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Reading Between the Lines

SDCoug

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
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Hamilton, MT
I can't get the link to The video from CEK's post game interview but it's available from Thorpe's blog.

When discussing DKD's development he mentions that he wishes he could have had him as a freshman as he feels he would be further along. He may have been talking about his leadership ability. I'm not sure. I don't think Ernie would intentionally bag on the old regime but I read it is a knock on the old staff. Just further confirmation what so many already know.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Yeah and no. I don't know that it's necessarily a slam again Bone (remember there is still a coach from the previous regime still on staff) but Ernie Kent is a fairly confident man. He knows what he could have done.
 
What this year shows is Bone was a better recruiter than most gave him credit for but terrible developing talent or creating confidence. He didn't have much faith in the players he recruited and went slow-tempo. He went away from what he was good at because didn't think they could compete. He put rules on players that hurt or destroyed their confidence. He sucked the life out of the program.

Railey, Kernich-Drew, Hawkinson, Iroegbu, and Boese have all played much better than they were a year ago and it's not just a 'year older a year better.' Railey opted out of the lineup last year, Hawkinson and Boese never played, Kernich-Drew would have 1 in 10 good games, and Iroegbu played out of control.

Kent will need to recruit better but he's already done a better job in every other area from what we saw under Bone.
 
No comparison ,Kent is a quality D 1 coach. The other, well relegate him to history and move on.
 
Originally posted by SaveFerris:
What this year shows is Bone was a better recruiter than most gave him credit for but terrible developing talent or creating confidence. He didn't have much faith in the players he recruited and went slow-tempo. He went away from what he was good at because didn't think they could compete. He put rules on players that hurt or destroyed their confidence. He sucked the life out of the program.

Railey, Kernich-Drew, Hawkinson, Iroegbu, and Boese have all played much better than they were a year ago and it's not just a 'year older a year better.' Railey opted out of the lineup last year, Hawkinson and Boese never played, Kernich-Drew would have 1 in 10 good games, and Iroegbu played out of control.

Kent will need to recruit better but he's already done a better job in every other area from what we saw under Bone.
That's been my conclusion too: Bone was worse than I thought.
 
You're spot on when it comes to Ernie Kent except when it comes to defense. Hopefully he can get that corrected with some additional players. I look forward to Valentine blocking some shots. We saw with the UW that a shot blocker can vastly improve the entire defense.

All the rest of this team that will be returning need to get some defensive instruction.

The "vaunted" zone of Silvey's didn't last long this year.
 
Originally posted by 7ICoug:
You're spot on when it comes to Ernie Kent except when it comes to defense. Hopefully he can get that corrected with some additional players. I look forward to Valentine blocking some shots. We saw with the UW that a shot blocker can vastly improve the entire defense.

All the rest of this team that will be returning need to get some defensive instruction.

The "vaunted" zone of Silvey's didn't last long this year.
I don't think that we should hold up too much hope of having a good defensive team with Kent as our HC.

He is all about offense. It worked for him at Oregon.
 
Unfortunately, at Washington State, with less talent than others, usually, defense is paramount. Rhetorically, for the sake of argument (and clarity) when is the last time a Bennett-coached team was excused for poor performance because of "tired legs". Talent will only get you so far. Hard work, discipline and tenacity gets you to the finish line.
 
Originally posted by 7ICoug:
You're spot on when it comes to Ernie Kent except when it comes to defense. Hopefully he can get that corrected with some additional players. I look forward to Valentine blocking some shots. We saw with the UW that a shot blocker can vastly improve the entire defense.

All the rest of this team that will be returning need to get some defensive instruction.

The "vaunted" zone of Silvey's didn't last long this year.
Kent does want to have his team play better defense. But, these are college players with limited practice time. With the staff teaching the offense, and yes, Kent is first an offensive coach, it was too much for the players to handle also working on and running correctly all the defensive concepts. So, they scaled the defense back and will work on it more next season.
 
Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by 7ICoug:
You're spot on when it comes to Ernie Kent except when it comes to defense. Hopefully he can get that corrected with some additional players. I look forward to Valentine blocking some shots. We saw with the UW that a shot blocker can vastly improve the entire defense.

All the rest of this team that will be returning need to get some defensive instruction.

The "vaunted" zone of Silvey's didn't last long this year.
Kent does want to have his team play better defense. But, these are college players with limited practice time. With the staff teaching the offense, and yes, Kent is first an offensive coach, it was too much for the players to handle also working on and running correctly all the defensive concepts. So, they scaled the defense back and will work on it more next season.
Maybe, but I'm seeing very fundamental and easily fixable issues on defense. I have been impressed with how Kent has done this season, but I'm keeping my expectation on defensive improvement in check.
 
Originally posted by bogusto:
Unfortunately, at Washington State, with less talent than others, usually, defense is paramount. Rhetorically, for the sake of argument (and clarity) when is the last time a Bennett-coached team was excused for poor performance because of "tired legs". Talent will only get you so far. Hard work, discipline and tenacity gets you to the finish line.
You don't have to be a D-first team to have success here. Whatever philosophy you use here, you do have to build it up through player retention and dedication to that philosophy.

The NCAA rules committee is going to be taking more drastic measures to speed up the game, increase scoring and limit physical play. There have been countless pieces recently about how atrocious the game has been this year because of the lack of scoring efficiency. Given the likelihood we are going to be at a talent deficit versus most teams, focusing on defense may be detrimental with the shift in the college game that seems to be forthcoming.
 
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:

Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by 7ICoug:
You're spot on when it comes to Ernie Kent except when it comes to defense. Hopefully he can get that corrected with some additional players. I look forward to Valentine blocking some shots. We saw with the UW that a shot blocker can vastly improve the entire defense.

All the rest of this team that will be returning need to get some defensive instruction.

The "vaunted" zone of Silvey's didn't last long this year.
Kent does want to have his team play better defense. But, these are college players with limited practice time. With the staff teaching the offense, and yes, Kent is first an offensive coach, it was too much for the players to handle also working on and running correctly all the defensive concepts. So, they scaled the defense back and will work on it more next season.
Maybe, but I'm seeing very fundamental and easily fixable issues on defense. I have been impressed with how Kent has done this season, but I'm keeping my expectation on defensive improvement in check.
What were your expectations when Kent was hired? Did you think it was a good hire? What were your expectations on how this season would play out? After the offense was very bad to start the season, did you think it would be as good as it has shown at times this season? Did you think that Hawkinson would do as well as he has? Did you ever think DKD would show up at all? Did you think that Railey would ever contribute? etc...
 
I do think expectations that Kent will ever install a stifling half-court defense should be tempered, it's just not his style. As he continues to build up his players' fundamentals, they will improve defensively in the half court. As the individuals get better, the team will get better as a collective defense. But what I'm really interested in seeing is if he starts using more press to speed the tempo and if we can use that to generate some more turnovers, that will offset some of the deficiencies we have in defending in the half court.
 
Originally posted by CrimsonWazzu:
I do think expectations that Kent will ever install a stifling half-court defense should be tempered, it's just not his style. As he continues to build up his players' fundamentals, they will improve defensively in the half court. As the individuals get better, the team will get better as a collective defense. But what I'm really interested in seeing is if he starts using more press to speed the tempo and if we can use that to generate some more turnovers, that will offset some of the deficiencies we have in defending in the half court.
Yes, this. Kent will never be the Bennett's, nor will he even be like Sampson. However, that does not mean he will completely ignore defense and just hope to outscore teams like Paul Westhead used to do.

I have read several stories where Kent or his assistants have said they did not play good enough defense. I have read stories where they said they had to back off on the defensive end what they wanted to do because they were overloading the team.

It would be great if in the future they were a great offensive and defensive team. But, that is unlikely to ever happen. If the offense continues to improve and the defense becomes average, we will see this team go to some NCAA tournaments.

Plus, if Kent did not care anything about defense, he would not have wanted Houston transfer Valentine Izunu, who is a defensive specialist.
 
Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:

Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by 7ICoug:
You're spot on when it comes to Ernie Kent except when it comes to defense. Hopefully he can get that corrected with some additional players. I look forward to Valentine blocking some shots. We saw with the UW that a shot blocker can vastly improve the entire defense.

All the rest of this team that will be returning need to get some defensive instruction.

The "vaunted" zone of Silvey's didn't last long this year.
Kent does want to have his team play better defense. But, these are college players with limited practice time. With the staff teaching the offense, and yes, Kent is first an offensive coach, it was too much for the players to handle also working on and running correctly all the defensive concepts. So, they scaled the defense back and will work on it more next season.
Maybe, but I'm seeing very fundamental and easily fixable issues on defense. I have been impressed with how Kent has done this season, but I'm keeping my expectation on defensive improvement in check.
What were your expectations when Kent was hired? Did you think it was a good hire? What were your expectations on how this season would play out? After the offense was very bad to start the season, did you think it would be as good as it has shown at times this season? Did you think that Hawkinson would do as well as he has? Did you ever think DKD would show up at all? Did you think that Railey would ever contribute? etc...
We aren't in disagreement in general. My point is that he will never be a defensive coach. I have been impressed with how he has done with this team this season. Let's see if he can get the type of players he needs to win with offense and not defense.
 
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:

Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:

Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by 7ICoug:
You're spot on when it comes to Ernie Kent except when it comes to defense. Hopefully he can get that corrected with some additional players. I look forward to Valentine blocking some shots. We saw with the UW that a shot blocker can vastly improve the entire defense.

All the rest of this team that will be returning need to get some defensive instruction.

The "vaunted" zone of Silvey's didn't last long this year.
Kent does want to have his team play better defense. But, these are college players with limited practice time. With the staff teaching the offense, and yes, Kent is first an offensive coach, it was too much for the players to handle also working on and running correctly all the defensive concepts. So, they scaled the defense back and will work on it more next season.
Maybe, but I'm seeing very fundamental and easily fixable issues on defense. I have been impressed with how Kent has done this season, but I'm keeping my expectation on defensive improvement in check.
What were your expectations when Kent was hired? Did you think it was a good hire? What were your expectations on how this season would play out? After the offense was very bad to start the season, did you think it would be as good as it has shown at times this season? Did you think that Hawkinson would do as well as he has? Did you ever think DKD would show up at all? Did you think that Railey would ever contribute? etc...
We aren't in disagreement in general. My point is that he will never be a defensive coach. I have been impressed with how he has done with this team this season. Let's see if he can get the type of players he needs to win with offense and not defense.
Ok, that is fair. Kent will not be a defensive mastermind, nor does he want to be one any more than Bennett wants to be an offensive mastermind.

Offense is definitely Kent's calling card, much like offense is coach Leach's calling card. But, as we have seen, Leach fired his DC and has recruited more defensive players than offensive this year. He does want the defense to be better. I think we shall see Kent's teams play better defense in the future.
 
It'll be an interesting experiment to see who can do better at WSU, an offensive mastermind or a defensive one. That is, if you believe that Kent is a mastermind. He certainly has surprised me what he has done with this team that some thought could never produce like they have on offense.

My guess is that the defensive mastermind is a better fit at WSU. Of course, Tony is an extraordinary coach. I saw the other day that he is the only coach active coach to defeat all active Hall of Fame coaches (five, I think). I predict that he's going to go down as one of the best ever in the college ranks...and there was no way we were going to keep him here either.
 
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:
It'll be an interesting experiment to see who can do better at WSU, an offensive mastermind or a defensive one. That is, if you believe that Kent is a mastermind. He certainly has surprised me what he has done with this team that some thought could never produce like they have on offense.

My guess is that the defensive mastermind is a better fit at WSU. Of course, Tony is an extraordinary coach. I saw the other day that he is the only coach active coach to defeat all active Hall of Fame coaches (five, I think). I predict that he's going to go down as one of the best ever in the college ranks...and there was no way we were going to keep him here either.
I am not sure that Tony stays at Virginia long term, nor am I certain that he stays in college for his entire career. I could easily see an NBA team making him an offer one day that he cannot refuse. Unlike many college coaches that have tried their hands in the NBA, Tony played three years in the league, so he understands the NBA.
 
First, let me say that Ernie Kent has generally done a good job this season and I give him high marks for instilling confidence in players who were mentally beat down by the previous coach. Still, I didn't think it was unrealistic for this team to win 6+ conference games this year and 12+ overall. WSU only lost one player last year, DJ Shelton, but Hawkinson has easily surpassed DJs production this season. We also returned an excellent senior shooting guard in Lacy, who has been near the top of the conference scoring leaders the last couple of years. Despite the impression that the Cougars are a young team, we start three seniors...more than any other team in the conference. In short, I give Ernie props but need to see more to know if he will ultimately field a program that can consistently contend for something better than the lower third in the conference. The next two years will tell us a lot.

The Cougars are certainly more watchable this year and much more competitive. Really good sign.

Glad Cougar
 
Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:
It'll be an interesting experiment to see who can do better at WSU, an offensive mastermind or a defensive one. That is, if you believe that Kent is a mastermind. He certainly has surprised me what he has done with this team that some thought could never produce like they have on offense.

My guess is that the defensive mastermind is a better fit at WSU. Of course, Tony is an extraordinary coach. I saw the other day that he is the only coach active coach to defeat all active Hall of Fame coaches (five, I think). I predict that he's going to go down as one of the best ever in the college ranks...and there was no way we were going to keep him here either.
I am not sure that Tony stays at Virginia long term, nor am I certain that he stays in college for his entire career. I could easily see an NBA team making him an offer one day that he cannot refuse. Unlike many college coaches that have tried their hands in the NBA, Tony played three years in the league, so he understands the NBA.
You may be right. I think he's more of a small town guy though, for purposes of raising a family in a good environment. I may be wrong, but this alone would be a big impediment for him to coach in the NBA.

His dad stayed in one job a long time each time, and only moved to jobs in relatively small cities/towns. I expect Tony to do the same.
 
Plus, if anyone's "scheme" doesn't translate to the pros it would be the Bennett's pack line defense. Hard to imagine over-paid prima donnas knuckling down to that kind of workload over an 82-game span. Would require a Lombardi-like personality and an array of assistants armed with cattle prods. Don't see that flying, ever. I think Tony is a college lifer and heir apparent to Mr. K as the quintessential coach in the game.
 
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:

Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by How_did_this_happen?:
It'll be an interesting experiment to see who can do better at WSU, an offensive mastermind or a defensive one. That is, if you believe that Kent is a mastermind. He certainly has surprised me what he has done with this team that some thought could never produce like they have on offense.

My guess is that the defensive mastermind is a better fit at WSU. Of course, Tony is an extraordinary coach. I saw the other day that he is the only coach active coach to defeat all active Hall of Fame coaches (five, I think). I predict that he's going to go down as one of the best ever in the college ranks...and there was no way we were going to keep him here either.
I am not sure that Tony stays at Virginia long term, nor am I certain that he stays in college for his entire career. I could easily see an NBA team making him an offer one day that he cannot refuse. Unlike many college coaches that have tried their hands in the NBA, Tony played three years in the league, so he understands the NBA.
You may be right. I think he's more of a small town guy though, for purposes of raising a family in a good environment. I may be wrong, but this alone would be a big impediment for him to coach in the NBA.

His dad stayed in one job a long time each time, and only moved to jobs in relatively small cities/towns. I expect Tony to do the same.
You could be right about Tony. But, he also played in Sydney and Charlotte, plus Madison is not exactly small. Tony is more laid back than his dad and he is highly competitive. The NBA is the best league in the world and many coaches (and players) want to test themselves against the best.

I could see him in Charlotte easily.
 
Originally posted by Glad Cougar:
First, let me say that Ernie Kent has generally done a good job this season and I give him high marks for instilling confidence in players who were mentally beat down by the previous coach. Still, I didn't think it was unrealistic for this team to win 6+ conference games this year and 12+ overall. WSU only lost one player last year, DJ Shelton, but Hawkinson has easily surpassed DJs production this season. We also returned an excellent senior shooting guard in Lacy, who has been near the top of the conference scoring leaders the last couple of years. Despite the impression that the Cougars are a young team, we start three seniors...more than any other team in the conference. In short, I give Ernie props but need to see more to know if he will ultimately field a program that can consistently contend for something better than the lower third in the conference. The next two years will tell us a lot.

The Cougars are certainly more watchable this year and much more competitive. Really good sign.

Glad Cougar
WSU also lost leading assist man Royce Woolridge.
 
Originally posted by bogusto:
Plus, if anyone's "scheme" doesn't translate to the pros it would be the Bennett's pack line defense. Hard to imagine over-paid prima donnas knuckling down to that kind of workload over an 82-game span. Would require a Lombardi-like personality and an array of assistants armed with cattle prods. Don't see that flying, ever. I think Tony is a college lifer and heir apparent to Mr. K as the quintessential coach in the game.
Good points. Agree.

Tony does not strike me as really ego-driven. I could be wrong, but he's got some very strong values and the environment in which to raise his family is likely the highest value on his list. Maybe Charlotte in the NBA. It's possible, but I'm not seeing it.

My question is will he get lured to Wisconsin when Ryan retires? I see that as possible. It's his home state and chance to close the loop on his life, so to speak. He can certainly win a national title at either school.

This post was edited on 3/5 6:40 PM by How_did_this_happen?
 
Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by Glad Cougar:
First, let me say that Ernie Kent has generally done a good job this season and I give him high marks for instilling confidence in players who were mentally beat down by the previous coach. Still, I didn't think it was unrealistic for this team to win 6+ conference games this year and 12+ overall. WSU only lost one player last year, DJ Shelton, but Hawkinson has easily surpassed DJs production this season. We also returned an excellent senior shooting guard in Lacy, who has been near the top of the conference scoring leaders the last couple of years. Despite the impression that the Cougars are a young team, we start three seniors...more than any other team in the conference. In short, I give Ernie props but need to see more to know if he will ultimately field a program that can consistently contend for something better than the lower third in the conference. The next two years will tell us a lot.

The Cougars are certainly more watchable this year and much more competitive. Really good sign.

Glad Cougar
WSU also lost leading assist man Royce Woolridge.
That was addition by subtraction. Royce really struggled last year. Check out his stats from last year.

Glad Cougar
 
Originally posted by Glad Cougar:
Originally posted by Coug1990:
Originally posted by Glad Cougar:
First, let me say that Ernie Kent has generally done a good job this season and I give him high marks for instilling confidence in players who were mentally beat down by the previous coach. Still, I didn't think it was unrealistic for this team to win 6+ conference games this year and 12+ overall. WSU only lost one player last year, DJ Shelton, but Hawkinson has easily surpassed DJs production this season. We also returned an excellent senior shooting guard in Lacy, who has been near the top of the conference scoring leaders the last couple of years. Despite the impression that the Cougars are a young team, we start three seniors...more than any other team in the conference. In short, I give Ernie props but need to see more to know if he will ultimately field a program that can consistently contend for something better than the lower third in the conference. The next two years will tell us a lot.

The Cougars are certainly more watchable this year and much more competitive. Really good sign.

Glad Cougar
WSU also lost leading assist man Royce Woolridge.
That was addition by subtraction. Royce really struggled last year. Check out his stats from last year.

Glad Cougar
Perhaps. However, you could say that 90% of the team struggled last season. Look at Hawkinson, DKD, Railey, etc. Woolridge lead the team in assists. With Kent, who knows how much he could have improved this season. It is not as if WSU has had good point guard play this year.
 
I have to believe that Wisconsin will approach Tony when Bo retires. It will be interesting to see if he takes a look - not sure that he would. Bo has a long time assistant who might be in line but I think that program is in a place where they will be looking for a name coach.

Shaka Smart might be a coach they go after also. I think he's gone about as far as he can go at VCU and might well be interested in returning to Madison (where he grew up).
 
He didn't lead Oregon to two elite eights without any care for defense.

However, I have been shocked at just how terrible we have looked defensively for a good part of this season. Some of the breakdowns have been so fundamental too (like not sealing off the lane always). I sat in on some Bennett practices to see what they were teaching and recall all the time they spent on never allowing a guy to drive down the lane. Once before we played Arizona, they and drilled over an over again about sealing off the lane. Guess what? The Cats were never allowed to drive the ball down the lane when we played them the next day. The help defense was always there to swarm the guard if he even tried to venture down the lane. Kind of fun to watch practice principles turn into reality.

Anyway, enough lecturing on this. Kent will get them playing better defense (we can't do much worse). He's done a good job this season. Looking forward to what he does in the future.
 
I have not seen these countless pieces you refer to. I still contend that a tough physical defense that plays good fundamentals is a very good team to watch.
 
First, thanks to SD for starting the thread. One of the better hoops threads of the season, IMO.

I've given the whole Bone/Kent style of play, coaching, recruiting, etc. thing a lot of thought, as I'm sure many of you have, also.

Here is my $0.02. Much of this echoes some of the other posters.

First, Bone was clearly a better evaluator of talent than we recognized. Look at how many shooters Ernie has discovered on his roster! And Bone was on Hawkinson really early. Sure, he knew the family, but the family were no strangers to Romar, either, and they tried to get UW's attention. You could say some of the same about Lacy. Bone could identify talent and then use his nice guy approach to recruit it, and those really good kids that he got were due to early identification and long term recruiting effort. I don't think we can argue about that a whole bunch.

Second, Ernie has pretty much done more with the kids that it seems likely that Bone could have done. I don't know what else to say on that point.

Third, Ernie is not a "no defense" coach. Westhead was mentioned in the thread, and that pretty much defines the term. One CEK example I'll note is that you almost never see Ernie's guards follow their shot. Most often they are on their way back the other direction before the rebound is secured. That is not a "no defense" coach's approach. We can argue about how effectively his team works a half court D, but there is no doubt that Ernie wants to defend the transition, and is willing to give up some potential offensive rebounds to do so.

Fourth, Ernie was recently quoted (I think it was a Brand X article) as being frustrated that he has been trying to teach his team his version of the match up zone all season, and they still don't fully get it. That, gentlemen, is more on the coaching than the kids. Make all the excuses you want about Ernie's version of a match up being more complex than many zones…if you can't teach kids at this level how to execute your D in a full season, it isn't all on the kids. You can teach rocket science in less time than that. So although Ernie and staff are not the type to blow off D, it is also clear that they are not D gurus…or at least, they are not D teaching gurus.

Finally, I think our weakest link this year has been point guard play. Not too surprising, with a So and Fr filling that role. When we have gone non compis mentis for extended periods it has usually revolved around poor PG play and the resulting turnovers, and that has cost us more games than anything else. More than poor defense, more than cold shooting, and more than giving up offensive second chances. We've gotten better over the course of the season, and it looks from the cheap seats as though that trend will continue. Certainly, a year of experience will help our PG play next year.

This post was edited on 3/7 9:32 AM by cr8zyncalif
 
I just don't agree with your premise that Kent and his staff are bad at teaching defense because the team has not been able to pick it up yet. Coach Leach is a very good offensive football coach. Yet, his first year WSU was ranked 100th in the NCAA in total offense. His second year, it was ranked 51st. Last year, 19th. Just because a team does not get it the first year, does not mean it is the teaching.
 
Fair enough, 1990, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

My team was playing match up zone in junior high. If a kid had made the repetitive mental mistakes that I see our guys making, he would have been running lines in practice and picking splinters on the bench. IMHO there is no excuse for a kid at this level to be so defensively inept or lacking in court awareness. But then, I grew up in an era when kids were taught to play defense early in the process, and clearly many of these kids were not. CEK and staff probably get a little bit of a free pass for having to teach remedial subjects to kids who should not need them. But still and all, repetitively making the same mistakes at some point is stupidity, not ignorance. So either the kids are lacking or the staff is not good at teaching. End of rant.
 
Originally posted by Coug1990:
I just don't agree with your premise that Kent and his staff are bad at teaching defense because the team has not been able to pick it up yet. Coach Leach is a very good offensive football coach. Yet, his first year WSU was ranked 100th in the NCAA in total offense. His second year, it was ranked 51st. Last year, 19th. Just because a team does not get it the first year, does not mean it is the teaching.
I don't believe that his Oregon teams were all that strong on the defensive end. I could be wrong, so I'd have to go back and look at ppp allowed.
 
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