Details on Brand X behind their paywall, same as with the original behind Canzano's paywall. Probably the same old same old, but as always interested to hear what the hack says. Anyone with access to either please opine?
New Canzano Pac-2/MW article
- Thread starter Loyal Coug1
- Start date
There's a thread on reddit saying that OSU and WSU only want nine teams from the MWC and also said the following:
The seven to nine accepted Mountain West teams must also sign a contract that they will raise their athletic budgets to $60 million per year, with a separate minimum for football as well. (there is a distinct possibility that Air Force may vote to dissolve and then head to the AAC - if it still exists). The new additions have three years to meet the budget floor and if they cant their membership is revoked.
Basically, WSU and OSU are trying to force the MWC teams into upping their game to stay more competitive. I'll be curious to see if WSU can meet the threshold......
Any details on the ESPN/FOX TV money funding this or return to Power 5 status?
Or is this just more silly Reddit Rumor?
@Flatlandcoug
???
Pres. Schulz has indicated more than once that WSU is committed to remaining at the Power-5 level in terms of investment in athletics. There have been articles on Brand X and Brand Y where PKS talks about spending some of the settlement nest egg on making sure there's no drop off in commitment.
Unless there are concerns about Dr. Schultz's successor (TBA), it seems WSU is focused on continuing to be successful on and off the field while ideally attracting interest from the Big 12 and ACC
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I know that we've made a "commitment" to remaining at the Power 5 Level. I also know that WSU fans suck at supporting the team. I know that Apple Cup tickets are overpriced, but fans saying that they are going to skip the game out of principle are missing the point. Too often, we miss the point.
There will never be a return to Power 5 (4) status unless the Big-12 takes us. And yes this is just another, rather dated, rumor. ESPN and Fox are bankrolling no such thing.
If you’ve seen the committee they assembled to hire the new president, you’ve seen why this search wont be any different.
They said they wanted a good cross section of the university, but what that really meant was picking a couple of token functionary staff to put in a room with a bunch of upper administrators. Sure, the staff and students are represented - but they’re severely outvoted by the people who choose based on politics rather than capabilities.
Expect more of the same. This will not be a visionary, Eldon Floyd sort of hire. It’ll be an appeaser who doesn’t spend money on anything.
Actually I got curious and took a look at the "advisory committee". Aside from the fact that I think our BOR as a whole is a lame lot, the group looks pretty good. A bit heavy on the diversity side, but hey. The one odd one I see is Ike Ukaegbu from Athletics, a fairly recent Chun hire who I has assumed would be the first AD administration layoff by Anne McCoy. Guess not. Of course he is the only person of color in Athletics administration so I guess no surprise there. I did see in his bio that he "leads the group of sport administrators charged with providing day-to-day oversight of WSU’s varsity sports". Wait, wasn't that what they said Anne did before becoming AD?
Presidential Search Advisory Committee finalized
The committee members represent many of the WSU community groups that have a vested interest in the success of Washington State University.
news.wsu.edu
They went for a mix of genitals and complexions rather than perspectives. And way too many of them are Schulz hires…including some that are pretty recent. I expect little.Actually I got curious and took a look at the "advisory committee". Aside from the fact that I think our BOR as a whole is a lame lot, the group looks pretty good. A bit heavy on the diversity side, but hey. The one odd one I see is Ike Ukaegbu from Athletics, a fairly recent Chun hire who I has assumed would be the first AD administration layoff by Anne McCoy. Guess not. Of course he is the only person of color in Athletics administration so I guess no surprise there. I did see in his bio that he "leads the group of sport administrators charged with providing day-to-day oversight of WSU’s varsity sports". Wait, wasn't that what they said Anne did before becoming AD?
Presidential Search Advisory Committee finalized
The committee members represent many of the WSU community groups that have a vested interest in the success of Washington State University.
Bullshit.
I give an extra $100 every year we have a game in Seattle vs. supporting an ounce of the fawg duckers.
You can donate to help Wazzu and still not give in.
Not one penny should EVER go to those who bent us over and talk down to us!
"And for good measure... sit on this John!"
If it's not just redit rumor, etc, about 60 million isn't or shouldn't be a problem for WSU, as for the about last about, around about 27 to 30 to 33+ years, etc, WSU's football budget, and athletic budget, altho in red, and not in black, etc, still had about a 68 to 73, 74 to 79 ish actual amount of money WSU had access to, spent, budgeted, etc, that despite being one of the worst in power 5, was still at a power 5 level.
Also WSU during that time, didn't ever drop below 60 million. Could that theoretically happen? Yes, it's technically possible, but not likely, and the chances of that happening is probably about .5 of 1%,1%, 2%, etc.
And if WSU, OSU, PAC succeeds in getting at least 5 to 7 to 9 MWC colleges, rebuilding PAC, etc, to hybrid, Quasi a combination of being a hybrid P4, P5, G5, ish level conference, that gets 17 to 20 to 23 million per year per team media deal, and 5 to 7 to 9 million per year from CFP, instead of the 1.8 mil the AAC, MWC, etc, get(already the CFP, powerbrokers, etc, said that if WSU rebuild, etc, that until 2028, if they meet the 2026 deadline, get about 3.5 million for the Pac, and that's without the PAC adding teams yet, etc.)
And if PAC, WSU, OSU, etc, get a better Bowl lineup, 1 semi guaranteed CFP spot to a 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 12-0 conference champ, etc(currently under how it is now until 2026 to 2028, in theory the PAC champ could go 11-1, and not goto, get one of the 12 CFP spots, and that spot, could instead goto one of the other G5 conference champs instead, and the only to avoid having it be that way after 2028, if meet the 2026 deadline, is if get the top 5 to 7 to 9 MWC teams, and add teams like Memphis, or Tulane, an or ACC leftovers etc).
If all, or almost all, most of that happens, etc, WSU, and OSU, should have no problems, and will, would probably stay above 60 million.
But if WSU, OSU, etc, don't successfully rebuild the conference, and if don't get a invite to ACC, Big 12, etc, in the next about 2, 3,4 years, etc, then WSU, OSU MIGHT, MAY(Still low degree of possibility that that would happen), not be able to consistently hit, sustain, etc, that 60 million number)
If I was in charge, I would set that number at around, close to about 50 to 53 million ish. That's high enough to still push, hold the colleges to a higher, standard, and some 1,2, etc, might not make it, etc, but the chances of WSU failing to get at least 50 million, would be about .07 of 1% ish, not impossible, but bloody dam unlikely not likely to happen, and at the same time depending on how successful the PAC is rebuilt, etc, if it is even rebuilt, if PAC not merged, or if WSU, OSU don't goto Big 12, ACC, etc, then 50 million, would be bloody dam unlikely for WSU to fail to reach 50 mil, and even 60 mil is still unlikely(about .5 of 1%, 1.5% chance that wouldn't hit 60 million number.
I would say 50 million, but 60 million is, will, would, etc, be ok too.
Again.....proof that our fans don't get the point. If we don't buy tickets to the game.....we are hurting WSU in the long run. If our fans in Seattle don't show up, UW is going to use that as leverage to MF us in the future when it comes to revenue. And we need that revenue to keep us above $60 million.
And good for you for giving $100 extra but you can rest assured that most of the other empty seats in the WSU section aren't doing that. But hey, by throwing a tantrum, you allow UW to control the narrative and talk about how sh!tty WSU fans are....so there's that.
You’re all over the board, flatlandcoug.
You scream at the clouds blaming WSU fans about lack of support, a ticket BUYER mentions what he does to help compensate then, jump down his throat that his effort isn’t good enough.
No question WSU is facing a daunting lack of financial support but, the support fail for WSU is by Fox, NCAA, ESPN, P-12 Presidents and all of the Power 5 conferences.
If Cougini5591 kicked his additional donation up 10x or 100x it would not register a statistical blip toward solving WSU’s glaringly obvious problem. (We don’t have an invite to the Cool Kids Party)
You scream at the clouds blaming WSU fans about lack of support, a ticket BUYER mentions what he does to help compensate then, jump down his throat that his effort isn’t good enough.
No question WSU is facing a daunting lack of financial support but, the support fail for WSU is by Fox, NCAA, ESPN, P-12 Presidents and all of the Power 5 conferences.
If Cougini5591 kicked his additional donation up 10x or 100x it would not register a statistical blip toward solving WSU’s glaringly obvious problem. (We don’t have an invite to the Cool Kids Party)
I'm telling you without question that if 25,000 Coug fans didn't go to the Seattle game, but gave $100 to WSU athletics in protest... it would have a larger and louder effect than doing anything that gives to purple hard sniffers.
Talk about people being dense
I'm continuing to be curious about the revenue split from the Apple Cup. Does WSU get half of the total (net) gate, or do we get all (net) of OUR gate? If the former, yeah we are better off to skip the game, get half of the money paid by mutt fans, and donate $100 or whatever directly to WSU. If the latter, the question becomes more complex. What if we don't sell many tickets at all (1,700 was the last number, what is it now Anne?)? Might we end up losing money, after paying for half of the game overhead? That would be a twist, eh?
To the other string on this mystery Pac-X proposal. Where is this coming from, other than Canzano's clickbait? As to this $60M floor in revenues, see link below for 2023's numbers. Only 4 schools hit $60M. Reachable goal for most though. No numbers for SJSU and UNM, but you can bet they are way under $60M. BTW I don't really buy into this threshold. I can just imagine the financial sleight of hand that would happen to try to "reach" $60M.
Mountain West Conference | College Athletics Database
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I'm continuing to be curious about the revenue split from the Apple Cup. Does WSU get half of the total (net) gate, or do we get all (net) of OUR gate? If the former, yeah we are better off to skip the game, get half of the money paid by mutt fans, and donate $100 or whatever directly to WSU. If the latter, the question becomes more complex. What if we don't sell many tickets at all (1,700 was the last number, what is it now Anne?)? Might we end up losing money, after paying for half of the game overhead? That would be a twist, eh?
To the other string on this mystery Pac-X proposal. Where is this coming from, other than Canzano's clickbait? As to this $60M floor in revenues, see link below for 2023's numbers. Only 4 schools hit $60M. Reachable goal for most though. No numbers for SJSU and UNM, but you can bet they are way under $60M. BTW I don't really buy into this threshold. I can just imagine the financial sleight of hand that would happen to try to "reach" $60M.
Mountain West Conference | College Athletics Database
knightnewhousedata.org
Here is an article that has some revenue numbers for MWC. This guy also likes to throw out his stats and charts so there is some good numbers to look at.
His take on joining a Pac-12 rebuild: ( I bolded that last sentence. It made me laugh. But, it's probably true.)
Bonus: Should any Mountain West Team leave to Rebuild the PAC-12?
Nope. Not as it is. If Washington State and Oregon State want to leave to officially leave and kill the PAC-12 for good, I see no issue in the Mountain West picking them up. Cincinnati and Connecticut went through something similar when the Big East Football Conference died out about 15 years ago. Connecticut football has struggled since then, but Cincinnati is back in the bigger conferences. Washington State and Oregon State might take the same path.
The biggest reason not to join the PAC-12 is because of why they folded. Again from Monores Analytics, the PAC-12 had the highest operating costs of any Power Conference: $118 million, or 20% of their total revenue. The SEC was second with $83 million, or 10% of revenue. Even if they PAC-12 had cut their operating expenses to just 10%, that would have resulted in an additional $60 million for the schools, or about $5 million each. Coupled with how bad their proposed Apple TV deal was, I’m not surprised the PAC-12 died out. If the Mountain West wants to take the licensing and trademarks of the PAC-12, sure. But don’t let them remain in charge.
Peak Perspective: A Deep Dive into Conference Realignment
What This All Means for the Mountain West
www.mwcconnection.com
Hey Meister! Good to see you stopping by. I read this whole article, thankfully I'm sober so was able to get through it. A lot there. The part about the Pac-12 having the highest operating costs was striking, but not all that surprising. Another good reason for the reverse merger and eliminating the Pac-2 offices in favor of Gloria and the new Pac-14 offices. In my humble but also all-knowing, all-seeing and all-comprehending mind.Here is an article that has some revenue numbers for MWC. This guy also likes to throw out his stats and charts so there is some good numbers to look at.
His take on joining a Pac-12 rebuild: ( I bolded that last sentence. It made me laugh. But, it's probably true.)
Bonus: Should any Mountain West Team leave to Rebuild the PAC-12?
Nope. Not as it is. If Washington State and Oregon State want to leave to officially leave and kill the PAC-12 for good, I see no issue in the Mountain West picking them up. Cincinnati and Connecticut went through something similar when the Big East Football Conference died out about 15 years ago. Connecticut football has struggled since then, but Cincinnati is back in the bigger conferences. Washington State and Oregon State might take the same path.
The biggest reason not to join the PAC-12 is because of why they folded. Again from Monores Analytics, the PAC-12 had the highest operating costs of any Power Conference: $118 million, or 20% of their total revenue. The SEC was second with $83 million, or 10% of revenue. Even if they PAC-12 had cut their operating expenses to just 10%, that would have resulted in an additional $60 million for the schools, or about $5 million each. Coupled with how bad their proposed Apple TV deal was, I’m not surprised the PAC-12 died out. If the Mountain West wants to take the licensing and trademarks of the PAC-12, sure. But don’t let them remain in charge.
Peak Perspective: A Deep Dive into Conference Realignment
What This All Means for the Mountain West
The graphs kind of bewildered me, but then again according to my doctor Ronny Johnson (another thread) my cognitive abilities are slipping a bit. I'm sure the rest of the Einsteins on this board understand them fully.
I'm telling you that I don't disagree with the theory, but I also know that 25,000 Cougs aren't donating $100 (or an extra $100) to WSU every year instead of going to the game. It would be great if they did....but when our "Diehard Cougs" Facebook page is filled with "how can I watch the game for free?" posts followed by "I'm not rich like you where you can spend $50/month for SlingTV!", I know that our fans are always looking for ways to be cheap fans...not good fans.
I'm continuing to be curious about the revenue split from the Apple Cup. Does WSU get half of the total (net) gate, or do we get all (net) of OUR gate? If the former, yeah we are better off to skip the game, get half of the money paid by mutt fans, and donate $100 or whatever directly to WSU. If the latter, the question becomes more complex. What if we don't sell many tickets at all (1,700 was the last number, what is it now Anne?)? Might we end up losing money, after paying for half of the game overhead? That would be a twist, eh?
To the other string on this mystery Pac-X proposal. Where is this coming from, other than Canzano's clickbait? As to this $60M floor in revenues, see link below for 2023's numbers. Only 4 schools hit $60M. Reachable goal for most though. No numbers for SJSU and UNM, but you can bet they are way under $60M. BTW I don't really buy into this threshold. I can just imagine the financial sleight of hand that would happen to try to "reach" $60M.
Mountain West Conference | College Athletics Database
The first five years of the deal is an even split of revenue. My point was that if our fans don't show up...the Huskies will use that as leverage to MF us in the future and keep the money, which then makes it less appealing to have a game....which forces us to find a different Power 5 opponent for our schedule every year....hoping that we don't get punked into body bag games, 2 for 1's or situations where the other team buys out the return game. We've only had two Power 5 OOC opponents in Pullman in the last three decades. Nobody is going to be knocking down our door to do so in the future. We've got a few lined up but we will have no leverage to work with in the future.
The Apple Cup is going to be our annual chance to knock the Huskies off their perch. If we are too chickensh!t to play them, that hurts us more than it hurts them.
We got punked into a body bag game in Seattle for 5 years by UW’s current AD.
You’re suddenly worried about a 2/1 ?
You’re suddenly worried about a 2/1 ?
How did we get punked into a body bag game in Seattle for 5 years? Here is the proposed schedule:
2024: Lumen Field (50/50 ticket split)
2025: Pullman
2026: Seattle (@ UW)
2027: Pullman
2028: Seattle (@ UW)
How is the above a bad deal for WSU? I get it that it was supposed to be in Pullman this year and that probably has you butt hurt, but really, as long as our fans don't act like whiny b!tches and not show up, there's nothing wrong with the game in Lumen either.
Being asked to spend 50% or more the cost of a season ticket package for one game is not missing the point, it's absurd
Keep chasing that power 5 dream.
Our Power 5 key fob no longer works at the gate. She gone and she ain’t coming home.
You want to spend your time Hawk Tuah with Pat Chun, go for it!
Our Power 5 key fob no longer works at the gate. She gone and she ain’t coming home.
You want to spend your time Hawk Tuah with Pat Chun, go for it!
Ok. I found a recent article by Christian Caple (name sound familiar? Link below) on the game, which mentions the revenue split as being 50/50. Ok, so rather than have half of your ticket money go to the mutts, send it the CAF.
Caple: Why are Apple Cup tickets so expensive? Let's examine
Early ticket sales for the neutral-site Apple Cup between the UW Huskies and WSU Cougars for 2024 have caused sticker shock.
sports.mynorthwest.com
You (and Uber) mention body-bag games, his reference pertaining to the mutts, yours in general. Think about this. WSU wants desperately to stay "Power 5", but playing top Power 4 teams are body bag games? And the mutts are now a body-bag game? Granted most Power 4 teams, particularly in the Big-12 and ACC, would not rise to the level of body-bag games, but you sort of get my drift. We want to stay big-time, but concede that we really aren't and won't be. My take anyway.
Don't get me wrong.....I don't blame people for waiting to see if tickets get discounted. I think it's criminal that WSU agreed with UW on that pricing. That's a different conversation than I'm not going to support my team because UW is getting some of the money.
W
I'm continuing to be curious about the revenue split from the Apple Cup. Does WSU get half of the total (net) gate, or do we get all (net) of OUR gate? If the former, yeah we are better off to skip the game, get half of the money paid by mutt fans, and donate $100 or whatever directly to WSU. If the latter, the question becomes more complex. What if we don't sell many tickets at all (1,700 was the last number, what is it now Anne?)? Might we end up losing money, after paying for half of the game overhead? That would be a twist, eh?
To the other string on this mystery Pac-X proposal. Where is this coming from, other than Canzano's clickbait? As to this $60M floor in revenues, see link below for 2023's numbers. Only 4 schools hit $60M. Reachable goal for most though. No numbers for SJSU and UNM, but you can bet they are way under $60M. BTW I don't really buy into this threshold. I can just imagine the financial sleight of hand that would happen to try to "reach" $60M.
Mountain West Conference | College Athletics Database
You've been waiting to say Hawk Tuah haven't you?
It's a bad deal for WSU because they did those f***ks a favor and allowed them to have the neutral game in the first place. They put themselves in the spot, so hold it over their head. Terrible negotiation.
UW should never be played again. In any sport. At any time. People aren't buying tickets for 1. pricing and 2. the fact this game shouldn't continue in the first place.
Wonder if most WSU fans are with Flat or CSB on this one (certainly isn't any middle ground)?
Also wonder how viewpoints on either side will change if/when the Cougs and Beavs get into the Big 12?
I get the unhappiness...but the reality is that if everything goes well, WSU will get $4 million for the one game. Bear in mind that MWC teams get about the same money....for all of their sports. Money talks. As fans, we need to get past the anger and look at what's best for our program in the long run.
This year in particular presents an opportunity for us to take down the mutts while they try to figure everything out. When I look at our schedule, if Mateer can play well, our OL gets better at run blocking and the new transfers can fill gaps on defense, we have a legitimate shot at double digit wins this year. Wouldn't it be amazing to use back to back wins over Texas Tech and UW to vault into the Top 25 and end up playing in the first 12 team playoff?
I look at this year's AC as an opportunity to humiliate the mutts.
If the athletic department had an ounce of creativity, they could've found ways to not play UW and make money.
They called fans bluff and now it's the fans fault for not wanting this game?
I get WSU fans are/can be notoriously cheap, but there's a serious lack of pride from WSU's AD not telling UW to figure it on our their own -- UW abandoned a conference and then needed scheduling help? They asked WSU for help and WSU helped because..."state of Washington brotherhood"? They wanted to keep a "relationship"? But really...actually why? UW put themselves in the situation to begin with and WSU does them a favor? Nah. WSU had the all the negotiation power in this situation and whimpered. WSU should've said:
1. Get f***ked.
2. If you (UW) need the neutral game to accommodate your scheduling issues, we (WSU) either get $5M from you or we (WSU) get 75% of the gate or no game.
3. If you (UW) don't want to play by those terms, then it's H&H and you're coming to Pullman in 2024.
4. You (UW) don't like that? Shouldn't have left the conference. See ya. (Works to schedule Oregon instead, since they hate Oregon.)
The best thing for this athletic department to do is to tell UW to pound sand. They made their choice, but WSU isn't the battered brother that will play them just because.
WSU could go 11-1 in football next season and would end up No. 13 in the pre-playoff polls. FOX and ESPN run that show, and they don't want teams like WSU to play for all the marbles anymore.
I still wouldn't schedule UW on the very low possibility that WSU (and OSU) make it into the BXII. UW left, they made their bed and can sleep in it.
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