Perhaps you can explain this is some detail. What enviroment, studying, playing, practicing or ???
What issue have the coaches created??
Mo to the portal
- Thread starter 7ICoug
- Start date
What issue have the coaches created??
I'm no expert on the NIL's Wild Wild West approach right now, but whatever rules the NCAA may have put together about contact prior to a player entering the portal are not being enforced. In essence, the NCAA is simply avoiding any involvement in NIL/Portal activities. So I have little doubt Efe & Gueye were contacted (or their agents were contacted) prior to them officially entering the portal.
I could be wrong, but I don't really think there's some kind of hushed up disconnect between players and the coaching staff at WSU. Perhaps with a player or two, but not anything that would explain the loss of so many key players. If they do land Diongue, that will be a good sign that the coaches are still viable.
Glad Cougar
I could be wrong, but I don't really think there's some kind of hushed up disconnect between players and the coaching staff at WSU. Perhaps with a player or two, but not anything that would explain the loss of so many key players. If they do land Diongue, that will be a good sign that the coaches are still viable.
Glad Cougar
not buying it, this is all about money, if you have evidence to the contrary provide it
Why would Efe or Mo be getting huge NIL money? They don’t have stats or the name recognition imo. I get schools recruiting them as proven D1 players but NIL money I don’t understand, unless it has just become a recruiting tool for schools with big donors.
I’m a huge college sports fan as I’m sure everybody on this board is but if this continues I think college athletics might need to go away and let these guys go straight to a minor league system
I’m a huge college sports fan as I’m sure everybody on this board is but if this continues I think college athletics might need to go away and let these guys go straight to a minor league system
That's lowball. Like, just enough money to field a winning team. Maybe.
I imagine we'll see the big boys with 1-2mil deals for most of their starting 5, like we're starting to see in football.
I just caught wind of both Efe and Gueye entering the portal - I'm sickened. I'm ready for WSU to shut it all down, and hopefully the other 100+ schools who can't afford multi-million dollar NIL deals for their "amateur" players will follow suit, then ESPN execs and Mark Emmert can sit in a room playing soggy biscuit watching the same 20 teams play each other.
because schools with cash to burn don't gaf. Just like schools like Bama et al stuffing their roster with kids they know won't play, but a) the other guy doesn't get to have them and b) maybe they play and don't suck, so the risk/ reward is worth it.
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Your right about the part of NIL being a recruiting tool of schools with big donors that can afford to overpay what recruits are worth.
What you are not getting is this:
College is becoming more like the NBA.
In the NBA draft, POTENTIAL, NBA ATHLETICISM, etc, is ALMOST EVERYTHING.
Don't believe me?
Here's proof.
There's been plenty of NBA Lottery picks, where going by your standards Jourdand, they absolutely shouldn't have received a lottery pick, let alone even being drafted period.
I forget, forgot the names of some, most of these players, but the was a EXTREMELY NBA ATHLETIC 7 footer with Shetty, CRAP stats that went 2nd pic in the draft as a freshman, etc. He was drafted by Chicago, I think(might be wrong, might be some other team).
He didn't pan out, was a bust.
Jrue Holiday who only scored about 7.5 to 8 to 8.5 ppg, was a freshman, was extremely NBA athleticism, PG, was drafted at end of Lottery.
He panned out, was not a bust.
Even UCLA's Cameron Dollar who only averaged about 3 ppg, and 4,5,6 assist per game, was almost drafted as last pick of 2nd round, because of his athleticism, quickness alone. Cameron Dollar played overseas a little tiny bit, before becoming a coach, going into coaching.
So NBA, College, etc, are BIG on POTENTIAL, NBA level athleticism. They don't care as much if the player is RAW, still a PROJECT, needs coaching, development, but has unlimited potential, upside, etc, as they think they can turn that player into the next Lebron James, Jordan, superstar, etc.
Now how does that apply to, affect Efe, Gueye?
Efe, Gueye are ultimate extremely NBA freakish Athleticism, EXPLOSIVENESS, etc. They have almost unlimited upside, potential.
ARE THEY EXTREMELY RAW? Yes, are they semi borderline NBA level semi projects? Yes.
Efe is like, comparable to Shawn Kemp(I know your point about Kemp's ppg being higher, but sans that they are similar comparisons, style, athleticism, height, build, frame, etc)
Efe did a POSTERIZE DRIVE DUNK OVER,ON A SEMI TOP TOURNAMENT LEVEL PLAYER IN THE NIT(Almost exactly like Shawn Kemp's drive and dunk over,on, posterization of David Bowie, vs Golden State in the 1st round of the NBA play offs)
Gueye has shown that he is not just a player that can receive a dish and dunk, clean up missed shots on putbacks, rebound, etc. He has shown he can face up drive, hit floaters, lay ups, dunks, finish, etc in lane, make some moves on defenders in lane, paint, can hit the occasional midrange, 3 pointer, tho at a semi bad, semi below average percentage(ABOUT 29 ish %).
He can guard 4's, 3's, even some 2's, on the perimeter. He can rebound. He also did a drive dunk posterization over a player. He also did a dunk where he took off from behind the freethrow line in distance, and soared, flew up to where his arms, chest etc, was about 3,4,5,6 ish feet above the top of the rim, and slam dunked it with AUTHORITY(HAMMERED IT. JUST LIKE A SHAQ LEVEL DUNK, except the rim, backboard didn't break, bend, shatter, like the SHAQ dunk.
That also happened in the NIT.
And that's something else. These Bill Walton's, NBA announcers, former NBA player's, coaches, college announcers, former, current college coaches, agents, recruiters, experts, pundits, etc, have seen Efe's, and Gueye's NBA Level highlight reel in the NIT over some of the semi best players in the NIT, and they see that and think "Wow, that's a NBA player, or Wow they may be raw, need some development, might be a semi project, but wow to they can be turned into a NBA player, and maybe even a NBA superstar".
Jourdand you ONLY see 8 points, 5 rebounds. You don't see what their trained scout eyes see.
You can't just go by 8 ppg, and 5 rebounds per game.
Efe has scored about 18,19,20 ish points about 2,3,4 ish times this season. He was recovering from a injury, and because he had a great awesome freshman season, defenders focused on shutting him down,double teamed him, etc. Also the guards were not getting him the ball. Also Jackson was also injured, so couldn't draw defenders to him. And Efe was semi raw, young, needed some more polish, development.
All that combined together is why Efe didn't do as good early to mid season. BUT he did a LOT better in late season, and in NIT.
So you don't go by early to mid season EFE, you instead go by LATE SEASON, NIT EFE.
Guarantee that most, everybody I named above are not going by early to mid season EFE, and instead are going by LATE season to NIT EFE and are aware of all the nuances, etc, that I pointed out about what hampered EFE earlier in the season.
Gueye:
Like Efe you can't go by earlier in the season. Again the guards didn't help him develop, by getting him the ball, and Jackson was injured, wasn't available to help draw defenders away from Gueye.
And Gueye was 17,18 years young, semi raw, undeveloped.
But despite that Gueye scored about 29 ish points in 1,2 games as a freshman, late middle to late in the season, and did A LOT, even better in the NIT.
And his production at about 7.5 to 8.3 ppg, 6,7,8 ish rebounds per game as a FRESHMAN was either almost equal to an or equal to almost better then JRUE HOLIDAY's(a freshman that lottery drafted, did not have the NBA body, frame, athleticism, etc, that GUEYE had), about 7, 7.5,8,8.5 ppg, 4,5,6 assist per game.
And like I said most of everybody I mentioned is rightfully going by Gueye's late season to NIT performance, not by his early season to early mid season semi struggles.
Also look at it this way at the same point in former NBA player James Donaldson's college career, EFE, GUEYE, ARE FURTHER ALONG THEN JAMES DONALDSON WAS AT IN, AT THE SAME POINT, IN HIS DEVELOPMENT, COLLEGE CAREER(Freshman, Sophmore.)
There is a reason why NBADRAFTROOM.COM, projected Gueye as a LOTTERY PICK after his Junior year, and continue to project that.
There is a reason why Gueye and Efe have been offered an or are worth 200k to 250k on the open market.
Yeah some of it is teams, recruiters willing to overpay, just because they can.
But some of it is semi legit too.
All the people I mentioned know more then you and me, they are more credible, and they know what I have talked about in this comment.
And I put more stock in, and will listen to believe go by them, and the stuff I mentioned in this comment over you, because it is more accurate, logical, credible, etc, then you.
Your just not right Jourdand, and you can't and shouldn't only just go by Efe's, Gueye's about 8 ish ppg, and 5,6 ish rebounds per game, as those stats don't tell the whole story, don't give a accurate picture of their situation.
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Check out the photos when she flew down to Fresno to sign up her latest dream coach.
On the bright side we just landed Adrame Diongue. Enjoy him for his 1 year.
Diongue is a really good get though. It's interesting Mo Gueye (along with TJ Bamba) hosted Diongue, Gueye goes portal, but Diongue still commits. Haven't heard something like that take place where the recruit still commits.
They still have a lot of work to do. Jarod Lucas is still out there and I'm hoping we can get involved with USF's Khalil Shabazz. Shabazz is potentially a better answer in the backcourt as a lead type PG than what we had last year.
They still have a lot of work to do. Jarod Lucas is still out there and I'm hoping we can get involved with USF's Khalil Shabazz. Shabazz is potentially a better answer in the backcourt as a lead type PG than what we had last year.
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Yeah a ULTIMATE EXTREMELY GOOD 4,5 STAR LEVEL GET THAT WILL PROBABLY LEAVE TO EITHER NBA OR ANOTHER COLLEGE AFTER EITHER HIS FRESHMAN OR SOPHMORE YEAR AT WSU.
And as has been said WSU needs or will need about 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ish more after all the player that have an or will transfer from WSU are done transferring from WSU.
Good luck doing that tho. Probably won't happen and I will believe it if I see it.
Nice pick up! This might be our destiny, solid recruiting then players bail after a year or two. We are getting used to over hyping of our teams but in most years at WSU this team would create a lot of excitement. We lost a lot but still have a lot . I personally don’t feel anybody we lost can’t be replaced, and this is a start.
ESPN article on Diongue. It's a strange feeling to get a commit from the top available HS big in the spring after seeing half the roster go to the portal.
www.espn.com
Diongue, No. 43 recruit in '22, commits to Wazzu
Adrame Diongue, a 7-foot center ranked No. 43 overall in the class of 2022, has committed to Washington State, he told ESPN Tuesday.
I have to think Gueye had some influence on getting him to commit here. He had some big time offers.
Interesting that Efe, said he wasn't coming back when he hit the portal, I believe Mo left the door open, maybe he actually likes it at WSU and is hoping we "match the offer" So maybe there is a big donor that likes Basketball or 100 fans that come up with $2500 each. Just kidding of course, none of which will happen so I assume he is gone, but I do think it is something you will see in the future like in free agency, match the offer, so developing a NIL pool for basketball will be a necessity, to limit the exodus of players.
So Smith needs now another big and 4 guards and lets hope Rosario develops along with Rice. I do believe a point guard that makes consistent good passes to the post would make this team a lot better. Last year as a team passing to the interior was very weak, Roberts, Flowers and Williams all struggled with it, hopefully it's a priority on the ones they pick up.
So Smith needs now another big and 4 guards and lets hope Rosario develops along with Rice. I do believe a point guard that makes consistent good passes to the post would make this team a lot better. Last year as a team passing to the interior was very weak, Roberts, Flowers and Williams all struggled with it, hopefully it's a priority on the ones they pick up.
It's my understanding that players who decide to enter the draft can hire agents and not risk their college status should they decide to return to school. Since Efe & Mo have put their name in the NBA hat, they probably have an agent. What's unclear to me is what role those agents can or cannot have– are they restricted to only dealing with NBA matters? College players are also currently allowed to hire agents to handle NIL deals. I don't know of any rules that prohibit those types of agents from seeking NIL deals connected to specific schools before the players they represent actually choose a school. There could be such rules & restrictions, but I just don't know. Either way, it's a mess, there doesn't seem to be any control or enforcement by the NCAA, and I wouldn't be surprised if agents are involved one way or the other when it comes to Efe and Mo.
Glad Cougar
For the athlete to retain their college eligibility the agent has to be an NCAA-certified agent.
NCAA-certified agents helping college athletes test NBA draft waters
This DI program in its third year is designed to let players retain eligibility should they want to return to school.
www.ncaa.com
I was referring to the environment/ culture that players are expendable. While it is 100% in the rules that an athletes scholarship is year to year, It has always been unwritten practice of a 4 year commitment.
Doesn't fit the narrative that athletics is akin to a plantation and athletes are indentured labor who receive nothing in return for their efforts. Also, gotta make sure to point out the exceptions to the rule like SEC schools who actually do pull schollies, despite most of the 120+ schools not engaging in such behavior.
I’m not sure where this came from as I said nothing of the sort..
I’m guessing your a working man.. Think of it as your employment… Your benefit is your pay or education in this case… When your employer takes care of you and sets an environment where you feel appreciated, understood and the work you are doing is the work you want to do.. You are less likely to leave.
If your employer is constantly promoting others over you, Creates a hostile environment, or isn’t clear to you about your role in the company.. You start looking for the exits.. It’s not difficult to understand…
When you recruit over athletes, play a style of basketball that does not fit their skill set, and their teammates are constantly wondering if they will have a scholarship next year then people have a tendency to look out for themselves and I am 100% of the belief that that is what’s at least partially responsible for what we are seeing…
The other possibility is obviously that the money is too great to turn down, which may also be playing a large role..One can never discount NIL deals that may follow, but I do not believe that is the biggest factor.
I'm not discounting what you think is going on with the program, but I still would like some specifics. Who on the team has been recruited over? What has the coaching staff done to create a hostile environment? Should they not try to recruit the best players possible, even if it means some may displace others in the lineup? Smith has been at WSU for three years. The players he has recruited should have known when they signed their LOI what style of basketball is played, it really hasn't changed a lot since he's been there. I'm just not sure how many of these factors you cite are causing what's going on.
Glad Cougar
If a staff isn't trying to recruit over players, they aren't really doing their job. Players obviously want to be treated fairly but that doesn't mean competition becomes an issue for most players.
Koulibaly was recruited over but his shoulder leading to missing his first year didn't help. Rapp for sure and Kunc. In Kunc's case when he actually started to produce his last 10 games his minutes increased along with his play. I still buy into grad school being a driver for his departure but nothing was confirmed there.
Efe and Gueye were definitely not recruited over even with the Diongue signing.
Koulibaly was recruited over but his shoulder leading to missing his first year didn't help. Rapp for sure and Kunc. In Kunc's case when he actually started to produce his last 10 games his minutes increased along with his play. I still buy into grad school being a driver for his departure but nothing was confirmed there.
Efe and Gueye were definitely not recruited over even with the Diongue signing.
Sorry Glad. I pointed these out in other texts, not wanting to rehash The Who, part but, Plenty examples over the past few years.
It is not a matter of right or wrong it’s the simple understanding that recruiting someone has almost always been an understanding of a commitment until graduation. Staff is 100% in their right to pull a schollie, tell an athlete they won’t play if they stay, recruit others at your position. It just gives the program a negative feel amongst the players.. I’ve been there myself and seen it multiple times. Where these things affect the players.. It should be the exception to the rule, not a way to get ahead. I used a hostile environment as a comparison to a job not the team, but it creates an environment where players aren’t secure in their role or whether they will be on the team next year. That is not good. No one wants to be at a place or play on a team where they have no idea whether they will be there a year from now…
As for the communication piece. Do you honestly believe that we recruited some of the best bigs we have ever recruited and our sales pitch was that we would be jacking up 3’s and their job was to block shots and rebound??? Having a great sales pitch was all you needed before, once you got the kid in the door you pretty much had them for 4 years.. These days you had better be recruiting your own players and keeping them happy as well.
I’m not disagreeing with any of this except for the part about the coaches job…All coaches make mistakes in recruiting and have the occasional player that they help relocate to a team or a division more suitable to their skill set, but it should not be a team building strategy…
Good coaches find a mix of players that will play as freshman because they are ready or that they see someone they can develop into a player..
It should not be that I gave you a scholarship last year and convinced you to come here but I found someone better and I need your scholarship or your not as good as I thought you were so you should probably transfer… That affects everyone on the team… Everyone! These kids live together, grind together, and become friends with a shared goal… Watching this happen to 1 person is difficult as a player, not to mention 2,3, or 4 over a 2 to 3 year period … It makes you think a coach doesn’t care and that you are just a commodity…No hard feelings to the coach, but that grass looks greener over there!
You conveniently leave out the option of "you're actually a shitty worker and spend more time leaning on the broom than pushing it because you stare at the success of others and instead of dedicating yourself to working harder to make yourself invaluable to the company, you piss and moan about how others have it better than you."
Of course there's the other possibility, which is "you've reached the level at which your talent allows you to rise to". Which is why I've never minded (as much) when players leave to go play D2 - 4 years is a long time to sit on a bench.
And you seem to be saying that Coach Smith did this to who? Noah left because Noah was a dumb a$$ and thought he a Star Player could have a fake ID on campus. Jeff K left because he bailed on his team mates had a 'Tude and wasn't a future NBA player. Rapp left after securing his degree and wanted to no doubt get some playing time in at Hawaii as a Grad Transfer.
Efe and Mo want to be pro's and want some moneyh.
Who on Earth are you talking about? This vague stuff sounds like pure Crappola to me.
This is pure conjecture and as such is probably complete nonsense, these players are chasing money, period
I left it out because I have never heard anyone describe any of the players that way.. Which players would this be referring too. If this is why they were asked to leave I agree, but I haven’t heard that scenario..
It’s actually not conjecture, but yes the money could be part of it for 2 of the players..
I’m not into arguing and your opinion is as valid as any other in my book… I guess we will see what happens moving forward..
If it was the players then this should be the end of it… Bear in mind that I said I saw this coming before Noah left…
I love how Noah is painted in a negative light. Rewind 1 year and everyone thought he would be the savior to lead the program.. He did too, obviously.. That didn’t happen Now he’s a negative. Because he had a fake ID, in Pullman mind you?!
sheesh
You fail once again to answer the question. Who did Smith or the staff recruit over? Who is being mistreated?
Noah was one of my favorite players, but he simply didn't perform after his "stunt". He was a pre-season ALL PAC12 who digressed, probably from lack of playing time -- NOT.
You say my opinion, I didn't express one, I only say that you are wrong and have nothing to back up your conjecture. Lots of players have errored in Pullman, I remeber another dumb A$$ that thought he could swipe some stuff from Dismores...turned into a Star Cougar and is now I believe a lawyer.
Noah was one of my favorite players, but he simply didn't perform after his "stunt". He was a pre-season ALL PAC12 who digressed, probably from lack of playing time -- NOT.
You say my opinion, I didn't express one, I only say that you are wrong and have nothing to back up your conjecture. Lots of players have errored in Pullman, I remeber another dumb A$$ that thought he could swipe some stuff from Dismores...turned into a Star Cougar and is now I believe a lawyer.
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Yeah, I knew, know that he Gueye would, will probably be drafted lottery, or 1st or 2nd round after his soph year, and likely lottery pick after his Jr year.
And I figured he would be G League if went pro this year, instead of either staying or portaling to another college.
But OH NO, Jourdand can't see why the NBA, would give him a G league chance, and why so many colleges are after him, and why he is getting 200k+ NIL offers.
Jourdand doesn't get POTENTIAL, FREAK ATHLETICISM, UPSIDE, ETC.
All he understands is 8 point, 5,6 rebounds, stats, good stats, crappy stats.
He doesn't understand how a 7,8 ppg(Freshman year), JRUE Holiday(Playing pretting good in playoffs), Efe(8 ppg), Gueye(about 8 ish ppg), get drafted, don't think they get drafted because of their CRAPPY STATS.
with no supporting evidence it is nothing but conjecture
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