Voting sure does count. Controlling who gets to vote has become a battleground all over again
OT: Mel Tucker to MSU
- Thread starter SaveFerris
- Start date
It comes down to extending voting rights to those that traditionally haven't had them - no one is trying to take away voting rights from people who currently have them, to my knowledge.
Reinstating a felon's rights after a grace period - I'd be ok with that.
Granting non-citizens voting rights - not ok with that.
as I said, repealing the 2nd amendment is a key plank in the democrat platform as is open borders
We agree there. It's the frequent purging of the rolls and the ID requirement stuff, that sounds reasonable sometimes, but what about people that don't have cars, people that rent, students, folks on reservations without a street address, homeless people... they all have a right to vote that they often couldn't exercise if they tried. Washington state is better than most in this respect.
Handmarked paper ballots, available in polling stations allocated by population density (extra accommodations in rural areas where distance is a factor and some will have transportation challenges), counted in transparent and easily audited fashion. That shouldn't be controversial, and yet....
And remember to vote early, often and post-hummously as they do in King County.
(Sub in crimson ink for proper voter integrity)
wrong on both fronts. 99.9 % of people also don’t want “open borders”. But most of us realize it’s a waste to build a wall that costs billions to build yet can be easily scaled with a $5 contraption https://www.newsweek.com/juarez-smu...bar-ladders-scale-mexican-border-wall-1487469
Common sense > politics Keep doubling down on stupid though if it makes you feel tough!
I agree most americans are against open borders, but the democrat leadership isn't. California is a good model, sanctuary cities.
As far as rifles go, bats, hammers and knives do much more damage:
According to the FBI, more than five times as many people were killed in 2018 by knives, clubs and other cutting instruments than with rifles.
The metrics show that there were a total of 1,515 deaths by knives or other cutting instruments last year. Compare that against 297 people killed by rifles.
It’s a gap that widened significantly over 2017. In that year, the FBI said nearly four times as many people were stabbed to death as killed with rifles. During that year, the number of murders with rifles was around 400.
It gets better. More than 100 more people were killed with hammers and clubs in 2018 than were killed by rifles. There were 443 people killed with hammers, clubs, or other “blunt objects”.
We need to point out that the data isn’t just semiautomatic rifles – it’s ALL rifles, including bolt action, pump or lever action rifles as well.
As far as rifles go, bats, hammers and knives do much more damage:
According to the FBI, more than five times as many people were killed in 2018 by knives, clubs and other cutting instruments than with rifles.
The metrics show that there were a total of 1,515 deaths by knives or other cutting instruments last year. Compare that against 297 people killed by rifles.
It’s a gap that widened significantly over 2017. In that year, the FBI said nearly four times as many people were stabbed to death as killed with rifles. During that year, the number of murders with rifles was around 400.
It gets better. More than 100 more people were killed with hammers and clubs in 2018 than were killed by rifles. There were 443 people killed with hammers, clubs, or other “blunt objects”.
We need to point out that the data isn’t just semiautomatic rifles – it’s ALL rifles, including bolt action, pump or lever action rifles as well.
I think most Americans believe that immigration should be done properly and following existing laws.
The problem is that the information out there makes it hard to know what exactly the REAL problems are: we have an unprecedented number of immigrants crossing our mostly unsecured southern border. This is a fact. We have always welcomed our southern immigrants - also fact. Historically, they have been Mexican immigrants - fact.
Not so clear information: more immigrants are flocking north from further south seeking politcal assylum - true, but to what degree and does it move the needle? I believe getting real information here is tough because, well... people flat out lie and manipulate the numbers.
Also not clear: all border crossers are being inhumanely kept in 4x4 cells like caged dogs, without access to food, water, medicine, or other basic services. We've seen the cages. We know some families got separated. But how many? What percentage? Is this the norm or the exception? Again, there is so much conflicting information that its hard to form an intelligent opinion on such matters.
One last thing, and its going to be an ugly topic to discuss, but I think its safe to say that everyone would like to help asylum seekers or immigrants, as long as it doesn't negatively affect them personally. And though they might not think about it that way, it ends up showing its face as xenophobia when in reality there is a somewhat solid base to the fear that: if we currently don't have enough resources in the system to provide essential services to the existing population, how is bringing in millions more impoverished people into the country going to make it any better? Like I said, ugly.
One obvious problem-the 2020 Census will include illegal aliens which may number up to 30 million.
The House of representatives apportions seats according to population, so the states with higher numbers-will be rewarded with more seats-robbing American citizens in other states of representation in congress.
Also the 1.5 trillion of federal tax dollars divided amongst the states , a larger share will go to those states with more people-including illegal aliens.
So you can see why California welcomes illegal immigration and breaks federal law by having sanctuary cities and refusing to cooperate with ICE.
The House of representatives apportions seats according to population, so the states with higher numbers-will be rewarded with more seats-robbing American citizens in other states of representation in congress.
Also the 1.5 trillion of federal tax dollars divided amongst the states , a larger share will go to those states with more people-including illegal aliens.
So you can see why California welcomes illegal immigration and breaks federal law by having sanctuary cities and refusing to cooperate with ICE.
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-death-stats-in-perspective-3303385
people are going to murder people. Nobody outside of a soldier on a battlefield needs a weapon that can discharge 100 rounds in a minute. I’m not coming over for thanksgiving if you killed your turkey with an AR 15
BTW if dear leader gets his kingdom, how long do you think you are keeping your guns? Autocrats/Tyrants don’t want common folk running around with weapons. The last thing they want is that threat. The second amendment will disappear as soon as a your King is crowned, guaranteed.
I think all of the bill of rights should be protected. I don't think we are in danger of Trump becoming a dictator for life either, that is silly. The guy can barely do his job with all of the sham investigations.
I do notice Liberals are becoming more and more unhinged by him though. I suspect that is from all of the media propaganda. If you just watched CNN uncritically and believed all of it, you may come to the same conclusions you have.
I do notice Liberals are becoming more and more unhinged by him though. I suspect that is from all of the media propaganda. If you just watched CNN uncritically and believed all of it, you may come to the same conclusions you have.
https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/04...ment-purposes-only-disclaimer_n_15727044.html
continue embracing a combination of WWF and Jerry Springer as your source for “News”. You can’t fix stupid.
I guess if you guys are going to keep this going, I'll take a turn. What the heck. I guess it is the slow sports season, earlier than expected. This looks more like a summer post string.
The guest worker programs with Mexico were largely scrapped when I was a boy. Both political sides had some factions who benefitted, so the situation was permitted to continue status quo. total failure of government and those of us who should have made a bigger stink about holding government accountable. Mexico is a hell hole for those without resources, which is the bulk of the population. There is no rule of law, and the intense draw of the US is such that the best...most courageous, most willing to work...make the trip, coyotes, risks and all. The organized crime elements take advantage of that flood to move their trickle of folks right along with them. The Mexican government benefits significantly, in several ways. One you may have thought of is the remittances sent back to Mexico by those working here to support family members in Mexico. Nice informal balance of trade. One you may not have thought of is the "pressure relief valve" effect of migration to the US by the same folks who, if forced to remain, would be most likely to push for change and challenge the elites who run the country. I lived along the Texas/Mexico border for a while; I'm convinced that the reason there has not been an insurrection on the south side of the Rio Grande is because the folks who would be the first into the breach are the same folks who cross the border illegally. There have been studies ad nauseam regarding the economic impact of illegal immigration; I'm pretty convinced after 30+ years in SoCal that it is a slight plus for the US if viewed strictly in economic terms. The immigrants themselves are more than a slight plus. The way they are victimized by the gangs on one hand and some employers on the other is the major social negative. 20 years ago there were concerns that the illegals could not speak openly to the police. Today their kids are the police. In the same way that my Irish immigrant forefathers were the police, firefighters, ambulance personnel and (to quote Tom Clancy) the glue that holds society together, today in SoCal that is the kids of the immigrants. It is working pretty well, all things considered, but if I were King (and I'm not applying for the job):
- reinstate the guest worker program so somebody can freely move back and forth to work in the agriculture, meat processing, dairy and other industries in which they are currently ubiquitous.
- along with the easier guest worker status comes more strict enforcement of the other border regulations.
- FBI focus on the gangs. They prey first and foremost on their countrymen, and the central americans are the worst.
- State operation of the bottom 30% of the school districts, who clearly can't run themselves. The state is certainly not fully competent, but the chances of their running the schools better than these districts is almost a slam dunk. That will be a political "no go", particularly since LA Unified is likely to be in that group. Education is the indisputable key to equal opportunity, and permitting slum school districts to continue (and I'd include both breakfast and lunch for all kids in these districts) is a failure of both society and government. While I'm at it as king I'd re-institute the school nurses of my early childhood, since that is the only medical care that a lot of these kids would receive. Put in an urgent care with no charge for students on every SoCal high school campus (with access from the elementary & jr high's within their boundaries) that falls in this bottom 30%, and include generic prescriptions from any local pharmacy. Urgent care is already the primary care delivery system for most of the lower socio-economic parts of SoCal, so this would be nothing radical; in fact it would probably be the easiest thing on this list to implement.
- I've mentioned Mexico repeatedly, but central america has more desperate populations, both virtuous and non-virtuous. The central americans have it worse, though, because the Mexican government discriminates openly against them in ways that we would never consider for people coming from south of our own border.
I have more, but that is enough for now. And bear in mind that this is not strictly a southern border situation. We have a much smaller but similar scenario in Washington with folks from asian countries coming across our border with BC. And yes, I have personal experience, and a first cousin with a cattle ranch right on the border. The standing border patrol advice (not to be quoted) north of Spokane to ranchers along the border is to be armed and ignore people they see coming across the cattle fence from BC. It was really bad 7-10 years ago; got better for a while; and is now trending the wrong direction again (my own theory is that Hong Kong's current situation is part of the reason, but I have not bothered to check further).
Long story short, much of the world wants to be in the US. Our government has totally dropped the ball on the immigration issue. We have minimal border control, and therefore end up with pot luck in terms of people. By and large, they are excellent citizens and consistent with our history. And once here, the concentration of illegals (by estimates I trust, about 20% of the SoCal population) is not well addressed in terms of education, health care, exploitation avoidance, or many of the other basics to have a functioning society. Despite that, their kids are by and large integrating successfully, though primarily due to education impediments many are on the lower end of the economic scale.
When I moved here in 1988 my family in WA wondered why I was living somewhere between Sodom and Gomorrah. I can tell you that based on the 5 cities in which I've lived, across the country, people are pretty much the same wherever you go. They treat you pretty much as you treat them. But the SNAFU'd immigration situation is a festering sore that is threatening to turn into gangrene, and our ignoring it is not in the country's interest.
Enough of the soapbox. I am not king and never will be. But civil society and a sane place for our children demands that we harass those who are bungling the situation.
The guest worker programs with Mexico were largely scrapped when I was a boy. Both political sides had some factions who benefitted, so the situation was permitted to continue status quo. total failure of government and those of us who should have made a bigger stink about holding government accountable. Mexico is a hell hole for those without resources, which is the bulk of the population. There is no rule of law, and the intense draw of the US is such that the best...most courageous, most willing to work...make the trip, coyotes, risks and all. The organized crime elements take advantage of that flood to move their trickle of folks right along with them. The Mexican government benefits significantly, in several ways. One you may have thought of is the remittances sent back to Mexico by those working here to support family members in Mexico. Nice informal balance of trade. One you may not have thought of is the "pressure relief valve" effect of migration to the US by the same folks who, if forced to remain, would be most likely to push for change and challenge the elites who run the country. I lived along the Texas/Mexico border for a while; I'm convinced that the reason there has not been an insurrection on the south side of the Rio Grande is because the folks who would be the first into the breach are the same folks who cross the border illegally. There have been studies ad nauseam regarding the economic impact of illegal immigration; I'm pretty convinced after 30+ years in SoCal that it is a slight plus for the US if viewed strictly in economic terms. The immigrants themselves are more than a slight plus. The way they are victimized by the gangs on one hand and some employers on the other is the major social negative. 20 years ago there were concerns that the illegals could not speak openly to the police. Today their kids are the police. In the same way that my Irish immigrant forefathers were the police, firefighters, ambulance personnel and (to quote Tom Clancy) the glue that holds society together, today in SoCal that is the kids of the immigrants. It is working pretty well, all things considered, but if I were King (and I'm not applying for the job):
- reinstate the guest worker program so somebody can freely move back and forth to work in the agriculture, meat processing, dairy and other industries in which they are currently ubiquitous.
- along with the easier guest worker status comes more strict enforcement of the other border regulations.
- FBI focus on the gangs. They prey first and foremost on their countrymen, and the central americans are the worst.
- State operation of the bottom 30% of the school districts, who clearly can't run themselves. The state is certainly not fully competent, but the chances of their running the schools better than these districts is almost a slam dunk. That will be a political "no go", particularly since LA Unified is likely to be in that group. Education is the indisputable key to equal opportunity, and permitting slum school districts to continue (and I'd include both breakfast and lunch for all kids in these districts) is a failure of both society and government. While I'm at it as king I'd re-institute the school nurses of my early childhood, since that is the only medical care that a lot of these kids would receive. Put in an urgent care with no charge for students on every SoCal high school campus (with access from the elementary & jr high's within their boundaries) that falls in this bottom 30%, and include generic prescriptions from any local pharmacy. Urgent care is already the primary care delivery system for most of the lower socio-economic parts of SoCal, so this would be nothing radical; in fact it would probably be the easiest thing on this list to implement.
- I've mentioned Mexico repeatedly, but central america has more desperate populations, both virtuous and non-virtuous. The central americans have it worse, though, because the Mexican government discriminates openly against them in ways that we would never consider for people coming from south of our own border.
I have more, but that is enough for now. And bear in mind that this is not strictly a southern border situation. We have a much smaller but similar scenario in Washington with folks from asian countries coming across our border with BC. And yes, I have personal experience, and a first cousin with a cattle ranch right on the border. The standing border patrol advice (not to be quoted) north of Spokane to ranchers along the border is to be armed and ignore people they see coming across the cattle fence from BC. It was really bad 7-10 years ago; got better for a while; and is now trending the wrong direction again (my own theory is that Hong Kong's current situation is part of the reason, but I have not bothered to check further).
Long story short, much of the world wants to be in the US. Our government has totally dropped the ball on the immigration issue. We have minimal border control, and therefore end up with pot luck in terms of people. By and large, they are excellent citizens and consistent with our history. And once here, the concentration of illegals (by estimates I trust, about 20% of the SoCal population) is not well addressed in terms of education, health care, exploitation avoidance, or many of the other basics to have a functioning society. Despite that, their kids are by and large integrating successfully, though primarily due to education impediments many are on the lower end of the economic scale.
When I moved here in 1988 my family in WA wondered why I was living somewhere between Sodom and Gomorrah. I can tell you that based on the 5 cities in which I've lived, across the country, people are pretty much the same wherever you go. They treat you pretty much as you treat them. But the SNAFU'd immigration situation is a festering sore that is threatening to turn into gangrene, and our ignoring it is not in the country's interest.
Enough of the soapbox. I am not king and never will be. But civil society and a sane place for our children demands that we harass those who are bungling the situation.
Hmm...where I live it's "racist" to not want open borders.
Hillary Clinton voted to build a "barrier" but for some reason that's not racist...but for some reason a "wall" is. Interesting.
Most people that I know that are opposed to the wall are pissed off that a group of people that complain about wasting government money helping the poor and/or illegal immigrants are excited about spending tens of billions on a wall that will prove ineffective. The wall is racist in the fact that it’s you saying that you’d rather spend money harming people than helping them.
I’m not a fan of “open borders” but I understand that a completely closed border is a fantasy that will never work. As mentioned above, a properly executed plan to control who comes in will be more effective than “NO MORE MEXICANS!”
Build the wall on the Californian border. Tax their residents 50% of their home’s sale price to leave.
A wall is an inanimate object. Unless and until someone interacts with it, it harms no one.
Mexico/Venezuela/et al shit governments harms these people. Its this kind of language that convolutes the issue and makes it hard to have an honest conversation about this and other topics.
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The wall in itself doesn't harm anyone....but the creation of that wall.....and other overly harsh restrictions to legal immigration are harmful to people. The dirty little secret is that our country "needs" low paying immigrant labor to fill a lot of jobs that Americans are too lazy and/or entitled to fill. I've watched American workers on construction crews and trust me, our country is up the creek without immigrant workers.
Because there is a "need", people are going to continue to come into our country, no matter what laws we institute or walls we build. The laws limit legal immigration to fill the need and the wall is going to empower the cartels and illegal organizations that are willing to traffic in human lives to make a buck. So, that Mexican husband and wife with three kids that are trying to sneak into the country to work as a maid and a grunt on a construction crew and seek a better life for their kids that die in the back of a box truck in the middle of the desert this summer are most definitely harmed by that wall. We could seek to provide worker programs to allow people to come into our country, work those menial jobs, and go home....but too many people prefer to live in the fantasy that there are millions of Americans lining up to dig ditches and clean toilets for for less than $10/hour when the truth is that you can't make a living doing that. And the other truth is that you already bitch about paying taxes. Paying living wages to construction employees is going to raise the cost of road construction. Are you willing to pay more taxes? All I see are people complaining already.
Something needs to give and yelling "STINKING MEXICANS ARE RAPISTS AND MURDERERS!" isn't the solution. Since the founding of our country, immigrant labor has been the backbone of our growth. Americans have denigrated and attacked the "new" immigrants for that entire time. Chinese and Irish immigrants in particular were treated harshly in the 1800's. Hell, we have a slew of insults geared around the Irish in particular. Discrimination and hateful treatment isn't new and it well never go away, but an intelligent discussion about how to actually deal with the situation will never include the chant, "BUILD THAT WALL! BUILD THAT WALL!". Anyone who doesn't think that the wall chants are racist is just lying to themselves. Again, the great irony is that my brother in law is the descendant of Russian immigrants and he is blind to the fact that if he's serious about people going back to where they came from.....his ass should be back in the Ukraine.
Illegal immigrants are not Irish or Italians who came to the country legally and obeyed the law.
The California model for the entire country doesn't look good unless you want to be the future Venezuela.
Also how is the wall a “harsh restriction on legal immigration” ? The wall has no effect on legal immigration
The California model for the entire country doesn't look good unless you want to be the future Venezuela.
Also how is the wall a “harsh restriction on legal immigration” ? The wall has no effect on legal immigration
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The delineation needs to be made between migrants and immigrants.
Reasonable people have no issue with migrants who provide services or labor that otherwise may be unfilled by natural-born or duly officiated citizens of this country. Guest worker programs are fabulous to that end, including proper documentation, authorization and payment of applicable payroll taxes.
Reasonable people do have issue with immigrants who enter the country illegally and then are afforded protections and resources that are otherwise not available to natural-born or duly officiated citizens of this country.
It's pretty simple. Follow the law and it's all good. Sneak in or bum rush the border, no bueno.
I think Mel Tucker will do well at MSU.
Oops, wrong thread? Sorry.
Glad Cougar
Oops, wrong thread? Sorry.
Glad Cougar
No matter how tall a wall you build, football coaches will find a way to get to locations that will pay them more. I’ll bet the same is true with illegal immigrants.
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who opposed the wall and losing their shit. Where were they when Hillary wanted to build a barrier?
And we do help people. It's called Legal immigration.
I'm all for it
I have never been a Hillary supporter but I would have been as opposed to a 30' wall regardless of the R or D next to their name. Only a fool thinks that a 30' wall in the middle of nowhere is going to stop illegal immigration. It's one of the greatest boondoggles of all time. We can't stop people from digging tunnels under the existing barriers we have along the border. Who thinks that a remote location won't be far easier? I'm a strong believer in identifying problem areas and adding secure fencing to funnel immigrants into easier to monitor zones but a nearly 2000 mile wall that's going to cost tens of billions to build and billions more to maintain isn't the solution.
And "legal immigration" is under attack by Trump right now. In November 2019, federal courts struck down his attempt to restrict legal immigration by up to 65% using executive orders and he's very publicly stated that he wants to dramatically reduce legal immigration. Now.....the truth is.....I'm fine with a small reduction in legal immigration. I don't believe that a child born on US soil to illegal immigrants should be a citizen by right. I would be fine with implementing more rules that focus on immigrants ability to contribute to our society. Some of Trump's policies are good....but he can't help but screw things up because he's so obsessed with his accomplishments being "yuge!" and "the greatest eva!".
No it isn't. Building a wall or a barrier in of itself is not racist. Build the wall. Let those who want to tunnel under it tunnel under it. The vast majority of objection is how inefficient the wall is in 2020.
What is "racist" is when a President elect says the Mexicans are sending us over their rapists and their criminals, as that is what Mexicans are primarily known for.
What is sad is how they have zero plan, separate parents from their kids, and think it is ok. It could be a niece of yours for crying out loud.
Maude you wouldn’t . If your niece is going to be harmed by a cartel you would do anything to save your niece .
where are you getting the cartel narrative ?
1 out of 3 inmates in federal prison is a illegal alien, were they all fleeing cartels ?
Wow....the delusions that people believe.....
Check out this link to see the actual breakdown of inmate citizenship in federal prisons: LINK
According to actual facts....rather than your fantasy world, 81% of people in Federal prisons are US citizens. Of course, if you repeat the lies enough, cross-link enough, you can create the illusions that your lies are the truth.
On December 21, the Department of Homeland Security released the Alien Incarceration Report for Fiscal Year 2017. The report discloses the number of confirmed and suspected foreign-born inmates in the custody of the federal prison system, which includes the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) and the U.S. Marshals Service (USMS).
DHS reported a total of 58,766 "known or suspected" aliens in the custody of federal authorities. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, there are 184,379 total federal inmates, meaning that almost 32 percent of all federal inmates are aliens. The number of aliens in federal custody has risen since the last report: At that time, the Justice Department estimated that there were 42,000 aliens, representing 24 percent of the federal prison population.
I know open borders are an important source of new voters and expand the social welfare state, but it would be nice if American citizens who are the victims of these criminals are considered for once.
DHS reported a total of 58,766 "known or suspected" aliens in the custody of federal authorities. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, there are 184,379 total federal inmates, meaning that almost 32 percent of all federal inmates are aliens. The number of aliens in federal custody has risen since the last report: At that time, the Justice Department estimated that there were 42,000 aliens, representing 24 percent of the federal prison population.
I know open borders are an important source of new voters and expand the social welfare state, but it would be nice if American citizens who are the victims of these criminals are considered for once.
First.....where's the link to the site where you got this from? I used the actual Bureau of Prisons website....not some horsecrap article on the internet.
Next....including incarcerated aliens at the border is pretty damned disingenuous and infers a danger that's not really there.
Finally, your little statement doesn't say that it's 1/3rd illegal aliens like you claimed. It says 32% are foreign born. That's a potentially huge modifier.
Immigrants accounted for more than 30 percent of the federal prison population and nearly all of them are confirmed or suspected illegal immigrants, the government said in a new report Tuesday.
The government said it had 57,820 immigrants in its prisons as of Dec. 31, Homeland Security and the Justice Department said in the joint report.
Nearly 20,000 other immigrants were held in pretrial detention by the U.S. Marshals Service, most of them in contracted facilities, costing the government $134 million for just three months. That works out to nearly $90 a day for each person in those contract facilities.
Washington Times
134 million cost for 3 months for housing criminals who are here illegally-
sounds like a win win situation !
The government said it had 57,820 immigrants in its prisons as of Dec. 31, Homeland Security and the Justice Department said in the joint report.
Nearly 20,000 other immigrants were held in pretrial detention by the U.S. Marshals Service, most of them in contracted facilities, costing the government $134 million for just three months. That works out to nearly $90 a day for each person in those contract facilities.
Washington Times
134 million cost for 3 months for housing criminals who are here illegally-
sounds like a win win situation !
I think it’s actually 1 in 5 but still a pretty big percentage. And that particular population which is less than 1 percent of the illegals in the country is more likely to have been working for the cartels than fleeing them. But I doubt that a wall is going to stop them. As long as the US provides customers for drugs, the drug smugglers will find a way to get them in. Some of them will get caught. It’s just a cost of doing business to the cartels.
People like myself are all for border security. The difference is do you use 1950’s tech or is there a better way to be explored .
I also lose my “stuff” when the project was sold as someone else paying for it and because that person is a developer he can bring it below cost even when someone else is paying for it . It was sold as easy squeeze to accomplish and four years later nothing
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