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OT: The jury has spoken here in Tacoma today...

ttowncoug

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Sep 9, 2001
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...one of the biggest overreaches by Inslee and Ferguson has gone down as: not guilty.

The background on this is Pierce County didn't want to or see the need to press charges on these cops. Inslee and his sideshow Bob buddy did. They have been handed a HUGE defeat.
 
...one of the biggest overreaches by Inslee and Ferguson has gone down as: not guilty.

The background on this is Pierce County didn't want to or see the need to press charges on these cops. Inslee and his sideshow Bob buddy did. They have been handed a HUGE defeat.
What? Explain please. What cops? Most of us don't live in Tacoma. I'm interested, but shit provide a link or some details.
 
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Yeah, based off the information provided in the article I wouldn't go so far as to say "murdered" him, but I certainly can't see describing them as the "good guys" by any stretch.

It seems that the actions they took lead to his death. A death that wouldn't have happened without their interaction with him. Not good. That's all I have to say about that
 
Hard to find unbiased reporting from the Seattle media
Maybe so. But what crime did this guy actually commit?

There is certainly good reason to no longer just trust law enforcement based off many examples of body cameras and coverups. Coverups that went unpunished for decades because cops were never doubted or held accountable.

Even AFTER this verdict I have to wonder if things really did go down as they alledge. Taihtsat
 
Ok I read the article. Thanks Kurt. And the good guys won? Where in Gawd's name does that come from? Please explain. They f-ing muredered him!
If I remember correctly, he had something like 4x the contributing dose of methamphetamine in his system when toxicology was done. When they look at drugs and the manner of death they determine wether the dose was lethal or if the manner in which the person died was contributed to by the drugs in the system. He was very very high on meth which contributed to his inability to calm down and eventually breath. He was in an excited delirium and had noted heart enlargement. His respiratory and cardiovascular system was messed up. I will not get into one side being good or bad. I wasn’t there and don’t really know all the stuff the cops did. But there were lots of extra variables that played into his death.
 
Yeah, based off the information provided in the article I wouldn't go so far as to say "murdered" him, but I certainly can't see describing them as the "good guys" by any stretch.

It seems that the actions they took lead to his death. A death that wouldn't have happened without their interaction with him. Not good. That's all I have to say about that
The coroner stated he had a fatal dose of meth in his system.
 
I can't breathe.
It’s a tough concept to imagine, but drugs, and especially powerful ones in heavy doses, really mess with your ability to respire. Throw in an enlarged heart on top of a near lethal dose of meth….tragic things happen when you are in an excited delirium and fighting police. They say aircraft crashes follow a Swiss cheese model. If enough holes line up in your protections, they fail. Bad heart, massive dose of meth, required restraint, still fighting, delirious, posed an obvious threat and had to be forcibly restrained… enough factors came into play.
 
It’s a tough concept to imagine, but drugs, and especially powerful ones in heavy doses, really mess with your ability to respire. Throw in an enlarged heart on top of a near lethal dose of meth….tragic things happen when you are in an excited delirium and fighting police. They say aircraft crashes follow a Swiss cheese model. If enough holes line up in your protections, they fail. Bad heart, massive dose of meth, required restraint, still fighting, delirious, posed an obvious threat and had to be forcibly restrained… enough factors came into play.
Isn't that what they are now saying about the guy in St Louis (???) that started all the riots? I seem to remember it now being reported that the the ME was pushed to saying it was due to the cops to hopefully avoid more riots, but he also had a more than lethal dose of the illegal drugs. Of course, the cop is now in the pen though, and was recently stabbed several times. Dang, I sure am getting bad at remembering names. :-(
 
Isn't that what they are now saying about the guy in St Louis (???) that started all the riots? I seem to remember it now being reported that the the ME was pushed to saying it was due to the cops to hopefully avoid more riots, but he also had a more than lethal dose of the illegal drugs. Of course, the cop is now in the pen though, and was recently stabbed several times. Dang, I sure am getting bad at remembering names. :-(
That was the guy in Minneapolis. He was on something too, but the knee in his neck was a direct cause of death - along with what I think they called “depraved indifference.” That cop deserves to do some time.
 
That was the guy in Minneapolis. He was on something too, but the knee in his neck was a direct cause of death - along with what I think they called “depraved indifference.” That cop deserves to do some time.
He had a high dose of fentanyl and it’s metabolites in his blood
 
He had a high dose of fentanyl and it’s metabolites in his blood
And IIRC, there was video of him saying he couldn't breath even in his car before they ever removed him. I could be wrong, but I think that was the case.
 
You don’t believe in justice?

The jury found the three Tacoma police officers charged in the death of Manuel Ellis not guilty on all charges on Thursday afternoon.

Funny how each member of the jury looked at the facts one way, the writer another yet you automatically dismiss each jury member in favor of the writers interpretation and opinions of what transpired.
 
You don’t believe in justice?

The jury found the three Tacoma police officers charged in the death of Manuel Ellis not guilty on all charges on Thursday afternoon.

Funny how each member of the jury looked at the facts one way, the writer another yet you automatically dismiss each jury member in favor of the writers interpretation and opinions of what transpired.

This non respect for authority is troubling, to say the least.
 
Don't the cops win about 99% of these cases to start with? The cops were acquitted in the Rodney King case? How is this different? Pretty damn tough to win a conviction against cops in "death in custody" cases -- all you need is one middle aged "fear the black man" white male jurer.
 
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Don't the cops win about 99% of these cases to start with? The cops were acquitted in the Rodney King case? How is this different? Pretty damn tough to win a conviction against cops in "death in custody" cases -- all you need is one middle aged "fear the black man" white male jurer.
Way to shit on Tacoma.

Good job.
 
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Murder implies premeditation. To me it seems at worst manslaughter. But given the coroner and toxicology reports showed he was on the brink of death due to substances along with physical changes to his body from substance use, it’s hard to blame the cops for anything other than contributing to a situation where he died. Im not sure how one comes to disagree with a coroner, toxicology, and a jury, due to articles. But here we are.
 
Murder implies premeditation. To me it seems at worst manslaughter. But given the coroner and toxicology reports showed he was on the brink of death due to substances along with physical changes to his body from substance use, it’s hard to blame the cops for anything other than contributing to a situation where he died. Im not sure how one comes to disagree with a coroner, toxicology, and a jury, due to articles. But here we are.
and given the guy allegedly assaulted the officers, was out of control, they were going to need to use some level of "force" to protect themselves. Cops deserve the opportunity to defend themselves as well.
 
Murder implies premeditation. To me it seems at worst manslaughter. But given the coroner and toxicology reports showed he was on the brink of death due to substances along with physical changes to his body from substance use, it’s hard to blame the cops for anything other than contributing to a situation where he died. Im not sure how one comes to disagree with a coroner, toxicology, and a jury, due to articles. But here we are.
Because that's what the articles lead/want them to do.

Technically, though...contributing to the situation can still be murder or manslaughter. If something you did to the person sped up the process of death, or contributed directly to their death...you still reach the threshold. Remember, Kevorkian was convicted and put away.
 
You don’t believe in justice?

The jury found the three Tacoma police officers charged in the death of Manuel Ellis not guilty on all charges on Thursday afternoon.

Funny how each member of the jury looked at the facts one way, the writer another yet you automatically dismiss each jury member in favor of the writers interpretation and opinions of what transpired.

It’s a tough concept to imagine, but drugs, and especially powerful ones in heavy doses, really mess with your ability to respire. Throw in an enlarged heart on top of a near lethal dose of meth….tragic things happen when you are in an excited delirium and fighting police. They say aircraft crashes follow a Swiss cheese model. If enough holes line up in your protections, they fail. Bad heart, massive dose of meth, required restraint, still fighting, delirious, posed an obvious threat and had to be forcibly restrained… enough factors came into play.
I got that but how many times has the guy from Tacoma said he can’t breath and died soon thereafter ?
 
and given the guy allegedly assaulted the officers, was out of control, they were going to need to use some level of "force" to protect themselves. Cops deserve the opportunity to defend themselves as well.
Was the video on the cops showing what happened ?
 
Don't the cops win about 99% of these cases to start with? The cops were acquitted in the Rodney King case? How is this different? Pretty damn tough to win a conviction against cops in "death in custody" cases -- all you need is one middle aged "fear the black man" white male jurer.
Didn't this jury find the cops "Not Guilty"? That means they all agreed, not just one middle aged white juror, otherwise it would have been a hung jury.

As for winning about 99% of these cases, I think that pretty darn close to 99% of these cases could have been avoided if the criminal would have just followed the officers instructions.
 
This non respect for authority is troubling, to say the least.
Well… have you ever been in a situation with a cop ? And other cops are around and they don’t say or do anything ? Derek Chauvin prior to 2000 would have been acquitted in Minnesota .

Had a discussion with a friend.. he said ask his friend who I knew about what it is like to be a police officer . Ask him about the bodily harm he was threatened with .

So i asked his cop friend if he ever saw his fellow police officers use excessive force . He replied yes. i then asked what he did . He told his fellow officer never to interfer with one of his collars, and that they sort of retrained this officer in the field .

I asked one last question … did you ever tell management so they could handle it ? NO
 
Didn't this jury find the cops "Not Guilty"? That means they all agreed, not just one middle aged white juror, otherwise it would have been a hung jury.

As for winning about 99% of these cases, I think that pretty darn close to 99% of these cases could have been avoided if the criminal would have just followed the officers instructions.
Stretch have you ever been in a situation with an officer ? And what about those people who may have been drunk, fell asleep in a Wendy’s parking lot , police come , the person is not armed , runs away and is shot in the back. Justified ?
But not sure why would shoukd believe or trust law enforcement or any form whether it is the courts, the fbi or the police .
 
and given the guy allegedly assaulted the officers, was out of control, they were going to need to use some level of "force" to protect themselves. Cops deserve the opportunity to defend themselves as well.
So was Derek Chauvin protecting himself and three other cops in Minnesota as he knelt on Floyd’s neck liked he just bagged a deer . Hands in pocket just a cool summer stroll except there was a life under his neck .
 
Was the video on the cops showing what happened ?
Did you watch the video attached to the article? I did, and I read the article thoroughly again. Go watch it. The guy is laying on the ground, and you can clearly see the cops beating the shit out of him. The gal who filmed it is screaming at them to stop and just arrest him. That alone is damning. How the F can that not be enough to convict them? In the article, the eyewitnesses all completely contradict what the cops said. The medical examiner - shit I gotta go back and read it again to quote him. Edit coming after I get more coffee.

And to Uber - you must live in Tacoma. I did for awhile 5 years ago, and I remember other similar situations back then where the cops used excessive force. Something has been and is still wrong in that town. So yeah, shitting on Tacoma seems about right.
 
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Stretch have you ever been in a situation with an officer ? And what about those people who may have been drunk, fell asleep in a Wendy’s parking lot , police come , the person is not armed , runs away and is shot in the back. Justified ?
But not sure why would shoukd believe or trust law enforcement or any form whether it is the courts, the fbi or the police .
Thank you for making my point for me! Had the guy just cooperated, he would not have died!!! He fought with the officer, struck him, grabbed the taser (which is a weapon), and actually fired the taser at the officer. And you know what might have happened if he had hit the officer? The criminal (which he was as soon as he fought with the officer) might have gone back to a incapacitated officer and taken his gun. And what happens then-does he shoot and kill the officer? Just do what the f*ck the officer tells you to do and you will be okay Almost every time.
So to answer questions, no I have never been in a "situation" with a police officer, other than being stopped for speeding. But I have never been stupid enough to put me in a "situation", and I always cooperated with the officer. That is what is smart and that is what is the right thing to do. As for the unfortunate Mr Brooks, he was stupid. Did not cooperate, attacked the officer, stole his weapon, used it against the officer, and paid the price for it. He got what he deserved.

Just to show that I won't blindly say the cops are ALWAYS right, there was a case in Chicago where the cop shot a kid in the back, which was later covered up by the department and Dem mayor Rahm Emmanuel. IIRC, that was not at all justified. I also recall seeing a video, I think from Phoenix, where a guy was in the hallway of a hotel/motel, I think was on his knees, when he was shot. I think he was not doing exactly what the officer was yelling at him, but he did not appear to be a threat. Don't recall what ended up happening in that case.

From Wiki:
On the night of June 12, 2020, Rayshard Brooks, a 27-year-old African American man, was fatally shot by Atlanta Police Department (APD) officer Garrett Rolfe.

APD officer Devin Brosnan was responding to a complaint that Brooks was asleep in a car in a Wendy's restaurant drive-through lane. Rolfe arrived minutes later and conducted a weapons search pat-down, a field sobriety test, and breathalyzer test of Brooks.[1] While talking with officers, Brooks offered several times to walk home.[2][3] After the breathalyzer, Rolfe stated Brooks was too drunk to drive and attempted to arrest him.

A physical confrontation ensued, during which Brooks struck officer Brosnan, grabbed Brosnan's taser and attempted to run away.[1] Rolfe pursued Brooks on foot, and Brooks turned and fired the taser toward Rolfe. Rolfe then fired his gun three times at Brooks, hitting him twice. A third shot struck an occupied car. By the time Brooks was shot by Rolfe, the taser had fired twice, the maximum times it could be fired.[4] Brooks died after surgery.

Video recorded from the officers' bodycams, a witness's phone and the restaurant's security system, was widely broadcast.[3] Police chief Erika Shields resigned one day later; that same day, Rolfe was fired and Brosnan was placed on administrative duty. Fulton County District Attorney Paul L. Howard charged Rolfe with felony murder and ten other offenses; Brosnan with aggravated assault and two counts of violation of oath.

Howard used video clips from the shooting in his campaign commercials for his unsuccessful 2020 reelection bid. Howard's successor decided the DA's office could not prosecute the charges against Rolfe.[5] On May 5, 2021, the Civil Service Board of the City of Atlanta reinstated Rolfe with back pay, after finding that the City of Atlanta did not afford him his right to due process.[6][7]

In June 2022, Rolfe and Brosnan filed a federal lawsuit alleging that they were attacked by Brooks and had the right to use force to prevent him from “imminent use of unlawful force against them.”[8] On August 23, 2022, prosecutors announced that they had dropped all charges against both officers, saying that "the use of deadly force was objectively reasonable and that they did not act with criminal intent."[9][8]

Brooks' family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the City of Atlanta in September 2021. Both parties reached a $1 million dollar settlement in November 2022.[10]
 
Thank you for making my point for me! Had the guy just cooperated, he would not have died!!! He fought with the officer, struck him, grabbed the taser (which is a weapon), and actually fired the taser at the officer. And you know what might have happened if he had hit the officer? The criminal (which he was as soon as he fought with the officer) might have gone back to a incapacitated officer and taken his gun. And what happens then-does he shoot and kill the officer? Just do what the f*ck the officer tells you to do and you will be okay Almost every time.
So to answer questions, no I have never been in a "situation" with a police officer, other than being stopped for speeding. But I have never been stupid enough to put me in a "situation", and I always cooperated with the officer. That is what is smart and that is what is the right thing to do. As for the unfortunate Mr Brooks, he was stupid. Did not cooperate, attacked the officer, stole his weapon, used it against the officer, and paid the price for it. He got what he deserved.

Just to show that I won't blindly say the cops are ALWAYS right, there was a case in Chicago where the cop shot a kid in the back, which was later covered up by the department and Dem mayor Rahm Emmanuel. IIRC, that was not at all justified. I also recall seeing a video, I think from Phoenix, where a guy was in the hallway of a hotel/motel, I think was on his knees, when he was shot. I think he was not doing exactly what the officer was yelling at him, but he did not appear to be a threat. Don't recall what ended up happening in that case.

From Wiki:
On the night of June 12, 2020, Rayshard Brooks, a 27-year-old African American man, was fatally shot by Atlanta Police Department (APD) officer Garrett Rolfe.

APD officer Devin Brosnan was responding to a complaint that Brooks was asleep in a car in a Wendy's restaurant drive-through lane. Rolfe arrived minutes later and conducted a weapons search pat-down, a field sobriety test, and breathalyzer test of Brooks.[1] While talking with officers, Brooks offered several times to walk home.[2][3] After the breathalyzer, Rolfe stated Brooks was too drunk to drive and attempted to arrest him.

A physical confrontation ensued, during which Brooks struck officer Brosnan, grabbed Brosnan's taser and attempted to run away.[1] Rolfe pursued Brooks on foot, and Brooks turned and fired the taser toward Rolfe. Rolfe then fired his gun three times at Brooks, hitting him twice. A third shot struck an occupied car. By the time Brooks was shot by Rolfe, the taser had fired twice, the maximum times it could be fired.[4] Brooks died after surgery.

Video recorded from the officers' bodycams, a witness's phone and the restaurant's security system, was widely broadcast.[3] Police chief Erika Shields resigned one day later; that same day, Rolfe was fired and Brosnan was placed on administrative duty. Fulton County District Attorney Paul L. Howard charged Rolfe with felony murder and ten other offenses; Brosnan with aggravated assault and two counts of violation of oath.

Howard used video clips from the shooting in his campaign commercials for his unsuccessful 2020 reelection bid. Howard's successor decided the DA's office could not prosecute the charges against Rolfe.[5] On May 5, 2021, the Civil Service Board of the City of Atlanta reinstated Rolfe with back pay, after finding that the City of Atlanta did not afford him his right to due process.[6][7]

In June 2022, Rolfe and Brosnan filed a federal lawsuit alleging that they were attacked by Brooks and had the right to use force to prevent him from “imminent use of unlawful force against them.”[8] On August 23, 2022, prosecutors announced that they had dropped all charges against both officers, saying that "the use of deadly force was objectively reasonable and that they did not act with criminal intent."[9][8]

Brooks' family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the City of Atlanta in September 2021. Both parties reached a $1 million dollar settlement in November 2022.[10]
Well this one is muddled and maybe the shooting was justified. But WTH does this have to do with the Tacoma incident? I have been in a few situations with the punk, short man's syndrome cops and deputies back home. Surprise, eh? Those little F-ers were just itching for a fight, I was threatened to be shot more than once. One time this little Pullman PD f-er was on our property hunting. My then wife yelled at him to get off our land, and he argued that it wasn't our land. She called me at work, which was the first time I found out that my Silverado had a governor at 100 MPH. I got there and almost ripped the f-ers neck off, despite the shotgun in his hand. So yeah the cops, who I generally respect, have bad apples.

Kurt , your "the good guys won" comment still just has me scratching my head.
 
Well this one is muddled and maybe the shooting was justified. But WTH does this have to do with the Tacoma incident? I have been in a few situations with the punk, short man's syndrome cops and deputies back home. Surprise, eh? Those little F-ers were just itching for a fight, I was threatened to be shot more than once. One time this little Pullman PD f-er was on our property hunting. My then wife yelled at him to get off our land, and he argued that it wasn't our land. She called me at work, which was the first time I found out that my Silverado had a governor at 100 MPH. I got there and almost ripped the f-ers neck off, despite the shotgun in his hand. So yeah the cops, who I generally respect, have bad apples.

Kurt , your "the good guys won" comment still just has me scratching my head.
Loyal I am pro police and police protection. Are there a few bad apples, sure. The police are the good guys.
 
Loyal I am pro police and police protection. Are there a few bad apples, sure. The police are the good guys.
Yeah well not these guys.

And yeah I agree the police are the good guys in general. Aside from the Pullman PD and the Whitman County Sheriffs. Bunch of punks hassling college students and running speed traps. The big city cops, often putting their lives on the line, different story. Peace.
 
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