him.

 

[Cougarmatt90]

Too win at OSU, like WSU, you have to be more than a "good coach" (Anderson) You have to have systems, or develop systems, able to win with less, at least for several years until upgraded recruiting arrives. The Air Raid is just that type of system offensively. Does Smith have such systems? Aren't they a run first team? If USC, with all its recruiting/talent, has been trying unsuccessfully for 30 years to get back to being a power football/run first team, what are OSU's chances? Run first offenses need better talent than thoses they play, and since the advent of speed defenses, even then they frequently have problems from week to week (its hard to run when you are outnumbered in the box with speed kids, no matter how many NFL type kids you have trying to swat flies). If OSU is now running the offense that Smith intends to run, long term, a future pink slip is inevitable.

Sorry to bag on Wulff? Are you kidding? You've given us like 4 days of material.

I'm sure Ed is constructing a post right now about how legendary Wulff's '08 class would have been if not for injuries to Leandre Daniels and Corey Mackay.

hey man, I’m new to this board so not aware of its nuances, posters or their opinions. I just made an observation about Coach Smith. Personally I think he’s going to succeed at Oregon State. He did it as an undersized, lightly recruited QB. In fact, he helped bring that program to unprecedented heights. I believe as head coach he knows what it’s going to take for them to be successful again. He definitely knows the PAC-12, he knows the program he inherited and he knows what kind of players he needs to get it rolling. It’s not like he’s some up and coming guy whose roots are with the ACC and is brand new to the PAC-12. Listen to what he said about Wazzu when asked about our evolving success under Leach; Continuity and identity. He’s spot on! He talked about Leach recruiting the right players to fit his system. He doesn’t need five star guys to succeed. He goes after the same type of guys every year until his roster is filled with them. Do we have any single player who is head and shoulders better than everyone else? No. Yet as a collective, our team is potent.
Coach Smith is probably looking at our program as a model for future success and I think he has the knowledge, patience and leadership to win.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

hey man, I’m new to this board so not aware of its nuances, posters or their opinions. I just made an observation about Coach Smith. Personally I think he’s going to succeed at Oregon State. He did it as an undersized, lightly recruited QB. In fact, he helped bring that program to unprecedented heights. I believe as head coach he knows what it’s going to take for them to be successful again. He definitely knows the PAC-12, he knows the program he inherited and he knows what kind of players he needs to get it rolling. It’s not like he’s some up and coming guy whose roots are with the ACC and is brand new to the PAC-12. Listen to what he said about Wazzu when asked about our evolving success under Leach; Continuity and identity. He’s spot on! He talked about Leach recruiting the right players to fit his system. He doesn’t need five star guys to succeed. He goes after the same type of guys every year until his roster is filled with them. Do we have any single player who is head and shoulders better than everyone else? No. Yet as a collective, our team is potent.
Coach Smith is probably looking at our program as a model for future success and I think he has the knowledge, patience and leadership to win.

It will be interesting to see what he can do. That OSU job was a graveyard for a lot of coaching careers for around 30 years before Riley made people believe that they could compete and Erickson proved that they could.

 

[dgibbons]

I'm saying that the hole he dug in 2008 and 2009 where he lost the ENTIRE team meant that he didn't have any good players in 2010 that were upperclassmen that really believed in him. The guys recruited in 2006 and 2007 who should have been the core of that team were told that they were crap that needed to be weeded out. They played like they were just biding their time and getting their degrees. By 2011, Wulff did have enough of his own guys where our team had a heartbeat again, but the clock had run out on his rebuilding plan.....because all BS aside....WSU wasn't going to compete for a conference title in 2012 with Wulff at the helm. We might have competed for a bowl game, but we were still years away from being relevant.

Leach said a lot of negative crap about his players in 2012, but if you listen to the message, it was more along the lines of "these guys are playing like zombies, they don't care, they lack enthusiasm, etc...." Leach rarely publicly questioned anybody's talent, but he was relentless in questioning their effort.

Leach's message was play/work harder to win, rather than you're not capable of winning.

 

[GrayOnGray]

Since we are comparing Leach/WSU to Smith/OSU, I think it all comes down to how well the Beavs can recruit. Leach brought his own national brand to Pullman. There are other ways to resuscitate a program, but if Smith and his assistants can't get it done in recruiting it ain't gonna happen on the field. Don't know how we would have pulled out of the free falling nosedive if it hadn't been for a national name like, (in Minshew's words) "Thee Mike Leach."

Edit: "cant"

 

[froropmkr72]

Too win at OSU, like WSU, you have to be more than a "good coach" (Anderson) You have to have systems, or develop systems, able to win with less, at least for several years until upgraded recruiting arrives. The Air Raid is just that type of system offensively. Does Smith have such systems? Aren't they a run first team? If USC, with all its recruiting/talent, has been trying unsuccessfully for 30 years to get back to being a power football/run first team, what are OSU's chances? Run first offenses need better talent than thoses they play, and since the advent of speed defenses, even then they frequently have problems from week to week (its hard to run when you are outnumbered in the box with speed kids, no matter how many NFL type kids you have trying to swat flies). If OSU is now running the offense that Smith intends to run, long term, a future pink slip is inevitable.

hey man, I’m new to this board so not aware of its nuances, posters or their opinions. I just made an observation about Coach Smith. Personally I think he’s going to succeed at Oregon State. He did it as an undersized, lightly recruited QB. In fact, he helped bring that program to unprecedented heights. I believe as head coach he knows what it’s going to take for them to be successful again. He definitely knows the PAC-12, he knows the program he inherited and he knows what kind of players he needs to get it rolling. It’s not like he’s some up and coming guy whose roots are with the ACC and is brand new to the PAC-12. Listen to what he said about Wazzu when asked about our evolving success under Leach; Continuity and identity. He’s spot on! He talked about Leach recruiting the right players to fit his system. He doesn’t need five star guys to succeed. He goes after the same type of guys every year until his roster is filled with them. Do we have any single player who is head and shoulders better than everyone else? No. Yet as a collective, our team is potent.
Coach Smith is probably looking at our program as a model for future success and I think he has the knowledge, patience and leadership to win.

I think he'll succeed as well, but there might be some hard decisions along the way. Some players and a couple of coaches might not make the transition though. He'll not only prove his coaching ability, but his ability to make changes on his staff as well as sending a message to his current players. No one is going to reinvent the wheel here....so players need to buy in and those who don't need....... to meet the Portland State coaching staff.

 

[95coug]

Fab nails it for the most part but it was even more damaging than that. It wasn't just that he gave them excuses for losing, he told them that he didn't believe that they could win and essentially, he couldn't wait until they were gone so that he could win with "his guys". There is no more effective way to get minimal effort out of someone than to say that you can't wait for their replacement. He took a 2008 squad that might have flirted with 5 wins with good coaching and turned them into the worst team in WSU history. It was never going to be a "good team" but whenever Yaki or Tron says that he's the worst coach in the history of football, his exhibits A and B are pretty frickin' damning. He did bring in guys that he could work with over time and was making the team better, but given the terrible lows to start with, it's hard to think that he could have ever been really successful at WSU.

Getting back to Jonathon Smith, he's got a huge task in front of him. WSU has one of the best offenses in the country and OSU has one of the worst defenses in the country. I think that we wreck them this weekend something along the lines of 56-17. They then get Cal, CU, USC and Stanford....all of which are going to feel like they have something to prove. I won't be surprised to see them giving up half a hundred every game (except Stanford just because). The Beavers are giving up over 45 points per game right now and they are just getting started in conference play. It's going to be tough for him to keep this team pointed in the right direction this year.

Call me the pessimist, but I'm actually a little concerned about OSU. They've been running the ball pretty well, and I think USC and Utah have showed that that's where we're most vulnerable. The Beav's freshman RB ran for 250+ against ASU last week, averaging over 8 yards per carry. He's averaging over 6 ypc for the season. Artavis Pierce has been out, but he's got the kind of speed our D will have trouble with. He was supposed to be out 4 weeks with an elbow injury, I think this is week 4, not sure if he's back or not.

We're going to have trouble with offenses that can run. We don't have the depth on the DL for a sustained trench battle, and opponents that can hit us for 4 yards per carry are going to eat clock, wear out our D, and keep our offense off the field. In their two conference games, the Beavers have run the ball almost 2/3 of the time, and I expect we'll see more of the same.

On the plus side, I don't see anything that suggests their D can keep up with us. They give up a lot of yards - over 500 per game so far (their low was 357 against Nevada). Opponents complete 60% of their passes, and run for 6 yards per carry. They've given up a dozen scoring plays of 20+ yards (6 runs, 6 passes) and give up 45 points per game. The fewest points they've given up this season was 25 to Southern Utah, then 35 to Arizona (and Arizona hasn't scored more than 23 against anyone but Southern Utah).

So...if the Beavs are willing to put it on the ground (and it looks like they are), they could have some success. They seem to have figured out in the last couple weeks that keeping their defense off the field is a good idea, and they've been running a lot. If they can do that, maybe they can keep the score down a little. But considering how their D looks, our offense probably won't need that much time to score.

 

[Loyal Coug]

hey man, I’m new to this board so not aware of its nuances, posters or their opinions. .

And you are already causing trouble. You are like the dark sides of Ed, Tron, Yaki and gibbons all rolled into one.

Call me the pessimist, but I'm actually a little concerned about OSU. T.

This is pretty funny!

Seriously, I'm concerned too. I'm concerned that we won't get far enough ahead for Uncle Rico to get his 400 yards and Tinsley, Gordon and Cooper to all get a series or 2 in. We need to start bombing them from the first play.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Call me the pessimist, but I'm actually a little concerned about OSU. They've been running the ball pretty well, and I think USC and Utah have showed that that's where we're most vulnerable. The Beav's freshman RB ran for 250+ against ASU last week, averaging over 8 yards per carry. He's averaging over 6 ypc for the season. Artavis Pierce has been out, but he's got the kind of speed our D will have trouble with. He was supposed to be out 4 weeks with an elbow injury, I think this is week 4, not sure if he's back or not.

We're going to have trouble with offenses that can run. We don't have the depth on the DL for a sustained trench battle, and opponents that can hit us for 4 yards per carry are going to eat clock, wear out our D, and keep our offense off the field. In their two conference games, the Beavers have run the ball almost 2/3 of the time, and I expect we'll see more of the same.

On the plus side, I don't see anything that suggests their D can keep up with us. They give up a lot of yards - over 500 per game so far (their low was 357 against Nevada). Opponents complete 60% of their passes, and run for 6 yards per carry. They've given up a dozen scoring plays of 20+ yards (6 runs, 6 passes) and give up 45 points per game. The fewest points they've given up this season was 25 to Southern Utah, then 35 to Arizona (and Arizona hasn't scored more than 23 against anyone but Southern Utah).

So...if the Beavs are willing to put it on the ground (and it looks like they are), they could have some success. They seem to have figured out in the last couple weeks that keeping their defense off the field is a good idea, and they've been running a lot. If they can do that, maybe they can keep the score down a little. But considering how their D looks, our offense probably won't need that much time to score.

I shared your concern a lot more before the Utah game but we just beat a team that ran the ball down our throat all day long and has a lot better defense than OSU. I'm still worried about Stanford....but I'm feeling good about beating OSU.

 

[Coug1990]

I shared your concern a lot more before the Utah game but we just beat a team that ran the ball down our throat all day long and has a lot better defense than OSU. I'm still worried about Stanford....but I'm feeling good about beating OSU.

Utah ran the ball well in the first half, but were shut down in the second half. Even then, it was the QB, Tyler Huntley, that did the damage. RB Zach Moss gained 106 yards, but it took him 30 carries (3.5ypc). Huntley gained 88 yards on 17 carries (5.2ypc).

This is what Utah did running the ball in the second half each series:
5-16
1-4
4-10
1-0
5-16
5-9
This totals 21 carries for 55 yards (2.62ypc).

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Utah ran the ball well in the first half, but were shut down in the second half. Even then, it was the QB, Tyler Huntley, that did the damage. RB Zach Moss gained 106 yards, but it took him 30 carries (3.5ypc). Huntley gained 88 yards on 17 carries (5.2ypc).

This is what Utah did running the ball in the second half each series:
5-16
1-4
4-10
1-0
5-16
5-9
This totals 21 carries for 55 yards (2.62ypc).

Oh.....they didn't experience a lot of second half success doing it, which is another reason that I'm not worried about OSU.

 

[Coug1990]

Oh.....they didn't experience a lot of second half success doing it, which is another reason that I'm not worried about OSU.

I knew Utah didn't run the ball well in the second half, but the numbers were even worse than I thought. The half time adjustment was to stop the run and let Huntley win the game with his arm. He made several isolated plays with his arm, but he was not good enough to string several together.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I completely disagree. I also watched Jonathan's press conference. I did not see positive leadership skills as a head coach. I also saw complacency. His cupboard is bare, and he needs to push the talent what he has to extraordinary results. I frankly don't think he's got the right skill to motivate 2 star players to compete with the rest of the pack 12. If you watch his presser, he's just happy to hang with anybody, and say we're competitive.

Oregon State needs two things, from my perspective.

1. An extraordinary person, (coach) who can motivate anyone, regardless of talent. To get the players to believe they can. To believe they can win, and then win. This is hard to do, but you need a genius as a motivator to run this program.

2. Dump the logo and everything related to Beaver football as we know it. Their current logo reeks failure. They need a total overhaul, not just in coaches, players and talent, but a whole new identity.

Start with rolling out a new logo that effects all branding. Branding to high school is important, and their program needs a major branding and logo, (image) overhaul. Keep it the same, and you look like a loser. It's that simple.

To be fair, no one wins with 2 star talent. They just don't.

I like what he's doing on offense and think they'll be fine. He needs to surround himself with quality coaches and let them coach.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The second most important hire after the head coach is the strength and conditioning coach. Whoever you hire has to get kids as fast, as strong and as big as possible as fast as possible.

You want a confident team? Have 5 OL that bench 450 walk onto the field. Coach hard nosed football and they wont get muscled by anyone in the league. Harbaugh and Leach have laid out the blue prints of how to turn around a PAC 12 team. Smith would be wise to copy one or the other.

 

[Observer11]

The Husky fans I know praised the almighty when Smith returned to his Alma mater. He is reviled by many. The UW seriously upgraded with Hamden as he’s a recruiting machine. Petersen is the OC-in-fact so it’s not like the UW lost a play calling Svengali.

He’ll have a long leash at OSU because he’s that gritty little white guy who took their 2001 team to great heights - but that was really Uncle Denny bringing in his band of JCs/criminals more than anything.

OSU would be better served trying to be a basketball school.

WSU will drop them by 3 TDs at least this weekend.