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Non conference schedule next 4 years

Geoduck12 said:
Really, 4 years and not 1 power 5 matchup. WTH.

2016

2017


2018



2019

vs UNorth Col
@ Central Michigan
vs BYU
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True, but at this moment, BSU and BYU are considered quality programs that are on the equal of most P5 teams. It is just like playing Gonzaga in basketball. Small league yes, but big time program.
 
Get those wins vs Iowa St, Kansas, Wake Forest, Maryland, Indiana. Bring some intersectional games against comparable programs.

4 Big Sky schools does what? Help recruiting? No. Beating them raise our reputation, no. Lose to them, set the program back 2-3 years, yep.
 
Lots of teams play FCS games to start the year off.

We aren't trying to create rankings to win a national title vote.

We are trying to build a program from the gutter of all FBS.

Here's the chart I posted earlier about us vs Power 5 teams

2000 - 2 (Cal/USC)
2001 - 7 (Cal, Arizona, OSU, Stanford, UCLA, ASU, Purdue)
2002 - 7 (Cal, USC, Stanford, Arizona, ASU, Oregon, UCLA)
2003 - 8 - (Colorado, Oregon, Arizona, Stanford, OSU, UCLA, ASU, Texas)
2004 - 3 (Arizona, UCLA, Washington)
2005 - 1 (Washington)
2006 - 5 (Baylor, Stanford, OSU, Oregon, UCLA)
2007 - 3 (UCLA, Stanford, Washington)
2008 - 1 (Washington)
2009 - 0
2010 - 1 (Oregon State)
2011 - 2 (Colorado, ASU)
2012 - 1 (Washington)
2013 - 4 (USC, Cal, Arizona, Utah)
2014 - 2 ( OSU, Utah)
2015 - 1 (Rutgers. 9 games remaining)

Beating Rutgers this year was the first Power 5 team we have ever beaten since 2006 (Baylor).

Boise State won the Fiesta Bowl last year. In that game they beat Arizona, and they just beat UW. That a great game for us to really try and outshine them with Falk as a RS Junior and get some national buzz.

This schedule is perfectly fine. BYU just beat Nebraska and they may give UCLA a run for their money this weekend.

These are great matchups for us to build up to being great. We can schedule stronger teams when we are strong.
 
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2018 is the only year I take issue with. The others are just fine, in my book. I look forward to Byu and bsu
 
Geoduck12 said:
Get those wins vs Iowa St, Kansas, Wake Forest, Maryland, Indiana. Bring some intersectional games against comparable programs.

4 Big Sky schools does what? Help recruiting? No. Beating them raise our reputation, no. Lose to them, set the program back 2-3 years, yep.
Click to expand...

Losing 40 of 46 games set the program back. And you're worrying now?
 
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Coug1990 said:
True, but at this moment, BSU and BYU are considered quality programs that are on the equal of most P5 teams. It is just like playing Gonzaga in basketball. Small league yes, but big time program.
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But they shouldn't be the cougs MARQUEE matchup, should they? Are they Good? Well, maybe. But they are not that matchup that people drive across the state to see (BYU will draw Mormons, of course, and from all directions in WA). SJS is an interesting home game. But not a lot of "Wow's!" there. SC got some heat from fans and alums about Idaho, but we needed the work, and it made for a good scrimmage
 
SCglory said:
But they shouldn't be the cougs MARQUEE matchup, should they? Are they Good? Well, maybe. But they are not that matchup that people drive across the state to see (BYU will draw Mormons, of course, and from all directions in WA). SJS is an interesting home game. But not a lot of "Wow's!" there. SC got some heat from fans and alums about Idaho, but we needed the work, and it made for a good scrimmage
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Uhh, no. A CONFERENCE game serves just fine for your "marquee" offering. Watching wins is more interesting than watching top flight opponents.

As for these schedules, I want two "Idaho" lines to take the place of @Wyoming, @CENTRAL(?) Michigan.

Seriously, we're doing home and homes with MAC teams- starting at their place?
 
Why are the Cougs traveling to Central Michigan? Home and home there doesn't really make sense. Maybe I am the minority.
 
I don't think any of the teams I listed are "top flight" programs they are comparable to where this program is today. Each of them would provide a highly competitive game and draw more fans. The nonconference schedule gets no national interest and little if any recruit interest.

I honestly don't understand why folks are always looking in the rear view mirror. This isn't Doba, it's not Wulff, it's a guy we are paying >$2 mil and in year 4 of his rebuild.
 
Cougatron said:
Lots of teams play FCS games to start the year off.

We aren't trying to create rankings to win a national title vote.

We are trying to build a program from the gutter of all FBS.

Here's the chart I posted earlier about us vs Power 5 teams

2000 - 2 (Cal/USC)
2001 - 7 (Cal, Arizona, OSU, Stanford, UCLA, ASU, Purdue)
2002 - 7 (Cal, USC, Stanford, Arizona, ASU, Oregon, UCLA)
2003 - 8 - (Colorado, Oregon, Arizona, Stanford, OSU, UCLA, ASU, Texas)
2004 - 3 (Arizona, UCLA, Washington)
2005 - 1 (Washington)
2006 - 5 (Baylor, Stanford, OSU, Oregon, UCLA)
2007 - 3 (UCLA, Stanford, Washington)
2008 - 1 (Washington)
2009 - 0
2010 - 1 (Oregon State)
2011 - 2 (Colorado, ASU)
2012 - 1 (Washington)
2013 - 4 (USC, Cal, Arizona, Utah)
2014 - 2 ( OSU, Utah)
2015 - 1 (Rutgers. 9 games remaining)

Beating Rutgers this year was the first Power 5 team we have ever beaten since 2006 (Baylor).

Boise State won the Fiesta Bowl last year. In that game they beat Arizona, and they just beat UW. That a great game for us to really try and outshine them with Falk as a RS Junior and get some national buzz.

This schedule is perfectly fine. BYU just beat Nebraska and they may give UCLA a run for their money this weekend.

These are great matchups for us to build up to being great. We can schedule stronger teams when we are strong.
Click to expand...
I' m sure you are aware this nonconference schedule takes us through year 8 of the Leach era rebuild. You are a pretty patient guy.
 
M-I-Coug said:
BYU and Boise State at home will not only be a first, but a huge milestone.
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Boise State at home not so much, that's happened plenty of times before (though mostly before the Broncos hit the "big time") but yes getting BYU in Pullman is big
 
Geoduck12 said:
I' m sure you are aware this non conference schedule takes us through year 8 of the Leach era rebuild. You are a pretty patient guy.
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Yes and when you are at the very bottom of all the power 5 to start it's going to take that long. The bigger the program....the faster the rebuild. We are not a big program. We were a program that was tremendously behind that takes years just to get on even footing with decent programs.

Unless WSU could magically pull in 4 top 25 classes every single year then we could expect a quicker rebuild, but we were averaging 90s out of 120 before he got here. Now we average about 50 out of 120 which is getting us on par with the Power 5 level. And those players don't hit their senior year until next year (Leach's first true class 2013 yields seniors in 2016).

So until 2016 we don't even enter a full maturity 1st class Leach team....which projected would put us in the top 50 programs in the country.

Why most programs that are poor stay poor is they don't recruit at a decent level and then they get impatient waiting for the results.

We are bringing in a lot of great players. Martin, Falk, Wicks, Priester, Morrow, Harrington, Madison, etc. are all underclassmen. Defensively Tago, White, Pippins, Pueller, Molton etc... all under classmen.

Right now we are good enough to beat Rutgers, but over the next few years the team will mature into something that can beat a lot of teams. These things take years to sort out and polish and mature. It just does from where we started from. The schedule we have is really good for a program that is growing into something.

If in 3 years if the program is on even footing as Boise/BYU that will be a tremendous step forward for us.

Boise has gone to a bowl game the last 13 years. The last 13 years we've gone to 1 bowl game.

BYU has gone to a bowl game the last 10 years. The last 10 years we've gone to 1 bowl game.

We're trying to get to a place where we are consistently going to bowl games. Leach has had 1 trip in 3 years. He has 10 games to get 5 more wins to get us to a 2nd in 4 years. This isn't a project that is solved in 4 years.
 
Yeah. Let's get back into the conversation of playing @Wisconsin and some other big teams. We can get our asses kicked, and start every season in a hole again, and ensure we never sniff a bowl game again - and we get paid maybe $800k.

One of Sterk's Rules for a Successful Football Program.
 
chipdouglas said:
Yeah. Let's get back into the conversation of playing @Wisconsin and some other big teams. We can get our asses kicked, and start every season in a hole again, and ensure we never sniff a bowl game again - and we get paid maybe $800k.

One of Sterk's Rules for a Successful Football Program.
Click to expand...

I love how this topic got so far off topic Kansas is not Wisconsin, Iowa State is not Michigan State, Maryland is not Ohio State, Wake Forest is not Alabama. If you evaluate a point stay on point.
 
Those bottom tier Big5 schools are not looking to schedule a bunch of games with other bottom tier Big5 schools and we should also take the same approach. Win the easy games you schedule to help biuld your program, and then start winning them like you should, then get to a couple bowl games, win 8 or 9, THEN maybe mix in a home and home with a 2nd tier major program.

You wanna play Wisconsin or Auburn again? Win 10 games and play in a NY bowl.
 
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CrimsonWazzu said:
Those bottom tier Big5 schools are not looking to schedule a bunch of games with other bottom tier Big5 schools and we should also take the same approach. Win the easy games you schedule to help biuld your program, and then start winning them like you should, then get to a couple bowl games, win 8 or 9, THEN maybe mix in a home and home with a 2nd tier major program.

You wanna play Wisconsin or Auburn again? Win 10 games and play in a NY bowl.
Click to expand...
Once again we pile on the exaggeration, my point to schedule lower tier power 5 teams becomes play Wisconsin or Auburn or some Top 20 team. Did not say that.

And
I think if you check, everyone of those programs mentioned plays a nonconference power 5 game. They don't "play a bunch" they play 1 virtually every year.

You may disagree but at least be accurate.
 
I'd be ok if WSU only played Power 5 teams. Right now they'd lose all of them. That doesn't help. And it doesn't help your exposure in California where the recruits are.

San Jose, Fresno, San Diego State.
 
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Geoduck12 said:
.And
I think if you check, everyone of those programs mentioned plays a nonconference power 5 game. They don't "play a bunch" they play 1 virtually every year.

You may disagree but at least be accurate.
Click to expand...
Seems like a difference between playing eight and nine conference games.
 
BiggsCoug said:
WSU should never leave its campus for a non league game. Just buy the teams out.

Start your season with 3 or 4 home games and go.
Click to expand...

I agree. Stack 8 home games and make $. Unless it's a big, big matchup - those are fun if the tOSU's actually play in Pullman. And dammit they should. Don't let the big boys buy out.
 
Geoduck12 said:
Once again please be accurate, Kansas and Iowa State are in the Big 12, how many conference games do they play
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You really think that Cougar fans and national media are suddenly go from "no attention" to "national spotlight"... by switching Idaho for Iowa State or some other P5 bottom feeder? Because?

When you start with that as your premise, you've chosen not to value accuracy.
 
With all due respect, if you honestly believe that beating any of those teams would not have a more positive impact on this program than beating Idaho, I guess we will agree to disagree.

If you also believe coverage by the NY media leading up to and after the Rutgers game had the same impact as playing Idaho or Eastern, well you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

The Wyoming game was only carried in Washington State, didn't even make the Portland market. I believe it may have been the only conference game to have such limited coverage, no broader regional or national coverage.
 
Good question regarding a BYU buyout. Isn't this a home and home? I think we'll end up playing them at home. We're overdue, right?!
 
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In my opinion, these schedules are pretty good given where the program is at right now. We just saw a near-sellout for Wyoming in September in a year in which half our fan base swore off ever setting foot in Pullman again two weeks prior.

Does it really make sense to bring in an Indiana (who is 3-0, by the way, having played three complete nobodies)? 90% of fans probably don't appreciate any difference between Indiana and Wyoming, and I doubt you'd see much of any increase in attendance to see them or some other low-tier Power 5 program. The likelihood of beating them, though, is significantly lower, and there's no other real motivation (exposure in, say, Indiana?).

OK, so you instead want a Wisconsin or someone like that? What is the bump in tickets sold over what we just saw for Wyoming ... maybe 1,000 more? So why pay the $750,000 or whatever Wisconsin would want to come to Pullman (or agree to some ridiculous 2-for-1)? To make less money on the game? To make bowl eligibility that much harder?

None of these ideas make any sense in a situation where the Pac-12 plays 9 conference games and other conferences aren't held to the same standard (although to be fair, I must note that the Big 10 is really tightening things up, as noted here).

Here is a good schedule until we get to the point where a mediocre year is 6-6:

- Weak FCS team (playing Eastern is the worst risk/reward tradeoff possible for WSU, IMO)
- Weak / moderate Group of 5 FBS team, preferably in WSU's recruiting footprint (e.g., San Jose State, UNLV, San Diego State)
- Idaho (yes, I'm serious - kick their asses every year, at least if they continue to try to hold on to being in FBS. This is a dream matchup ... close, cheap, both teams can fill the stands, can market the BS "battle of the Palouse" angle to justify it, easy FBS win)
 
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425cougfan said:
In my opinion, these schedules are pretty good given where the program is at right now. We just saw a near-sellout for Wyoming in September in a year in which half our fan base swore off ever setting foot in Pullman again two weeks prior.
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This argument/debate regarding our non-con and 8 vs 9, has gone on for years. I don't know that our program has changed enough to sway too many people one way or the other. While I disagree with you on this subject by splitting a hair with you, 425, I do want to use you're statement as an example of exaggeration that we tend to fall into… Hat tip to Geo on "exaggeration"…

HALF our fan base swore off? Half of them? Really? Come one, 425. If you are using Discussion Boards as a gauge, if you are using radio as a gauge, combine that with the few people in your circle you might be referencing as well? You do realize how inaccurate that is, right? This site (and others) can BLOW UP about something and I'm fairly certain the regular, band-wagon style fan will not have even HEARD about whatever topic we are all in a twit about. And I'd also wager, the regular, band-wagon fans out number ALL the sites and call in shows by a great majority. Which honestly is a good thing! We, as hard-core fans, can sometimes not see the forrest for the trees and react with such emotion and knee-jerk reaction that to have fans that just go for the love of the game, is a great way to insulate our program from such knee-jerk reactions as the blow up on this site, regarding the PSU game. So while I agree with many things you say, 425, this one… a little extreme in it's tone. I think part of what Geo is trying to point out.

Another note: You'll notice, the players, the coaches all reacted to how the crowd and fans helped the game for WYO. When the fans are a non-issue, they don't say anything. If they say anything, it is, "We should just do our job, regardless of the crowd". When the crowd is reactive, electric, etc. etc., it's "Wow the crowd was great! On those pivotal 3rd downs, they sure helped us! On Offense to hear the crowd roar made it all worth it." kinda thing. It's a pretty basic technique called "positive reinforcement" and many "child rearing professionals" (whatever the hell that is) use it. BUT it's a great parenting technique. When it's a negative action, don't do anything. When it's a positive, praise, praise, praise! Guess what… we're the children in this analogy. It'll be a great day when our fans go, just for love of the game. Winning will help, not disputing that… just sayin'.
 
Coug95man2 said:
This argument/debate regarding our non-con and 8 vs 9, has gone on for years. I don't know that our program has changed enough to sway too many people one way or the other. While I disagree with you on this subject by splitting a hair with you, 425, I do want to use you're statement as an example of exaggeration that we tend to fall into… Hat tip to Geo on "exaggeration"…

HALF our fan base swore off? Half of them? Really? Come one, 425. If you are using Discussion Boards as a gauge, if you are using radio as a gauge, combine that with the few people in your circle you might be referencing as well? You do realize how inaccurate that is, right? This site (and others) can BLOW UP about something and I'm fairly certain the regular, band-wagon style fan will not have even HEARD about whatever topic we are all in a twit about. And I'd also wager, the regular, band-wagon fans out number ALL the sites and call in shows by a great majority. Which honestly is a good thing! We, as hard-core fans, can sometimes not see the forrest for the trees and react with such emotion and knee-jerk reaction that to have fans that just go for the love of the game, is a great way to insulate our program from such knee-jerk reactions as the blow up on this site, regarding the PSU game. So while I agree with many things you say, 425, this one… a little extreme in it's tone. I think part of what Geo is trying to point out.

Another note: You'll notice, the players, the coaches all reacted to how the crowd and fans helped the game for WYO. When the fans are a non-issue, they don't say anything. If they say anything, it is, "We should just do our job, regardless of the crowd". When the crowd is reactive, electric, etc. etc., it's "Wow the crowd was great! On those pivotal 3rd downs, they sure helped us! On Offense to hear the crowd roar made it all worth it." kinda thing. It's a pretty basic technique called "positive reinforcement" and many "child rearing professionals" (whatever the hell that is) use it. BUT it's a great parenting technique. When it's a negative action, don't do anything. When it's a positive, praise, praise, praise! Guess what… we're the children in this analogy. It'll be a great day when our fans go, just for love of the game. Winning will help, not disputing that… just sayin'.
Click to expand...

You're right about the exaggeration re "half" our fans. It was more like 2/3 of the fans on the message boards, actually, including some ones you'd believe are pretty dedicated based on their willingness to pay money for content about WSU and access to premium message boards. That said, I was definitely using the good old tactic of clear, obvious exaggeration to poke fun at all of those who freaked out and went nuts yet, in the aggregate, were still there last Saturday. You obviously didn't have 50% of the total fans of WSU swearing they'd never go to Pullman again. What you had was a pretty big set of mercurial types who overreacted to the Portland State debacle.

But in any case, you're right about the exaggeration. I was using clear exaggeration as a tactic, not an attempt to get anyone to believe the clear exaggeration was an accurate number.

By the way, re the crowd this week, it was awesome. I've talked about that on Twitter and some other fora. The stands were almost completely full, not that many folks left at halftime (and most who did returned), and the crowd was active, loud at appropriate times, and so on. I'm hopeful that the positive reinforcement you're talking about works and that fans keep coming and giving the team a good home field advantage. As discussed in other threads here, while I don't think the lack of a good home crowd is an excuse for an abysmal performance against a team like Portland State, the notion that a full, boisterous crowd doesn't help the home team at all is just silly.
 
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425cougfan said:
By the way, re the crowd this week, it was awesome. I've talked about that on Twitter and some other fora. The stands were almost completely full, not that many folks left at halftime (and most who did returned), and the crowd was active, loud at appropriate times, and so on. I'm hopeful that the positive reinforcement you're talking about works and that fans keep coming and giving the team a good home field advantage. As discussed in other threads here, while I don't think the lack of a good home crowd is an excuse for an abysmal performance against a team like Portland State, the notion that a full, boisterous crowd doesn't help the home team at all is just silly.
Click to expand...

I heard the same things. I give the crowd a solid B which is an excellent improvement. Still don't like that some left at halftime, but I heard it was better. Crowds play a role in the games. People can pretend they don't, but they do, and typically it's on defense 3rd down etc. that their effect really can be the greatest.

Even Leach commented on it in the post game conference, and acknowledged himself that it helped the team, and I think it did help inspire the defense the second half. When you think about crowd noise on offense it's more reactionary...big noise after a big play....where is on defense it's a motivator for the home team / distraction for opposing team BEFORE the play. That's where you get that whole 12th man stuff. We've been missing that for a while.
 
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Cougatron said:
I heard the same things. I give the crowd a solid B which is an excellent improvement. Still don't like that some left at halftime, but I heard it was better. Crowds play a role in the games. People can pretend they don't, but they do, and typically it's on defense 3rd down etc. that their effect really can be the greatest.

Even Leach commented on it in the post game conference, and acknowledged himself that it helped the team, and I think it did help inspire the defense the second half. When you think about crowd noise on offense it's more reactionary...big noise after a big play....where is on defense it's a motivator for the home team / distraction for opposing team BEFORE the play. That's where you get that whole 12th man stuff. We've been missing that for a while.
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It was good. Noise was great, especially the first half. Second half, not quite as extreme on 3rd down but still good. Made me smile.

The South Side still had those empty pockets that, when looking from the North, was dreadful looking. Didn't take a picture this time but will next. I don't know what the hell is going on there… Why can't we get, I'd guess a good 1,000 fans that apparently have purchased tickets, to either show up or give them (or sell them) to someone willing to go?
 
Coug95man2 said:
Another note: You'll notice, the players, the coaches all reacted to how the crowd and fans helped the game for WYO. When the fans are a non-issue, they don't say anything. If they say anything, it is, "We should just do our job, regardless of the crowd". When the crowd is reactive, electric, etc. etc., it's "Wow the crowd was great! On those pivotal 3rd downs, they sure helped us! On Offense to hear the crowd roar made it all worth it." kinda thing. It's a pretty basic technique called "positive reinforcement" and many "child rearing professionals" (whatever the hell that is) use it. BUT it's a great parenting technique. When it's a negative action, don't do anything. When it's a positive, praise, praise, praise! Guess what… we're the children in this analogy. It'll be a great day when our fans go, just for love of the game. Winning will help, not disputing that… just sayin'.
Click to expand...


That does work, but when it's really bad like it was for portland state then you kind of half to get on people's ass about it. Because if you say nothing then people start thinking it's okay to do that. Or that it isn't a problem because everybody does it. It's not okay. And you heard a lot of people talk about it...me especially before this week. And it wasn't just me...lots of people were talking about it this week, players, press., and naturally people start talking about it and it gets around.

Now when the crowd shows up and does something...then it should be the responsibility of the team to take that energy and make something out of it. They don't have to win every game, but make it so the fans don't feel like their effort is wasted. Showing the fans that their energy is giving the team energy goes a long way, and I thought the defense and the crowd did a great job the 2nd half.

There were so many things wrong with the program over the years... From all the arrests/academic issues to the crowd/fans thinking they don't matter to the sub par talent level....

All these things have to be fixed and improved for us to be a competitive program.
 
Cougatron said:
Even Leach commented on it in the post game conference, and acknowledged himself that it helped the team, and I think it did help inspire the defense the second half. We've been missing that for a while.
Click to expand...

I think that was definitely by design. As in "come out and support the team, we need you all." Smart and subtle.


*The loudest I had heard Martin in over a decade was the Oregon game last season. That's where it's gotta be all the time (hopefully sooner than later). 2002 USC OT winner was the best experience I ever had and I still had a few years before i headed to college.
 
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