Lets just go ahead and admit...

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

No matter who comes in, its going to be underwhelming.

I remember before we hired Leach and the rumors swirling and thinking "that would be a get" and being over the moon, because it was a get.

But whats out there right now are either retreads or unproven at the P5 level. We'll be paying below market wage again I suspect, and more than likely get below market results.

There is literally no one out there that moves the needle all that much for me.

I feel like we HAVE to have a splash hire to compensate for deficiencies elsewhere. Crystalball was a snooze of a hire, but they have all the money of Nike and Uncle Phil doing personal meet and greets with recruits during games to keep them relevant. But all that being said, unless we poach Kyle Whittingham (not saying I want him, but it would be splashy) or another P5 proven coach, it just feels like its going to be a let down regardless.

Either way, Go Cougs. Hope Chun can make chicken salad...

 

[royhobbs2]

Pairing an air raid HC with a top notch DC, would be the smartest move that Chun could make imo.

 

[CougPatrol]

I'm not admitting that. As much as I love Leach, I consider him to be a program builder, and not an elite, big-game coach. He has a bold personality. He's a fun, quirky guy; but after 8 years, it was time for him to move on.

If we make a good hire, we'll be able to shake things up and keep things rolling.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Pairing an air raid HC with a top notch DC, would be the smartest move that Chun could make imo.

To your point, I think I'll be more interested in seeing who the DC ends up being.

Which brings to light the point of: now our DC search is getting pushed back even more because presumably Chun will want the HC's input on it.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I'm not admitting that. As much as I love Leach, I consider him to be a program builder, and not an elite, big-game coach. He has a bold personality. He's a fun, quirky guy; but after 8 years, it was time for him to move on.

If we make a good hire, we'll be able to shake things up and keep things rolling.

Cool.

Who out there will legitimately get you excited for Cougar football this fall? Who would you drive to the airport to go meet?

 

[NMBRCRNCHR]

I don't agree one bit, getting one of the Leach disciples that is young and up and coming and pair that with a good DC would be a splash in my book. Not only for me, but for recruits.

I hope we hire someone that is younger (read - hungrier) who has an offensive system that is similar to what we already run and can recruit to it. I really think we are in good hands with Chun, he isn't an idiot. Hiring a guy like Macilwain would be silly at best considering our roster.

 

[CougPatrol]

Cool.

Who out there will legitimately get you excited for Cougar football this fall? Who would you drive to the airport to go meet?

Not sure. I don't get excited by names. A lot of people are giddy about Harrell and Grinch. I'm not. IMO, both of those guys see Pullman as beneath them. A place to cut their teeth at and move on.

 

[NMBRCRNCHR]

And what is wrong with that if they succeed?! I just don't get that mentality

Not sure. I don't get excited by names. A lot of people are giddy about Harrell and Grinch. I'm not. IMO, both of those guys see Pullman as beneath them. A place to cut their teeth at and move on.

 

[royhobbs2]

Harrell knows the air raid about as well as Leach and maybe has a fresh perspective since he qb'd in the air raid and coached a different offense at usc. His dad is a coach and GH has been around football his whole life. Hed be a great hire-if you spent the money to bring a top notch DC.

I think WSU would continue to go to bowl games with GH, assuming the DC/staff gets solidified.

USC board has a thread about GH going to WSU and what a melt down it would cause USC.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Not sure. I don't get excited by names. A lot of people are giddy about Harrell and Grinch. I'm not. IMO, both of those guys see Pullman as beneath them. A place to cut their teeth at and move on.

You just described every WSU coach ever. If they dont when they get here they do after a year or two. Even ever faithful MP got too big for his britches.

 

[earldacoug]

Not sure. I don't get excited by names. A lot of people are giddy about Harrell and Grinch. I'm not. IMO, both of those guys see Pullman as beneath them. A place to cut their teeth at and move on.

3.5 mil would make them think they are on top of the world !!

 

[CougPatrol]

And what is wrong with that if they succeed?! I just don't get that mentality

There's nothing wrong with it, but it means we'd be hiring again in 2-3 years. IMO, both Grinch and Harrell are the types who would leave after 1 or 2 seasons if the right opportunity came around.

 

[chugspig]

The only way they move on is if they do a pretty good job. Or a really awful one. So it is what it is. I don’t know that I would like to have someone who knows they want to be here forever before they even get to work.

 

[95coug]

No matter who comes in, its going to be underwhelming.

I remember before we hired Leach and the rumors swirling and thinking "that would be a get" and being over the moon, because it was a get.

But whats out there right now are either retreads or unproven at the P5 level. We'll be paying below market wage again I suspect, and more than likely get below market results.

There is literally no one out there that moves the needle all that much for me.

I feel like we HAVE to have a splash hire to compensate for deficiencies elsewhere. Crystalball was a snooze of a hire, but they have all the money of Nike and Uncle Phil doing personal meet and greets with recruits during games to keep them relevant. But all that being said, unless we poach Kyle Whittingham (not saying I want him, but it would be splashy) or another P5 proven coach, it just feels like its going to be a let down regardless.

Either way, Go Cougs. Hope Chun can make chicken salad...

There are 3 names I can think of that could match the excitement that came when Leach was hired. I think all of them would have immediate success. I think there's zero chance any of them are possible.

Urban Meyer (won't even take the call)
Pete Carroll (won't take the call)
Bob Stoops (might take the call, isn't coming)

This isn't going to be a big splash, exciting hire. It's more likely to be a caretaker/transition hire.

 

[dgibbons]

No matter who comes in, its going to be underwhelming.

I remember before we hired Leach and the rumors swirling and thinking "that would be a get" and being over the moon, because it was a get.

But whats out there right now are either retreads or unproven at the P5 level. We'll be paying below market wage again I suspect, and more than likely get below market results.

There is literally no one out there that moves the needle all that much for me.

I feel like we HAVE to have a splash hire to compensate for deficiencies elsewhere. Crystalball was a snooze of a hire, but they have all the money of Nike and Uncle Phil doing personal meet and greets with recruits during games to keep them relevant. But all that being said, unless we poach Kyle Whittingham (not saying I want him, but it would be splashy) or another P5 proven coach, it just feels like its going to be a let down regardless.

Either way, Go Cougs. Hope Chun can make chicken salad...

Who's on the market that would be a splashy hire? I don't see anyone. Lots of "hot" coaches got locked down with extensions or found new jobs already in December.

 

[CougPatrol]

You just described every WSU coach ever. If they dont when they get here they do after a year or two. Even ever faithful MP got too big for his britches.

Not every coach. Walden stuck around at a time when we needed stability. Price was a constant. Leach was a constant. Grinch or Harrell would be Dennis Erickson. You can bank on that.

 

[royhobbs2]

Grinch would be ass backwards imo. Hire the air raid continuity hc then get a top notch dc.

 

[Coug90]

There are 3 names I can think of that could match the excitement that came when Leach was hired. I think all of them would have immediate success. I think there's zero chance any of them are possible.

Urban Meyer (won't even take the call)
Pete Carroll (won't take the call)
Bob Stoops (might take the call, isn't coming)

This isn't going to be a big splash, exciting hire. It's more likely to be a caretaker/transition hire.

Who cares if it’s a splash. We need continuity of the offense, an understanding of how to improve the defense, and a good recruiter or someone who can bring in good recruiters. That happens, this team will improve from Leach.

 

[dgibbons]

There's nothing wrong with it, but it means we'd be hiring again in 2-3 years. IMO, both Grinch and Harrell are the types who would leave after 1 or 2 seasons if the right opportunity came around.

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it, after celebrating that coach's success.

 

[dgibbons]

There are 3 names I can think of that could match the excitement that came when Leach was hired. I think all of them would have immediate success. I think there's zero chance any of them are possible.

Urban Meyer (won't even take the call)
Pete Carroll (won't take the call)
Bob Stoops (might take the call, isn't coming)

This isn't going to be a big splash, exciting hire. It's more likely to be a caretaker/transition hire.

I kind of see it that way too. So, I go back to Rocky Long HC, Harrell OC and coach in waiting and Arnett as DC.

Stoops is intriguing because of the name (obviously), and being a defensive oriented coach that's comfortable with the Air Raid.

 

[CougPatrol]

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it, after celebrating that coach's success.

I'm not sure Grinch would succeed as HC. Of the two, I'd be more on board with Harrell.

 

[Coug90]

I'm not sure Grinch would succeed as HC. Of the two, I'd be more on board with Harrell.

Curious why you feel that way? I don’t have a feeling either way, although quite confident if Grinch does well, we’d be searching for another coach in 2-3 years again as he’d bolt to a bigger pond in a heartbeat.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Curious why you feel that way? I don’t have a feeling either way, although quite confident if Grinch does well, we’d be searching for another coach in 2-3 years again as he’d bolt to a bigger pond in a heartbeat.

Maybe he just didnt get along with Leach?

 

[Brent H.]

We don't know anything yet. Compared to when we found out that we hired Leach, nothing will live up to that, but the coaches that we are hearing about all do have solid resumes. We are in a good spot and that is thanks to Leach, Chun and while he left us like a turd, Moos. If it's Rolo from Hawaii, I'll be optimistic, I think he can bring some flavor to Wazzu. If Chun pulls a rabbit out of his hat and hires somebody like Stoops, but he could surprise and get Luke Fickell and I'll be elated. It's a wait and see. I'm not a doom and gloom about this. Losing Leach sucks in ways, but maybe it opens up the door for a coach to come and raise the level where Leach left off. It's an important hire, but I trust Chun will get it right. He's been aces since he's got here IMO.

 

[Coug82]

Everyone understands the balance act 'tween "staying" & moving on with GH or Grinch.. but maybe I'm naive & too much of an optimist... If the aforementioned were hired now and throw into the equation that Mastro and/or Wilson became OC & DC respectively and due to the --hopefully-- successful GH or Grinch depart... one of them could ascend?

 

[froropmkr72]

I kind of see it that way too. So, I go back to Rocky Long HC, Harrell OC and coach in waiting and Arnett as DC.

Stoops is intriguing because of the name (obviously), and being a defensive oriented coach that's comfortable with the Air Raid.

I think there's going to be a lot to be excited about depending on who the new coach hires on the other side of the ball. Rocky Long would be an excellent idea in a 2-3 stint with a clear understudy that's making a good salary. If there's another million for assistants...it opens up a lot of options. This isn't the 2009' payroll.

 

[425cougfan]

I agree we're not going to get a splash like Leach was, and there's major potential for a name that is underwhelming to most.

Good news, though:

- I am pretty confident Chun won't just make a lazy hire out of a misapplied desire to hire a "name," but only bringing in a mediocre one. An example of this is Moos' Kent hire in basketball. Just a garbage fit for Pullman coming out of a horrible process. Mora's name being leaked gives me some misgivings, but I'm pretty hopeful Kent won't do this.
- More generally, his Smith hire indicates that he uses a solid process in hiring.
- Some "splashes" are realistic. A former P5 head coach with something like an 84-43 record, as I recall, who was a huge name nationally? Probably not. Some hires like Grinch or Harrell would be a pretty big splash in a different way, though, and pretty exciting in their own way. I don't think we're in for something like Troy Taylor here.

 

[Ffffws]

And what is wrong with that if they succeed?! I just don't get that mentality

If our head coach is poached, that means we went to a bowl game.

 

[Ffffws]

I agree we're not going to get a splash like Leach was, and there's major potential for a name that is underwhelming to most.

Good news, though:

- I am pretty confident Chun won't just make a lazy hire out of a misapplied desire to hire a "name," but only bringing in a mediocre one. An example of this is Moos' Kent hire in basketball. Just a garbage fit for Pullman coming out of a horrible process. Mora's name being leaked gives me some misgivings, but I'm pretty hopeful Kent won't do this.
- More generally, his Smith hire indicates that he uses a solid process in hiring.
- Some "splashes" are realistic. A former P5 head coach with something like an 84-43 record, as I recall, who was a huge name nationally? Probably not. Some hires like Grinch or Harrell would be a pretty big splash in a different way, though, and pretty exciting in their own way. I don't think we're in for something like Troy Taylor here.

Safe bet that Mora’s name was leaked by Mora’s team

 

[dgibbons]

Safe bet that Mora’s name was leaked by Mora’s team

Team? More like his agent’s intern.

 

[CougEd]

Curious why you feel that way? I don’t have a feeling either way, although quite confident if Grinch does well, we’d be searching for another coach in 2-3 years again as he’d bolt to a bigger pond in a heartbeat.

What have you seen from Grinch on the recruiting trail that says he can spark interest in a kid, sell him over Oregon State and Cal?

 

[royhobbs2]

Grinch’s agent put his name in for the Missouri and Arkansas jobs which was ridiculous imo. He needs to prove himself as a dc a little longer before taking over as a head coach.

 

[dgibbons]

I agree we're not going to get a splash like Leach was, and there's major potential for a name that is underwhelming to most.

Good news, though:

- I am pretty confident Chun won't just make a lazy hire out of a misapplied desire to hire a "name," but only bringing in a mediocre one. An example of this is Moos' Kent hire in basketball. Just a garbage fit for Pullman coming out of a horrible process. Mora's name being leaked gives me some misgivings, but I'm pretty hopeful Kent won't do this.
- More generally, his Smith hire indicates that he uses a solid process in hiring.
- Some "splashes" are realistic. A former P5 head coach with something like an 84-43 record, as I recall, who was a huge name nationally? Probably not. Some hires like Grinch or Harrell would be a pretty big splash in a different way, though, and pretty exciting in their own way. I don't think we're in for something like Troy Taylor here.

I don’t think Chun was making phone calls or doing anything until last night at the earliest. He didn’t think Leach was leaving until Leach called him yesterday morning. Any names so far is media speculation.

As soon as we hear something like so and so is interviewing or Coach X is a leading candidate that would be from WSU.

 

[froropmkr72]

I don’t think Chun was making phone calls or doing anything until last night at the earliest. He didn’t think Leach was leaving until Leach called him yesterday morning. Any names so far is media speculation.

As soon as we hear something like so and so is interviewing or Coach X is a leading candidate that would be from WSU.

He might of had some agents contact him. "just in case"

 

[chipdouglas]

No matter who comes in, its going to be underwhelming.

I remember before we hired Leach and the rumors swirling and thinking "that would be a get" and being over the moon, because it was a get.

But whats out there right now are either retreads or unproven at the P5 level. We'll be paying below market wage again I suspect, and more than likely get below market results.

There is literally no one out there that moves the needle all that much for me.

I feel like we HAVE to have a splash hire to compensate for deficiencies elsewhere. Crystalball was a snooze of a hire, but they have all the money of Nike and Uncle Phil doing personal meet and greets with recruits during games to keep them relevant. But all that being said, unless we poach Kyle Whittingham (not saying I want him, but it would be splashy) or another P5 proven coach, it just feels like its going to be a let down regardless.

Either way, Go Cougs. Hope Chun can make chicken salad...

I agree on everything but Whittingham as a "splash" hire. Maybe a good hire but wouldn't get me excited the way Leach (or only a dozen other coaches in the country) did/would have.

I can't believe people actually want a "Leach Lite" for a new HC. The Air Raid is a system. Install it and run it like software. You don't need to pay a guy $5MM/yr once it's installed while your defense continues to languish. Best thing we can do is maintain and evolve the Air Raid and pair it up with a respectable defensive mind.

Re-hiring Leach in the form of one of his disciples is like Connor MacGregor doubling down on his grappling game after dropping a boxing match to Mayweather. We're cruising in one category; now we need to master the others.

 

[royhobbs2]

No you need a football coach not software. If it was that simple Leach would be unemployed not making 5 million a year and everyone would simply install bootlegged copies of the air raid. There is quite a bit of skill, knowledge and experience involved.

 

[Coug90]

I agree on everything but Whittingham as a "splash" hire. Maybe a good hire but wouldn't get me excited the way Leach (or only a dozen other coaches in the country) did/would have.

I can't believe people actually want a "Leach Lite" for a new HC. The Air Raid is a system. Install it and run it like software. You don't need to pay a guy $5MM/yr once it's installed while your defense continues to languish. Best thing we can do is maintain and evolve the Air Raid and pair it up with a respectable defensive mind.

Re-hiring Leach in the form of one of his disciples is like Connor MacGregor doubling down on his grappling game after dropping a boxing match to Mayweather. We're cruising in one category; now we need to master the others.

Agreed. I think it makes sense to have some continuity so if you bring in a Choate for example, I’d expect them to utilize the pieces that are here...if they want to gradually get back to their roots so be it, but right now you’ve got a QB room full of Air Raid QBs, Linemen that are built for pass blocking, receivers that understand the route concepts, and not a tight end on the roster. A coach coming in and completely changing the offense would be silly.

defense do whatever the F you desire, we didn’t have any semblance of a defense last year, only way is up.

 

[chipdouglas]

No you need a football coach not software. If it was that simple Leach would be unemployed not making 5 million a year and everyone would simply install bootlegged copies of the air raid. There is quite a bit of skill, knowledge and experience involved.

Nobody is discounting that there is skill/knowledge/experience - that's why you hire a disciple as OC without paying them millions to be HC. But since the call on the field is the QB's, and we just spent the last couple days reading about team-meetings-cum-history-symposia, and we established that WSU was the least flexible team in the PAC this year week-to-week on situational run/pass mix, and Leach was a glorified OC anyway, consider me not a believer that the team or the Air Raid falls apart with a high 6/low 7 figure AR disciple coordinator.

 

[triscuit one]

We were able to get the "splashy" hire in Leach because he had so much baggage no one else wanted him at the time. There is another former Big 12 coach with a ton of baggage coaching high school ball in Texas, but I his baggage is even to much for us.

 

[royhobbs2]

just to clarify. You want an air raid offense run by a leach air raid disciple but not asa head coach ? Is that right ?