One is paid to be a “good guy”, the other is not. One is trusted to be a “good guy”, the other is not.
OT: The jury has spoken here in Tacoma today...
- Thread starter ttowncoug
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I am pro police and pro accountability . The police in Floyd’s case had 40 in the Derek Chauvin precinct .
They had four cops at the Floyd arrest… 10% of the department that were “bad” cops… and that is the ones we know about who sat around and did nothing while Chauvin kneeled like he had bagged a deer .
They need to make sure body cam is on at all times or puts their case into question .
You trust law and order ? You trust prosecutors and juries? You trust those who enforce the law? Is this a sometimes deal or with impunity ?
Cops aren't authority, dipshit. They are public servants.
It only takes one to prevent a conviction, and only in the US, tin pot countries and North Korea are you at risk of being killed for not following "the boss man's" instructions. Personally, when a US cop tells me to jump, I say how high, because I, like you, know I risk your life if I don't. It doesn't make that crap right!
That "authority" has an equal obligation and duty to safeguard the civil and human rights of the citizens they have sworn to protect and serve. That's all I have to say about that.
There has been much discussion on this topic already yet no one wants to talk about civic duty & responsibility of the everyday citizen in this country. Bucking social norms and moral code in the name of social justice (what a joke this has become) and the white supremacy boogeyman has only led to tearing apart the moral fabric of what this country once was. Was it perfect? Uhh no but I'd rather have that than the sh!tshow we have now. Allowing mentally ill men pretending to be women to have a platform and to treat it is as if it were "normal" is abhorrent and wrong on all levels.
I guess I have to ask CIS … what is the civic duties we are missing out on now, and what other issues or behaviors are you longing for in the past. Maybe what you will describe will educate me to what Trump and his movement meant by making America great again. That way I don’t have to try and assume or guess what MAGA really means .
That has to be one of the dumbest questions ever posted here.
Its a yes or no. If you say yes, then under what conditions? If you say no, then that it more defined.
This American citizen died under custody of the police. Let's simply start here...you okay with that?
If not, why? If so, why? Keep in mind we are ONLY talking about THIS specific situation. Go!
Which situation? Atlanta, Minneapolis or Tacoma? Or all of the above?
I thank Gawd that I am not responsible for starting this thread. And kind of fun to watch you all scrapping without me being the center of it.
Although I am sure that my man part will find it's way in eventually!I stand by my dumbest question comment, because you did not limit it to a specific situation, and anyone with a rational thought in their head would not be "okay with people dying in police custody".
Regarding Tacoma, which I assume you are referring to, I have not seen the video (link didn't work for me) and am not familiar with all the facts, so I won't give a definitive answer. Is it a concern, yes, pretty much every time is a concern, but that does not make it wrong. Context, situation, training, department policy- all those things factor in whether actions taken are justified when a suspect loses their life.
I think there were witnesses in Tacoma that testified against the cops, but they cannot always be trusted. Wasn't it The Brown case ( I think that was the St L one) where he robbed the store and then ended up attacking the cop in his squad car. Witnesses testified that he was unarmed and never went near the car, but that was opposed by others testimony and the forensic evidence. Maybe that happened in Tacoma, I don't know. But I have noticed how when a black male is killed by police that quite often there are the race hustlers that show up and stir things up, getting the black community all up in arms immediately, before the facts of the matter are even known.
Not sure why your video link didn't work but trust me it clearly showed the cops beating the shit out of the handcuffed and on the ground guy. With the video taker screaming at them to stop.
I believe you, but did that particular video show the entirety of the encounter? What lead up to that, was he cooperative or combative? What is policy and training for their department? Context and entirety of the matter is necessary. That is just reality. Not knowing all of that, I am not going to throw out an opinion on if this was justified or not.
Going back to George Floyd for comparison, I searched that out and there were several videos that showed him being restrained on the ground. But those stories didn't also include the police body cam videos that showed him being non-cooperative to the point of being combative. You MUST consider the entirety of the encounter when making judgements about whether the force used is justified. It seems like such a rational, logical thing to do, but often times people neglect to do that.
Oh for Gawd's sake. Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes. Handcuffed and everything. Why? How the F could you possible rationalize that? Stand him up and throw him in the squad car.
As far as Tacoma, sort of the same thing. Guy is handcuffed and at that point maybe hogtied which he was at some point. And the cops are beating the shit out of him. What does it matter whether he was previously combative? After you knock a guy down for the count in a fight, do you sit on him and just beat the shit out of him?
At what point will you simply NOT offer a defense of the most indefensible? Chauvin/Floyd? Really? You are offering a counter TO THIS ONE?
That f-er was convicted by a jury of his peers and yet you want to quibble about stuff that wasn't seen prior to his killing?
I assumed you trusted the legal system. You seem to when they acquit a cop but not as much when they convict.
Ed asked you about this. Probs because he assumed you were okay with this Tacoma acquittal but don't buy into trump's indictments as being legit. Is this accurate or do I misread your position?
Geesus Loyal, thought you’d have it figured out by now that video and audio doesn’t mean shit when you don’t want to believe what you see or hear. That’s the basic foundation of a cult FFS. You want to have some fun, ask him how he feels about cops getting the shit kicked out of them by their fellow cultists on Jan 6th. Spin cycle engaged!
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While I get, understand, agree with some, most of your comment.
There are videos where you don't need the whole story, etc.
And that's because IF there is video, or body cam coverage Showing a cop BEATING a person to DEATH that is HELPLESS ON the ground, that is HANDCUFFED, that is MOTIONLESS, that is a BLOODY PULP, that is CRYING OUT IN PAIN, WHERE LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE BEGGING, PLEADING FOR THE COP TO STOP.
In such a situation, it doesn't matter what the context, story is, whether they were criminals or uncooperative at first, etc, because THEY WERE IN CUSTODY, AND WERE NOT A THREAT, ETC.
In the above example, how is that justified?
It's not justified, even if don't have whole story, context, etc, because NO WAY IN BLOODY DAMN FCKING HELL IN THE ABOVE EXAMPLE IS THE PERSON A THREAT to the police. The threat has been NEUTRALIZED. and the COPS are WAY THE BLOODY DAMN FCKING HELL OVERFCKINGKILLING IT. PERIOD, NO ANDS, IFS, BUTS, ETC.
It's just like how when USA troops, and ALLIED forces, in WW2, MURDERED German Prisoners. That's a FACT, it happened. It's True. Doesn't matter what the context is, as it's WRONG to MURDER German prisoners. PERIOD, no ANDS, IFS, BUTS, ETC.
Yeah George Floyd was uncooperative at times, had committed a crime, etc.
But When George Floyd FELL, and when Derek Chauvin, was grinding the air out of, suffocating, killing George Floyd, the rest of story, context didn't matter, because George Floyd had PASSED OUT, WAS UNCONSCIOUS, AND WAS NO LONGER uncooperative, no longer a threat. He was under control. There was no danger to cops. So because of that, the proper response would have been to take knee off neck slap the cuffs on, etc.
But for about 9 to 18 to 27 seconds after that Chauvin continued to grind his knee into George Floyd's WINDPIPE IN NECK AND KILLED, MURDERED GEORGE FLOYD, and because of that, it DOES NOT MATTER that Floyd was a criminal, etc.
And Derek Chauvin was RIGHTFULLY FOUND GUILTY AT TRIAL AND SENTENCED, IMPRISONED..
While I agree with a lot of what you say in general, there are exceptions to what your saying where getting the rest of the story is not important.
I really don't understand whether you are disagreeing with me or Stretch. My feeble mind does not work that well at what - now almost 8AM my time. The video in Tacoma is indisputable.
Hence why they sought to stop him. He was in the street attack
Okay is the wrong word. I understand how it happens at times and don’t think the police should be at fault. Other times the police should be charged. I am not okay with Manny Ellis dying, but also not okay locking away the police who were restraining him while his heart was on the brink of exploding from meth, fighting with cops, and in the road attacking cars. I wish he was alive, mental healthy, not using meth. But he wasn’t and it lead to a tragic sequence that you can’t put on the police’s shoulders. Not a pun…. Not everything is black or white. I don’t understand how we decided cops need to protect civilians, themselves, and perpetrators, never use force, and understand that any move that may potential harm any person can get them sued, fired, and in jail. Impossible task. Seems like too many of you want people to either fall on the anti cops side, or pro cops side. It’s not that easy, and pretty BS to ask questions like “are you okay with someone dying” if someone doesn’t strictly agree with your side.
On one extreme you have people who always say the cops are wrong. On opposite extreme you have people who say cops always right.
Between those 2 extremes is the right middle ground of trying to be objective, neutral, waiting for facts, etç, and realize that sometimes cops are innocent, and sometimes guilty, and that there are bad apple cops, and that there are good cops, etc.
While I generally agree with that.
Jury's can be wrong.
That's why there is innocents on Death Row.
The American justice system CAN be CORRUPT, TWISTED, wrong at times.
So if there is a incident, and if video of the incident, clearly shows a cop walking up to a unarmed civilian, and shooting them point blank range in the head, thus killing, murdering them, then even if a trial, jury finds that cop not guilty, then while that cop is technically, legally, theoretically not guilty, in actuality, reality the cop in the fictitious made up example above is, would be GUILTY, etc.
And that kind of stuff, can or does happen, as the GUILTY can get off, and the innocent can goto Death Row.
As to the Tacoma Incident, I am not familiar enough with what happened, to say whether Jury right or wrong.
But if the Jury had not found Derek Chauvin Guilty, he still would have still been GUILTY AS HELL.
And if the cop in the THUG MIKE BROWN case had been found guilty, he still would have been INNOCENT.
Well hard for me to comment as I have not seen the video . After he attacked the police did they have him on the ground and secured ? Did they have him in hand cuffs? How much longer after he was secured did he say he couldn’t. death? I am guessing they were either on his neck or on his back .
Did the police have their cameras rolling or was the video from someone else ?
Did the police have their cameras rolling or was the video from someone else ?
Yeah same here. Good Questions.
Guess I need to get out of my CAVE more and read, see, watch more news more to be better informed more, even though news is sad, etc.
Shit Ed. WTF?
Video shows Tacoma officer punching, restraining Manuel Ellis
The family of Manuel Ellis is calling for the arrests of four Tacoma police officers involved and for the state attorney general to conduct an investigation
www.king5.com
These cases are always tough. I'm not a fan of police brutality and there are a lot of cops that should be in prison. That doesn't mean that every case is automatically an officer's fault. I'd like to think that the jury heard compelling evidence that a murder conviction wasn't appropriate and I do believe that it's harder for cops to get away with things that they used to.
As others have said, criminals resisting arrest are putting themselves in harms way by doing that. It doesn't forgive some of the more extreme cases we've seen and again, there are many instances where cops should be in prison, but play stupid games, win stupid prizes and the meth addict wouldn't be dead if he wasn't playing those games.
I do hope that it was a legit jury though.
As others have said, criminals resisting arrest are putting themselves in harms way by doing that. It doesn't forgive some of the more extreme cases we've seen and again, there are many instances where cops should be in prison, but play stupid games, win stupid prizes and the meth addict wouldn't be dead if he wasn't playing those games.
I do hope that it was a legit jury though.
Shit Ed. WTF?
Video shows Tacoma officer punching, restraining Manuel Ellis
The family of Manuel Ellis is calling for the arrests of four Tacoma police officers involved and for the state attorney general to conduct an investigation
While the the man was uncooperative, refused to put arms behind back, resisted arrest, etc, the suspect reached a point where he GAVE UP, and the video showed suspect lying helplessly on back, almost curled into a PRONE ball, and that the Cop was on TOP of suspect, REPEATEDLY PUNCHING, KICKING suspect over and over, until suspect later died from injuries received from the COP, who was using WAY THE FCKING EXCESSIVE FORCE.
1,2 punch, or restraining suspect, and putting suspect in Cuffs, an or tying suspect up, would have been enough.
The suspect was CONTROLLED, in CUSTODY, DOMINATED, THREAT HAD BEEN ELIMINATED, SO IT WAS NOT NECESSARY TO USE EXCESSIVE FORCE, KILL, ETC, suspect.
The Mayor, Governor Inslee, etc, have officially said that there WILL be a independent prosecutorial investigation.
Also this video was not known about, not around at the time of the Cop's Trial, so if he was found not guilty, like some here have said that he was found not guilty, it's because adequate investigation didn't happen, went to trial too fast, didn't have this video, etc.
When the Independent Prosecutorial investigation, finishes investigation, tries him again on related, slightly different charges, he either will be or should be found guilty.
The video is PRETTY DAMNING.
At extreme minimum the cop should be fired forever, and never ever work again as a cop or any other position of authority, where situational awareness, self control, etc, is a requirement of the job.
And the city should be sued, and probably will be successfully sued in a wrongful death suit, since cops wrongfully can't be sued.
Damning video
The video or videos either weren't around, or weren't known about at the time of the trial
That was what was reported by the video and local, national news, etc.
If the trial had had access to the video, the cop probably would have been convicted, now that cops like Derek Chauvin are finally being convicted, held accountable, etc.
The criminal was NO LONGER A THREAT. He was UNDER CONTROL, DOMINATED, IN CUSTODY, ETC, AT THE TIME THE COP WAS BEATING HIM TO DEATH.
THERE IS SUCH A THING AS OVERKILL, EXCESSIVE FORCE, ETC.
AND TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT.
THE POLICE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TRAINED ENOUGH, HAVE ENOUGH SELF CONTROL ENOUGH, ETC, THAT EVEN IF A SUSPECT IS GUILTY, IN THE WRONG, ETC, THAT THE COP WILL USE THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF FORCE.
SAYING THAT THE SUSPECT BROUGHT THIS ON THEMSELVES, JUST BS EXCUSES THE COP, AND ENABLES THE FEW BAD APPLE COPS TO KEEP ON USING EXCESSIVE FORCE, KILLING, MURDERING SUSPECTS, ETC, AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT.
Yeah the suspect brought this on themselves, BUT THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE THE COP.
ESPECIALLY IN A HELL OF A CORRUPT POLICE DEPT LIKE NY, LA, TACOMA THAT HAS A DESERVED REPUTATION FOR BEING CORRUPT.
I should have been more clear… i haven’t seen the video video and very unlikely I will look at it especially around Christmas.Shit Ed. WTF?
Video shows Tacoma officer punching, restraining Manuel Ellis
The family of Manuel Ellis is calling for the arrests of four Tacoma police officers involved and for the state attorney general to conduct an investigation
Not really disagreeing with anyone. You are arguing with a someone who won’t believe anything he sees or hears that doesn’t fit his narrative.
Did I say i didn’t have time? If I did I misled you and I apologize . I thought I said it was unlikely Inwoikd watch it .
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