Legitimately concerned

[PINGDUDE4]

Maybe I watched a different game. The only real complete horseshit call I saw was the PI on the TE, made by the back judge, who was in no position to make that call. But the same guy left the flag in his pocket on Winston's stiff arm on the game winner. You grab a guy around the waist and he goes down you're going to be flagged, you strike a QB in the head on a pass play you're going to be flagged. Two yards out of bounds, ditto. You hit a guy who isn't lowering his head, in the head. with anything but your face mask, you're gone, unless a P-12 exec is in the replay center.

Playing grabby coverage against these QBs was unnecessary, they had difficulty getting the ball on target, and their receivers couldn't beat my grandma deep.

What stiff arm are you talking about ? Just watched Winston's game winner several times and there is no stiff arm. Actually minimal hand contact by both players, and nothing that impeded either player.

The big missed call off the top were >

1) The illegal out of bounds hit against Thompson was ticky tack and mainly a great flop by the Cal QB ( refs need to be smarter than to reward these fake flops)

2) the targeting call was obviously bogus, mainly because it could be argued that the Cal player initiated the helmet contact as much as the WSU player. It was at best 50:50. The WSU player is one who actually went backwards. Not sure I've ever seen the player charged with targeting to be the one that fell backward.

3) The roughing the QB could have gone either way, but it sure looked on replay the WSU was blocked or pulled into the QB.

4) the PI on the TE was simply the player running into the DB and falling down

5) the defensive hold on Hunter Dale was crazy bad in that the back judge should have had a good angle and again the Cal player initiated all of the contact in order to run some sort of curl route. Other than hold his ground not sure what the WSU player even did.

6) the other part that doesn't make any sense is how WSU can throw so many passes and the other defenses are very rarely called for PI or holds. Is everybody they are playing loaded with NFL DB's . You can see holding and grabbing all over the place when WSU is passing and they let them play that way. That's fine expect when you turn it around they seem to call every close hold or PI when WSU is on defense.

 

[Coug90]

I thought the targeting call on Silvels was terrible. He did lower his head, but he hit the dude in the chest and his head bounced up towards the receiver's facemask. The picture posted by Silvels highlights how BS that call was. If he was targeting, 25% of all hits in college football are targeting. On Sherman, I'd agree that holding probably should have been called, but he was a dumbass for bringing his arm down on the QB's helmet. It was a lame call, but not the first time I saw that. A lot of the other calls were defensible, but the issue there becomes the uneven enforcement of them.

That’s the biggest problem. Stuff they were calling on us...more obvious calls were not going against them. The roughing the passer was a borderline judgement call they made. The face mask early in the game was an obvious one that the entire stadium saw and they didn’t call it. Comfort getting grabbed and whipped around like a WWF move at the point of attack on a run is an obvious hold, not called.

Any way you slice it this game was a total screw job and considering the recent history with these refs and bumbling idiots at the conference, I don’t think it was a coincidence.

 

[Loyal Coug]

What stiff arm are you talking about ? Just watched Winston's game winner several times and there is no stiff arm. Actually minimal hand contact by both players, and nothing that impeded either player.

The big missed call off the top were >

1) The illegal out of bounds hit against Thompson was ticky tack and mainly a great flop by the Cal QB ( refs need to be smarter than to reward these fake flops)

2) the targeting call was obviously bogus, mainly because it could be argued that the Cal player initiated the helmet contact as much as the WSU player. It was at best 50:50. The WSU player is one who actually went backwards. Not sure I've ever seen the player charged with targeting to be the one that fell backward.

3) The roughing the QB could have gone either way, but it sure looked on replay the WSU was blocked or pulled into the QB.

4) the PI on the TE was simply the player running into the DB and falling down

5) the defensive hold on Hunter Dale was crazy bad in that the back judge should have had a good angle and again the Cal player initiated all of the contact in order to run some sort of curl route. Other than hold his ground not sure what the WSU player even did.

6) the other part that doesn't make any sense is how WSU can throw so many passes and the other defenses are very rarely called for PI or holds. Is everybody they are playing loaded with NFL DB's . You can see holding and grabbing all over the place when WSU is passing and they let them play that way. That's fine expect when you turn it around they seem to call every close hold or PI when WSU is on defense.

Yeah the targeting was absolute BS. Silvels tweet spells it out. And the ref had his flag in hand - it hit the ground before the receiver. Well maybe. The roughing was BS too - our guys were not running through him. just a multiple player collision on a bang bang play.

 

[425cougfan]

Out of all of it, the one that sent me over the edge was the bogus holding call on Dale. Not only should it not have been called, but the flag came in after the ball had bounced on the turf a few times, supposedly for a pre-pass penalty, giving Cal an important 3rd down conversion. Right.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Out of all of it, the one that sent me over the edge was the bogus holding call on Dale. Not only should it not have been called, but the flag came in after the ball had bounced on the turf a few times, supposedly for a pre-pass penalty, giving Cal an important 3rd down conversion. Right.

The only saving grace on that holding call was that they made essentially the same call against Cal a little while later.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Maybe I watched a different game. The only real complete horseshit call I saw was the PI on the TE, made by the back judge, who was in no position to make that call. But the same guy left the flag in his pocket on Winston's stiff arm on the game winner. You grab a guy around the waist and he goes down you're going to be flagged, you strike a QB in the head on a pass play you're going to be flagged. Two yards out of bounds, ditto. You hit a guy who isn't lowering his head, in the head. with anything but your face mask, you're gone, unless a P-12 exec is in the replay center.

Playing grabby coverage against these QBs was unnecessary, they had difficulty getting the ball on target, and their receivers couldn't beat my grandma deep.

I'm with you. I honestly didn't even notice the officials too much this game. The Dale call was poor. They missed a facemask on Winston. Admittedly, I missed the Silvels targeting call, so can't comment on that. If anyone has video, I'd love to see it. Other than that, our DBs hold quite a bit. We've been talking about this all year.

Really, what are we talking about here? 3, maybe 4 bad calls/no calls? Yea guys, officiating is hard.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Two were for sure, the one on Hicks and the one on Thompson. The one on Dale was quite mysterious.

The personal foul on Sherman was bull. The OL should have been called for holding, and basically pushed Sherman into the QB.

Was that the one where the QB was hit in the head? If so, I mean, it was kind of ticky tack, but Pac12 officials are hardly the only ones that are going to call that roughing the passer.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Like I said, while ok for us to talk about it here, only way anything will, would be done, is, would be for us to hopefully successfully organize a CAMPAIGN to FIRE DIXON, SCOTT, USC, CAL GAME REFS, by:

1. Making up a petition, getting thousands of signatures, including Leach, Chun, Schultz, etc

2. Sending copies of petition to Media, Pac 12 office, NCAA office

3. Getting hundreds, thousands of Fans, Coaches, Media, to CONSTANTLY call Pac 12, Dixon, Scott, Pac 12 office over and over.

4. Hundreds, Thousands of Fans contacting Chun, Schultz, demanding that when they go to the Pac 12 meetings, they DEMAND USC, Cal game Refs, Dixon, Scott be fired.

5. So who here wants to, is willing to start this campaign, start contacting fans, media, etc, start work on petition, delegating that, this stuff to various coug fans?

7. Time to Put Up.........

That's all you dude.

 

[mikalalas]

Fab, yes officiating is hard. Yes there are missed calls, no calls, bad calls.

Yes there was only 3,4,5,6,7, etc, handful of missed, no calls, bad calls, etc, that may or may not be considered a little or a lot, etc.

What you and a few like you in the minority are not seeming to get:

Even 2,3,4,5,6 Missed Calls, No Calls, Bad Calls, CAN AND DO COST, CHANGE OUTCOMES, WINS AND LOSSES OF GAMES.

But like you said YES THAT HAPPENS.

And if it happens to a team like Beavers, UCLA this year, A 1,2 win team, then big deal it happens.

But when it is a 7-1,8-1 CFP contender, high stakes, then missed, bad calls, no calls, etc, ARE A BIG DEAL WHEN THEY CAN DO AFFECT THE OUTCOME.

even tho WSU wins despite the BS Calls, etc, and beats the refs, bad officiating, Cal, etc:

The cougs SHOULD HAVE AND WOULD HAVE WON BY A SCORE OF 30-10 AND PROBABLY 40 TO 50 TO 3 TO 7, instead of just barely winning last minute 19 to 13, and would have probably not been jumped by West Virginia, and would probably have jumped to 8, 9 in AP, and 6th in CFP.

In other words the bad officiating may have cost WSU #4 CFP.

But even that happens.

WHAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AS OFTEN, IS THE REFS, DIXON, SCOTT, PAC 12, A P5 CONFERENCE CONSISTENTLY NOT CALLING IT BOTH WAYS.

FAIR IS FAIR, RIGHT IS RIGHT, IF YOUR GOING TO CALL IT ONE WAY AGAINST THE COUGS, WSU, THEN MUST, SHOULD CALL IT AGAINST THE OTHER TEAM.

AND IF NOT GOING TO CALL IT AGAINST THE OTHER TEAM, THEN SHOULD NOT CALL IT AGAINST THE COUGS, WSU

But even that is understandable, happens, tho sucks.

Its when it happens CONSISTENTLY OVER AND OVER AND OVER TO WSU, AND DOES NOT CONSISTENTLY HAPPEN OVER AND OVER TO OTHER, MOST PAC 12 TEAMS.

And this SMACKS of the USC game Refs, other refs, Dixon, Scott, Pac 12 office trying to get back at WSU, Leach, over this scandal.

Even if that were not to be the case, IT LOOKS LIKE, APPEARS, SEEMS, SMELLS, SMACKS OF CRONYISM, CORRUPTION.

AT BEST ITS INCOMPETANCE, COINCIDENCE OF THE WORST KIND

BUT IF INCOMPETANCE, COINCIDENCE, ETC, INSTEAD OF CORRUPTION, ITS STRETCHING COINCIDENCE, ETC, EXTREMELY FAR.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT YOU AND OTHERS ARE NOT GETTING.

 

[mikalalas]

Also Fab, I have been a baseball, softball umpire at the highschool, rec, ASA, USSSA, etc.

Its not easy. Its hard.

If I had messed up as bad as the Refs have this year, the assigning secretary probably wouldnt have assigned me another game.

If I had messed up that bad in any of the baseball tournaments, play offs, etc, I probably wouldnt have been allowed to umpire any future tournaments, play offs.

And I am not making this up.

Gary Lawson was the guy in charge of the Columbia Basin Umpires Association.

And I umpired in Spokane, Moses Lake

 

[Fab5Coug]

That was the same crew that called the USC game.

No, it wasn't.

 

[dgibbons]

6) the other part that doesn't make any sense is how WSU can throw so many passes and the other defenses are very rarely called for PI or holds. Is everybody they are playing loaded with NFL DB's . You can see holding and grabbing all over the place when WSU is passing and they let them play that way. That's fine expect when you turn it around they seem to call every close hold or PI when WSU is on defense.

The inconsistency is infuriating, and it seems like half the time our receivers catch it anyway. Thankfully they called the second one on Harris. It was the same thing Hicks III did the Cal receiver that got flagged.

 

[chipdouglas]

FYI, I recall ESPN mentioning there were FIVE Cal drives extended by 3rd down penalties... and that was with over a quarter left to play.

Can't recall if it also happened in the 4th, but I don't think so.

 

[chipdouglas]

Maybe I watched a different game. The only real complete horseshit call I saw was the PI on the TE, made by the back judge, who was in no position to make that call. But the same guy left the flag in his pocket on Winston's stiff arm on the game winner. You grab a guy around the waist and he goes down you're going to be flagged, you strike a QB in the head on a pass play you're going to be flagged. Two yards out of bounds, ditto. You hit a guy who isn't lowering his head, in the head. with anything but your face mask, you're gone, unless a P-12 exec is in the replay center.

Playing grabby coverage against these QBs was unnecessary, they had difficulty getting the ball on target, and their receivers couldn't beat my grandma deep.

There is a contingent of every fan base who believe the refs are jobbing them. But I can't recall a time in decades of watching the Cougs where it felt like officials played such a central role in deciding the outcomes of our games (pretty consistently for the worse this year), or when even the most levelheaded, Alex-Jones-averse WSU fans are starting to lose their minds as well.

This is not just a bunch of card-carrying Krimson Kool-Aid homers complaining about missed OL holding calls. It's the clock not stopping on our final first down(s), the Silvels photo showing a head-up tits-level hit on the QB, the USC game, the Furd game, the inconsistent application of rules everybody agrees with.

I would be interested in seeing if conference opponents are dipping below their own penalty norm when they play the Cougs. That could be somewhat telling.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Fab, yes officiating is hard. Yes there are missed calls, no calls, bad calls.

Yes there was only 3,4,5,6,7, etc, handful of missed, no calls, bad calls, etc, that may or may not be considered a little or a lot, etc.

What you and a few like you in the minority are not seeming to get:

Even 2,3,4,5,6 Missed Calls, No Calls, Bad Calls, CAN AND DO COST, CHANGE OUTCOMES, WINS AND LOSSES OF GAMES.

But like you said YES THAT HAPPENS.

And if it happens to a team like Beavers, UCLA this year, A 1,2 win team, then big deal it happens.

But when it is a 7-1,8-1 CFP contender, high stakes, then missed, bad calls, no calls, etc, ARE A BIG DEAL WHEN THEY CAN DO AFFECT THE OUTCOME.

even tho WSU wins despite the BS Calls, etc, and beats the refs, bad officiating, Cal, etc:

The cougs SHOULD HAVE AND WOULD HAVE WON BY A SCORE OF 30-10 AND PROBABLY 40 TO 50 TO 3 TO 7, instead of just barely winning last minute 19 to 13, and would have probably not been jumped by West Virginia, and would probably have jumped to 8, 9 in AP, and 6th in CFP.

In other words the bad officiating may have cost WSU #4 CFP.

But even that happens.

WHAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AS OFTEN, IS THE REFS, DIXON, SCOTT, PAC 12, A P5 CONFERENCE CONSISTENTLY NOT CALLING IT BOTH WAYS.

FAIR IS FAIR, RIGHT IS RIGHT, IF YOUR GOING TO CALL IT ONE WAY AGAINST THE COUGS, WSU, THEN MUST, SHOULD CALL IT AGAINST THE OTHER TEAM.

AND IF NOT GOING TO CALL IT AGAINST THE OTHER TEAM, THEN SHOULD NOT CALL IT AGAINST THE COUGS, WSU

But even that is understandable, happens, tho sucks.

Its when it happens CONSISTENTLY OVER AND OVER AND OVER TO WSU, AND DOES NOT CONSISTENTLY HAPPEN OVER AND OVER TO OTHER, MOST PAC 12 TEAMS.

And this SMACKS of the USC game Refs, other refs, Dixon, Scott, Pac 12 office trying to get back at WSU, Leach, over this scandal.

Even if that were not to be the case, IT LOOKS LIKE, APPEARS, SEEMS, SMELLS, SMACKS OF CRONYISM, CORRUPTION.

AT BEST ITS INCOMPETANCE, COINCIDENCE OF THE WORST KIND

BUT IF INCOMPETANCE, COINCIDENCE, ETC, INSTEAD OF CORRUPTION, ITS STRETCHING COINCIDENCE, ETC, EXTREMELY FAR.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT YOU AND OTHERS ARE NOT GETTING.

No, I get it just fine. You don't have to explain Cougar conspiracy theories to me, I'm perfectly familiar with them.

 

[Coug95man2]

I would be interested in seeing if conference opponents are dipping below their own penalty norm when they play the Cougs. That could be somewhat telling.

Ohhhh. This is something that could be found by someone that has the time... meaning not me since I have, you know, a job. But please, someone look into this. This could be very interesting

 

[Coug90]

I'm with you. I honestly didn't even notice the officials too much this game. The Dale call was poor. They missed a facemask on Winston. Admittedly, I missed the Silvels targeting call, so can't comment on that. If anyone has video, I'd love to see it. Other than that, our DBs hold quite a bit. We've been talking about this all year.

Really, what are we talking about here? 3, maybe 4 bad calls/no calls? Yea guys, officiating is hard.

Good on you I wish I could have that perspective. I was losing my mind on Saturday night. If there’s any anti anxiety meds you’d recommend I’m all ears.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

What stiff arm are you talking about ? Just watched Winston's game winner several times and there is no stiff arm. Actually minimal hand contact by both players, and nothing that impeded either player.

The big missed call off the top were >

1) The illegal out of bounds hit against Thompson was ticky tack and mainly a great flop by the Cal QB ( refs need to be smarter than to reward these fake flops)

2) the targeting call was obviously bogus, mainly because it could be argued that the Cal player initiated the helmet contact as much as the WSU player. It was at best 50:50. The WSU player is one who actually went backwards. Not sure I've ever seen the player charged with targeting to be the one that fell backward.

3) The roughing the QB could have gone either way, but it sure looked on replay the WSU was blocked or pulled into the QB.

4) the PI on the TE was simply the player running into the DB and falling down

5) the defensive hold on Hunter Dale was crazy bad in that the back judge should have had a good angle and again the Cal player initiated all of the contact in order to run some sort of curl route. Other than hold his ground not sure what the WSU player even did.

6) the other part that doesn't make any sense is how WSU can throw so many passes and the other defenses are very rarely called for PI or holds. Is everybody they are playing loaded with NFL DB's . You can see holding and grabbing all over the place when WSU is passing and they let them play that way. That's fine expect when you turn it around they seem to call every close hold or PI when WSU is on defense.

One more thing on the Thompson oob play: football in general has become this sport where ALL of the defense is supposed to magically contort or otherwise sacrifice their bodies to injury in order to never make contact with the qb, ever. Clay Matthews can no longer form tackle, because he might exert weight on the qb. In this example, Thompson was being blocked oob and into Garbers and when contact what imminent he put his hands up to brace himself so he wouldn't be completely vulnerable if/ when they collided. He didn't shove Garbers, he didn't trip him.

But the refs are so conditioned to just call rules they can't make any judgement calls, just like the BS targeting: Oh, helmet touched helmet, and the poor 6'7" receiver was "helpless", so must be targeting. But I digress.

To address the OP of this thread: if there were a conspiracy it would be to simply call as many fouls as possible against the Cougs so that they become the "undisciplined, penalty team" so that when fouls go against them the argument can be made that "hey, they suck and need to get better." Like our DBs, right? They just suck and can't cover (right?), so every flag against them is arguably a good call.

This isn't Alex Jones, btw. This happened to the Seahawks after their superbowl season: teams playing the Seahawks saw their penalties go DOWN for that one game vs the rest of the year, while the Seahawks net penalties went up. (or something like that. I think I'm close). Anyway, it was a real phenomenon of the Seahawks getting hosed by the refs.

 

[acgcoug]

I felt like we were given the benefit of the doubt on calls earlier in the year when we played generally considered lesser programs in Wyoming, Eastern, and San Jose State. Very much so vs Wyoming.

Once Pac-12 started, the complete opposite has happened in just about every game, and in numerous games at a ridiculous level.

It feels like their is a lower perception of our team by refs, similar to the abundance of football fans outside of Cougar nation that think lowly of our program and are often hesitant to give us credit when credit is due. We always have to do more to prove ourselves. I just get this feeling that this pseudo effect, or whatever you call it trickles down to lesser viewed programs across the country. You see this with the NCAA execs, CFP committees, the Coaches poll, the large media outlets, college football fans, etc, and I truly believe this trickles down to the refs, and it impacts their decision making in games.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

A little fodder for conspiracy theorists :

Penalty yardage in the last 2 games after Leach's private texts critical of the Pac 12 were released :

Stanford Game :

WSU penalty yards : 89 ( 10 higher than season average or 12 % higher)

Stanford penalty yards : 18 ( 20 lower than season average or 50% lower)

Cal Game

WSU Penalty yards : 80 yards ( right on season average)

Cal Penalty yards : 25 yards ( which is 25 yards lower than season average or just like Stanford 50% lower)

Not sure how anyone that is unbiased could not see that something is going on here. It actually supports what my eyes were telling me watching the games. It is not a matter that WSU is being overly penalized against their averages , it is clearly the refs are eating their flags on calling penalties on the the opponents. If they just called the game on seasonal averages it would be net pick-up of over 25 yards a game for WSU, which is significant in close games especially with the timing of the penalties.

 

[Cougatron]

I would be interested in seeing if conference opponents are dipping below their own penalty norm when they play the Cougs. That could be somewhat telling.

Ohhhh. This is something that could be found by someone that has the time... meaning not me since I have, you know, a job. But please, someone look into this. This could be very interesting

Well I do always have excel open so here's what I got so far.

Stanford averages - 5 penalties for 37 yards
They were called for 3 penalties for 20 yards against us. That is the lowest they've had for the season.

Cal averages - 6 penalties for 54 yards.
They were called for 2 for 25 yards. That is the lowest they've had for the season.

So there is that. I am putting all of the penalties into a spreadsheet so let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Cougatron]

A little fodder for conspiracy theorists :

Penalty yardage in the last 2 games after Leach's private texts critical of the Pac 12 were released :

Stanford Game :

WSU penalty yards : 89 ( 10 higher than season average or 12 % higher)

Stanford penalty yards : 18 ( 20 lower than season average or 50% lower)

Cal Game

WSU Penalty yards : 80 yards ( right on season average)

Cal Penalty yards : 25 yards ( which is 25 yards lower than season average or just like Stanford 50% lower)

Not sure how anyone that is unbiased could not see that something is going on here. It actually supports what my eyes were telling me watching the games. It is not a matter that WSU is being overly penalized against their averages , it is clearly the refs are eating their flags on calling penalties on the the opponents. If they just called the game on seasonal averages it would be net pick-up of over 25 yards a game for WSU, which is significant in close games especially with the timing of the penalties.

Hahaha I am doing this too and that's exactly what I got.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

One more thing on the Thompson oob play: football in general has become this sport where ALL of the defense is supposed to magically contort or otherwise sacrifice their bodies to injury in order to never make contact with the qb, ever. Clay Matthews can no longer form tackle, because he might exert weight on the qb. In this example, Thompson was being blocked oob and into Garbers and when contact what imminent he put his hands up to brace himself so he wouldn't be completely vulnerable if/ when they collided. He didn't shove Garbers, he didn't trip him.

But the refs are so conditioned to just call rules they can't make any judgement calls, just like the BS targeting: Oh, helmet touched helmet, and the poor 6'7" receiver was "helpless", so must be targeting. But I digress.

To address the OP of this thread: if there were a conspiracy it would be to simply call as many fouls as possible against the Cougs so that they become the "undisciplined, penalty team" so that when fouls go against them the argument can be made that "hey, they suck and need to get better." Like our DBs, right? They just suck and can't cover (right?), so every flag against them is arguably a good call.

This isn't Alex Jones, btw. This happened to the Seahawks after their superbowl season: teams playing the Seahawks saw their penalties go DOWN for that one game vs the rest of the year, while the Seahawks net penalties went up. (or something like that. I think I'm close). Anyway, it was a real phenomenon of the Seahawks getting hosed by the refs.

Thompson did a little shove at the end that justified that call. That's always a no-no. http://www.espn.com/watch?id=3452658&t=01h02m35s

See the clip if you'd like. It's at 1:02:35 or so.

EDIT: The Silvels foul happens a little over a minute later....and it is total BS....even a day later.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Well I do always have excel open so here's what I got so far.

Stanford averages - 5 penalties for 37 yards
They were called for 3 penalties for 20 yards against us. That is the lowest they've had for the season.

Cal averages - 6 penalties for 54 yards.
They were called for 2 for 25 yards. That is the lowest they've had for the season.

So there is that. I am putting all of the penalties into a spreadsheet so let me know if you have any questions.

something along the lines of "PI/holding calls for vs Pass attempt", especially vs our team. Something to prove/ disprove that we are getting an inordinate amount of PI/ def holding calls.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Thompson did a little shove at the end that justified that call. That's always a no-no. http://www.espn.com/watch?id=3452658&t=01h02m35s

See the clip if you'd like. It's at 1:02:35 or so.

EDIT: The Silvels foul happens a little over a minute later....and it is total BS....even a day later.

Garber's trajectory didn't even change. If he wanted to shove him, he would have moved him back into the sidelines. Their arms get tangled and Garbers gets turned a bit. Even the commentator says "Even if you're getting blocked into him, you can't extend your arms", which begs the question "wth is a player supposed to do? Sacrifice their own body so the QB can go unscathed?

That being said, a) I don't know why you always fall on the side of our players being in the wrong. It doesn't make you level headed or fair, it makes you seem like you're a masochist, and b) I'm not going to argue Thompson's intentions like we did with Tago, but I will concede that Thompson is going to get called on that and it was the right call, but I think its bullshit that a defensive player is in no way allowed to defend themselves from injury for the sake of protecting one player.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Garber's trajectory didn't even change. If he wanted to shove him, he would have moved him back into the sidelines. Their arms get tangled and Garbers gets turned a bit. Even the commentator says "Even if you're getting blocked into him, you can't extend your arms", which begs the question "wth is a player supposed to do? Sacrifice their own body so the QB can go unscathed?

That being said, a) I don't know why you always fall on the side of our players being in the wrong. It doesn't make you level headed or fair, it makes you seem like you're a masochist, and b) I'm not going to argue Thompson's intentions like we did with Tago, but I will concede that Thompson is going to get called on that and it was the right call, but I think its bullshit that a defensive player is in no way allowed to defend themselves from injury for the sake of protecting one player.

Holy crap......what do you mean with the crap about opposing our players? In the same post where I said that Thompon shouldn't have shoved the guy.....I said that Silvels got screwed? WTF?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Holy crap......what do you mean with the crap about opposing our players? In the same post where I said that Thompon shouldn't have shoved the guy.....I said that Silvels got screwed? WTF?

I need to dig up the "Tago is a dirty player" thread?

"Thompson gave a shove." He didn't. But yeah, you've totally got our guys' backs.

 

[CougEd]

Yeah the targeting was absolute BS. Silvels tweet spells it out. And the ref had his flag in hand - it hit the ground before the receiver. Well maybe. The roughing was BS too - our guys were not running through him. just a multiple player collision on a bang bang play.

That rule seems to be fluid. I always thought it was helmet to helmet. Then I understood it was leading with the crown of the helmet. DS did not hit the Cal players helmet, HE sure looked like he buried his face mask. Not sure why that is targeting.

 

[Cougatron]

something along the lines of "PI/holding calls for vs Pass attempt", especially vs our team. Something to prove/ disprove that we are getting an inordinate amount of PI/ def holding calls.

Hmm that one will prove difficult to do since they don't sort penalties.

 

[CougEd]

Garber's trajectory didn't even change. If he wanted to shove him, he would have moved him back into the sidelines. Their arms get tangled and Garbers gets turned a bit. Even the commentator says "Even if you're getting blocked into him, you can't extend your arms", which begs the question "wth is a player supposed to do? Sacrifice their own body so the QB can go unscathed?

That being said, a) I don't know why you always fall on the side of our players being in the wrong. It doesn't make you level headed or fair, it makes you seem like you're a masochist, and b) I'm not going to argue Thompson's intentions like we did with Tago, but I will concede that Thompson is going to get called on that and it was the right call, but I think its bullshit that a defensive player is in no way allowed to defend themselves from injury for the sake of protecting one player.

He already stepped out of bounds. Yeah he didn't get him with a lot of force, but don't touch him.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I need to dig up the "Tago is a dirty player" thread?

"Thompson gave a shove." He didn't. But yeah, you've totally got our guys' backs.

Man....go find another crusade. I never said Tago is a dirty player. Now you're just making sh!t up. I said that Tago hit the QB late, which everybody in the world outside of Coug fans agree on. I also said that I didn't think that Tago should have been called for targeting because he didn't dip his helmet to target Daniels, he was going after the football, even though it was a bad choice to do so.

So....color me objective and a guy who calls a spade a spade.....but don't for a minute think that I don't support our guys when they get screwed.

EDIT: And find a thread where I called Tago a dirty player. I'll bet you $100 to the CAF that you can't find it. Here's the link when you're ready to donate: https://cougarsareyouin.com/2018/index2.php

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Man....go find another crusade. I never said Tago is a dirty player. Now you're just making sh!t up. I said that Tago hit the QB late, which everybody in the world outside of Coug fans agree on. I also said that I didn't think that Tago should have been called for targeting because he didn't dip his helmet to target Daniels, he was going after the football, even though it was a bad choice to do so.

So....color me objective and a guy who calls a spade a spade.....but don't for a minute think that I don't support our guys when they get screwed.

Like Barber and Luani? Keep it up, you're making a hell of a case for yourself...

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

He already stepped out of bounds. Yeah he didn't get him with a lot of force, but don't touch him.

And how, pray tell, should Thompson subvert the laws of physics and prevent two solid bodies from colliding? I'll never fault a player for defending themselves from injury or collision.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Like Barber and Luani? Keep it up, you're making a hell of a case for yourself...

Check out my other post. Find a spot where I called Tago dirty. I'll bet you $100 it ain't there. Of course....you won't take that bet because you might as well get your checkbook out.

On Barber and Luani....you're reaching so far you're going to dislocate your shoulder. I said that Luani was a dumbass to be out at night drunk and arguing with idiots at a pizza joint. I never called him dirty....I called him a dumbass. On Barber, I said that he was an a$$hole for beating the crap out of a dude half his size and I'm plenty ready to stick by that. Dude ruined his career because he had to prove what a big man he was to some drunk douchebag on a hot summer night. If Barber had any self respect, he wouldn't have felt the need to get in that fight.

Let's stick to the discussion at hand, which is that our players are not being treated fairly by the conference officials right now. We all agree on that. I don't think that every call that goes against us is a bad call, and that doesn't mean that I hate our players, it means that sometimes, our players make mistakes, just like every other team's players.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Check out my other post. Find a spot where I called Tago dirty. I'll bet you $100 it ain't there. Of course....you won't take that bet because you might as well get your checkbook out.

On Barber and Luani....you're reaching so far you're going to dislocate your shoulder. I said that Luani was a dumbass to be out at night drunk and arguing with idiots at a pizza joint. I never called him dirty....I called him a dumbass. On Barber, I said that he was an a$$hole for beating the crap out of a dude half his size and I'm plenty ready to stick by that. Dude ruined his career because he had to prove what a big man he was to some drunk douchebag on a hot summer night. If Barber had any self respect, he wouldn't have felt the need to get in that fight.

Let's stick to the discussion at hand, which is that our players are not being treated fairly by the conference officials right now. We all agree on that. I don't think that every call that goes against us is a bad call, and that doesn't mean that I hate our players, it means that sometimes, our players make mistakes, just like every other team's players.

My point is that, as I said, you never side with our players - you know, give them the benefit of the doubt. They're always in the wrong, somehow. Luani can't defend himself getting jumped by 4 dudes - no, its his fault for being... alive, basically. Doing what any other of us might have been doing while we are at college - being drunk, getting food, yapping at frat douchebags. But yeah, he should know better.

Whatever, I should know better than to argue with you about your moral high ground, and I'll try not to do it again. You are entitled to be wrong about our players and their intentions, I'm not the boss of you.

As was stated above, we're not being directly targeted unfairly by officials, we are being targeted by omission of calls against the other team.

 

[Cougsocal]

I thought the targeting call on Silvels was terrible. He did lower his head, but he hit the dude in the chest and his head bounced up towards the receiver's facemask. The picture posted by Silvels highlights how BS that call was. If he was targeting, 25% of all hits in college football are targeting. On Sherman, I'd agree that holding probably should have been called, but he was a dumbass for bringing his arm down on the QB's helmet. It was a lame call, but not the first time I saw that. A lot of the other calls were defensible, but the issue there becomes the uneven enforcement of them.

Striking with an upward thurst as in

• A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground.

So based on what you saw, its targeting, by definition. Any blow intending to "lay some wood" above the mid section is targeting, basically. Like it or not. Why we didn't get the call against USC, with the P-12 still claiming they made the right call, is the real controvesy.

 

[CougEd]

Fab, yes officiating is hard. Yes there are missed calls, no calls, bad calls.

Yes there was only 3,4,5,6,7, etc, handful of missed, no calls, bad calls, etc, that may or may not be considered a little or a lot, etc.

What you and a few like you in the minority are not seeming to get:

Even 2,3,4,5,6 Missed Calls, No Calls, Bad Calls, CAN AND DO COST, CHANGE OUTCOMES, WINS AND LOSSES OF GAMES.

But like you said YES THAT HAPPENS.

And if it happens to a team like Beavers, UCLA this year, A 1,2 win team, then big deal it happens.

But when it is a 7-1,8-1 CFP contender, high stakes, then missed, bad calls, no calls, etc, ARE A BIG DEAL WHEN THEY CAN DO AFFECT THE OUTCOME.

even tho WSU wins despite the BS Calls, etc, and beats the refs, bad officiating, Cal, etc:

The cougs SHOULD HAVE AND WOULD HAVE WON BY A SCORE OF 30-10 AND PROBABLY 40 TO 50 TO 3 TO 7, instead of just barely winning last minute 19 to 13, and would have probably not been jumped by West Virginia, and would probably have jumped to 8, 9 in AP, and 6th in CFP.

In other words the bad officiating may have cost WSU #4 CFP.

But even that happens.

WHAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AS OFTEN, IS THE REFS, DIXON, SCOTT, PAC 12, A P5 CONFERENCE CONSISTENTLY NOT CALLING IT BOTH WAYS.

FAIR IS FAIR, RIGHT IS RIGHT, IF YOUR GOING TO CALL IT ONE WAY AGAINST THE COUGS, WSU, THEN MUST, SHOULD CALL IT AGAINST THE OTHER TEAM.

AND IF NOT GOING TO CALL IT AGAINST THE OTHER TEAM, THEN SHOULD NOT CALL IT AGAINST THE COUGS, WSU

But even that is understandable, happens, tho sucks.

Its when it happens CONSISTENTLY OVER AND OVER AND OVER TO WSU, AND DOES NOT CONSISTENTLY HAPPEN OVER AND OVER TO OTHER, MOST PAC 12 TEAMS.

And this SMACKS of the USC game Refs, other refs, Dixon, Scott, Pac 12 office trying to get back at WSU, Leach, over this scandal.

Even if that were not to be the case, IT LOOKS LIKE, APPEARS, SEEMS, SMELLS, SMACKS OF CRONYISM, CORRUPTION.

AT BEST ITS INCOMPETANCE, COINCIDENCE OF THE WORST KIND

BUT IF INCOMPETANCE, COINCIDENCE, ETC, INSTEAD OF CORRUPTION, ITS STRETCHING COINCIDENCE, ETC, EXTREMELY FAR.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT YOU AND OTHERS ARE NOT GETTING.

Players can control what they control. You can't touch a player when they are three yards out of bounds.

And the score---I think you are selling what Cal did on defense short. Also, if we don't fumble the ball after the pick we probably win 30-10.

 

[CougEd]

And how, pray tell, should Thompson subvert the laws of physics and prevent two solid bodies from colliding? I'll never fault a player for defending themselves from injury or collision.

They are athletes, they are able to avoid collisions. plant with the left foot and go 90 degrees to the right. It wasn't overt, but he did touch him.

 

[chipdouglas]

Ohhhh. This is something that could be found by someone that has the time... meaning not me since I have, you know, a job. But please, someone look into this. This could be very interesting

Built this off what ESPN showed. Below are opponent penalty yards in their WSU game vs. all their other conference games.

Tinfoil Hat Thoughts:

• Teams - especially conference royalty (Furd, SC, Oregon) - get dinged less when they play WSU
• By contrast, we possibly enjoy some "protection" from non-royalty: OSU, Utah
• The gap to Oregon would have been more severe than 8% except for their 1-penalty game this weekend vs UCLA
• WSU has gotten a lot of penalties this year (conference game average is 8 for 82 - that has to lead the PAC). I assume most are legit?
  
• IF there is really something going on, my hypothesis would be three-fold:
  • Early season playoff hopeful teams (SC, Oregon, Furd) are protected against an insurgent threat (WSU)
  • Leach texts ratchet up punishment in subsequent games
  • Some percentage of the variation is truly random

 

[Cougatron]

Built this off what ESPN showed. Below are opponent penalty yards in their WSU game vs. all their other conference games.

Tinfoil Hat Thoughts:

• Teams - especially conference royalty (Furd, SC, Oregon) - get dinged less when they play WSU
• By contrast, we possibly enjoy some "protection" from non-royalty: OSU, Utah
• The gap to Oregon would have been more severe than 8% except for their 1-penalty game this weekend vs UCLA
• WSU has gotten a lot of penalties this year (conference game average is 8 for 82 - that has to lead the PAC). I assume most are legit?
  
• IF there is really something going on, my hypothesis would be three-fold:
  • Early season playoff hopeful teams (SC, Oregon, Furd) are protected against an insurgent threat (WSU)
  • Leach texts ratchet up punishment in subsequent games
  • Some percentage of the variation is truly random

I question how legit some of the calls are. One thing that is hard to get is the actual penalties on infraction.

I assume that most of our penalties are pass interference as that what sticks out to me we are called for most.

We’ve had multiple (defensive delay of game)
And a ton of Pass interference.
I don’t know how much holding / false starts we have but I assume it is minimal. I will look at the game logs and see if penalties are listed.