Pac-12 Preseason Media Poll

[ScottHood]

Cougs picked to finish 4th in P12 North

Link: https://pac-12.com/article/2019/07/22/utah-picked-pac-12-favorite-preseason-media-poll

 

[COUGinNCW]

Cougs picked to finish 4th in P12 North

Link: https://pac-12.com/article/2019/07/22/utah-picked-pac-12-favorite-preseason-media-poll

#CVE

I’d rather our boys feel disrespected.

 

[SDCoug]

The perfect spot for us.

 

[etowncoug]

I don't see how anyone remotely object can put Stanford ahead of us. But agree with SD, #CVE got lots of fuel for the fire.

Hope we still start out ranked in the top 25 though. That actually will help recruiting. Getting crapped on by the local press doesn't help.

 

[mikalalas]

Funny how CBS, and other National rankers, put WSU at #10 in national preseason poll, and #2 in Pac 12 North.

That doesnt seem to jive with Pac 12 foolishly putting WSU #4 in Pac 12 North, when WSU should be #2 in Pac 12 North, #3 at worst.

Basically the IGNORAMUS PAC 12 media thinks WSU should finish #4 in Pac 12 North, and about #6,7,8,9,10 in Pac 12 overall

Pac 12 media showing off their uninformed, biased, stupidity.

Hey at least it puts a chip on WSU shoulders.

 

[random soul]

Trees are overrated. I'd put us and Cal ahead of them. Even if I'm underestimating the quality of Stanford's team, their schedule is savage

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Funny how CBS, and other National rankers, put WSU at #10 in national preseason poll, and #2 in Pac 12 North.

That doesnt seem to jive with Pac 12 foolishly putting WSU #4 in Pac 12 North, when WSU should be #2 in Pac 12 North, #3 at worst.

Basically the IGNORAMUS PAC 12 media thinks WSU should finish #4 in Pac 12 North, and about #6,7,8,9,10 in Pac 12 overall

Pac 12 media showing off their uninformed, biased, stupidity.

Hey at least it puts a chip on WSU shoulders.

Not sure where you saw that CBS put WSU at #10 in the 2019 preseason poll. The version I saw put us at #21. ESPN was the most optimistic and they've moved us to #19 in their most recent poll......behind, Oregon (10), UW (15), and Stanford (17). They also have us behind Utah (16).

As for the comment above by etowncoug about Stanford, it's important to remember that Wulff was a fresh face at WSU in 2008 the last time that Stanford didn't post 8+ wins and they still have a better record over the past four seasons than us (40-14 vs 37-15). People have been predicting the downfall of the Cardinal for a long time and they keep on winning. We've owned them head to head recently but they've been the better team outside of those head to head matches. Stanford is 39-11 against teams outside of us and we are 34-14. Both good records but clearly the Cardinal have the edge.

That matters when it comes to rankings. If Gardner was back, I'd bet you'd see WSU at #2 in the Pac-12 predictions and you'd see more polls with us in the Top 15.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Not sure where you saw that CBS put WSU at #10 in the 2019 preseason poll. The version I saw put us at #21. ESPN was the most optimistic and they've moved us to #19 in their most recent poll......behind, Oregon (10), UW (15), and Stanford (17). They also have us behind Utah (16).

As for the comment above by etowncoug about Stanford, it's important to remember that Wulff was a fresh face at WSU in 2008 the last time that Stanford didn't post 8+ wins and they still have a better record over the past four seasons than us (40-14 vs 37-15). People have been predicting the downfall of the Cardinal for a long time and they keep on winning. We've owned them head to head recently but they've been the better team outside of those head to head matches. Stanford is 39-11 against teams outside of us and we are 34-14. Both good records but clearly the Cardinal have the edge.

That matters when it comes to rankings. If Gardner was back, I'd bet you'd see WSU at #2 in the Pac-12 predictions and you'd see more polls with us in the Top 15.

Losing Jalen Thompson was a major loss.

 

[kougkurt]

Losing Jalen Thompson was a major loss.

And Jamir

 

[BiggsCoug]

It's better than it has been historically. I am at a loss as to why Oregon gets so much respect while doing so little with so much.

 

[fingerdisco]

And we will either do better or worse

And Jamir

Kid hasn’t even stepped on the practice field yet, so it’s a bit premature to say he’s a loss that’s negatively impacting preseason rankings

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Losing Jalen Thompson was a major loss.

I agree and frankly, it will be interesting to see what kind of impacts that has on the national polls right before the season. Of course, that kind of reinforces my point I made to mikalalas. Those national polls aren't as favorable as he thinks, they generally reflect the Pac-12 media rankings and they didn't factor in the loss of Thompson, which has the potential to significantly weaken our secondary.

I have absolutely zero issue with us being ranked 4th. This season has the potential to be a wild ride with our W/L total having the potential of as few as 5 regular season wins to as many as 12.

Expected Wins
NMSU, Northern Colorado, Colorado, OSU - any losses to these schools would be a major disappointment. Never say never, of course.

Probable Wins
Houston, Cal, UCLA - These are games that we could lose but should be favored to win. Cal kicked our butts in 2017 in this kind of scenario, so you definitely don't take anything for granted.

Toss Ups
ASU, Stanford - These are games that will be just too darned close to call. We've often struggled in Tempe (2-8 since 1997) so even though I believe we have the better team, I'm nervous. Stanford has a seasoned QB but so many questions that given our recent success, I'm tempted to move them to probable win. It's a fine line here. I'm not a real fan of Costello but some QB's need a year to really get going.

Probable Losses
Utah, Oregon, UW - These are games where we will likely be underdogs. Leach has some kind of voodoo on both Utah and Oregon, with us winning four straight against both even though there are a couple of those games where Utah was arguably the better team (2013 & 2014) but we got by them anyway. Oregon is baffling. To some degree, they feel like a poor man's UCLA.....the new place where all americans go to get soft. From a talent and experience perspective, both Utah and Oregon should be good, but they've both found ways to lose games in the last 2-3 years that better teams don't lose. UW is a probable loss until we can start beating them. BTW, our fans need to quit wishing for bad weather in the Apple Cup.....it doesn't help us.

 

[mikalalas]

There is a buried by now whole thread with a link to 1 of the major sports news media, either CBS, ESPN, Athlon, etc(Pretty sure it was CBS), that ranked WSU #10.

But also they may have changed the ranking from #10 to lower in the most recent polls, and if so, because of losing Jalen Thompson.

 

[mikalalas]

No way in hell would WSU under Leach, with this years team, with GAGE GUBRUD, The best WR CORP IN PAC 12, #5 WR CORP IN NATION, ONLY wins 5 games.

Only way WSU would only win 5 games, is Gage, and Gordon both get injured(and even then that might not be enough as even Tinsley, Cooper could probably grind out 6,7 wins)

And Max Borghi and Mc Intosh, 1 or both would have to also get injured in addition to the QB's

And Tay, Patmon, Easop Winston, would all 3 have to get injured, in addition to QB's, Max Borghi, and even then the remaining WR's might still be good enough.

Or if that didnt happen on offense, enough injuries on defense, especially on either the DL or Secondary, as LB could weather a injury or 2 there.

And even then if the defense got injured, the offense might semi probably win.

There is a reason why one of the national rankers ranked WSU #10 in the nation.

There is a reason why the other rankers have WSU at about 17 to 27 in nation.

There is a reason why WSU WR CORP is ranked tied for 1st in Pac 12 and #5,6 in nation.

There is a reason why WSU has so many players on award watchlist, and highly favored odds wise to win those awards.

All that usually doesnt happen if the team only wins 5 games.

Talent, Situation, coaching, Schedule, etc, this is one of the BEST WSU teams ON PAPER.

Such a team, usually does not only win 5 games.

Thiis team will logically, rationally, reasonably, REALISTICALLY win 8,9, 8.5 games to 10,11, 10.5 games.

The Vegas over/under on wins for WSU is 8/8.5, with most, and smart money taking the over.

The only team on schedule that a probable, should lose loss, is Oregon.

UW lost their Defense, has to replace their defense, and their transfer QB starter(If starts), is a STONE STATUE, and while not bad, is about on par with WSU QB Gordon. And UW lost WR, Gaskins, etc.

The fuskies will probably win about 5,6 5.5 to 7,8, 7.5 games with 6.5 wins as Over/Under.

That is not a team that's a Probable Should Lose To team.

And Utah is overrated. Their offense wont be that good. They are like Cal, in that Utah has a awesome defense.

I see only 2 lossses, throw in the proverbial 1 loss WSU shouldnt lose and I see at least a 9-3 season.

And certainly not a only win 5 games season(Except for massive injuries, etc)

WSU will win at least 7,8 games, and will not only win 5 games, and if that were to happen, I will LITERALLY EAT MY WORDS(Except for Massive Injuries causing the only winning 5 games)

 

[Flatlandcoug]

There is a buried by now whole thread with a link to 1 of the major sports news media, either CBS, ESPN, Athlon, etc(Pretty sure it was CBS), that ranked WSU #10.

But also they may have changed the ranking from #10 to lower in the most recent polls, and if so, because of losing Jalen Thompson.

Not saying you didn't see it somewhere, but on April 19th, their poll had WSU at #21, long before losing Jalen Thompson was a thing.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...r-clemson-post-spring-florida-and-texas-rise/

ESPN had us as high as #14 that I recall, but as I said above, they currently place us at #19. I get your annoyance with the media and it's frustrating that WSU isn't given the benefit of the doubt as much as Stanford, Oregon and UW. Still, there's nothing wrong with being satisfied with our program being considered 4th in the North and 6th overall in a Pac-12 preseason poll. Some of us remember the days that unless we were returning everyone, we were picked last. Leach has done a tremendous job of raising our profile to the point where the media has to acknowledge that failing to believe in WSU is now risky business.

 

[mikalalas]

Also to deal with losing Thompson, WSU is moving Thomas to Strong Safety, his natural, strongest best position.

Beekman the JC transfer Safety is doing Awesome. So Beekman will start at Free Safety. At least thats what a number of sources, news, like, including Brand X, has said, with linked cited credible sources.

So while losing Jalen Thompson, sucks, hurts some, WSU should be just fine with Beekman, Thomas.

The only real problem with losing Jalen Thompson, is his experience, talent, leadership, etc, but more importantly a LACK OF DEPTH BEHIND BEEKMAN, THOMAS.

If either Beekman, Thomas get injured......

 

[Flatlandcoug]

No way in hell would WSU under Leach, with this years team, with GAGE GUBRUD, The best WR CORP IN PAC 12, #5 WR CORP IN NATION, ONLY wins 5 games.

Only way WSU would only win 5 games, is Gage, and Gordon both get injured(and even then that might not be enough as even Tinsley, Cooper could probably grind out 6,7 wins)

And Max Borghi and Mc Intosh, 1 or both would have to also get injured in addition to the QB's

And Tay, Patmon, Easop Winston, would all 3 have to get injured, in addition to QB's, Max Borghi, and even then the remaining WR's might still be good enough.

Or if that didnt happen on offense, enough injuries on defense, especially on either the DL or Secondary, as LB could weather a injury or 2 there.

And even then if the defense got injured, the offense might semi probably win.

There is a reason why one of the national rankers ranked WSU #10 in the nation.

There is a reason why the other rankers have WSU at about 17 to 27 in nation.

There is a reason why WSU WR CORP is ranked tied for 1st in Pac 12 and #5,6 in nation.

There is a reason why WSU has so many players on award watchlist, and highly favored odds wise to win those awards.

All that usually doesnt happen if the team only wins 5 games.

Talent, Situation, coaching, Schedule, etc, this is one of the BEST WSU teams ON PAPER.

Such a team, usually does not only win 5 games.

Thiis team will logically, rationally, reasonably, REALISTICALLY win 8,9, 8.5 games to 10,11, 10.5 games.

The Vegas over/under on wins for WSU is 8/8.5, with most, and smart money taking the over.

The only team on schedule that a probable, should lose loss, is Oregon.

UW lost their Defense, has to replace their defense, and their transfer QB starter(If starts), is a STONE STATUE, and while not bad, is about on par with WSU QB Gordon. And UW lost WR, Gaskins, etc.

The fuskies will probably win about 5,6 5.5 to 7,8, 7.5 games with 6.5 wins as Over/Under.

That is not a team that's a Probable Should Lose To team.

And Utah is overrated. Their offense wont be that good. They are like Cal, in that Utah has a awesome defense.

I see only 2 lossses, throw in the proverbial 1 loss WSU shouldnt lose and I see at least a 9-3 season.

And certainly not a only win 5 games season(Except for massive injuries, etc)

WSU will win at least 7,8 games, and will not only win 5 games, and if that were to happen, I will LITERALLY EAT MY WORDS(Except for Massive Injuries causing the only winning 5 games)

Wow......I really fired up the locomotive. I don't expect us to win only five games....so don't get yourself into a twist. I said that we could end up with something between 5 and 12 wins, which is a very broad range. As far as you talking too much about what happened in 2018 (for WSU and others), I would suggest that you google "Mike Leach Baylor Locker Room" and watch the video.

At one point, he was chastising the players about focusing on the prior year and yells out, "THAT WAS LAST ****IN' YEAR!". In 1997, WSU went 10-1 and nearly knocked off eventual champion Michigan in the Rose Bowl. We finished 10-2 and in the Top 10. We lost a lot of talent after that season but I'd bet that there isn't a single WSU fan that would have ever guessed that we would finish 0-8 in conference in 1998. In 2004, we had a team that had gone 30-8 in the prior three seasons with three straight Top 10 finishes. We went 5-6 and we were only a few scores away from being only 2-9 in 2004. Of course, we were also only a few plays away from 8-3. Struggles at the QB position combined with an inconsistent defense wrecked that season.

You don't "KNOW" how this season will go. My O/U for this year is 8 so I agree that we are likely to have 7-8 wins this year...and maybe more. I like what Leach is doing and I believe that he is more effective at building a roster than Mike Price (and Doba) were. I don't believe that we have to worry too much about the losing seasons that we suffered back then. Still, I guarantee that you wouldn't have been able to find an Arizona Wildcat fan that predicted a 5-7 finish under Sumlin last year.

 

[etowncoug]

5 wins would mean something went seriously wrong because we are going to be a clear favorite in 7 games (6 of which are home). Even if they drop a game or two they shouldn't, Leach's teams have always won a game or two you wouldn't expect in the preseason.

 

[mikalalas]

5 wins would mean something went seriously wrong because we are going to be a clear favorite in 7 games (6 of which are home). Even if they drop a game or two they shouldn't, Leach's teams have always won a game or two you wouldn't expect in the preseason.

Exactly, this^^^^^^^.

And that something going wrong would probably be injuries.

If Thomas, Beekman, 1 or both get injured for a while, then WSU only win 6,7 games.

For only 5 wins to happen, would require LOTS of significant injuries to take out semi key starters for at least a while.

 

[etowncoug]

You are putting a lot of stock in the results of past coaches who couldn't build a consistent program. The 1998 squad returned only a couple of starters from the 1997 squad. I don't recall an expectation of the 1998 team having much success.
Leach has been much more consistent. The rant you reference was Leach getting upset with a team that won 8 games. Kicking around a 5 win season ignores Leach's history, he's only finished with fewer than 6 wins twice and those were with Wulff's players.

Wow......I really fired up the locomotive. I don't expect us to win only five games....so don't get yourself into a twist. I said that we could end up with something between 5 and 12 wins, which is a very broad range. As far as you talking too much about what happened in 2018 (for WSU and others), I would suggest that you google "Mike Leach Baylor Locker Room" and watch the video.

At one point, he was chastising the players about focusing on the prior year and yells out, "THAT WAS LAST ****IN' YEAR!". In 1997, WSU went 10-1 and nearly knocked off eventual champion Michigan in the Rose Bowl. We finished 10-2 and in the Top 10. We lost a lot of talent after that season but I'd bet that there isn't a single WSU fan that would have ever guessed that we would finish 0-8 in conference in 1998. In 2004, we had a team that had gone 30-8 in the prior three seasons with three straight Top 10 finishes. We went 5-6 and we were only a few scores away from being only 2-9 in 2004. Of course, we were also only a few plays away from Struggles at the QB position combined with an inconsistent defense wrecked that season.

You don't "KNOW" how this season will go. My O/U for this year is 8 so I agree that we are likely to have 7-8 wins this year...and maybe more. I like what Leach is doing and I believe that he is more effective at building a roster than Mike Price (and Doba) were. I don't believe that we have to worry too much about the losing seasons that we suffered back then. Still, I guarantee that you wouldn't have been able to find an Arizona Wildcat fan that predicted a 5-7 finish under Sumlin last year.

 

[Glad Cougar]

It's better than it has been historically. I am at a loss as to why Oregon gets so much respect while doing so little with so much.

UO hype machine in overdrive.....tends to reel in fans and media. Check out OregonLive and marvel at all the Duck recruiting articles written. It seems like the top 5 players at every position are wanting to come to Eugene. Frankly, I love it. The heightened expectations more often than not end up leaving Duck fans disappointed as the season goes on. It also results in players crying on the field when someone like WSU pummels them. It's always possible they put it all together this year, but there's nothing in the past couple of years to suggest that they are as good as they think they are.

Glad Cougar

 

[BiggsCoug]

UO hype machine in overdrive.....tends to reel in fans and media. Check out OregonLive and marvel at all the Duck recruiting articles written. It seems like the top 5 players at every position are wanting to come to Eugene. Frankly, I love it. The heightened expectations more often than not end up leaving Duck fans disappointed as the season goes on. It also results in players crying on the field when someone like WSU pummels them. It's always possible they put it all together this year, but there's nothing in the past couple of years to suggest that they are as good as they think they are.

Glad Cougar

They have a collection of kids more concerned with their stars, IG selfies, building their own brand. What they do not have is a collection of all day tough, hard nosed, quality coached ball players.

 

[roses04]

I agree and frankly, it will be interesting to see what kind of impacts that has on the national polls right before the season. Of course, that kind of reinforces my point I made to mikalalas. Those national polls aren't as favorable as he thinks, they generally reflect the Pac-12 media rankings and they didn't factor in the loss of Thompson, which has the potential to significantly weaken our secondary.

I have absolutely zero issue with us being ranked 4th. This season has the potential to be a wild ride with our W/L total having the potential of as few as 5 regular season wins to as many as 12.

Expected Wins
NMSU, Northern Colorado, Colorado, OSU - any losses to these schools would be a major disappointment. Never say never, of course.

Probable Wins
Houston, Cal, UCLA - These are games that we could lose but should be favored to win. Cal kicked our butts in 2017 in this kind of scenario, so you definitely don't take anything for granted.

Toss Ups
ASU, Stanford - These are games that will be just too darned close to call. We've often struggled in Tempe (2-8 since 1997) so even though I believe we have the better team, I'm nervous. Stanford has a seasoned QB but so many questions that given our recent success, I'm tempted to move them to probable win. It's a fine line here. I'm not a real fan of Costello but some QB's need a year to really get going.

Probable Losses
Utah, Oregon, UW - These are games where we will likely be underdogs. Leach has some kind of voodoo on both Utah and Oregon, with us winning four straight against both even though there are a couple of those games where Utah was arguably the better team (2013 & 2014) but we got by them anyway. Oregon is baffling. To some degree, they feel like a poor man's UCLA.....the new place where all americans go to get soft. From a talent and experience perspective, both Utah and Oregon should be good, but they've both found ways to lose games in the last 2-3 years that better teams don't lose. UW is a probable loss until we can start beating them. BTW, our fans need to quit wishing for bad weather in the Apple Cup.....it doesn't help us.

I see the schedule the same way, the other problem with Utah, Oregon and UW, is they are all on the road. When your 3 toughest games are on the road, hard to project more than 1 win out of the bunch. But Leach's teams typically play well on the road. And until we beat the UW, I will put this game down as a loss.

 

[kayak15]

Losing Jalen Thompson was a major loss.

Agree. And Pelluer graduating too leaves us with a leadership void right down the middle of the defense. We can replace those two for better or worse athletically but need some on the field to pick up the leadership mantle.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You are putting a lot of stock in the results of past coaches who couldn't build a consistent program. The 1998 squad returned only a couple of starters from the 1997 squad. I don't recall an expectation of the 1998 team having much success.
Leach has been much more consistent. The rant you reference was Leach getting upset with a team that won 8 games. Kicking around a 5 win season ignores Leach's history, he's only finished with fewer than 6 wins twice and those were with Wulff's players.

First, you are spending a lot of time focusing on the fact that I said our bottom end is 5 wins while ignoring that I can see us going undefeated. I'm not some predictor of doom that thinks that five wins is likely. It's just as likely as us going undefeated.

For those of you that just "know" that 5 wins can't happen......trust me....it can. WSU was 6-1 in 1988 and managed to lose 4 straight games when we lost a key player. For us, we all know that the QB situation is our big question mark. In 1993, WSU was 5-2 and we were all feeling good. Our QB, Mike Pattinson, goes down with an injury and we lose the last four games of the season. Gabe Gubrud has been injured a couple times. What if all of our other QB's just happen to be either a) not good or b) not ready? and he gets hurt in the 1st quarter of the Houston game. We lose a close game there, beat UCLA, but lose to Utah and ASU (potentially tricky games) and we are sitting at 3-3 in the middle of the season. We get by Colorado but fall to Oregon and Cal (both on the road) and we are sitting at 4-5. We have to play Stanford, OSU and UW to finish the season. If you don't think that 5-7 can happen to decent teams....you haven't been paying attention.

Again, it's the bottom end of where I see us failing, and frankly, that's a two game improvement over the worst case scenarios that were thrown out last year, so as far as I'm concerned, the fact that barely missing a bowl game is unlikely and would be alarming to fans tells you how far we've come since 2011.

 

[fingerdisco]

Agree. And Pelluer graduating too leaves us with a leadership void right down the middle of the defense. We can replace those two for better or worse athletically but need some on the field to pick up the leadership mantle.

It’s time for Jahad to shine.

 

[etowncoug]

We can agree 12-0 is about as likely as 5-7.

I don't see the QB situation as a big question mark. Gubrud has talent to spare and Leach's confidence. Tinsley and Gordon have spent three years in the QB room and are ready as well. If all three get hurt and Cooper gets thrown into action maybe we are in trouble, but the position has real depth. The difference between Price and Leach has been the ability to win in November which goes back to depth. I don't see a position on the field where one key injury wrecks the season except for maybe NT.

First, you are spending a lot of time focusing on the fact that I said our bottom end is 5 wins while ignoring that I can see us going undefeated. I'm not some predictor of doom that thinks that five wins is likely. It's just as likely as us going undefeated.

For those of you that just "know" that 5 wins can't happen......trust me....it can. WSU was 6-1 in 1988 and managed to lose 4 straight games when we lost a key player. For us, we all know that the QB situation is our big question mark. In 1993, WSU was 5-2 and we were all feeling good. Our QB, Mike Pattinson, goes down with an injury and we lose the last four games of the season. Gabe Gubrud has been injured a couple times. What if all of our other QB's just happen to be either a) not good or b) not ready? and he gets hurt in the 1st quarter of the Houston game. We lose a close game there, beat UCLA, but lose to Utah and ASU (potentially tricky games) and we are sitting at 3-3 in the middle of the season. We get by Colorado but fall to Oregon and Cal (both on the road) and we are sitting at 4-5. We have to play Stanford, OSU and UW to finish the season. If you don't think that 5-7 can happen to decent teams....you haven't been paying attention.

Again, it's the bottom end of where I see us failing, and frankly, that's a two game improvement over the worst case scenarios that were thrown out last year, so as far as I'm concerned, the fact that barely missing a bowl game is unlikely and would be alarming to fans tells you how far we've come since 2011.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

We can agree 12-0 is about as likely as 5-7.

I don't see the QB situation as a big question mark. Gubrud has talent to spare and Leach's confidence. Tinsley and Gordon have spent three years in the QB room and are ready as well. If all three get hurt and Cooper gets thrown into action maybe we are in trouble, but the position has real depth. The difference between Price and Leach has been the ability to win in November which goes back to depth. I don't see a position on the field where one key injury wrecks the season except for maybe NT.

Again, I think it's improbable that we have a 5 win season. Gardner obviously elevated the team to a point where we hadn't been under Leach and it will be hard to replicate that, but last season, coupled with Leach's history at Tech, does give me comfort in thinking that we still have a 7 to 9 win team without having someone suggest that I'm delusional. I was talking to a co-worker about KSU and WSU and Leach is doing the same type of thing at WSU that Snyder built at KSU in the 90's. He crafted a disciplined team that beat most opponents simply by executing at a higher level. Less talent.....more thought. Much like KSU, we've struggled against the top team in the conference, which has held us back. I'm curious to see if 2018 was the start of an 11 win run like KSU had. The Wildcats won 11 games in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002 and 2003. If not for a freak loss in the 1998 Big 12 championship game, they would have been playing for a national championship. I'm hoping that we can mirror that but not lose that conference championship game when our moment comes.

 

[mikalalas]

First, you are spending a lot of time focusing on the fact that I said our bottom end is 5 wins while ignoring that I can see us going undefeated. I'm not some predictor of doom that thinks that five wins is likely. It's just as likely as us going undefeated.

For those of you that just "know" that 5 wins can't happen......trust me....it can. WSU was 6-1 in 1988 and managed to lose 4 straight games when we lost a key player. For us, we all know that the QB situation is our big question mark. In 1993, WSU was 5-2 and we were all feeling good. Our QB, Mike Pattinson, goes down with an injury and we lose the last four games of the season. Gabe Gubrud has been injured a couple times. What if all of our other QB's just happen to be either a) not good or b) not ready? and he gets hurt in the 1st quarter of the Houston game. We lose a close game there, beat UCLA, but lose to Utah and ASU (potentially tricky games) and we are sitting at 3-3 in the middle of the season. We get by Colorado but fall to Oregon and Cal (both on the road) and we are sitting at 4-5. We have to play Stanford, OSU and UW to finish the season. If you don't think that 5-7 can happen to decent teams....you haven't been paying attention.

Again, it's the bottom end of where I see us failing, and frankly, that's a two game improvement over the worst case scenarios that were thrown out last year, so as far as I'm concerned, the fact that barely missing a bowl game is unlikely and would be alarming to fans tells you how far we've come since 2011.

It was 1989, remember it well. 1988 had Tim Rosenbach. Also seriously doubt that team would have only won 5 games. And would have probably won 6 games without Tim.

And thats the reason why 1989 team altho losing a Key player, losing 4 straight, STILL didnt only win 5 games and won at least 6 games.

As for either the 1991 or 1993 season where Mike Pattinson went down and lost the last 4 straight games to finish 5-6, that is on Price because there is no doubt that Leach would have won at least 6,7 games instead of 5, and WSU had if I remember right Aaron Garcia, Brad Gossen, etc, who were either almost just as good as Mike Pattinson, or good enough thst theu should have bern able to win at least 6,7,8 games and have gone to a bowl game, Mike Price and those players really underachieved that year, even with the injury to Mike Pattinson.

I, others, we get why you think this, based on past history.

Thing is tho this is NOT like the past.

THIS IS MIKE FCKING LEACH

And this is OME OF THE DEEPEST BEST TEAMS WSU HAS HAD IN A SINGLE SEASON ON PAPER PRESEASON, RANKINGS, TALENT, COACHING, ETC.

While not a good comparison, Alabama is the closest thing I can think of right now.

Alabama could lose a QB or 2, suffer key injuries, and would still win 10, 11,12 games, because its Alabama, the depth, talent SABAN, etc.

And while I am not saying WSU is like a Alabama in Pac 12 this season, it WSU is Semi Alabama Esque this season, in that WSU could lose, have injured, both Gage, Gordon, Borghi, 1,2,3 starting WR, 1 starting OL, 1 starter at each of DL, LB, Secondary, eben one of either Thomas or Beekman, ALL COMBINED, AT DAME TIME and STILL COULD GRIND OUT 6,7 WINS SEMI ALABAMA ESQUE WISE.

And thats saying something that it would take MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF LOTS OF INJURIES to have WSU only win 5 games

Basically there is a .03% chance, probability, that WSU only wins 5 games.

Is it theoretically possible? Yes. Will it happen? No

Just like with Alabama. Could Alabama theoretically only win 5,6,7,8,9 games, if Alabama suffered a massive amount of, lots of injuries ? Yes, Would that happen? No

And before you say that WSU is not that good.

Either Soonerhea or a poster like a Soonerhea, posted a link to at least a semi credible, semi popular, media expert, pundit,ranker like a Ken Pom, etc, that ranked WSU at either #10 in nation same as the CBS like one that ranked WSU #10 in nation, or #5 in nation, and 5th behind only Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Notre Dame to goto play offs, win national championship.

Yes they thought, think WSU can, has a high chance of going to playoffs, playing in, winning the National Championship.

Or at least did until Jalen Thompson happened.

That was also not some WSU fan, etc, but a neutral, objective, semi credible, semi popular expert, pundit, ranker, poll, etc.

A team like that that is ranked between #5 to #27.

A team that has players on watchlist, highly havored to win prestigous awards at almost every position(Outland, Rimington, etc)

A team that has the 5,6th best WR Corp in nation, and either best, tied for best WR Corp ever in WSU history ON PAPER.

A team like that does not only win 5 games.

Heck even my mother could probably QB WSU to 5 wins with Leach, OL, WR Corp, Air Raid, how good this WSU team is.

The thing you have got to get is:

THIS IS NOT THE SAME POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU IN, OF THE PAST THAT WOULD, COULD ONLY WIN 5 GAMES, WITH A GOOD TEAM, WITH A KEY INJURY, ETC

THIS IS A DIFFERENT WSU WITH MIKE FCKIN LEACH, WITH ONE OF THE BEST WSU TEAMS EVER IN ALL OF WSU HISTORY ON PAPER, TALENT, COACHING, ETC, WISE

Is it theoretically possible for WSU to only win 5? Yes.

Will, would that happen? HELL NO

And since thats the case l, then you dont need to mention, bring up WSU only winning 5 games, even as a part of a range.

Thats POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU LOSER CULTURE MENTALITY.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

It was 1989, remember it well. 1988 had Tim Rosenbach. Also seriously doubt that team would have only won 5 games. And would have probably won 6 games without Tim.

And thats the reason why 1989 team altho losing a Key player, losing 4 straight, STILL didnt only win 5 games and won at least 6 games.

As for either the 1991 or 1993 season where Mike Pattinson went down and lost the last 4 straight games to finish 5-6, that is on Price because there is no doubt that Leach would have won at least 6,7 games instead of 5, and WSU had if I remember right Aaron Garcia, Brad Gossen, etc, who were either almost just as good as Mike Pattinson, or good enough thst theu should have bern able to win at least 6,7,8 games and have gone to a bowl game, Mike Price and those players really underachieved that year, even with the injury to Mike Pattinson.

I, others, we get why you think this, based on past history.

Thing is tho this is NOT like the past.

THIS IS MIKE FCKING LEACH

And this is OME OF THE DEEPEST BEST TEAMS WSU HAS HAD IN A SINGLE SEASON ON PAPER PRESEASON, RANKINGS, TALENT, COACHING, ETC.

While not a good comparison, Alabama is the closest thing I can think of right now.

Alabama could lose a QB or 2, suffer key injuries, and would still win 10, 11,12 games, because its Alabama, the depth, talent SABAN, etc.

And while I am not saying WSU is like a Alabama in Pac 12 this season, it WSU is Semi Alabama Esque this season, in that WSU could lose, have injured, both Gage, Gordon, Borghi, 1,2,3 starting WR, 1 starting OL, 1 starter at each of DL, LB, Secondary, eben one of either Thomas or Beekman, ALL COMBINED, AT DAME TIME and STILL COULD GRIND OUT 6,7 WINS SEMI ALABAMA ESQUE WISE.

And thats saying something that it would take MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF LOTS OF INJURIES to have WSU only win 5 games

Basically there is a .03% chance, probability, that WSU only wins 5 games.

Is it theoretically possible? Yes. Will it happen? No

Just like with Alabama. Could Alabama theoretically only win 5,6,7,8,9 games, if Alabama suffered a massive amount of, lots of injuries ? Yes, Would that happen? No

And before you say that WSU is not that good.

Either Soonerhea or a poster like a Soonerhea, posted a link to at least a semi credible, semi popular, media expert, pundit,ranker like a Ken Pom, etc, that ranked WSU at either #10 in nation same as the CBS like one that ranked WSU #10 in nation, or #5 in nation, and 5th behind only Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Notre Dame to goto play offs, win national championship.

Yes they thought, think WSU can, has a high chance of going to playoffs, playing in, winning the National Championship.

Or at least did until Jalen Thompson happened.

That was also not some WSU fan, etc, but a neutral, objective, semi credible, semi popular expert, pundit, ranker, poll, etc.

A team like that that is ranked between #5 to #27.

A team that has players on watchlist, highly havored to win prestigous awards at almost every position(Outland, Rimington, etc)

A team that has the 5,6th best WR Corp in nation, and either best, tied for best WR Corp ever in WSU history ON PAPER.

A team like that does not only win 5 games.

Heck even my mother could probably QB WSU to 5 wins with Leach, OL, WR Corp, Air Raid, how good this WSU team is.

The thing you have got to get is:

THIS IS NOT THE SAME POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU IN, OF THE PAST THAT WOULD, COULD ONLY WIN 5 GAMES, WITH A GOOD TEAM, WITH A KEY INJURY, ETC

THIS IS A DIFFERENT WSU WITH MIKE FCKIN LEACH, WITH ONE OF THE BEST WSU TEAMS EVER IN ALL OF WSU HISTORY ON PAPER, TALENT, COACHING, ETC, WISE

Is it theoretically possible for WSU to only win 5? Yes.

Will, would that happen? HELL NO

And since thats the case l, then you dont need to mention, bring up WSU only winning 5 games, even as a part of a range.

Thats POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU LOSER CULTURE MENTALITY.

1989 it was....you'd think I'd get that right since it was my Freshman year. You just spent a lot of energy ignoring the past regardless. If you read what I posted above, us failing to make a bowl game is about as likely as us being undefeated and likely in the college football playoff. Both pretty unlikely this year. You can save your keyboard and summarize it with that.

 

[GrayOnGray]

I wonder if the media has ever over-estimated a Leach team. Under-estimated almost all the time, as I recall.

If they have ever pegged him too high at the beginning of the year, it hasn't been very much and the guy has been a head coach for quite a while.

Happy to be ranked fourth. Hoped for seven wins last year and that worked out all right. Thinking 8 regular season wins this year.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I wonder if the media has ever over-estimated a Leach team. Under-estimated almost all the time, as I recall.

If they have ever pegged him too high at the beginning of the year, it hasn't been very much and the guy has been a head coach for quite a while.

Happy to be ranked fourth. Hoped for seven wins last year and that worked out all right. Thinking 8 regular season wins this year.

This is a Rose Bowl year.

 

[HHusky]

This is a Rose Bowl year.

No. You play UCLA in Pullman.

 

[kougkurt]

No. You play UCLA in Pullman.

Hey H

 

[mikalalas]

This is a Rose Bowl year.

WSU Should go 8-4 at WORST, 9-3 at average, 10-2 at good, 11-1, etc at Ultimate best.

WSU should go to the Pac 12 2nd place Bowl, The Alamo Bowl, and win it, at WORST with a 8-4, 9-3 record. And Pac 12 3rd place bowl with a 8-5 record at ultimate worst.

WSU should go to either the Rosebowl, Cotton Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, NY6 bowl, with a 8-4(Down Pac 12), 9-3, 10-3, 10-2, record.

And WSU should win, finish 1,2 in Pac 12 North.

And WSU should go to the Pac 12 Championship game, and either win, lose a close Championship game.

And 3rd place in Pac 12, 3rd place Pac 12 Bowl, 8-5 at worst.

Anything less is, would be WSU UNDERACHIEVING.

Anything more like a 11-1, 12-1, 12-0, 11-2, going to playoffs, national championship, winning Rosebowl, Cottonbowl, Fiesta Bowl, playoff game, National Championship, etc, would be WSU OVERACHIEVING.

Also the games of the year would be Oregon, UW, as if WSU beats both Oregon, UW, WSU would probably win Pac 12 North, be about 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 12-0 record, go to Pac 12 championship game, win it, and go to either Rosebowl, Cotton Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, NY6 Bowl, Play Off game, and win them except for the play off game.

And this is not just WSU fans. There are some semi credible, semi popular, neutral, objective, semi expert, semi pundit, semi ESPN, Ken Pom like, polls, rankers, etc, that have put WSU at #5, #10, 17 to 29, say WSU has a high chance behind only Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Notre Dame, either Ohio State/Michigan,etc, to go to playoffs, win a play off game, go to National Championship game and even win it.

And that WSU should goto Alamo, Rosebowl, Cotton Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, NY6 Bowl with a 8-4, 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 12-1, 12-0 record.

Thats what they are saying, Not WSU fans, Not the stupid Pac 12 Media

Flat cites ESPN who had, has WSU at #14, #19 now, and CBS has WSU at #21, and that most are saying WSU is 19 to 29.

Well going by that, that, those kind of rankings usually equals about Alamo Bowl, Rosebowl, Cotton, Fiesta, NY6, Pac 12 3rd place bowl at worst, with a 8-5 record at worst, with a 9-3, 10-3 record, at average.

So not just WSU fans, Not just me, Not just Biggs.

This is Logical, reasonable, rational, REALISTIC ON PAPER.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

WSU Should go 8-4 at WORST, 9-3 at average, 10-2 at good, 11-1, etc at Ultimate best.

WSU should go to the Pac 12 2nd place Bowl, The Alamo Bowl, and win it, at WORST with a 8-4, 9-3 record. And Pac 12 3rd place bowl with a 8-5 record at ultimate worst.

WSU should go to either the Rosebowl, Cotton Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, NY6 bowl, with a 8-4(Down Pac 12), 9-3, 10-3, 10-2, record.

And WSU should win, finish 1,2 in Pac 12 North.

And WSU should go to the Pac 12 Championship game, and either win, lose a close Championship game.

And 3rd place in Pac 12, 3rd place Pac 12 Bowl, 8-5 at worst.

Anything less is, would be WSU UNDERACHIEVING.

Anything more like a 11-1, 12-1, 12-0, 11-2, going to playoffs, national championship, winning Rosebowl, Cottonbowl, Fiesta Bowl, playoff game, National Championship, etc, would be WSU OVERACHIEVING.

Also the games of the year would be Oregon, UW, as if WSU beats both Oregon, UW, WSU would probably win Pac 12 North, be about 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 12-0 record, go to Pac 12 championship game, win it, and go to either Rosebowl, Cotton Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, NY6 Bowl, Play Off game, and win them except for the play off game.

And this is not just WSU fans. There are some semi credible, semi popular, neutral, objective, semi expert, semi pundit, semi ESPN, Ken Pom like, polls, rankers, etc, that have put WSU at #5, #10, 17 to 29, say WSU has a high chance behind only Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Notre Dame, either Ohio State/Michigan,etc, to go to playoffs, win a play off game, go to National Championship game and even win it.

And that WSU should goto Alamo, Rosebowl, Cotton Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, NY6 Bowl with a 8-4, 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 12-1, 12-0 record.

Thats what they are saying, Not WSU fans, Not the stupid Pac 12 Media

Flat cites ESPN who had, has WSU at #14, #19 now, and CBS has WSU at #21, and that most are saying WSU is 19 to 29.

Well going by that, that, those kind of rankings usually equals about Alamo Bowl, Rosebowl, Cotton, Fiesta, NY6, Pac 12 3rd place bowl at worst, with a 8-5 record at worst, with a 9-3, 10-3 record, at average.

So not just WSU fans, Not just me, Not just Biggs.

This is Logical, reasonable, rational, REALISTIC ON PAPER.

Just out of curiousity, you are making a lot of bold statements about anything less than 8-4 being an underachievement. How long have you been a WSU fan? How long have you been watching college football?

We all get your point that Leach has built the program up a long way from where it was. However, winning football games is not easy. You may not realize it, but the other guys are trying too and some of them are pretty good at their jobs. Chip Kelly, Kevin Sumlin and David Shaw don't have the reputations that they have because they sucked at coaching. All three have experienced higher success than Leach.has ever experienced. Maybe you weren't paying attention last year when WSU was down late in the 4th quarter against Utah and needed a miraculous 89 yard TD to win the game. Maybe you don't remember what a dogfight the Alamo Bowl ended up being. Maybe you don't remember 5-7 Cal curb stomping us in 2017. Maybe that ass-kicking in the desert in 2017 at the hands of Arizona was on too late at night for you to have seen it. Perhaps you hadn't jumped on the WSU bandwagon when we lost to Portland F'ing State in 2015.

What I'm getting at is that any team, even a team coached by Mike Leach, can lose games that you wouldn't expect. Sometimes, like in 2014, it happens a lot in one season. When you look back at the last few years, there are always a few games that could go either way and fortunately for us, most of them have. That's never guaranteed and it's always possible that we get a year where we don't catch the breaks. None of us expects it to happen but when you start typing out 20 paragraph diatribes bragging about WSU football excellence and the inferiority of our foes, you start sounding a lot like a fan who would be better suited to wearing a purple t-shirt and telling us how great that 1991 Championship was and how nobody is better than UW. Don't be that guy. It's ok to be humble and respectful of your competition.

 

[BiggsCoug]

No. You play UCLA in Pullman.

lol. +2 for wit.

I wasn't referring to UCLA.

 

[mikalalas]

Just out of curiousity, you are making a lot of bold statements about anything less than 8-4 being an underachievement. How long have you been a WSU fan? How long have you been watching college football?

We all get your point that Leach has built the program up a long way from where it was. However, winning football games is not easy. You may not realize it, but the other guys are trying too and some of them are pretty good at their jobs. Chip Kelly, Kevin Sumlin and David Shaw don't have the reputations that they have because they sucked at coaching. All three have experienced higher success than Leach.has ever experienced. Maybe you weren't paying attention last year when WSU was down late in the 4th quarter against Utah and needed a miraculous 89 yard TD to win the game. Maybe you don't remember what a dogfight the Alamo Bowl ended up being. Maybe you don't remember 5-7 Cal curb stomping us in 2017. Maybe that ass-kicking in the desert in 2017 at the hands of Arizona was on too late at night for you to have seen it. Perhaps you hadn't jumped on the WSU bandwagon when we lost to Portland F'ing State in 2015.

What I'm getting at is that any team, even a team coached by Mike Leach, can lose games that you wouldn't expect. Sometimes, like in 2014, it happens a lot in one season. When you look back at the last few years, there are always a few games that could go either way and fortunately for us, most of them have. That's never guaranteed and it's always possible that we get a year where we don't catch the breaks. None of us expects it to happen but when you start typing out 20 paragraph diatribes bragging about WSU football excellence and the inferiority of our foes, you start sounding a lot like a fan who would be better suited to wearing a purple t-shirt and telling us how great that 1991 Championship was and how nobody is better than UW. Don't be that guy. It's ok to be humble and respectful of your competition.

You continue to ignore, not see, not hear, not read, not understand, etc, LOGIC, REASON, FACTS, RANKINGS, EXPERTS, ETC.

ON PAPER, this is 1 of the best teams ever in WSU history, TALENT, coaching, etc.

The PROOF:

WSU's recruits players are the highest star recruit rankings ever in WSU HISTORY as far as AVERAGE NUMBER OF STARS PER WSU RECRUIT, PLAYER.

This WSU team has the most players in, on prestigous Awards watchlist like Outland, Rimington, etc, at almost every player, team position, that are favored to win prestigous awards, then any WSU team in WSU history.

This is the highest preseason ranked WSU team in WSU history.

No other team in WSU History, has been ranked as high as #5, #10, #19 to 29, IN THE PRESEASON, ON PAPER, like this WSU team has.

No WSU team in WSU history has had a semi credible, semi popular, expert, pundit, like a Ken Pom, ESPN like, etc, that has said that only Clemson, Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia were the only teams with a better chance to goto playoffs, etc, like this WSU team has.

No other WSU team in WSU history has had a WSU WR CORP RANKED #5,6 IN NATION, TIED FOR #1 IN PAC 12, 2ND IN PAC 12 AT WORST, like this WSU team does, has.

No other team in WSU history has had this, as much talent, as good of coaching, as much experience, as much pretty much everything, anything measurable that is as good, as this WSU team is, had, has, etc.

Because of all the above, THIS WSU TEAM IS TECHNICALLY ON PAPER EITHER THE BEST WSU TEAM EVER IN WSU HISTORY, ON PAPER. OR 1 OF THE BEST TEAMS IN WSU HISTORY, ON PAPER.

Now whether this WSU team achieves what this WSU team is ON PAPER, and achieves its ON PAPER Potential, remains to be seen.

But a team with that kind of ON PAPERNESS, does not, should not only win 5 games, and should have at least a 8-5 record at worst, and goto, and win the 3rd place, Pac 12, 3rd place bowl at worst.

That is LOGICAL, REASONABLE, RATIONAL, REALISTIC REALITY.

And anything less then that is, would be UNDERACHIEVEMENT, MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF, LOTS OF INJURIES.

You are STUCK IN WSU'S PAST IN POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU LOSER CULTURE MENTALITY.

This is NOT THE PAST, WSU HISTORY.

THIS IS NOT POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU

THIS IS MIKE FCKIN LEACH

THIS IS THE FCKIN BEST WSU TEAM EVER ON PAPER TALENT, COACHING, FOR REASONS THAT EXPLAINED ABOVE.

You said, mentioned, say, keep mentioning WSU's past.

Well WSU's Past has no bearing on this season for the reason explained about.

And yes WSU can lose to ANY ONE OF THE PAC 12 teams, even Ore St.

What you dont seem to get, is that while WSU could lose to any Pac 12 team, etc, and that just because thats true, does NOT mean that WSU will, could, would, should, etc, do worse then 8-5 record.

And lets say WSU loses to Ore State, WSU would still win, have a 8-5 record at worst, unless WSU has massive amounts of LOTS of Injuries to LOTS of Key players.

This is the closest WSU has ever had to having a SEMI ALABAMA SEMI ESQUE SEMI LIKE SEMI PLUG AND PLAY CONSISTENT WINNING PROGRAM, PLAYERS, RECRUITS, GOOD COACHING, ETC

I EXPECT THAT WHEN, IF, SINCE LEACH, WSU GETS AT LEAST A 8-5 RECORD, THAT LEACH, WSU WILL GET AT LEAST A 8-5 RECORD EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT 1 TO 13 YEARS, UNTIL LEACH EITHER RETIRES, OR GOES SOMEWHERE ELSE TO COACH.

And anything less then that is, would be either underachieving, or Massive amounts of, Lots of injuries to lots of key players

 

[CougPatrol]

I don't see the QB situation as a big question mark. Gubrud has talent to spare and Leach's confidence. Tinsley and Gordon have spent three years in the QB room and are ready as well. If all three get hurt and Cooper gets thrown into action maybe we are in trouble, but the position has real depth.

I don't disagree entirely, but as of now, our QB position is a big question mark in terms of winning the North Division. UW doesn't have to get elite QB play to win the P12N. We haven't come close to beating them in the past 4 years when we've had great offensive teams, so picking us to finish ahead of them this season wasn't going to happen. UW their toughest league games, Oregon, USC, Utah, and WSU in Seattle this year. That's a huge advantage for them.

Oregon returns a highly regarded QB and most of their team from last year, and they play us in Eugene. Yes we've had their number of late, but I can see why they're picked ahead of us; especially by the National media. We mugged them in the 1st half last season, but once some of the Game Day emotion wore off, the game was dicey

Stanford is the team that I think we could have been picked ahead of, but they're still riding a National reputation that we don't have yet, and they always get great line play. This year they have an experienced QB, but I still would have picked WSU ahead of them.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You continue to ignore, not see, not hear, not read, not understand, etc, LOGIC, REASON, FACTS, RANKINGS, EXPERTS, ETC.

ON PAPER, this is 1 of the best teams ever in WSU history, TALENT, coaching, etc.

The PROOF:

WSU's recruits players are the highest star recruit rankings ever in WSU HISTORY as far as AVERAGE NUMBER OF STARS PER WSU RECRUIT, PLAYER.

This WSU team has the most players in, on prestigous Awards watchlist like Outland, Rimington, etc, at almost every player, team position, that are favored to win prestigous awards, then any WSU team in WSU history.

This is the highest preseason ranked WSU team in WSU history.

No other team in WSU History, has been ranked as high as #5, #10, #19 to 29, IN THE PRESEASON, ON PAPER, like this WSU team has.

No WSU team in WSU history has had a semi credible, semi popular, expert, pundit, like a Ken Pom, ESPN like, etc, that has said that only Clemson, Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia were the only teams with a better chance to goto playoffs, etc, like this WSU team has.

No other WSU team in WSU history has had a WSU WR CORP RANKED #5,6 IN NATION, TIED FOR #1 IN PAC 12, 2ND IN PAC 12 AT WORST, like this WSU team does, has.

No other team in WSU history has had this, as much talent, as good of coaching, as much experience, as much pretty much everything, anything measurable that is as good, as this WSU team is, had, has, etc.

Because of all the above, THIS WSU TEAM IS TECHNICALLY ON PAPER EITHER THE BEST WSU TEAM EVER IN WSU HISTORY, ON PAPER. OR 1 OF THE BEST TEAMS IN WSU HISTORY, ON PAPER.

Now whether this WSU team achieves what this WSU team is ON PAPER, and achieves its ON PAPER Potential, remains to be seen.

But a team with that kind of ON PAPERNESS, does not, should not only win 5 games, and should have at least a 8-5 record at worst, and goto, and win the 3rd place, Pac 12, 3rd place bowl at worst.

That is LOGICAL, REASONABLE, RATIONAL, REALISTIC REALITY.

And anything less then that is, would be UNDERACHIEVEMENT, MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF, LOTS OF INJURIES.

You are STUCK IN WSU'S PAST IN POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU LOSER CULTURE MENTALITY.

This is NOT THE PAST, WSU HISTORY.

THIS IS NOT POOR OLE LITTLE OLE WSU

THIS IS MIKE FCKIN LEACH

THIS IS THE FCKIN BEST WSU TEAM EVER ON PAPER TALENT, COACHING, FOR REASONS THAT EXPLAINED ABOVE.

You said, mentioned, say, keep mentioning WSU's past.

Well WSU's Past has no bearing on this season for the reason explained about.

And yes WSU can lose to ANY ONE OF THE PAC 12 teams, even Ore St.

What you dont seem to get, is that while WSU could lose to any Pac 12 team, etc, and that just because thats true, does NOT mean that WSU will, could, would, should, etc, do worse then 8-5 record.

And lets say WSU loses to Ore State, WSU would still win, have a 8-5 record at worst, unless WSU has massive amounts of LOTS of Injuries to LOTS of Key players.

This is the closest WSU has ever had to having a SEMI ALABAMA SEMI ESQUE SEMI LIKE SEMI PLUG AND PLAY CONSISTENT WINNING PROGRAM, PLAYERS, RECRUITS, GOOD COACHING, ETC

I EXPECT THAT WHEN, IF, SINCE LEACH, WSU GETS AT LEAST A 8-5 RECORD, THAT LEACH, WSU WILL GET AT LEAST A 8-5 RECORD EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT 1 TO 13 YEARS, UNTIL LEACH EITHER RETIRES, OR GOES SOMEWHERE ELSE TO COACH.

And anything less then that is, would be either underachieving, or Massive amounts of, Lots of injuries to lots of key players

While I appreciate your enthusiasm.....the 2019 team doesn't appear to be remotely close to the best WSU team in history. I don't know what kind of sauce you are on.....but no. The 2018 team set the record for wins in a season, but only a fool thinks that they were a better team than our 1997 team...or even our 2002 team. I'd take the 1997 or 2002 team head to head against the 2018 team anytime. The 2018 team was very good and had the potential be in the discussion, but getting waxed by the mutts for the sixth straight year and failing to win the conference knocks them out of a reasonable discussion for greatest WSU team ever. FWIW, you are the ONLY person suggesting that the 2019 team is better than last year. Everyone else in the world is expecting at least a minor regression. I hope that you are proven right and this is a great team, but your rants belittle the efforts of WSU teams in the past that accomplished things that no Leach team has done yet. Before we declare that Leach is the greatest coach in the history of the game, maybe it would be a good idea to actually win the conference? Price did it twice.....while facing elite competition in the conference. UCLA (#5) in 1997 and USC (#4) in 2002 were great teams that finished in the Top 5 in the final polls. Name the team that we've beaten in the past four years that is in the same discussion as those two teams.

For your ongoing delusion about where we are ranked.......I'd love for you to show me who has us ranked #5 right now. While you are ranting about that...you might want to refer back to 2002. If you go to the ESPN page, you'll see that WSU was ranked #7 in both the AP and Coaches poll in the preseason poll. That team reached as high as #3 in the rankings before losing to UW in the AC because of Gesser's injury. Most publications are thinking that we are a Top 25 team, I don't believe that there is any legitimate publication saying that we have a Top 10 team.

I'm thrilled with what Leach has done with our program. He consistently brings in "football players" that are hard workers and buy into his system. In every measurable way, he is the best coach that we've ever had when it comes to building a "Program" instead of a "Team". We all get that. Price was better at gaming the system at the time and landing the occasional great recruiting class, but he left WSU right as it appeared that he had finally really gotten it figured out. And I agree with you that we are unlikely to finish 5-7. That doesn't mean that you don't sound like a Husky douchebag when you type a bunch of rants in all caps. Show some humility and respect. Hope for the best but don't get yourself in such a twist that your Cougar soul is destroyed if we don't win 8+ games. And learn how to type more coherently. Christ man....settle down.