All of the hand-wringing about closing or blocking the canal is a bit ridiculous. If someone wanted to disable it, they just need to seriously damage or sink one ship in one lock. Pretty sure Tom Clancy already wrote that book.
Paaan-a-ma
- Thread starter UberCougars
- Start date
Look in the mirror dude.
If we're surging ships, troops, and supplies to the Pacific, where will it be coming from, where will it be going and what is the fastest way of getting it there? About two thirds of the US sealift capacity is along the Atlantic or Gulf. Not every ship is part of a carrier strike group. And it's only the carriers that can't make it through. Marine Expeditionary Units are fairly self-contained and would be traveling with every bullet, missile and artillery round they would need for a fight. So, yes, hundreds of missiles and thousands of artillery rounds would be going through the Canal. Submarines and destroyers stationed on the east coast would be going west. Days could make a difference if there is a shooting war with China. Taiwan's strategy is to hold on for as long as it can waiting for the US Navy and Marines to arrive. If the Canal is not 100 percent secure thousands and troops and billions of ships and equipment will have to go around, they would be far to vulnerable in the Canal.
You apparently don't know that China took control of Hong Kong in 2020. So your math is nonsense. Chinese companies don't go rogue. They follow the CCP's directions or the management disappears.
Hey grok,
How does the recent visit by Secretary of State Rubio to Panama, help the United States economically and with national security.
answer:
Secretary of State Marco Rubio's recent visit to Panama has implications for both the economic interests and national security of the United States:
### Economic Benefits:
1. **Countering Chinese Influence**: Rubio's diplomacy has led to Panama's decision to not renew its participation in China's Belt and Road Initiative, which was seen as a move to reduce Chinese economic influence in the region. This could open opportunities for U.S. companies to gain or regain economic footholds in infrastructure projects or port operations near the Panama Canal, which is crucial for global trade.
2. **Strengthening Bilateral Trade**: By fostering a stronger relationship with Panama, the U.S. aims to enhance trade relations, potentially leading to increased exports and imports, benefiting U.S. businesses and consumers. Panama's strategic position with the canal makes it a vital node in global trade routes, particularly for U.S. maritime commerce.
3. **Investment Opportunities**: The discussions during Rubio's visit might lead to new investment agreements or expansions in sectors like logistics, technology, and energy, where the U.S. has significant expertise and interest.
### National Security Benefits:
1. **Panama Canal Security**: The U.S. has expressed concerns over Chinese influence around the Panama Canal, particularly through companies like CK Hutchison Holdings operating key ports. Rubio's warnings about taking "measures necessary" to protect U.S. rights under the canal treaty highlight a focus on ensuring the canal remains neutral and secure, which is critical for U.S. naval and commercial shipping interests.
2. **Migration Management**: Rubio's agenda included talks on migration, aiming to collaborate with Panama on managing the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap. This cooperation could help in controlling illegal immigration into the U.S., a significant national security issue.
3. **Geopolitical Influence**: By engaging directly with Latin American leaders, Rubio reinforces U.S. presence and influence in the region, countering not only Chinese but also Russian and other potentially adversarial influences. This is part of a broader strategy to secure the Western Hemisphere as an area of U.S. strategic interest.
4. **Counterterrorism and Drug Trafficking**: Panama's cooperation can be pivotal in broader regional efforts to combat drug trafficking, organized crime, and potentially terrorism, given its geographic position linking North and South America.
5. **Military and Diplomatic Relations**: Rubio's visit might lead to discussions or agreements on military cooperation, intelligence sharing, or other security-related arrangements that would bolster U.S. strategic interests in Central America.
These outcomes are based on the diplomatic efforts highlighted in recent news coverage and posts on X, which suggest a significant diplomatic initiative aimed at recalibrating U.S. relations with Panama to serve both economic and security objectives. However, the exact impact will depend on the follow-through of agreements and the ongoing diplomatic relations between the two countries.
How does the recent visit by Secretary of State Rubio to Panama, help the United States economically and with national security.
answer:
Secretary of State Marco Rubio's recent visit to Panama has implications for both the economic interests and national security of the United States:
### Economic Benefits:
1. **Countering Chinese Influence**: Rubio's diplomacy has led to Panama's decision to not renew its participation in China's Belt and Road Initiative, which was seen as a move to reduce Chinese economic influence in the region. This could open opportunities for U.S. companies to gain or regain economic footholds in infrastructure projects or port operations near the Panama Canal, which is crucial for global trade.
2. **Strengthening Bilateral Trade**: By fostering a stronger relationship with Panama, the U.S. aims to enhance trade relations, potentially leading to increased exports and imports, benefiting U.S. businesses and consumers. Panama's strategic position with the canal makes it a vital node in global trade routes, particularly for U.S. maritime commerce.
3. **Investment Opportunities**: The discussions during Rubio's visit might lead to new investment agreements or expansions in sectors like logistics, technology, and energy, where the U.S. has significant expertise and interest.
### National Security Benefits:
1. **Panama Canal Security**: The U.S. has expressed concerns over Chinese influence around the Panama Canal, particularly through companies like CK Hutchison Holdings operating key ports. Rubio's warnings about taking "measures necessary" to protect U.S. rights under the canal treaty highlight a focus on ensuring the canal remains neutral and secure, which is critical for U.S. naval and commercial shipping interests.
2. **Migration Management**: Rubio's agenda included talks on migration, aiming to collaborate with Panama on managing the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap. This cooperation could help in controlling illegal immigration into the U.S., a significant national security issue.
3. **Geopolitical Influence**: By engaging directly with Latin American leaders, Rubio reinforces U.S. presence and influence in the region, countering not only Chinese but also Russian and other potentially adversarial influences. This is part of a broader strategy to secure the Western Hemisphere as an area of U.S. strategic interest.
4. **Counterterrorism and Drug Trafficking**: Panama's cooperation can be pivotal in broader regional efforts to combat drug trafficking, organized crime, and potentially terrorism, given its geographic position linking North and South America.
5. **Military and Diplomatic Relations**: Rubio's visit might lead to discussions or agreements on military cooperation, intelligence sharing, or other security-related arrangements that would bolster U.S. strategic interests in Central America.
These outcomes are based on the diplomatic efforts highlighted in recent news coverage and posts on X, which suggest a significant diplomatic initiative aimed at recalibrating U.S. relations with Panama to serve both economic and security objectives. However, the exact impact will depend on the follow-through of agreements and the ongoing diplomatic relations between the two countries.
Of course we need to be proactive and protect our interests but aside from posturing on both sides I see no realistic scenario where anything approaching the fears of those about China attain.
We are in a symbiotic relationship with them economically. Anything that would remotely jeopardize our navy from going anywhere we need to unimpeded would risk serious economic casualties. Like it or not, we are partners in business.
We've dominated the seas since WWII and had free access from the Atlantic tonthe pacific even longer. We'd take that very seriously if a company on either side of the canal foolishly jeopardized that. China knows this, the uSA knows this, we on this board know this, the world knows this. That's all I have to say about that
We are in a symbiotic relationship with them economically. Anything that would remotely jeopardize our navy from going anywhere we need to unimpeded would risk serious economic casualties. Like it or not, we are partners in business.
We've dominated the seas since WWII and had free access from the Atlantic tonthe pacific even longer. We'd take that very seriously if a company on either side of the canal foolishly jeopardized that. China knows this, the uSA knows this, we on this board know this, the world knows this. That's all I have to say about that
We'll see. Don't think 25 years is anywhere close to accurate but I could be in for a shock. Taihtsat
As mentioned above, China could easily take a non-Chinese registered ship and sink it in the canal. The stupid sh!t that you people worry about when your dear leader spews drivel out of his mouth is laughable. If China goes full rogue and takes over the canal, ownership of the port is the least of our worries.
Straight from Bill Clinton’s lips to your ears in the year 2000. Globalization will be wonderful. Peace and prosperity for everyone. The world economy will be a like a big elephant walk where every country is reliant on every other country. So, there is no way Russia would annex Crimea and then invade. China will be our peaceful friend. China wouldn’t do something like expand and modernize the PLAN to be larger than the United States Navy or build a super carrier to invade Taiwan.
China could nuke it too. Parading around some kind of other attack China could unleash doesn’t explain why you want to make it easier.
Why do you suppose China would remotely consider needing to do either of those things?
Shutting down the canal is f#cking easy no matter what. We already have an agreement with Panama that allows us to intervene militarily if necessary. Trump is a f#cking idiot who is trying to force "real estate" decisions that will allow the US to grow its territory in a pathetic vanity move to prove his "greatness". That the MAGA crowd laps that sh!t up is gross.
Trump says, "We should not be sending troops or money overseas to clean up other people's messes". You dumb f#ckers yell, "Hell Yeah!"
Trump says, "We are going to spend billions of dollars cleaning up the Gaza strip to turn it into a resort area that displaces millions of people and we'll send troops if necessary" and you dumb f#ckers yell, "Hell Yeah!".
The mindless stupidity of the right is maddening. All of the Gaza, Panama and Greenland talk is just a delusional old fool who should be eating soft food and not making decisions that impact millions of people.
Even if….the US “took over Gaza”…which, lol, you think Ukraine is an expensive war to support, imagine initiating that.
How many of you would benefit from it? You gonna charter a jet and go hang out in Trumps Atlantic City of the Middle East?
Everything Trump does he does for him and his country club buddies…that’s it. Y’all ain’t in the club. Never have been. Never will be. He Despises you and wouldn’t shake your hand with someone else’s hand. You are the scum of the earth to him. And you suck him off every chance you can. F’n morons 😂.
They don’t by controlling ports on both sides of the canal. See how that works.
Repeating myself- Why make it easier for China? Neither you nor Flatland bother to answer that question. Instead the TDS takes over.
This is like Exhibit 10,000 showing your TDS.
You’re still not answering why to make it easier. And that really has nothing to do with Trump. The leases on the ports were renewed in 2021. China is the strategic adversary of the United States. Even Barry and Sleepy Joe realized that, even if The Big Guy didn’t actually care.
Well, Trump made your life better with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. You don’t have to like it.
On the other hand, The Big Guy gave you high inflation exceeding actual wage growth.
Ah yes, the tax “cuts”. Short term tax cuts of a couple of points are meaningless unless you plan to die in a couple of years. Long term implications of Trumps “policies” are far worse, ballooning debt and deficits, widening wealth gap… Problems down the road we all have to pay for. Almost like the type of things a guy would do who’s sitting on a golden toilet while bankrupting casinos 🤷.
Perhaps you are on the way out and don’t mind saddling your kids/grandkids with debts they have to pay. Personally I’m more concerned with long term outcomes and don’t get caught up in short term gimmicks.
Implied in your first sentence is they would or could do something that would damage our strategic abilities.
There is no evidence so far that they have, as shown by apparently nearly 30 years of being in this "advantageous" position.
So I don't think you adequately addressed my question. Why would they remotely consider doing something that would adversely affect the statis-quo?
Also, I haven't even mentioned Trump so the "TDS" must be embedded from YOUR over defensiveness of our current president. Taihtsat
You throw out TDS all the time and you don't realize that you are the idiot suffering from it. China can't shut down the canal by military means without us knowing about it. We would know if they were moving large numbers of ships or troops into the area. And the moronic comment earlier about missiles is just plain dumb. Unless we were to not allow China to go through the canal, we can't effectively stop anything bad from happening...even if they don't manage a port near the canal. And not allowing them through the canal would amount to an act of war.... something that you are too stupid to realize.
All this talk of Panama is just posturing to get idiots like you worked up. You fuggin' whined like a bitch about Biden getting us involved in wars and your dipshit President is pissing off everyone in the world and making us the evil empire that everyone hates and increasing the odds that we'll be involved in an armed conflict with every moronic action he takes.
Just to be clear, not every executive order that he's put out is dumb....but the preponderance of his actions in the past two weeks are the epitome of over-reach that you love whining like a b!tch about.
I get it. Everything bad is Trump’s fault. No Democrat ever engaged in deficit spending, right? Please remind me if you’re one of the people going crazy over gutting USAID, Department of Education, and whatever comes next.
Just think of all those dipshits that don’t believe anything Trump says, and only believe what airs on MSNBC. I really feel bad for them, still looking for Joe Biden to run circles around his staff. Don’t worry. I hear that soon Trump will announce a real estate swap. Denmark is getting Kansas in exchange for Greenland. You’ll be Cheeto free forever. But I digress.
I can assure you that you’re far more worked up than I am. Just look at the nonsense you’re posting. You still haven’t answered a simple question- why make it easier for China? I realize that you’re struggling to stay on topic.
I'm not answering your question because only a moron asks that question. By your moronic logic, China has every right to take over Guam since it's a legitimate military threat close to their territorial waters. We should say, "Welp.....it is pretty close to China!".
Nothing to start a war over, right?
Or maybe China should be working even harder to get us to close our Philippines bases? We should just abandon them because frankly, it's not right for us to be involved over there?
What makes all of this funny is that there's never been a hint of Chinese military presence in Panama....but you're pissing down your legs about it. We are an actual threat to them. FWIW, I don't have a problem with that. And I don't think we should allow a Chinese military presence in Panama....but that isn't what's happening. Y'all just making sh!t up to make yourself feel better about supporting your Real Estate Developer-in-Chief.
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Nah. Political posturing and something that’s going to make very little difference anyways. No reason to get bent out of shape. He’s just throwing the loudest shit he can at the wall right now.
As for not being all his fault you’re probably right. I’m sure a few rogue dealers sunk his casino business probably had nothing to do with him.
You’re doing some very creative reading. And even more creative writing. You may want to look up military-civil fusion. Or not. Your choice.
Maybe you’ll get direct flights to Copenhagen?
It’s kind of cool that you dodge any tough questions and make stupid comments to avoid facts.
Perhaps you are thinking of flying to Moscow?
Because not getting involved in wasting a bunch of US funds fixing problems in foreign countries is a priority of this administration.
You sound upset and powerless to do anything about it.
Perhaps you should sit this one out.
Maybe take up knitting or hiking or something.
Perhaps you should sit this one out.
Maybe take up knitting or hiking or something.
I think it's hilarious. I enjoy seeing people twisting themselves into knots to justify their dear leaders moronic actions.
FWIW, just to show that I do actually evaluate things on merit...It is good to see Trump killing penny production. It's a waste of over one hundred million dollars per year on something that very few people care about.
You've been spewing all kinds of nonsense that you don't understand. Chinese corporations are not like US corporations. That's a good place for you to start.
What are you advocating? Reclaiming the canal? Forcing the sale of the chineses owned companies owning the above-mentioned ports? How for starters?
FWIW, China doesn't own the ports. The ports are owned by Panama. The Chinese owned company has a lease to manage the ports.
EDIT: And they apparently have an unspoken agreement with Panama to bring in as many troops, missiles and other armament to allow them to shut down the canal any time they want.
China owns the debt they saddled Panama with.
Prolly as happy as a US College student to learn not to worry about that any more.
Here, let me break it down for you. Your gal lost. We have been unburdened by what has been.
Don’t like it? No problem. Find your candidate, print your signs. Put em in your yard or a bumper sticker on your truck and wait for the next ballot to appear in the mail.
Prolly as happy as a US College student to learn not to worry about that any more.
Here, let me break it down for you. Your gal lost. We have been unburdened by what has been.
Don’t like it? No problem. Find your candidate, print your signs. Put em in your yard or a bumper sticker on your truck and wait for the next ballot to appear in the mail.
And some of use enjoy watching all you TDS sufferers getting your panties all in a bunch in desperate attempts to attack every single thing he does. Constitutional Crises!!!!!
You actually believe that the Orange Man Bad is doing something good? Perhaps this is the very first step in your recovery? Your life will be so much better when you are fully cured.
This seems to be a step in the right direction.
"It’s not the only action concerning the ports. Two attorneys filed suit against the Hutchison contract Feb. 3, alleging it violates the country’s constitution. One of the attorneys, Norman Castro, said the concession contains excessive tax breaks and cedes large swaths of land to the port company, violating the constitution’s guarantee of placing the public good over private interests."
Panama Considers Canceling Port Deal With Hong Kong Firm - TT
Panama is weighing whether to cancel its contract with the Hong Kong-based company that operates ports near the Panama Canal, according to people with knowledge of the situation.
Initiating an audit seems like a good move too.
Panama Audits Hong Kong Port Operator in Wake of Trump’s Canal Threats
Panama’s government and President José Raúl Mulino have repeatedly denied that there is any Chinese presence at the canal.
Would you approve of trump ordering the forceful re-taking of the canal?
(Btw, this is the first time I've mentioned trump. It seems you guys are a bit defensive about questioning any policy by this particular president. A policy that may unnecessarily escalate global tensions in a place that has had no such concerns since Panama took over control).
Is military conquest here okay with you? The president hasn't ruled it out and has stated it's a possibility.
Regarding pennies, and coins in general, I don't understand why the US has to mint so many in the first place. Where do they all go? Well, in part they go into that jar or piggy bank that probably every one of us has sitting on the counter. I do. Probably a couple hundred pennies in there.
So the next step, IMHO, should be an official call to every American to take their change jar to the bank and deposit it. Or get bills or whatever. Get all those coins back into circulation. If your bank will even take the coin. Used to be some banks had the coin counter right there, and you could just pour them in. And/or, you could get empty rolls and roll them up. Now it seems as if the banks don't want your coins. You have to go to a fee-charging machine somewhere to take them.
So yeah Trump, etc., make some hay out of it. Take your coins to the bank or grocery store or wherever! C'mon America, Unite!
Did you confuse me with someone else? Did you think I was somehow promoting that? Because I wasn't/am not.
There would need to be an obvious and overwhelming reason to think of using military force for a reason like that (retaking control of the canal), and I don't see that here. What I do see is several things being thrown out for effect and negotiating stances. Panama, Mexico, Canada, Greenland, tariffs, etc. Let's just hang tight for a while and see where it all goes before getting prematurely ejaculated over them.
That last bit was thrown in just for Loyal's benefit. LOL
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