Missiles into Russia

[UberCougars]

So, a sitting President deemed too frail to run for reelection by his own party is supposedly competent enuff to launch missiles into Russia after losing the election.

Still wanna talk about kids playing games?

 

[Coug90]

So, a sitting President deemed too frail to run for reelection by his own party is supposedly competent enuff to launch missiles into Russia after losing the election.

Still wanna talk about kids playing games?

As frail as he may be he still has advisors who are competent in their fields of expertise.

Wait till the toddler in chief and his traveling clown show of yes men and women get the keys again. It’s going to get wild.

 

[Observer11]

As frail as he may be he still has advisors who are competent in their fields of expertise.

Wait till the toddler in chief and his traveling clown show of yes men and women get the keys again. It’s going to get wild.

Competent as war mongering chickenhawk pawns of the military industrial complex.

They couldn't wait 60 days.

"Going to get wild'. Does that make you happy?

 

[UberCougars]

waiting is over, it would seem.

Action phase appears to have entered the chat.

Putin’s serve.

I’m lucky though. I’m old enuff to have been trained by the government how to survive a nuclear strike while in elementary school, so I’m safe.

 

[kougkurt]

A desperate act by a departing administration. No way they do this if the chick won.

 

[UberCougars]

As frail as he may be he still has advisors who are competent in their fields of expertise.

Wait till the toddler in chief and his traveling clown show of yes men and women get the keys again. It’s going to get wild.

 

[Coug90]

waiting is over, it would seem.

Action phase appears to have entered the chat.

Putin’s serve.

I’m lucky though. I’m old enuff to have been trained by the government how to survive a nuclear strike while in elementary school, so I’m safe.

Duck and cover

 

[Coug90]

Competent as war mongering chickenhawk pawns of the military industrial complex.

They couldn't wait 60 days.

"Going to get wild'. Does that make you happy?

No. I didn’t vote for Wild though, I voted for boring.

 

[Observer11]

No. I didn’t vote for Wild though, I voted for boring.

America voted for peace.

 

[Coug90]

View embedded media

I’m not sure what you’re referencing here. I’m not sure what the “right” move is with Russia at this point. I’ll say, it’s quite the dilemma when you’ve got an ally who’s been invaded by Russia and currently at war with them while an incoming US administration is led by a Russian asset. That said it’s not surprising to see some unorthodox moves at this point. I’d imagine when Trump takes office, he’ll pull back and let Putin resume his sweep of Eastern Europe which he’s been patiently waiting on Trumps return for. I could be wrong but we can revisit in a few years and see how things are going over there. 🤝

 

[Observer11]

I’m not sure what you’re referencing here. I’m not sure what the “right” move is with Russia at this point. I’ll say, it’s quite the dilemma when you’ve got an ally who’s been invaded by Russia and currently at war with them while an incoming US administration is led by a Russian asset. That said it’s not surprising to see some unorthodox moves at this point. I’d imagine when Trump takes office, he’ll pull back and let Putin resume his sweep of Eastern Europe which he’s been patiently waiting on Trumps return for. I could be wrong but we can revisit in a few years and see how things are going over there. 🤝

Putin did nothing during Trumps first term.

He invaded Crimea during Obama. He invaded Ukraine during Biden. He invaded Georgia during Obama

Please to be identifying Putin’s sweeping through Europe during a Trump presidency.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Putin did nothing during Trumps first term.

He invaded Crimea during Obama. He invaded Ukraine during Biden. He invaded Georgia during Obama

Please to be identifying Putin’s sweeping through Europe during a Trump presidency.

It's typical American arrogance to assume that Putin's actions are driven solely by the President of the USA. Russia didn't rush into Ukraine as soon as Trump left, so it's a bit myopic to say that it wouldn't have happened if Trump had been re-elected in 2020. Nobody knows what will happen once Trump is in, but it is safe to say that he will cut off funding to Ukraine and that is going to force Ukraine to try to find a peaceful diplomatic solution that includes Russia gaining new territory.

Now, history suggests that "peaceful diplomatic solutions" where the aggressor had a net gain usually leads to that aggressor being more aggressive in the future. We'll see how things actually play out. The one thing that I can say with confidence is that the world is not a better place when Russia is feeling that it's ok to act aggressively.

I know that the MAGA world is infatuated with Trump and suffers from their own version of TDS, but Ronald Reagan is tossing and turning in his grave as a result of the lack of world leadership displayed by Trump in the past and likely in the future. Isolationism didn't work in the 1930's and it will not work out well for us today.

 

[Coug90]

Putin did nothing during Trumps first term.

He invaded Crimea during Obama. He invaded Ukraine during Biden. He invaded Georgia during Obama

Please to be identifying Putin’s sweeping through Europe during a Trump presidency.

Fair enough. Like I said we can revisit in a few years and see how things are going.

 

[UberCougars]

Fair enough. Like I said we can revisit in a few years and see how things are going.

Maybe

 

[CougEd]

America voted for peace.

No they didn't they voted for 3 dollar eggs. You dont have peace with 800 nukes pointed at you. And they voted for peace in the 1920's and being isolationist worked out well.

 

[dgibbons]

It's typical American arrogance to assume that Putin's actions are driven solely by the President of the USA. Russia didn't rush into Ukraine as soon as Trump left, so it's a bit myopic to say that it wouldn't have happened if Trump had been re-elected in 2020. Nobody knows what will happen once Trump is in, but it is safe to say that he will cut off funding to Ukraine and that is going to force Ukraine to try to find a peaceful diplomatic solution that includes Russia gaining new territory.

Now, history suggests that "peaceful diplomatic solutions" where the aggressor had a net gain usually leads to that aggressor being more aggressive in the future. We'll see how things actually play out. The one thing that I can say with confidence is that the world is not a better place when Russia is feeling that it's ok to act aggressively.

I know that the MAGA world is infatuated with Trump and suffers from their own version of TDS, but Ronald Reagan is tossing and turning in his grave as a result of the lack of world leadership displayed by Trump in the past and likely in the future. Isolationism didn't work in the 1930's and it will not work out well for us today.

Acting as the world's police force hasn't exactly been awesome. In case you missed it the defense budget is not keeping pace with inflation, the military cannot hit its recruitment numbers, and procurement has been awful.

The average age of a Ukrainian solider is 43. So, math tells us that for every 20 year old there is a 60 year old. If there is any coherent policy from Biden on Ukraine, it appears to be to provide enough aid for Ukraine not to lose, but not enough aid to win. Good for Raytheon shareholders, but not so good if you're a Ukrainian. Ukraine will run out of people and bullets before Russia does. So, what is your solution? Seems like three possibilities to me: (1) NATO boots on the ground and a shooting war with Russia; (2) the status quo of providing aid and Ukraine being slowly ground down and hoping for the possibility that Putin dies or gets ousted before Ukraine collapses and the new guy is more dove-ish which is a significant assumption; or (3) force a peace deal.

As long as you’re under 60, you’re eligible for the Ukraine International Legion.

 

[dgibbons]

No they didn't they vited for 3 dollar eggs. You dont have peace with 800 nukes pointed at you. And they voted for peace in the 1920's and being isolationist worked out well.

Russia has about 5000 nukes. China has about 500. Not sure about North Korea. Ball park, I'd say every American has a couple thousand pointed at us.

 

[Observer11]

No they didn't they vited for 3 dollar eggs. You dont have peace with 800 nukes pointed at you. And they voted for peace in the 1920's and being isolationist worked out well.

Is that because Trump is literally Hitler or literally Hoover this week?

 

[longtimecoug]

waiting is over, it would seem.

Action phase appears to have entered the chat.

Putin’s serve.

I’m lucky though. I’m old enuff to have been trained by the government how to survive a nuclear strike while in elementary school, so I’m safe.

Are you still limber enough to get under your desk?

 

[Coug90]

Russia has about 5000 nukes. China has about 500. Not sure about North Korea. Ball park, I'd say every American has a couple thousand pointed at us.

I don’t think we will ever not have several thousand nukes pointed at us.

That said, Flats point is really the only one to consider regarding strategy. Do we have a hard line with dictators and despots or do we kiss their asses and hope for the best. I’m not saying one is definitively going to work better than the other but you should know what you voted for…I know I do.

 

[dgibbons]

I don’t think we will ever not have several thousand nukes pointed at us.

That said, Flats point is really the only one to consider regarding strategy. Do we have a hard line with dictators and despots or do we kiss their asses and hope for the best. I’m not saying one is definitively going to work better than the other but you should know what you voted for…I know I do.

You voted for an empty vessel that would have been filled by the D establishment and defense industrial complex, and a few hundred thousand more dead Ukrainians. Or maybe war with Iran.

 

[UberCougars]

Are you still limber enough to get under your desk?

Yes.

 

[UberCougars]

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Acting as the world's police force hasn't exactly been awesome. In case you missed it the defense budget is not keeping pace with inflation, the military cannot hit its recruitment numbers, and procurement has been awful.

The average age of a Ukrainian solider is 43. So, math tells us that for every 20 year old there is a 60 year old. If there is any coherent policy from Biden on Ukraine, it appears to be to provide enough aid for Ukraine not to lose, but not enough aid to win. Good for Raytheon shareholders, but not so good if you're a Ukrainian. Ukraine will run out of people and bullets before Russia does. So, what is your solution? Seems like three possibilities to me: (1) NATO boots on the ground and a shooting war with Russia; (2) the status quo of providing aid and Ukraine being slowly ground down and hoping for the possibility that Putin dies or gets ousted before Ukraine collapses and the new guy is more dove-ish which is a significant assumption; or (3) force a peace deal.

As long as you’re under 60, you’re eligible for the Ukraine International Legion.

FWIW, even though I think that Trump is a shit stain on our democracy, he is also just crazy enough and radical enough to have very good ideas on some topics. He was absolutely right to put NATO on notice that they have a responsibility to hold up their end of the bargain. His problem is that because he does have a weird thing for Putin, he weakens the alliance with his rhetoric rather than strengthening it.

NATO should be putting more money in (and they have been getting better) and its not our job to save everyone. That said, we spend over $800 billion on defense each year. We have spent roughly $60 billion this year in aid to Ukraine. It's important to note that a large portion of that aid is in used equipment that we were no longer going to be using anyway. In my world view, spending 5-10% of our annual budget weakening an adversary is some of the best money we can spend. My only critique of Biden is that we should give Ukraine the weapons and aid and tell them to make the best use of it, not put artificial restraints on the aid that limit their effectiveness. Half-assing your way through a war is the best way to replicate a Vietnam or Afghanistan. The reason that Israel is so effective is that they fight to win....not to participate.

History is going to look back at the GOP and the MAGA movement and not judge it kindly. I'm no Biden or Kamala fan, but I'd also rather be on the right side of history.

 

[Stretch 74]

As frail as he may be he still has advisors who are competent in their fields of expertise.

Wait till the toddler in chief and his traveling clown show of yes men and women get the keys again. It’s going to get wild.

That statement is up for some serious, serious debate. In every department, in every subject.

But relative to the subject at hand, the Russia/Ukraine war, those competent, expert advisors that you claim exist have so far managed to do almost everything wrong in this war. They took exactly 0 (ZERO!) actions to defer Russia's incursion, then have dithered and fiddled with every decision of support to Ukraine, meaning that they have not enabled Ukraine to win, only allowed them to hang on for a while to avoid a quick and decisive loss. And now those brilliant genius advisors have managed to get 3 of our 4 biggest enemies to actually team up against our "ally" Ukraine. China is providing armaments/weapons to Russia and now North Korea is providing soldiers to assist Russia in fighting the war.

They have also managed to do everything wrong in the Gaza/Israel conflict also, but that is a subject for another thread.

Competent advisors? What a laugh that is!

 

[Stretch 74]

waiting is over, it would seem.

Action phase appears to have entered the chat.

Putin’s serve.

I’m lucky though. I’m old enuff to have been trained by the government how to survive a nuclear strike while in elementary school, so I’m safe.

I had that training also, long, long ago. Ours was slightly different. We had glass walls all along one side of the classroom, and there were long coat racks lining the hallway outside the classroom. Thus, our instructions were to get into the hallway, kneel and curl up against the wall with the coats over our heads.

Pretty sure that gave us total protection from the giant atomic blast that we were expecting. Ha!

 

[Stretch 74]

View embedded media

Any poll that has Harris, Walz, Buttigeig, and AOC in the top 6 candidates for president is simply provided for comic relief! This poll is farther off than the Des Moines Register poll that was off by 17 points, showing Harris winning Iowa by 3 points.

 

[Stretch 74]

No they didn't they vited for 3 dollar eggs. You dont have peace with 800 nukes pointed at you. And they voted for peace in the 1920's and being isolationist worked out well.

Actually, we DO have peace with 800 nukes pointed at us. We cease to have peace the moment that those 800 nukes are launched.

 

[CougEd]

Actually, we DO have peace with 800 nukes pointed at us. We cease to have peace the moment that those 800 nukes are launched.

Correct....and which leader in the last 20 years has actually threatened to use them....? That's right, the guy who Trump said his land grab was really smart.

 

[Coug90]

That statement is up for some serious, serious debate. In every department, in every subject.

But relative to the subject at hand, the Russia/Ukraine war, those competent, expert advisors that you claim exist have so far managed to do almost everything wrong in this war. They took exactly 0 (ZERO!) actions to defer Russia's incursion, then have dithered and fiddled with every decision of support to Ukraine, meaning that they have not enabled Ukraine to win, only allowed them to hang on for a while to avoid a quick and decisive loss. And now those brilliant genius advisors have managed to get 3 of our 4 biggest enemies to actually team up against our "ally" Ukraine. China is providing armaments/weapons to Russia and now North Korea is providing soldiers to assist Russia in fighting the war.

They have also managed to do everything wrong in the Gaza/Israel conflict also, but that is a subject for another thread.

Competent advisors? What a laugh that is!

You’re right, we’re better off with Jarod and Ivanka paving the way for our foreign policy.

And Trump cowering like a beaten down dog to Putin in front of the world. What an incredible show of strength!

 

[UberCougars]

Imagine if Russia’s loaded up Cuba with long range state of the art missiles then started launching them at cities in the US.

What would we do? What should we do?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Imagine if Russia’s loaded up Cuba with long range state of the art missiles then started launching them at cities in the US.

What would we do? What should we do?

If we had troops on the ground in Cuba and trying to take over their country....that question would be relevant. As it is....it's a question without a point.

A more relevant comparison would be if we had told the British in 1940 that they could only use military aid from the US against the Nazis in ways that wouldn't hurt the Nazi's feelings.

 

[Stretch 74]

Correct....and which leader in the last 20 years has actually threatened to use them....? That's right, the guy who Trump said his land grab was really smart.

Just because he said it was a smart move by Putin doesn't mean that he approves of what he did. Just because Putin is a bad guy does NOT mean he is stupid. But keep on taking Trump statements out of context, it is what you do best.

From WSJ article:
Former President Donald Trump called Russian President Vladimir Putin smart and criticized the U.S. response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
“I mean, he’s taking over a country for $2 worth of sanctions. I’d say that’s pretty smart,” Mr. Trump said during a fundraiser at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida on Wednesday night, according to a recording of the event posted online, contending that Mr. Putin wouldn’t have invaded if he were still president.
In a telephone interview with Fox News late Wednesday night, as Russia launched its invasion, Mr. Trump called the unfolding events a “very sad thing for the world and the country.” He said Mr. Biden hadn't done enough to dissuade Mr. Putin from invading.
“He was going to be satisfied with a piece and now he sees the weakness and the incompetence and the stupidity of this administration,” Mr. Trump said on Fox News on Wednesday night.
It is the second time Mr. Trump called Mr. Putin smart in recent days. He made similar comments during a radio interview earlier this week.

 

[Stretch 74]

You’re right, we’re better off with Jarod and Ivanka paving the way for our foreign policy.

And Trump cowering like a beaten down dog to Putin in front of the world. What an incredible show of strength!

Well, that first sentence appears to be absolutely true. After all, it was Jarod that lead the effort that produced the Abraham Accords. Biden's inept crew has lead to Iran unleashing their allied terrorist groups against Israel. Quite a difference, huh?

Never forget the wisdom of cautioning words from Obama and Bob Gates- "Never underestimate the ability of Joe to **** things up" and "Joe Biden has been wrong on every major foreign policy issue since he came to Washington".

 

[UberCougars]

If we had troops on the ground in Cuba and trying to take over their country....that question would be relevant. As it is....it's a question without a point.

A more relevant comparison would be if we had told the British in 1940 that they could only use military aid from the US against the Nazis in ways that wouldn't hurt the Nazi's feelings.

Must be nice to pretend all the time, yes?

 

[CougEd]

Imagine if Russia’s loaded up Cuba with long range state of the art missiles then started launching them at cities in the US.

What would we do? What should we do?

Mutual destruction.

 

[Coug90]

Well, that first sentence appears to be absolutely true. After all, it was Jarod that lead the effort that produced the Abraham Accords. Biden's inept crew has lead to Iran unleashing their allied terrorist groups against Israel. Quite a difference, huh?

Never forget the wisdom of cautioning words from Obama and Bob Gates- "Never underestimate the ability of Joe to **** things up" and "Joe Biden has been wrong on every major foreign policy issue since he came to Washington".

“Kim Jong Un and me send each other beautiful love letters”

“Putin very strongly denied his involvement. I believe Putin over out own intelligence”.

Paraphrasing both, but point is you are not a serious person. Trump is the biggest disaster for national security and foreign policy since….well, Trump.

 

[Stretch 74]

“Kim Jong Un and me send each other beautiful love letters”

“Putin very strongly denied his involvement. I believe Putin over out own intelligence”.

Paraphrasing both, but point is you are not a serious person. Trump is the biggest disaster for national security and foreign policy since….well, Trump.

Well, after a very extensive investigation, they found no evidence that Trump colluded with Russia. Investigations also determined Russia's minor social media meddling had zero effect on the 2016 election, just like their meddling in elections dating back at least to 1960 had zero effect on those elections.

Meanwhile, Trump knew that the US intelligence agencies had spied on him illegally and had worked to sabotage him. So why again would he believe them?

 

[Coug90]

Well, after a very extensive investigation, they found no evidence that Trump colluded with Russia. Investigations also determined Russia's minor social media meddling had zero effect on the 2016 election, just like their meddling in elections dating back at least to 1960 had zero effect on those elections.

Meanwhile, Trump knew that the US intelligence agencies had spied on him illegally and had worked to sabotage him. So why again would he believe them?

lol. The investigation got how many people busted and convicted? But yeah Trump is squeaky clean! 😂

You are not a serious person.

 

[mikalalas]

So, a sitting President deemed too frail to run for reelection by his own party is supposedly competent enuff to launch missiles into Russia after losing the election.

Still wanna talk about kids playing games?

Not Biden, US that would launch Missiles into Russia. Biden, USA, etc, said that UKRAINE could, can fire missiles into Russia if it wants too. Previously Biden, USA, Nato, UN, etc, forbade UKRAINE from doing that, as part of the help UKRAINE was getting from USA, other countries, Nato, etc.

If Ukraine fires non nuclear, non Nuke, non ballistic missiles, and fires conventional cruise missiles into Russia. It probably would be effective against Russian militiary, and probably would be ok with rest of world, since RUSSIA STARTED IT, and since Ukraine would be defending themselves, finishing it.

Also Russia wouldn't fire Tactile Nuke Missiles at Ukraine, because Russia knows that if they do that, that USA, Nato, UN, will kick Russia out of UN, and off the UN security council, and even if China, Russia, etc, were to vote no to that, the UN, USA, and rest of UN security council, would ignore the UN security council rules, votes, and would cast Russia, China both off the UN security Council, and out of UN, and would sanction, embargo, freeze all Russian, Chinese assets, in the world banking system, freeze cut off all their oil, etc.

Basically if Ukraine starts firing conventional cruise like, non Nuke missiles into Russia, that Russia's militiary is so far gone, destroyed in this war by Ukraine so far, that Russia will just have to take it in the ass, and either surrender, an or come to the bargaining, peace, treaty, talks, etc, table, and end the hostilities, war against Ukraine.

Basically Ukraine will win if it fires non Nuke missiles at Russia militiary targets in Russia, and around, in Ukraine, etc.

It's actually a good idea, and about time the USA. Nato, UN, world, etc, stop making Ukraine fight the war against Russia with 1 arm tied behind their back, and actually really start helping Ukraine, and start letting Ukraine to really start taking the war to Russia, and really start letting Ukraine really start to fight this war, etc.