Our woes on D result from a talent evaluation failing

[Fab5Coug]

One of the local radio guys in the Seattle area said his inside sources told him Lamont MacDougal wasn't an ideal fit for WSU's scheme.

The kid was a freshman All-American and probably could've transferred to any program in the country outside of maybe Alabama.

Maybe that all changes these next several games?

No, he couldn't have.

 

[CougEd]

It isn't a recruiting problem, "recruiting" being defined as beating other Pac-12 teams for prized recruits. The Zimmer speed defense concept, like the "air raid" for offense, assumes you aren't going to win many recruiting battles. But you must sign the right type of player. On offense, Leach knows exactly what he wants, and those "overlooked" under recruited kids fits the "air raid" template. On defense we have greatly improved our team speed (at the expense of size). However, there is another aspect to the prefect speed D player we have missed the boat on. What made the Steve Gleason's Chris Hayes', Ron Child's, Tory Hunter's, Jason David's, John Rushing's et al and our other mighty mites, far better at playing speed D?

It is a nose for the football, a high football IQ. The perfect speed defense player is not only fast, he stays in position to utilize his speed. The future perfect speed D player, is the fast undersized kids, who is also in on every play of game film. He is the "who is that kid" kid. Speed without the nose for the ball just makes you a Keystone cop on the field, and we have too many of those. If you play speed D well, your lack of size must replaced by numbers on the ball. You can't get numbers on the ball unless you have the football minds as well.

Our evaluation on the defensive side of the ball has been spotty. In another thread it was mentioned Joe struggled getting the Samoan kids because of problem we had with the student council. But I pointed out our recruiting started to go down hill before that event. Joe S did a better job in 12 and 13 then he did in his last several years.

Mike and staff see where 3 star kids fit in. Price had to have a different recruiting philosophy because he didn't have Leach's cache. He would target great athletes. At first blush we have swung and missed on a ton of defensive players the last few years. 2014 was hugely problematic because we only had three real contributors, it forced us to go out and get a JC transfer in McBroom and others. Then you start having to fill voids in the roster created by those early JC departures. and other early departures among the rest of the roster. .

So could Leach at this point recruit as Price did and get better athletes and talent on the D side of the ball, and would he be willing to move an offensive gem to the other side of the ball. I have seen one kid on the roster who could be a lock down corner. I think he would be among the conference best if he played on the other side of the ball, but right now he is in the rotation.

So even if Leach is willing to adopt some of Prices recruiting philosophies, would today's kids be willing to make the sacrifices with the transfer portal.

For example, would Childs rather play LB at WSU or live out his dream being the next Bruiser at Cal Poly. Would Tory Hunter rather be a DB at WSU, or a WR at Northern Arizona.

Price offered these kids to take a shot at their dream position, but all along he knew Trufant was a CB and not a RB. He would tell the kids what they wanted to hear to get them on campus. I wonder if the portal even makes this possible anymore.

 

[etowncoug]

Respectfully, Joe's recruiting never fell off.
2012: Vaeao, Barber
2013: Ekuale
2014: Mata'afa, Luvu
2015: Luani, Tago
2016: Mauigoa
2017: left before signing day

Considering he pulled all the P5 guys off Samoa while he was here, I'll take that as a win. I find it strange that we haven't seen many Island kids making an impact anywhere since he left. Maybe the pipeline was starting to run dry and he went to Oregon at a good time.

Regarding your other point, I suspect the game has changed too much for your strategy. You can do the Justus Rogers thing and tell a kid his future is probably on defense but you'll give him a shot at the offense. But with information being so readily available, the kids can research their best opportunity to play where they want.

Jamir Thomas knew he had a good chance to play RB here (even though his best position was probably LB) and if he got moved he would have hit the portal and ended up at a school like Rutgers. It's not a matter of picking LB at WSU or RB at Youngstown state. It's picking RB at WSU over playing LB for Michigan St.

The philosophies are different too. Price recruited a lot of athletes and figured out where to put them when they got on campus. Leach's classes are balanced. Price valued athleticism. Leach values consistency.

It's going to take a few years to fix the defense. I like the kids we have brought in the last two years, but it'll take a while for them to become difference makers.

Our evaluation on the defensive side of the ball has been spotty. In another thread it was mentioned Joe struggled getting the Samoan kids because of problem we had with the student council. But I pointed out our recruiting started to go down hill before that event. Joe S did a better job in 12 and 13 then he did in his last several years.

Mike and staff see where 3 star kids fit in. Price had to have a different recruiting philosophy because he didn't have Leach's cache. He would target great athletes. At first blush we have swung and missed on a ton of defensive players the last few years. 2014 was hugely problematic because we only had three real contributors, it forced us to go out and get a JC transfer in McBroom and others. Then you start having to fill voids in the roster created by those early JC departures. and other early departures among the rest of the roster. .

So could Leach at this point recruit as Price did and get better athletes and talent on the D side of the ball, and would he be willing to move an offensive gem to the other side of the ball. I have seen one kid on the roster who could be a lock down corner. I think he would be among the conference best if he played on the other side of the ball, but right now he is in the rotation.

So even if Leach is willing to adopt some of Prices recruiting philosophies, would today's kids be willing to make the sacrifices with the transfer portal.

For example, would Childs rather play LB at WSU or live out his dream being the next Bruiser at Cal Poly. Would Tory Hunter rather be a DB at WSU, or a WR at Northern Arizona.

Price offered these kids to take a shot at their dream position, but all along he knew Trufant was a CB and not a RB. He would tell the kids what they wanted to hear to get them on campus. I wonder if the portal even makes this possible anymore.

 

[dgibbons]

Our evaluation on the defensive side of the ball has been spotty. In another thread it was mentioned Joe struggled getting the Samoan kids because of problem we had with the student council. But I pointed out our recruiting started to go down hill before that event. Joe S did a better job in 12 and 13 then he did in his last several years.

Mike and staff see where 3 star kids fit in. Price had to have a different recruiting philosophy because he didn't have Leach's cache. He would target great athletes. At first blush we have swung and missed on a ton of defensive players the last few years. 2014 was hugely problematic because we only had three real contributors, it forced us to go out and get a JC transfer in McBroom and others. Then you start having to fill voids in the roster created by those early JC departures. and other early departures among the rest of the roster. .

So could Leach at this point recruit as Price did and get better athletes and talent on the D side of the ball, and would he be willing to move an offensive gem to the other side of the ball. I have seen one kid on the roster who could be a lock down corner. I think he would be among the conference best if he played on the other side of the ball, but right now he is in the rotation.

So even if Leach is willing to adopt some of Prices recruiting philosophies, would today's kids be willing to make the sacrifices with the transfer portal.

For example, would Childs rather play LB at WSU or live out his dream being the next Bruiser at Cal Poly. Would Tory Hunter rather be a DB at WSU, or a WR at Northern Arizona.

Price offered these kids to take a shot at their dream position, but all along he knew Trufant was a CB and not a RB. He would tell the kids what they wanted to hear to get them on campus. I wonder if the portal even makes this possible anymore.

A tad bit of nostalgia here. Price didn't recruit consistently. That's how you have zero depth, and two or three losing seasons followed by a bowl run.

 

[M-I-Coug]

I've removed my post. My assumption was if you're off the depth chart you're off the team. My wrong. Have no idea where McDougale is or what's going on.

 

[fingerdisco]

I've removed my post. My assumption was if you're off the depth chart you're off the team. My wrong. Have no idea where McDougale is or what's going on.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

 

[cougarhawk1]

Respectfully, Joe's recruiting never fell off.
2012: Vaeao, Barber
2013: Ekuale
2014: Mata'afa, Luvu
2015: Luani, Tago
2016: Mauigoa
2017: left before signing day

Samoan pipeline is killing us, that's our front 7 on defense.

Leach needs a Samoan/Islander on staff as priority one imo.

The California/West coast talent pool plus the islanders gives a good level of talent-but right now we got a big deficit.

 

[CougEd]

Respectfully, Joe's recruiting never fell off.
2012: Vaeao, Barber
2013: Ekuale
2014: Mata'afa, Luvu
2015: Luani, Tago
2016: Mauigoa
2017: left before signing day

Samoan pipeline is killing us, that's our front 7 on defense.

Leach needs a Samoan/Islander on staff as priority one imo.

The California/West coast talent pool plus the islanders gives a good level of talent-but right now we got a big deficit.

The most important and hardest position to recruit interior dline he got three quality kids his first two years. The next three years he got one total .

 

[etowncoug]

The most important and hardest position to recruit interior dline he got three quality kids his first two years. The next three years he got one total .

You do realize you are limited by the kids available on American Samoa? Joe was never much of a recruiter off the island.

 

[Fab5Coug]

You do realize you are limited by the kids available on American Samoa? Joe was never much of a recruiter off the island.

This. And, they did land some good looking prospects that just didn't pan out. Derek Moore had to medically retire. Daniel Bender looked like a steal, but transferred out. TJ Fehoko got into trouble.

 

[froropmkr72]

This. And, they did land some good looking prospects that just didn't pan out. Derek Moore had to medically retire. Daniel Bender looked like a steal, but transferred out. TJ Fehoko got into trouble.

You know that's a very incomplete list. I know you could make up a complete list knowing what you know.

 

[Fab5Coug]

You know that's a very incomplete list. I know you could make up a complete list knowing what you know.

I was just looking at DL recruits from those couple classes. I'm sure there was another guy or two, those are just the ones I remember being pretty high on as recruits.

 

[CougPatrol]

A tad bit of nostalgia here. Price didn't recruit consistently. That's how you have zero depth, and two or three winless seasons in conference followed by a bowl run.

Edited...I loved Price and the Price era, but there were some serious gaps between competitive play.

 

[CougEd]

You do realize you are limited by the kids available on American Samoa? Joe was never much of a recruiter off the island.

I didn't realize his only connection to the Samoan kids were on the Island. He is a legend among the entire community.