Minnesota school kicked out of conference

[Fab5Coug]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...as-booted-miac-conference-winning/1203025001/

Interesting story. Apparently they were voted out of their conference for being too dominant. Initial reaction is, "suck it up schools", "just get better and beat them". On the other hand, their enrollment is twice that of other schools and they had been drubbing everyone in football up until last season.

Seems like a school like that would want to move up a division to challenge themselves and probably generate more revenue.

 

[Glad Cougar]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...as-booted-miac-conference-winning/1203025001/

Interesting story. Apparently they were voted out of their conference for being too dominant. Initial reaction is, "suck it up schools", "just get better and beat them". On the other hand, their enrollment is twice that of other schools and they had been drubbing everyone in football up until last season.

Seems like a school like that would want to move up a division to challenge themselves and probably generate more revenue.

Yes, it sounds like St. Thomas should move up to D-2 and join the Northern Sun Conference, which has a number of Minnesota schools already (St. Cloud, Concordia-St. Paul, Winona State, Minnesota State, etc.) Their enrollment is more in line with that conference as well. I wonder if the disparity exists for women's sports as well. That might be one of the reasons they don't want to move up a notch.

I also wonder if someday North Dakota State might be "encouraged" to move up to FBS status. I could see them join the Big-12 and fare pretty well as is....at least in football.

Glad Cougar

 

[BiggsCoug]

I dont think it has anything to do with enrollment size. Youre only gonna have so many kids on the football roster. Maybe you drum up some more interest because its a bigger school but prob not that much more.

I think it has more to do with the $1.1M they spend on football per year. They are outpacing the other programs and prob landing the lions share of talent because their school backs up their words with cash.

If theyre spending that much on football, I would be interested to see their academic requirements and financial aid packages.

 

[Fab5Coug]

I dont think it has anything to do with enrollment size. Youre only gonna have so many kids on the football roster. Maybe you drum up some more interest because its a bigger school but prob not that much more.

I think it has more to do with the $1.1M they spend on football per year. They are outpacing the other programs and prob landing the lions share of talent because their school backs up their words with cash.

If theyre spending that much on football, I would be interested to see their academic requirements and financial aid packages.

Biggs, you probably know this better than anyone here, but what are the scholarship rules at that level? Do they have 85 scholarships to give?

 

[BiggsCoug]

Biggs, you probably know this better than anyone here, but what are the scholarship rules at that level? Do they have 85 scholarships to give?

There are none. No athletic scholarships at all, ever. They could give institutional aid of some kind and wrap it up with a bs title.... but youre not gonna exceed the kids EFC unless there is academic money involved. Even then it would be a pell grant that the kid got to keep.

D3 football is about two things... gpa and $$$. The lower the gpa allowed, the wider you can cast your net. The more institutional aid given, the closer you get to a families EFC (expected family contribution.)

If there were a school in the NW tomorrow that allowed 2.0 gpa, didnt need a test score and matched EFC’s.... In 3 seasons they would be soooo far ahead of Whitworth, Linfield, UPS, Willamette, PLU, etc that those schools would boot them. That school would be talking to kids that no one else could even bring up in a conversation with their admissions dean AND then package all the blue collar kids so aggressively the rest of the league would be playing high school backups. They would have a strange hold on literally all the small college talent. Which is my guess as to what is happening in Minnesota.

There are some conferences in d3 that are state schools. It would be like CWU or WWU being a d3 school.. In order to level the playing field those leagues have roster limits of 100 kids. It spreads the talent out but even then Whitewater pounds teams.

 

[BiggsCoug]

If it were my team that got bounced, the gloves are off. Until my team leaves the conference we are gonna pound you. I wouldnt care what the score was. Every recruit in the state is gonna know that if they go to another school theyre going to a jv team.

 

[Fab5Coug]

If it were my team that got bounced, the gloves are off. Until my team leaves the conference we are gonna pound you. I wouldnt care what the score was. Every recruit in the state is gonna know that if they go to another school theyre going to a jv team.

Sounds like that is what they were doing anyway. They were beating teams 90-0 a couple years ago.

I'd be real curious to learn more about this program and how they got THAT good.

It's not just football either. There was something about how they've won something like 58 conference titles in the last decade, whereas no one else has won more than 12.

 

[FnuLnu]

Sounds like that is what they were doing anyway. They were beating teams 90-0 a couple years ago.

I'd be real curious to learn more about this program and how they got THAT good.

It's not just football either. There was something about how they've won something like 58 conference titles in the last decade, whereas no one else has won more than 12.

Archbishop Murphy effect.

Wonder how long WESCO puts up with them.

KINGCO already blackballed Eastside Catholic (pretty poor fit with Metro geograhically)

 

[BiggsCoug]

Sounds like that is what they were doing anyway. They were beating teams 90-0 a couple years ago.

I'd be real curious to learn more about this program and how they got THAT good.

It's not just football either. There was something about how they've won something like 58 conference titles in the last decade, whereas no one else has won more than 12.

The biggest diff is they wanna be a national contender and fund for it. The other schools are/were just fine having a team and fund nothing. It just creates a gap soooo wide between the schools that it is almost insurmountable. If they beat a team 90-0 a couple years ago, itll be 190-0 now.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

The purpose of having a league is not to have one big team and a bunch of midgets. I'm not surprised that the league divorced them. If they can find a league willing to let them in, more power to them. If not, they can step up in funding and move up a level. No shame or guilt on the league for booting them.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The purpose of having a league is not to have one big team and a bunch of midgets. I'm not surprised that the league divorced them. If they can find a league willing to let them in, more power to them. If not, they can step up in funding and move up a level. No shame or guilt on the league for booting them.

The shame is not willing to be better. Any school in that league could CHOOSE to push their chips in and play ball. In fact, the more schools that did would make the league more competitive.

If you dont want a school in your league because of poor academics, fine. If you dont want a school in your league because they hand out more $$$, fine. If you dont want a school in your league because they cast a spotlight on how bad you are and your willfulness in being bad, shame on you.

 

[kayak15]

Cannot really blame that conference. If the schedule looks like a series of Possum Bowls then send them on their way to find more appropriate opponents.

 

[PeteTheChop]

The purpose of having a league is not to have one big team and a bunch of midgets.

Pac-12 with the Cougs and 11 midgets sounds pretty enticing

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The scenario above has been going on in Nevada for over a decade now at the high school level. Bishop Gorman has been a dominant force in football and has won 10 straight state championships (and 11 of the past 12). A billionaire backs the team financially and they recruit not only in Clark County but also has the occasional son of an NFL player on their roster. In 2012, there was serious discussion of banning them from the playoffs but the state athletic association decided that they couldn't win the legal fight.

To a lesser degree, the same type of scenario started to happen where I live. A school called Bishop Carroll had started to become more dominant than many felt was fair with 5 championship appearances in an 8 year period (winning three of them). It's definitely not any fun when you have a private school that doesn't face the geographic restrictions of a public school crushing the competition. Frankly, it's not any fun for anyone toiling away in their smaller conference knowing that they don't even have a shot at the tiny brass ring.

 

[Loyal Coug]

The scenario above has been going on in Nevada for over a decade now at the high school level. Bishop Gorman has been a dominant force in football and has won 10 straight state championships (and 11 of the past 12). A billionaire backs the team financially and they recruit not only in Clark County but also has the occasional son of an NFL player on their roster. In 2012, there was serious discussion of banning them from the playoffs but the state athletic association decided that they couldn't win the legal fight.

To a lesser degree, the same type of scenario started to happen where I live. A school called Bishop Carroll had started to become more dominant than many felt was fair with 5 championship appearances in an 8 year period (winning three of them). It's definitely not any fun when you have a private school that doesn't face the geographic restrictions of a public school crushing the competition. Frankly, it's not any fun for anyone toiling away in their smaller conference knowing that they don't even have a shot at the tiny brass ring.

I had a few minutes and looked Bishop Gorman up. I see they got beat by Mater Dei 42-0, and lost to another California school as well. I then saw that they have 10 varsity coaches! What? in HS? Then I looked up Mater Dei and they have 13! When I was in HS I think we had 3 at the varsity level.

 

[95coug]

The scenario above has been going on in Nevada for over a decade now at the high school level. Bishop Gorman has been a dominant force in football and has won 10 straight state championships (and 11 of the past 12). A billionaire backs the team financially and they recruit not only in Clark County but also has the occasional son of an NFL player on their roster. In 2012, there was serious discussion of banning them from the playoffs but the state athletic association decided that they couldn't win the legal fight.

To a lesser degree, the same type of scenario started to happen where I live. A school called Bishop Carroll had started to become more dominant than many felt was fair with 5 championship appearances in an 8 year period (winning three of them). It's definitely not any fun when you have a private school that doesn't face the geographic restrictions of a public school crushing the competition. Frankly, it's not any fun for anyone toiling away in their smaller conference knowing that they don't even have a shot at the tiny brass ring.

I saw that when I was in high school, most glaringly in baseball. DeSales HS in Walla Walla was a juggernaut. There was no question they were going to win the league, the question was by how many games, and how many of their games would go past 5 innings. They were in the state tournament every year from 1986-2015, and won the state title 19 times in that span. Between 1991 and 2006, they did not finish lower than 3rd in state and won 14 titles. During their baseball run, they also played 10 title games in football (winning 5).

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I saw that when I was in high school, most glaringly in baseball. DeSales HS in Walla Walla was a juggernaut. There was no question they were going to win the league, the question was by how many games, and how many of their games would go past 5 innings. They were in the state tournament every year from 1986-2015, and won the state title 19 times in that span. Between 1991 and 2006, they did not finish lower than 3rd in state and won 14 titles. During their baseball run, they also played 10 title games in football (winning 5).

One of my friends in college played football at DeSales in the mid 80's. He was way too proud of his appearance in one of the championship games.

 

[kougkurt]

I saw that when I was in high school, most glaringly in baseball. DeSales HS in Walla Walla was a juggernaut. There was no question they were going to win the league, the question was by how many games, and how many of their games would go past 5 innings. They were in the state tournament every year from 1986-2015, and won the state title 19 times in that span. Between 1991 and 2006, they did not finish lower than 3rd in state and won 14 titles. During their baseball run, they also played 10 title games in football (winning 5).

Not uncommon for a B school to dominate a particular sport

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Every suburban high school in greater LA has something like 10 assistant coaches if you include the strength and conditioning folks.

 

[mikalalas]

Not just that. But anywhere where football is popular, each HS football team is going to have at least 8 coaches.

1. Head Coach

2. Assistant Head Coach who either also a offensive or defensive coordinator

3. If head coach defensive, a offensive coordinator. If HC is offensive, then defense coordinator. The Coordinator is Assist Head Coach

4. OL coach, either OL or DL coach doubles as strength, conditioning coach

5. WR coach. Either of the WR coach, RB coach, LB coach, Secondary DB coach, one of them doubles as Special Teams coach

6. RB coach

7. QB coach. Usually doubles as Offensive coordinator, and Assistant Head Coach

8. DL coach. Also sometimes doubles as strength conditioning coach, if not S&C coach, then sometimes is Defensive coordinator, Assistant Head Coach

9. Linebacker coach. If not Special Teams coach, sometimes Defensive Coordinator, and Assistant Head Coach

10. Secondary, DB coach, sometimes Special Teams, sometimes Defensive Coordinator, if defensive coordinator, usually NOT Assistant Head Coach

Most Highschools have at least 7,8 coaches.

Highschool football is becoming like College football number of coaches wise, except in the most unpopular, poorest areas, where highechool football not as popular, an or poor dont have budget for 7, 8 coaches.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Not just that. But anywhere where football is popular, each HS football team is going to have at least 8 coaches.

1. Head Coach

2. Assistant Head Coach who either also a offensive or defensive coordinator

3. If head coach defensive, a offensive coordinator. If HC is offensive, then defense coordinator. The Coordinator is Assist Head Coach

4. OL coach, either OL or DL coach doubles as strength, conditioning coach

5. WR coach. Either of the WR coach, RB coach, LB coach, Secondary DB coach, one of them doubles as Special Teams coach

6. RB coach

7. QB coach. Usually doubles as Offensive coordinator, and Assistant Head Coach

8. DL coach. Also sometimes doubles as strength conditioning coach, if not S&C coach, then sometimes is Defensive coordinator, Assistant Head Coach

9. Linebacker coach. If not Special Teams coach, sometimes Defensive Coordinator, and Assistant Head Coach

10. Secondary, DB coach, sometimes Special Teams, sometimes Defensive Coordinator, if defensive coordinator, usually NOT Assistant Head Coach

Most Highschools have at least 7,8 coaches.

Highschool football is becoming like College football number of coaches wise, except in the most unpopular, poorest areas, where highechool football not as popular, an or poor dont have budget for 7, 8 coaches.

This is.....specific.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

This is.....specific.

Perhaps overly specific, but not far off. This is far from the only possible distribution of duties, but it is a credible guess and I'm sure some programs are set up that way. A lot of the details depend upon the capabilities of the various staff folks, of course, so it varies from program to program. But this is not far off what I'd expect to see here in SoCal.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

This is.....specific.

By "specific".......I think you misspelled "rubbish". I appreciate that he's trying to put some thought into it, but sometimes...the dude just needs to slow his roll. Every high school coach undoubtedly has their own focus and different funding available. The biggest public high school in Kansas has 8 coaches listed: HC, OC, Secondary, OLx2, DL, TE, and WR. The high school where my son played only has 5 coaches listed. Kansas is obviously not as football focused as Texas of course.

The private Catholic school (Bishop Carroll) that I mentioned earlier? They have 15 coaches. There's no point in trying to quantify high school coaches. Too freakin' random.