Oregon State showing how it's done
- Thread starter How_did_this_happen?
- Start date
You can see it in their body language. Ours is more akin to seriously sedated zombies, Gabe Marks being the exception.
Nor are we, nor were we prior to the Apple Cup. But the team WE just played likely is.
And we did handle the rich Ducks pretty handily, ourselves.
My point is that OSU plays their wealthy instate rival with a passion and energy we lack. Both WSU and UW were top 25 teams. We should do better vs them.
I get that and actually agree with you that we should have come out with more passion and fire.
I just still don't think the Civil War/Apple Cup comparison is particularly apt in this case.
We faced a mutt team who are a legit top five in the nation team. They had superior athletes across the board and were superbly prepared.
They came out with the pedal to the metal and essentially curb stomped us from the get go. We were on our heels on defense from the opening drive. And the wheels essentially came off the offense from the Morrow fumble onwards.
Yeah, we seriously should have come out with more passion and intensity. Absolutely. No argument from me there, at all.
But our defense had gaping inadequacies that no amount of passion and intensity could overcome. And their defense was the best we saw all season long.
We may have been a top 25 team but they were totally in another class on that day.
Contrast all that with OSU facing an Oregon team reeling amidst their worst season in many a year. Much easier to stay pumped up and play with passion against a team you match up pretty well against. And especially so against a team that hasn't exactly shown their own "staying power" in many games this year.
So I just felt the analogy between the Civil War game and the Apple Cup didn't really hold water because of the whole picture, not just the "have vs have not" scenario.
Not trying to be argumentative. Like I said, I agree we absolutely needed to punch back and play with more fire and intensity.
But I've seen those situations many times over the years............when the snowball starts rolling down the hill, sometimes it gets so big it crushes everything in its path, no matter what sort of passion is involved.
Go Cougs
UW is much, much better than you're giving credit to. We closed the season at Colorado and against a Husky playoff team. What team in the Nation played harder consecutive games than that? Especially to close a season. Surprised more people aren't talking about that. We ended the season against the 2 best teams in our league; both National top-10 teams. Brutal scheduling and a good measuring rod moving forward.
We weren't a great team this season, but we were better than 7 other conference teams. Maybe 8. Let's talk about how we can better rather than the sky is falling. As of today, we're a good P12 program. Don't forget that.
We weren't a great team this season, but we were better than 7 other conference teams. Maybe 8. Let's talk about how we can better rather than the sky is falling. As of today, we're a good P12 program. Don't forget that.
I dunno there's examples all the time of teams beating the tar out of teams that are actually better. They are called upsets, and they happen with regularity in college football. Particularly when the upsetting team is playing at home and the crowd gives them an edge.
It would have taken a near perfect effort to defeat UW the way they are playing...they are solid across the board and really dialed in, however, they could have been had. We completely crapped the bed in just about every phase of the game...coaches and players. Sometimes that atmosphere can push you to be greater than you imagined you can, and sometimes you think to much and get run over...the latter obviously happened.
But to sit here and say we couldn't beat that UW team in a HOME game when we are a legit top 25 team with a chance to win the conference is akin to throwing in the towel. F That. We need to move on, but I hope the players AND coaches who are back next year realize the opportunity that was blown and do something about it in the offseason. If they aren't thinking that way, we might as well start forfeiting the AC, because we are never gonna win it.
Obviously upsets happen. But they don't usually happen to teams who "solid across the board AND REALLY DIALED IN". Usually it's when the "better" team isn't "dialed in", for whatever reason. Or sometimes, it happens when the underdog plays out of their minds. Neither happened Friday.
No one is saying there's "no way" we could have beaten the mutts on Friday. But, you're absolutely correct that, the way they were playing, it would have taken a near perfect effort....on that particular day.
Next year's Apple Cup will be a new day and I'm already hoping we come out and take it to them from the start, winning going away. Even if they have another top ranked team.
It's not always easy being a Coug fan but it's damn well worth it.
Keep the faith!
Go Cougs!
I know they're our rival and my subjectivity is probably going to be questioned...
But you're like the fourth person to tell me UW is much much better than they're credited. Honestly, they're good, but I don't feel like I'm watching anything special. Chip Kelly Oregon's teams....I felt there was some magic there. Bama...magic. I just don't see it with this UW team. Maybe that's my crimson colored glasses fogging it up for me, but I don't think they're THAT good. Are they worthy of a top 10 ranking...yes. Are they national title contenders? I really don't think so (and yes, I know...they're CFP ranking will potentially tell me otherwise).
"two best teams in the league?" Really? Hmmmm, seems like there was one team that beat them both. Yes they are good teams, but don't overstate your case to get away from what should be the main takeaway of those 2 losses: Grinch isn't getting the job done, nor can he. You want to keep making those excuses? Fine, copy your above words and paste 'em somewhere, cuz you're going to need them next year. Get rid of grinch, find a guy that can attract AND DEVELOP top-notch D-players and you'll win your share of games when the offense doesn't show up, or when you lose a key player. But with this poorly functioning shell of a D, the cougs will keep losing to the same teams.
Yep. Any WSU fan should be well-versed on the difference a really good QB can make. There is little doubt now that SC is the best team in the conference. It proved it by beating both the other candidates.
Oh calm down. The two best teams, in the point I was making, are the two division winners. Yes, I would seed USC #1, but the divisions are won by your body of work.
I've already posted my concerns about our defense throughout the season, and at least 5 times following the Apple Cup. When we hired Leach, we were hiring an offensive minded head coach who runs a disciplined program (in terms of training), but a guy who leaves the defense exclusively up to his coordinator. I have no problem with firing Grinch, but it's not going to happen. Not this year.
I get your frustration, but we are not USC. The glass half full side of this is that we have a coach who seemingly likes Pullman and who I have complete confidence in offensively. Yes, elite defenses can slow us down, but we still had a legit opportunity to score 30+ on UW. The defensive side of the ball is a train wreck, and I don't know what we can do about it this season. We won't fire Grinch this year.
I hope that Grinch returns for another season. The defense looked bad at times but their overall season effort was a good one.
Well, like I said, the "two best teams" are not the division winners. Just as important as the body of work is the quirks of that year's scheduling, and personnel changes, injuries, etc. But the even larger point is that, unless you like these kinds of situations (where WSU is again, on the outside looking in, as far as good bowls go), you need to get a real DC. Grinch is a kid, and reminds me of Justin Wilcox, a green guy who was in over his head at SC. And getting an up and coming DC is a lot easier, and pays off a lot more, than trying to start the whole thing from scratch. Leach's problem may be he's just too stubborn to ever admit he could made a bad hire, but after watching how fundamentally BAD the cougar defense actually is, it's clear to me that this is more than just not having the athletes, it's a systemic flaw. The kids aren't developing. Just like they weren't under wilcox or kiffin, sr. So I think that Leach knows enough tough Texas folks that he could lure someone from down there and turn it around.
Air Raid is just not consistent enough to be able to depend on always outscoring everyone, so you need a defense that can do a good, dependable job when the Air Raid doesn't show up that day. And WSU could afford this, it's not a matter of WSU "not being SC," that is irrelevant. You don't need a Clancy P, you just need someone better than the green kid you have
69th in total D, 56th in scoring D? By any definition that is not "good." USC's d is barely "good," and it's close to a TD better each game. I think with a good DC cougs could easily improve 10-15 notches on the ladder. That would likely win them one, maybe even two games a season. That's not bad, considering the money spent for a DC.
EDIT: After another quick scan of the stats, it looks like every single team that even has a CHANCE of going to the CFP is in the top 13 in scoring defense. That says it all. You are as elite as your defense. Period. link
2 years after being a complete dumpster fire on defense though? The defense has improved dramatically since Grinch took over. And two years in a row now the defense has been in the upper half of the league at producing turnovers, which is Grinchs game.
I'm not saying Grinch is the next Muschamp, but I think it's a little hasty to start talking about firing him. Again, who else is out there that can turn this group into a top 15 defense? Because I see D Lineman that aren't big and physical enough and linebackers that are too slow to compete with the talent of UW.
I don't think Grinch is underperforming or performing exceptionally at this point given his body of work so far, but he's been good enough to give him some more time.
Too late. SC has made up his mind and Grinch is a disaster. No two ways about. Off with his head, immediately.
All of that may be true, but WSU is not firing Grinch this year. Even at the biggest programs, you see situations where you start to recognize things about your coaches, but timing doesn't allow you to fire them. LSU hung onto Les Miles 2 years longer than they should have. Oregon knew Helfrich was the wrong guy at the end of last season. ASU *should* fire Graham this season. How long will UCLA hang onto Mora?
Grinch was credited for the massive defensive turnaround last season, and throughout our winning streak this year. Was it fools gold? Maybe, but we lack talent on defense also. Again, Leach isn't going to fire him after back-to-back 8-4 seasons. If we stink on defense again next year, Grinch will be put on the hot seat.
If we go 8-4 next season I don't think Grinch will be on the Hot seat nor do I think he should be. I do believe our shortcomings are more about talent and I think if the JC LBs had materialized we would have been better on defense. Would be great if we had more speed at LB and hopefully those twins get their academics in order and finally get into WSU .
