OK, SDSU and SMU

[Loyal Coug1]

According to Brand X (via John Canzano), invites are imminent. While I still hate the SMU idea, as I think about it and consider the proximity to Colorado and the Arizona schools, I guess I can handle it.

I won't link the article but it is worth the read. One quote from it - "One of the SMU donors Canzano spoke to said; “The pockets are there. Money isn’t an issue.”

 

[95coug]

According to Brand X (via John Canzano), invites are imminent. While I still hate the SMU idea, as I think about it and consider the proximity to Colorado and the Arizona schools, I guess I can handle it.

I won't link the article but it is worth the read. One quote from it - "One of the SMU donors Canzano spoke to said; “The pockets are there. Money isn’t an issue.”

Cool, so we don’t have to give them as much, right?


Edit, now that I’ve read it: David Miller. Deep pockets and a former SMU athlete, so probably has inside knowledge of the old days. The pony express rides again.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Wonder if San Diego St and SMU are the first step toward 16 teams to pull even with the SEC and Big Ten?

Colorado State, UNLV, Rice and Tulane next?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Cool, so we don’t have to give them as much, right?


Edit, now that I’ve read it: David Miller. Deep pockets and a former SMU athlete, so probably has inside knowledge of the old days. The pony express rides again.

I don't agree with the notion that we "discount" the new members. Share and share alike. Especially since they are taking their chances with the PAC.

 

[Coug1990]

According to Brand X (via John Canzano), invites are imminent. While I still hate the SMU idea, as I think about it and consider the proximity to Colorado and the Arizona schools, I guess I can handle it.

I won't link the article but it is worth the read. One quote from it - "One of the SMU donors Canzano spoke to said; “The pockets are there. Money isn’t an issue.”

This quote was regarding the conference buy out. Whatever they have to pay to leave their current conference, American Athletic Conference, they will pay it. Money isn't going to be an issue accepting a P12 conference bid.

 

[CougPatrol]

SMU doesn't bother me at all. I think it's smart having a program from Texas in our league.

 

[425cougfan]

I like the SMU invite for a lot of reasons. It seems odd at first blush having a lone outpost that far away the west coast from both SMU's perspective and that of other Pac-12 schools, and travel is going to be a pain, but it's close to the mountain state programs and, in a way, may help keep them around, and D/FW is about as good as it gets in terms of easy travel and accommodations. It also isn't much different from Boise State having been willing to play in the Big East, West Virginia playing in the Big 12, or SMU previously playing schools like South Florida, Coastal Carolina, and various others in the AAC. Even less ridiculous in some ways.

More generally, I'm firm with my belief that you can't just look at a G of 5 program and its lack of attendance and interest in a vacuum. SMU is expanding its stadium, has a shitload of money, and is the only real university in Dallas proper, which is a top-5 recruiting area and up there with just about anywhere. If TCU could step up to P5 and do pretty well, as it has done, I don't see why SMU couldn't do so over the next decade or so. It isn't going to displace UT or A&M among the attached, but they'll sell seats and get people to tune in if they are able to run top-25 types of teams out there, which I think they can do pretty often.

SDSU is a no-brainer like it long has been.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I like the SMU invite for a lot of reasons. It seems odd at first blush having a lone outpost that far away the west coast from both SMU's perspective and that of other Pac-12 schools, and travel is going to be a pain, but it's close to the mountain state programs and, in a way, may help keep them around, and D/FW is about as good as it gets in terms of easy travel and accommodations. It also isn't much different from Boise State having been willing to play in the Big East, West Virginia playing in the Big 12, or SMU previously playing schools like South Florida, Coastal Carolina, and various others in the AAC. Even less ridiculous in some ways.

More generally, I'm firm with my belief that you can't just look at a G of 5 program and its lack of attendance and interest in a vacuum. SMU is expanding its stadium, has a shitload of money, and is the only real university in Dallas proper, which is a top-5 recruiting area and up there with just about anywhere. If TCU could step up to P5 and do pretty well, as it has done, I don't see why SMU couldn't do so over the next decade or so. It isn't going to displace UT or A&M among the attached, but they'll sell seats and get people to tune in if they are able to run top-25 types of teams out there, which I think they can do pretty often.

SDSU is a no-brainer like it long has been.

Hard to argue with any of that!

Wouldn't mind at all if the commissioner is proactive and takes six schools instead of two.

Even if a Colorado and an Arizona leaves at some point, the conference would still be solid with 14 members

 

[95coug]

I don't agree with the notion that we "discount" the new members. Share and share alike. Especially since they are taking their chances with the PAC.

No way. They don’t get full shares until they show they pull their weight. Right now they both draw dick in spite of their large market locations. Especially when we don’t have any “marquee” programs to offset them, we can’t give them equal shares to bring nothing to to table.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

No way. They don’t get full shares until they show they pull their weight. Right now they both draw dick in spite of their large market locations. Especially when we don’t have any “marquee” programs to offset them, we can’t give them equal shares to bring nothing to to table.

Meh. When you say ""don't draw dick" are you talking about butts in seats (which doesn't matter, media money wise), or eyeballs on TV, which of course means everything?

If/when they join, they will play games against the rest of the PAC. Both teams in every game are responsible for the eyeballs. And their current eyeballs, being from G5 conferences, should change dramatically in P5.

Just my opinion, which of course is always spot on.

 

[95coug]

Meh. When you say ""don't draw dick" are you talking about butts in seats (which doesn't matter, media money wise), or eyeballs on TV, which of course means everything?

If/when they join, they will play games against the rest of the PAC. Both teams in every game are responsible for the eyeballs. And their current eyeballs, being from G5 conferences, should change dramatically in P5.

Just my opinion, which of course is always spot on.

Viewers. Haven’t bothered looking at their attendance, but I think they both play in small stadiums.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Viewers. Haven’t bothered looking at their attendance, but I think they both play in small stadiums.

SDSU - 35,000. SMU - 32,000.

 

[PeteTheChop]

SDSU - 35,000. SMU - 32,000.

Biggsy might know more about stadium sizes than about anyone here, and he's suggested before that WSU should expand Martin Stadium to around 55K.

Either way, that capacity couldn't hurt in the Pac-12 or a new-and-improved Big 12

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Biggsy might know more about stadium sizes than about anyone here, and he's suggested before that WSU should expand Martin Stadium to around 55K.

Either way, that capacity couldn't hurt in the Pac-12 or a new-and-improved Big 12

I have been a big advocate for us expanding to at least 40K, but until the membership gets sorted out, I'm now in a "hold" state of mind. At least if SMU joins we won't have the smallest PAC stadium anymore.

Sad though. I didn't look them all up, but if we bounced down to the Mountain West we would still have one of the smallest, if not the smallest, stadium.

And stadium size no longer matters. It's all about TV viewership. Meaning people who don't come to the games.

 

[Cougini5591]

Biggs can be as wrong as almost anyone on this board... but he's spot on with wanting our Stadium to have more seats... more "flair".

I think it helps us with San Diego State and SMU in the Pac if we can stand at the stall and say ours is bigger & better.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Biggs can be as wrong as almost anyone on this board... but he's spot on with wanting our Stadium to have more seats... more "flair".

I think it helps us with San Diego State and SMU in the Pac if we can stand at the stall and say ours is bigger & better.

So much wrong here. Standing at the stall checking out other men's junk is pretty creepy.

And you have really screwed the pooch suggesting that Biggs is ever wrong.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Biggs can be as wrong as almost anyone on this board... but he's spot on with wanting our Stadium to have more seats... more "flair".

I think it helps us with San Diego State and SMU in the Pac if we can stand at the stall and say ours is bigger & better.

I am not wrong. Eat shit.

WSU has a JV stadium.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I am not wrong. Eat shit.

WSU has a JV stadium.

Shit Biggs, he was agreeing with you! Go have a beer. I am right now. The mountains are blue.

 

[Cougini5591]

I am not wrong. Eat shit.

WSU has a JV stadium.

Whoa... I didn't say you were wrong. I'm totally on point with you on this!

 

[BiggsCoug]

Whoa... I didn't say you were wrong. I'm totally on point with you on this!

I am right about a lot of things. There are a significant amount of posters here that will choose the opposite side of what I say.

I have caught hell for saying WSU needs to expand significantly for over a decade. I was right then. Im right now. What’s sad is that there are so many shitbag fans that are determined for WSU to be the lovable loser.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I have caught hell for saying WSU needs to expand significantly for over a decade.

Can you imagine how loud and crazy a sold-out 56,000-seat Martin Stadium would be?!

Talk about a home-field advantage and a selling point to recruits

 

[Cougini5591]

I am right about a lot of things. There are a significant amount of posters here that will choose the opposite side of what I say.

I have caught hell for saying WSU needs to expand significantly for over a decade. I was right then. Im right now. What’s sad is that there are so many shitbag fans that are determined for WSU to be the lovable loser.

The "expansion" is misunderstood. It's like wanting a town/area to grow.

The idea that "Win first... build it later" is the way to go is moronic.

Boise State vs. WSU spells it out. They have a f*cking history now on ESPN. Bowl Games. They were a f*cking JC... big sky... and they get national shout out. Could they have done that with mini-seats? If they had the smallest stadium in the conference? No freaking way.

We have less than Boise freaking State.

Just figure out the East End Zone with luxury hotel seating and we could PIMP level in the Pac-12.

We want to bitch about people not showing up to bad weather games? Change to a better covered design.

Now I am going to hear that we don't have the money. No "reason" to build because we don't need to.

We can't get enough of the REAL players when we have "boring" facilities.

We will be "stuck as is" until we change.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The "expansion" is misunderstood. It's like wanting a town/area to grow.

The idea that "Win first... build it later" is the way to go is moronic.

Boise State vs. WSU spells it out. They have a f*cking history now on ESPN. Bowl Games. They were a f*cking JC... big sky... and they get national shout out. Could they have done that with mini-seats? If they had the smallest stadium in the conference? No freaking way.

We have less than Boise freaking State.

Just figure out the East End Zone with luxury hotel seating and we could PIMP level in the Pac-12.

We want to bitch about people not showing up to bad weather games? Change to a better covered design.

Now I am going to hear that we don't have the money. No "reason" to build because we don't need to.

We can't get enough of the REAL players when we have "boring" facilities.

We will be "stuck as is" until we change.

The biggest issue with WSU is too many people working for the school and alums are small thinkers with low ceilings.

I didn’t care for the way Neon Deon handled his first team meeting at CU. I would 100% be on board with him being the president at WSU if that is how he handled his first staff meeting. Fire them all. They are losers. Get new people in.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Can you imagine how loud and crazy a sold-out 56,000-seat Martin Stadium would be?!

Talk about a home-field advantage and a selling point to recruits

Fck your 56,000 seat stadium. It needs to be bigger. You are the small thinker, low ceiling Im talking about. Holy tap dancing Moses. Wtf does having a 56,000 seat stadium do? It’s still the smallest in the league. And that’s a selling point? Nope.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Fck your 56,000 seat stadium. It needs to be bigger. You are the small thinker, low ceiling Im talking about. Holy tap dancing Moses. Wtf does having a 56,000 seat stadium do?

Ok, thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected on expanding on 56k.

Since 56,000 is small thinking, low ceiling, what would be the capacity you would recommend?

 

[Cougini5591]

Fck your 56,000 seat stadium. It needs to be bigger. You are the small thinker, low ceiling Im talking about. Holy tap dancing Moses. Wtf does having a 56,000 seat stadium do? It’s still the smallest in the league. And that’s a selling point? Nope.

I don't think 56,000 is really a right/wrong answer.

Hell... we could have 30,000 and be alright...

IF...

We had the stupid high tech mega screens, loudest speaker systems, #1 training facilities, etc...

If we could ever be truly unique and awesome to where other schools couldn't match, then we could battle.

Actually, Pullman getting a real airport is a start.

Here's one for you...

If we paid 10 ex NFL Hall of Famers to be at every game... how many people would show? How many "better" players would committed? How many more games would ESPN consider doing?

I know it's not real. It's the concept

 

[BiggsCoug]

Ok, thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected on expanding on 56k.

Since 56,000 is small thinking, low ceiling studs, what would be the capacity you would recommend?

North of whatever Oregon has.

Simply getting large enough to be at the bottom of the league, where you already are, isn’t going to help.

Maybe the goal should be to get all of the top 20 players in state on campus for a visit? Whatever it takes to at least get the best in state kids to visit the school. Then, whatever it takes to sign half of them. Whatever those facilities look like, that’s where it STARTS.

20 years to break ground on a warehouse? Not good enough.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I don't think 56,000 is really a right/wrong answer.

Hell... we could have 30,000 and be alright...

IF...

We had the stupid high tech mega screens, loudest speaker systems, #1 training facilities, etc...

If we could ever be truly unique and awesome to where other schools couldn't match, then we could battle.

Actually, Pullman getting a real airport is a start.

Here's one for you...

If we paid 10 ex NFL Hall of Famers to be at every game... how many people would show? How many "better" players would committed? How many more games would ESPN consider doing?

I know it's not real. It's the concept

If your idea is to have a stadium at 30,000 seats, which is maybe 1,000 seats bigger than now, but the concept is to be overwhelming with everything else that kids from SoCal are dying to come up and see it…. Im listening.

Fck your old HOF’ers. No one cares.

4 star kids go to 4 star schools. WSU is not a 4 star school. It took a celebrity coach to sign consistent 3 star kids. If you want top talent you must have top facilities, top coaches and top whatever else.

 

[etowncoug]

Our problem isn't stadium capacity, our problem is we don't have enough demand for the limited seats we have.

 

[Cougini5591]

Our problem isn't stadium capacity, our problem is we don't have enough demand for the limited seats we have.

The argument/discussion here is about how to create something that creates the demand.

Not to speak for Biggs, but I believe that we can't really become "big time" by simply hoping for luck.

We have had the winning seasons before and it didn't make us the preferred choice for the big time players. Not significantly enough anyway.

Sales pitch to players is everything. How are we seriously going to go after studs with a stadium that's just above Big Sky?

If we ever figure it out... spend money to get big name coaches... spend money to get big time facilities... spend money to get big time players...

Those are the teams making it happen.

Until then, we are a 6 to 7 win team begging to stay in a "real" conference.

 

[Coug90]

Ok, thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected on expanding on 56k.

Since 56,000 is small thinking, low ceiling studs, what would be the capacity you would recommend?

30K empty seats for at least 1/2 the home games apparently. Solid fiscal plan.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The argument/discussion here is about how to create something that creates the demand.

Not to speak for Biggs, but I believe that we can't really become "big time" by simply hoping for luck.

We have had the winning seasons before and it didn't make us the preferred choice for the big time players. Not significantly enough anyway.

Sales pitch to players is everything. How are we seriously going to go after studs with a stadium that's just above Big Sky?

If we ever figure it out... spend money to get big name coaches... spend money to get big time facilities... spend money to get big time players...

Those are the teams making it happen.

Until then, we are a 6 to 7 win team begging to stay in a "real" conference.

The problem is eturd. UCLA doesnt fill the Rose Bowl. SC doesnt fill the Colesium. The uw doesnt fill their dump. Hell, most of the teams in the league dont ever sell out or even close.

Wtf is the standard for WSU to fill their stadium to justify having a bigger stadium?

The rest of the league doesnt give a shit if its full or not. What they give a shit about is having it to point out how much better they are than WSU. And its worked for decades now.

WSU is better off without eturd. He makes WSU worse.

 

[Coug90]

Biggsy might know more about stadium sizes than about anyone here, and he's suggested before that WSU should expand Martin Stadium to around 55K.

Either way, that capacity couldn't hurt in the Pac-12 or a new-and-improved Big 12

He doesn’t. If we can’t sell out a 32K stadium we aren’t selling out a 56K stadium. It’s math. Quit stroking his balls, maybe he will pony up and come to a few more games.

 

[etowncoug]

He doesn’t. If we can’t sell out a 32K stadium we aren’t selling out a 56K stadium. It’s math. Quit stroking his balls, maybe he will pony up and come to a few more games.

A more interesting question would be, "a rich friend of the university wants to put $100 million into athletics, how do you put it to work"? I don't think expansion would be the wisest use of resources but I'd here an argument.

It's easy to overlook what the amateur model did to college football for 50+ years. NIL is going to shift where those dollars get spent quickly and what recruits are looking for. Kids are going to want adequate facilities/training to get them to the next level and then they are going to want cold hard cash. If our collective was handing out $50 million a year we'd all surprised at just how appealing our stadium and facilities were to 4-5 star recruits.

 

[Coug90]

A more interesting question would be, "a rich friend of the university wants to put $100 million into athletics, how do you put it to work"? I don't think expansion would be the wisest use of resources but I'd here an argument.

It's easy to overlook what the amateur model did to college football for 50+ years. NIL is going to shift where those dollars get spent quickly and what recruits are looking for. Kids are going to want adequate facilities/training to get them to the next level and then they are going to want cold hard cash. If our collective was handing out $50 million a year we'd all surprised at just how appealing our stadium and facilities were to 4-5 star recruits.

I don’t give a shit what the $$ amount is, expansion is a stupid use of resources regardless when you can’t sell the seats you have. I love big stadiums, 70, 80, 90K people going ape shit together is awesome. Adding seats in Martin is adding empty metal. Period. It’s dumb. I’ve bought tickets for active military and they don’t get used. You can’t give tix away. When 35K is getting sold out on a regular basis add 10K. It’s not. Don’t tell me otherwise because it’s BS.

 

[longtimecoug]

I don’t give a shit what the $$ amount is, expansion is a stupid use of resources regardless when you can’t sell the seats you have. I love big stadiums, 70, 80, 90K people going ape shit together is awesome. Adding seats in Martin is adding empty metal. Period. It’s dumb. I’ve bought tickets for active military and they don’t get used. You can’t give tix away. When 35K is getting sold out on a regular basis add 10K. It’s not. Don’t tell me otherwise because it’s BS.

typical WSU thinking, this is the attitude that has kept us where we are

 

[BiggsCoug]

He doesn’t. If we can’t sell out a 32K stadium we aren’t selling out a 56K stadium. It’s math. Quit stroking his balls, maybe he will pony up and come to a few more games.

This poster supports rapists.

 

[BiggsCoug]

typical WSU thinking, this is the attitude that has kept us where we are

WSU is better off without shitbag fans like this.

That poster supports rapists. He is a shitbag.

 

[Observer11]

Cougs can’t fill the existing stadium as is

And out of nowhere another 20,000 fans are going to show up and fill a 50,000 seat stadium? From where are these new Cougar fans going to suddenly become engaged enough to change their weekend habits?

That’s some creative forecasting. Beyond Moosian, in fact.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Cougs can’t fill the existing stadium as is

And out of nowhere another 20,000 fans are going to show up and fill a 50,000 seat stadium? From where are these new Cougar fans going to suddenly become engaged enough to change their weekend habits?

Bar too low. Think bigger (or Biggsier if you like)

Fck your 56,000 seat stadium. It needs to be bigger. You are the small thinker, low ceiling Im talking about. Holy tap dancing Moses. Wtf does having a 56,000 seat stadium do? It’s still the smallest in the league. And that’s a selling point? Nope.

Wtf is the standard for WSU to fill their stadium to justify having a bigger stadium?

The rest of the league doesnt give a shit if its full or not.