CML in a hyper liberal school? Square peg meets round hole. Would inevitably result in some amusement though.
OT: Mel Tucker to MSU
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On a personal level, I think this is way overblown. Leach would get along fine at CU and CU would love Leach if he won. Leach likes to debate, so I do not think there would be a problem.
In the abstract, people of different political parties do not care for each other. But, when people actually meet each other or work with each other, you don't often see hate.
Every time someone posts something like this, I take it as evidence that the person posting this is a complete idiot. Liberals definitely have some silly ideas, but "conservatives" are the enemy of free thought and logic these days. I choose to identify as neither because both camps at the extreme are more worried about their "team" than what's actually best for our country.
Says the guy with a thought that he just posted freely on this message board.
Yes, unhinged flaming liberals don't allow for free thought. I agree. Since the overwhelming majority of liberals are not unhinged or flaming, you can pretty much say anything you want as long as you follow the rule that has always been the case, "Don't be a dick."
You do realize that progressive people feel the same way about conservatives in rural areas or in conservative states. You are kidding yourself if you believe it only goes one way.
There's no doubt that my viewpoint is tinged by living in Kansas. I'm sure that there are plenty of liberals that are close minded. Where I live, we had a brief period where any discussion of compromise with the "libtards" was shouted down as weakness and failure and it bordered on violence. Things have moderated a bit as people realized how stupid the Tea Party really was.....but Trump has created an entirely different cult of personality that makes expression of views difficult. What I love about Kansas the most is the people like my office manager, a devout catholic who likes to think of himself as a good person, knows that Trump is the antithesis of christian behavior but holds his nose and supports Trump because "it's good for the economy". Money before all else is pretty disgusting....but that's the world we live in and it's the primary foundation of the Republican Party right now.
It's sad to me that I have to be very careful how I express moderate viewpoints where a client might see it without fear that my boss would reprimand me for putting the company in harm's way. I have an idiot client who came into the office a couple weeks ago wearing a MAGA hat. I would have really liked to express my displeasure with him, because the reality is that the state of Kansas hated Trump in 2016 and 77% of Kansans voted for someone other than Donald Trump in the Republican Caucus. I stood in line for three hours listening to people talk about how disgusting and immoral that Trump was.....and now......those same cocksuckers are wearing MAGA hats and chanting his name. It's pretty disgusting.
I enjoy the fact that my wife and I have great jobs, a nice house at an affordable price, good schools for my kids, an easy commute to work, a central location that's easy to vacation from and neighbors, outside of some stupid political leanings, that are very friendly but I'm eagerly looking forward to retirement when my wife and I start looking at other places to live. My parents moved to the middle of nowhere Washington when I was a kid because they got tired of interacting with humanity. I understand why they wanted to have more control over that interaction.
Interesting discussion. My wife and I retired and moved from Oregon to the Midwest mainly to be near our son and grandkids but also felt our moderate views were no longer in step with the extremely progressive Portland area and prevailing general political view statewide (at least the west side of Oregon). It wasn't enough to be moderate anymore, it felt as if we needed to be ultra liberal and hateful of conservative Republicans or we would be considered out of touch with the rest of the population. I have voted for nearly as many Ds as Rs over the years. A number of moderate Republicans have been good and decent candidates for statewide office but get trounced in Oregon elections just because they aren't progressive enough. It's true that the state I now reside in is largely conservative & Republican, but our moderate views don't seem to be frowned upon by the far right the way we felt in Oregon by the far left.
Glad Cougar
What you wrote is exactly what liberals believe about discussions with conservatives, except it is the conservative that are doing the shouting down. For your premise to be true, that would mean that minorities, people of color, etc., feel comfortable speaking out and giving their opinion. They don't.
The thing is, a lot of this is just labeling people to pit people against each other when our true differences are relatively minor. We all want to be safe. We all want to have money to put a roof over our heads and put food on the table. We all want to not go bankrupt if we or someone in our family has health problems. Etc., etc., etc.
There is a saying that "The squeaky wheel gets the oil." Yes, in the media, we hear the person with the loudest bullhorn, but the overwhelming majority of people want the things I wrote above.to be good citizens and not hurt other people.
There is a saying that "The squeaky wheel gets the oil." Yes, in the media, we hear the person with the loudest bullhorn, but the overwhelming majority of people want the things I wrote above.to be good citizens and not hurt other people.
Which of those two has more population, more representation, and more media coverage?
FFS, would you take your political name calling somewhere else? This is a football board.
You’re obviously not smart enough to figure out the Reply button but I’ll go ahead and assume this was targeted at me. In response, I’ll say don’t be an a-hole, and welcome to ignore-land.
Agree with the comments that liberals can certainly be just as bad as conservatives. For me, one of my great frustrations as an engineer was dealing with environmental regulations where I had to justify putting a water quality treatment pond in place of a “riparian stream” that had been farmed through for the past 50+ years. Liberals can be pretty stupid too.
EDIT: When I say justify....I mean that I had the Army Corps of Engineers suggest that my client should pay $125,000 for the right to install a water quality treatment pond to treat the runoff from a new commercial site because the pond was located in a "riparian stream" that only carried water when it rained and that farmers had plowed through for the past 50 years. Pesticides, fertilizers and other contaminants were fine....but treated stormwater? OMG....the horror!
EDIT: When I say justify....I mean that I had the Army Corps of Engineers suggest that my client should pay $125,000 for the right to install a water quality treatment pond to treat the runoff from a new commercial site because the pond was located in a "riparian stream" that only carried water when it rained and that farmers had plowed through for the past 50 years. Pesticides, fertilizers and other contaminants were fine....but treated stormwater? OMG....the horror!
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You've never seen a Trump rally on TV......or the type of people that hang out at Trump rallies. I've seen one of my co-workers shaking in rage at the idea that background checks for guns should be implemented. I have been yelled at by a Tea Party loon for suggesting that trickle down economics doesn't work (it doesn't and never has). I've been called an associate of Hitler for asking an abortion rights a$$hole to move their truck covered with pictures of aborted fetuses out of my neighborhood. I live in a town where conservatives have planted bombs at abortion clinics and murdered an abortion doctor.....IN A CHURCH. I've seen the descendants of Russian immigrants rant and rave that stinking Mexicans need to go back to where they came from.
Our friend roy is very quick to label anyone that isn't 100% in lockstep as a "closet liberal" because it's easier to be an asshole if you can find a way to define someone as a member of the other "TEAM" because if anything, modern politics is a sport where the fanatics of each team are willing to be hypocritical as long as it's in support of their "TEAM".
For me, I don't want to see a situation where democrats control the House, Senate and Presidency....because I don't believe that would be a good thing for our country but I also will be ashamed if Trump is re-elected this year, because I've never seen a President who is more pathetic and disgusting than Trump. Whether you liked their politics, George Bush, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were men that you knew that you could sit down and have a beer with and enjoy the conversation. Nobody looks forward to having a beer with Trump because they are going to enjoy the conversation. Our government has always had checks and balances to make sure that extremists of any kind will find it difficult to screw things up. Right now, it feels that so many people are so worried about their R and D jerseys that our country is in danger of imploding.
You've never seen a Trump rally on TV......or the type of people that hang out at Trump rallies. I've seen one of my co-workers shaking in rage at the idea that background checks for guns should be implemented. I have been yelled at by a Tea Party loon for suggesting that trickle down economics doesn't work (it doesn't and never has). I've been called an associate of Hitler for asking an abortion rights a$$hole to move their truck covered with pictures of aborted fetuses out of my neighborhood. I live in a town where conservatives have planted bombs at abortion clinics and murdered an abortion doctor.....IN A CHURCH. I've seen the descendants of Russian immigrants rant and rave that stinking Mexicans need to go back to where they came from.
You really sound like you are a angry liberal, Kansas is pretty conservative. Maybe you are a bit outnumbered there.
"abortion rights" is a pro-abortion moniker, where as pro-life opposes abortion. I think you have those terms mixed up.
You really sound like you are a angry liberal, Kansas is pretty conservative. Maybe you are a bit outnumbered there.
"abortion rights" is a pro-abortion moniker, where as pro-life opposes abortion. I think you have those terms mixed up.
You are right....I was typing on my phone and didn't get it right. Pro-abortion a$$hole. They parked a truck near the entrance of my neighborhood in the hopes that the neighbors would force George Tiller's secretary to quit her job. Didn't work....so they murdered him in a church a few years ago.
Again, I love it when people like you feel the need to label anyone who doesn't agree with them. Liberals can be clueless idiots who try to shout down differing viewpoints....but conservatives can be just as bad...and too often, they are the ones who escalate things to actual violence. That co-worker shaking with rage that I mentioned? He doesn't work with me anymore, but he told me that he would gladly murder me (or anyone else) that tried to touch his guns. The irony? I wasn't talking about taking his guns, but he wanted to threaten to kill someone to make his point, so he was willing to make up stuff to justify his rage.
Yeah, I've never seen a Trump rally ... just a few brief clips on the news. Some of those experiences you describe sound horrible ... I can appreciate your perspective, especially living among that.
I went from centrist to pretty far left once I got ahold of some books and history and political theory in college. As I've gotten older I've moderated some, less because my core positions have changed and more because I've gained more and more respect for the power of institutions, for good or ill, and the care required in changing around the operating principles or incentives in large scale systems. I'll disagree with people on all sorts of principles, but where I'll ultimately come down on something depends on who shows me that they best understand the way the systems being discussed are NOW, so that they have a somewhat practical grip on what can be done to improve them later. I have my ideological positions, but they have to be tempered by, you know, reality. A fair chunk of the population can't even agree on what that is anymore, and it screws up the ability to govern.
Population across the USA is fairly even. Representation is fairly even. I am not sure how to answer a media question. It is more complicated and nuanced that one word or sentence answer. It even goes way beyond left and right. It is about money and access.
Look at Bloomberg parachuting into the Dem race and pouring billions into advertising, bypassing every traditional organizational foundation in favor of just putting his name everywhere people look, because he can. Crazily enough it might work
A fair amount of the population is uneducated and uninformed which is why we have people yelling “flaming liberal” when 90 % of them don’t know what flaming or liberal even mean.
Politics shouldn’t be a team sport but the two party system we have lends it to that, and you have the worlds biggest (and dumbest) narcissist throwing lighter fluid on it...ta da! Welcome to America 2020!
Tribal signifiers have become more important to a lot of people than their pocketbooks or other metrics. Tribalism is great in sports, and terrible when you're trying to decide what kind of a world you want to live in, because it blinds you to bigger picture questions about unintended consequences or what even what counts as valuable or not, factual or not. It's the great triumph of those that keep lining their pockets at the expense of the broader population: when there's enough noise, the signal gets lost, and if people get emotionally drawn into the noise, then the signal doesn't even matter anymore
Agree 100%. The thing that's important for everyone to remember is that too much of anything is usually a bad thing. A society that is 100% capitalism with no socialist values is doomed to revolution as the oppressed at the bottom of the pyramid begun to fight back. Capitalism by it's very nature creates winners and losers. A society that leans too far into the socialist realm runs the risk of stifling innovation and results in a lower average quality of life in the long run. We should be striving for a balance between the two extremes. Tribalism makes it harder to find that right compromise.
Capitalism really isn't a zero sum game, go re read your b school books bud. It is actually the opposite, socialism picks winners and losers and the pickers are the chosen few of the bureaucracy.
Are you a minority or person of color? If not, you cant speak for them. Even if you were, it would be anecdotal, which is what all the rest of this is.
Im curious where you are coming up with this. Southern CA is over 50% hispanic; pretty sure theyve no issue being vocal. Same with AZ.
I recall Black Lives Matter rallies all over the country. They still happen occassionally.
Where is this jack boot on the throats of the oppressed that you speak of? Specifics, please.
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There's not an Antifa showing that doesnt go by without someone - usually a bystander - ending up in the hospital. This is coming straight from Antifa central, PDX.
Ill give you an example (that happens to be the norm) - and maybe the opposite happens where you are because its about who feels more empowered in their environment, I dont know - but the right fringe will plan a march and Antifa will show up to beat the shit out of them, because, and this is their words, they cant allow the fascists to spread their hate.
Ironic use of the word fascist, huh?
I dont know what Patriot Prayer (local right wing) has planned for their march - no one does because it devolves into a riot before it even begins. And yes, the Proud Boys group usually tags along with PP - its a free open space, whats PP going to do, fight the half dozen nazi idiots that show up?
I'm genuinely curious; do you have a right wing fringe group out there (Kansas) whos sole purpose is to use violence to squash opinions counter to theirs, who are given free reign to operate outside of the law and encite riots, destroy private property, and generally wreak havoc? (This is an accurate description of Antifa in PDX/Seattle). Honest question, because the national news doesnt cover it if it does.
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In the United States, voting counts more than vocality.
Hope this helps all those confused about the system of government and the fairly regular orderly transition of power in this country.
Hope this helps all those confused about the system of government and the fairly regular orderly transition of power in this country.
Antifa is obviously a bunch of loons at the fringe that deserves no respect. I don’t know anyone who supports their methods and actions.
For the other comment about “picking winners and losers”......that’s pretty hilarious. Capitalism in itself is absolutely a zero sum game in itself. Unions, monopoly busting, regulations and other things have been utilized over the past 100+ years to combat the inherent predatory nature of capitalism.
Don’t get it twisted though. I’m not saying that socialism is good....because unchecked socialism is worse by far. A balance is important to have a good system. Some social programs that help prevent the development of class/caste systems but enough entrepreneurial freedom to allow people room to be successful.
Yelling “Antifa sucks! Antifa sucks!” as the basis of your discussion means that you don’t really have any desire to encourage freedom of thought.
For the other comment about “picking winners and losers”......that’s pretty hilarious. Capitalism in itself is absolutely a zero sum game in itself. Unions, monopoly busting, regulations and other things have been utilized over the past 100+ years to combat the inherent predatory nature of capitalism.
Don’t get it twisted though. I’m not saying that socialism is good....because unchecked socialism is worse by far. A balance is important to have a good system. Some social programs that help prevent the development of class/caste systems but enough entrepreneurial freedom to allow people room to be successful.
Yelling “Antifa sucks! Antifa sucks!” as the basis of your discussion means that you don’t really have any desire to encourage freedom of thought.
That's absurd thinking capitalism is a zero sum game.
Through innovation, advances in technology, extraction of natural resources and fair trade, former "sh*tholes" are transformed into decent places. Even third world countries like Costa Rica benefit from the rising tide as a previously underdeveloped country now is a tourist destination benefiting from the rising tide of affluent countries and affordable travel.
Please to be identifying the net losers as the US, India, China, S. Vietnam, Russia, Brazil and any other number of countries have transformed over the past 100 years under various forms of capitalism. Arguably, China and Russia are better 'capitalists' now than communists. I contend they'd be even better without government intervention but that's another topic.
The only ones I know of is Venezuela under a brutal socialist regime or those countries who have opted to be theocracies.
I was replying to your notion that the right fringe is the one "usually" inciting violence, when what I see in person locally and on the national news is the opposite.
Unless you are wanting to count police as a right wing fringe group (I'd be willing to listen...), I just don't see it. But again, that's from my limited NW corner of the world.
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You need to go to N. Idaho, bruh. Daily cross burnings, white supremacist rallies, threats against minority businesses. Can't even drive down 195 without seeing marchers in white sheets and hoods.
I mean, I drove out to our lake place this weekend and damned near hit a couple. Thick like deer. And then they go into the stores and buy up all the Budweiser. It's a damn tragedy.
(sarcasm intended)
99.9 % of people don’t want to repeal the second amendment. Even those who are so far left they are damn near a U-turn sign. I have two teenagers. Keep your F’ing guns I could give two shits but don’t tell me it’s ok that someone without a background check or any mental stability is just fine going to Walmart and buying a semi automatic rifle with a 100 round clip to walk in to my kids school and murder them and 20 of their friends. That’s not 2nd amendment that’s insanity.
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