Rolo...where are we now, were are we going....

[CougEd]

The thread is almost pointless simply because I think he pissed off the wrong people. But let's for a moment say Chun is looking for any reason to keep Rolo.

I am never a fan of a quick firing. If we fired Price after 91, or again after 99 or 2000, we would have made a mistake.

In the early Wulff years I looked for signs of talent, is he and his staff able to get young talent on board. Any first class is going to suck, or at least the expectation that is not going to be the best effort. Leach had two very productive classes that laid a four year foundation for the program.

So if Chun is looking for a silver lining, who is the talent that is young that we have seen in a game or someone saw in practice that gives you hope that he may be able to evaluate talent. If we go to the worse hire and talk about Wulff, Long, McKay, Leandre McDaniel, Louis Bland were among the players the first two classes that said there might be talent and something even if it is a small thread to hang your hat on.

So with Rolo, there is a ton of talent leaving, Lucas, Borhi, McIntosh, Harris, Watson etc....who are the young players that gives us hope if he is retained that he can right the ship like Price did in 92?

And for this year, Move Liam back inside, he cannot protect the blindside.

 

[chugspig]

Lincoln victor, the 8 man recruiting class he’s bringing in, walk ons from 1a WA schools etc. should all be forefront of our 2022 resurgence.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

You have to start with JdL.

We have a lot of O line bodies. How many are good (or can be good) run blockers? That is the question.

We have a lot of returning receivers. Possession receivers won't be a problem; I look at Huard and figure he is a multi-year starter. But can the taller, faster guys learn to catch the balls onto which they can get 2 hands? That is the question here, but there are enough of them that I expect someone will emerge. Worst case they don't have blazing speed, but if they can run a route well they can get open.

Nakia will be fine next year at RB.

We have a lot of returning DB's and DE's. We have some DT's. LB is where it is not clear to me who will be ready to play. There are people there, but I don't know much about them.

 

[roses04]

There is more talent on this team this year than there will be for at least the next two years. A lot of quality players finishing up their careers, plus the transfer portal could make it worse. If there is a plus, it's Rodgers last year.

 

[Fab5Coug]

There is more talent on this team this year than there will be for at least the next two years. A lot of quality players finishing up their careers, plus the transfer portal could make it worse. If there is a plus, it's Rodgers last year.

This team without Borghi, McIntosh, Lucas, Harris, Woods and Watson should scare the crap out of us. Could be a 1 win team next year and that’s just cause I assume we’ve got Idaho or someone on the schedule.

That said, is Watson a Rolo recruit or was he already here? That would show they can at least land some talent.

And the RB transfer from Wiscy could be good.

The Edson kid looks pretty good so far. And the coaches seem to really want this Stribling guy to work out. He certainly looks the part.

 

[dgibbons]

This team without Borghi, McIntosh, Lucas, Harris, Woods and Watson should scare the crap out of us. Could be a 1 win team next year and that’s just cause I assume we’ve got Idaho or someone on the schedule.

That said, is Watson a Rolo recruit or was he already here? That would show they can at least land some talent.

And the RB transfer from Wiscy could be good.

The Edson kid looks pretty good so far. And the coaches seem to really want this Stribling guy to work out. He certainly looks the part.

Rolovich got Watson.

In general, the OL and DL recruits are worrisome.

 

[longtimecoug]

The thread is almost pointless simply because I think he pissed off the wrong people. But let's for a moment say Chun is looking for any reason to keep Rolo.

I am never a fan of a quick firing. If we fired Price after 91, or again after 99 or 2000, we would have made a mistake.

In the early Wulff years I looked for signs of talent, is he and his staff able to get young talent on board. Any first class is going to suck, or at least the expectation that is not going to be the best effort. Leach had two very productive classes that laid a four year foundation for the program.

So if Chun is looking for a silver lining, who is the talent that is young that we have seen in a game or someone saw in practice that gives you hope that he may be able to evaluate talent. If we go to the worse hire and talk about Wulff, Long, McKay, Leandre McDaniel, Louis Bland were among the players the first two classes that said there might be talent and something even if it is a small thread to hang your hat on.

So with Rolo, there is a ton of talent leaving, Lucas, Borhi, McIntosh, Harris, Watson etc....who are the young players that gives us hope if he is retained that he can right the ship like Price did in 92?

And for this year, Move Liam back inside, he cannot protect the blindside.

we are going to the cellar, where we will be for Rolo's entire tenure and beyond, he can't coach and he can't recruit

 

[Cougsocal]

Rolo is a far better coach than Wulff. Wulff destroyed a team with average Pac-12 talent on both sides of the ball and made them the worst football team in school and conference history in one off-season. Rolo inherited a team with major major problems on defense, and with little young talent coming to the rescue. If we had a solid defense we would be winning games right now. What Rolo doesn't have is the Wulff propaganda machine behind him, engaging in revisionist history.

That said, ... Let's not kid ourselves!

 

[Glad Cougar]

Rolo is a far better coach than Wulff. Wulff destroyed a team with average Pac-12 talent on both sides of the ball and made them the worst football team in school and conference history in one off-season. Rolo inherited a team with major major problems on defense, and with little young talent coming to the rescue. If we had a solid defense we would be winning games right now. What Rolo doesn't have is the Wulff propaganda machine behind him, engaging in revisionist history.

That said, ... Let's not kid ourselves!

Worst football team in conference history? I have a few OSU friends who would like to have a conversation with you about the Joe Avezzano years. (Editor's note: The Wulff years were insufferably bad, I'm not defending him. But historically, there has never been a stretch as bad as Joe at OSU.)

Glad Cougar

 

[CougPatrol]

Like it or not, he's going to have to hit the transfer portal hard. Unfortunately, the negative press that he's brought upon himself isn't going to help him attract kids who are unsure if he'll be there in a year or two.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Like it or not, he's going to have to hit the transfer portal hard. Unfortunately, the negative press that he's brought upon himself isn't going to help him attract kids who are unsure if he'll be there in a year or two.

He will struggle to land ANY kids if he doesn't win games. If you have one or two years left are you going somewhere to get beat 45-14??

 

[Cougsocal]

Worst football team in conference history? I have a few OSU friends who would like to have a conversation with you about the Joe Avezzano years. (Editor's note: The Wulff years were insufferably bad, I'm not defending him. But historically, there has never been a stretch as bad as Joe at OSU.)

Glad Cougar

No team in conference history ever lost six straight games to start conference play by a combine 350-36. There won't be any debate, but for our improbable win over the highly favored, but winless, UW. Joe lost a ton of games, no doubt, but his worst defeat ever was a 40 point loss to Stanford. The "Amazing" 2008 Cougs lost by 49 or more 5 times, and were shut out thrice, more shutouts than in the previous 40 years. The 69-0 defeat to USC is, and will remain, the most one side defeat in conference history and Pete was actually trying to keep the score down, would you believe. Our 570 points allowed is a conference record by more than 100 pts. We finished second to last in all D1 on offence too, 118, out of 119, thanks to the 48 we scored against Portland State. I can go on and on and on.

 

[Wazzubrooz]

For anyone paying attention Wolff was the worst coach ever at WSU. Period.

 

[CougEd]

Rolo is a far better coach than Wulff. Wulff destroyed a team with average Pac-12 talent on both sides of the ball and made them the worst football team in school and conference history in one off-season. Rolo inherited a team with major major problems on defense, and with little young talent coming to the rescue. If we had a solid defense we would be winning games right now. What Rolo doesn't have is the Wulff propaganda machine behind him, engaging in revisionist history.

That said, ... Let's not kid ourselves!

Socal....let em state so there is no debate...Wulff is the anti Christ. Worse coach ever. I believe whoever took over for Leach had a 4 year rebuild in front of them. QB with no experience, see 2008. No dline except crowder....see 2008. Good pieces on the oline...see 2008. Would you say Rolo inherited a better situation that was inherited in 08, the same or worse?

Like 08 (and I don't see the talent as you did in 08...the best players on that team were the center and a WR. And we didn't have a QB that had experience and could get them the ball) the best players are soon to leave an now relying on Rolo and his recruiting prowess. It will be four years before we have a winning season in Pullman.

But I do have to ask you , which team had more talent, 08/09 or 20 and 21...

 

[FnuLnu]

Socal....let em state so there is no debate...Wulff is the anti Christ. Worse coach ever. I believe whoever took over for Leach had a 4 year rebuild in front of them. QB with no experience, see 2008. No dline except crowder....see 2008. Good pieces on the oline...see 2008. Would you say Rolo inherited a better situation that was inherited in 08, the same or worse?

Like 08 (and I don't see the talent as you did in 08...the best players on that team were the center and a WR. And we didn't have a QB that had experience and could get them the ball) the best players are soon to leave an now relying on Rolo and his recruiting prowess. It will be four years before we have a winning season in Pullman.

But I do have to ask you , which team had more talent, 08/09 or 20 and 21...

So you're saying if Chun's replacement brought in Wulff or Baldwin/Wulff, this time it would work?

 

[CougEd]

So you're saying if Chun's replacement brought in Wulff or Baldwin/Wulff, this time it would work?

Turn off Sirius 9-41 Wulff Radio....I guess the stipulation Wulff was the anti christ of coaches didn't clue you in. The Wulff ship sailed 10 years ago. It would be like me bringing back an ex girlfriend.....

 

[Cougsocal]

Socal....let em state so there is no debate...Wulff is the anti Christ. Worse coach ever. I believe whoever took over for Leach had a 4 year rebuild in front of them. QB with no experience, see 2008. No dline except crowder....see 2008. Good pieces on the oline...see 2008. Would you say Rolo inherited a better situation that was inherited in 08, the same or worse?

Like 08 (and I don't see the talent as you did in 08...the best players on that team were the center and a WR. And we didn't have a QB that had experience and could get them the ball) the best players are soon to leave an now relying on Rolo and his recruiting prowess. It will be four years before we have a winning season in Pullman.

But I do have to ask you , which team had more talent, 08/09 or 20 and 21...

On defense Rolo inherited a worse situation. The 2007 defense wasn't good, but 8 of 11 were slated to return, including Mattingly. Trent and Evans. Rolo inherited the worst defense in the conference, and Mattingly, Trent and Evans were better than their opposites today. Based on the RBs and OLs, I'd say Rolo was in better position on O. But people who tout the OL today forget these guys can't run block to save their lives. But the run and shoot is a run block light offense.

Wulff must be judge on the nature and extent of the collapse he fostered. Rolo needs to be judged on how he has recruited to fill Leach's wholes. Frankly, it hasn't been good. I liken him to Price, who also struggled in 1990 and 1991. Had Rolo started to bring in the likes of Patterson, Eaton, Sasa, Bledsoe or Hunter, Rushing, Mobley yada yada, we wouldn't be having this conversation. With Price, it was more holy shite these kids are going to be good some day -- good young talent breeds optimism. Rolo has combined Price's struggles with underwhelming recruiting, a bad bad combination. Where is the Rolo end game?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

No team in conference history ever lost six straight games to start conference play by a combine 350-36. There won't be any debate, but for our improbable win over the highly favored, but winless, UW. Joe lost a ton of games, no doubt, but his worst defeat ever was a 40 point loss to Stanford. The "Amazing" 2008 Cougs lost by 49 or more 5 times, and were shut out thrice, more shutouts than in the previous 40 years. The 69-0 defeat to USC is, and will remain, the most one side defeat in conference history and Pete was actually trying to keep the score down, would you believe. Our 570 points allowed is a conference record by more than 100 pts. We finished second to last in all D1 on offence too, 118, out of 119, thanks to the 48 we scored against Portland State. I can go on and on and on.

I have to agree that Wulff took a team that was mediocre in 2007 and made us into the laughingstock of college football. Rolovich is not worth of carrying Wulff's jockstrap in terms of absolute suckitude in that respect. Even so, I think that too many people judge Wulff solely on 2008 and 2009 while ignoring the fact that he was rebuilding the team up after 2008 to at least mediocre when he was canned in 2011. I will always believe that Wulff was capable of getting our team into a bowl game. Of course, we don't hire coaches to go 5-7, 6-6 or 7-5. We want to be in the hunt for championships. As such, there is no doubt that Wulff deserved to get fired in 2011 and nothing else really needs to be said.

The thing about Rolovich is that you can tell that he does a good job of getting players ready for games. You don't consistently come out and stake double digit leads against quality competition if you suck the way that Wulff did. The thing that is worrisome is that Rolovich has displayed almost no media savvy in the past twelve months coupled with the fact that his recruiting is terrible right now.

Chun can look at the early leads and hope that the recruiting woes are overstated and that in time, our team talent and conditioning will improve and that coaching will find its way when it comes to adjustments. I have little faith at this point though.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Rolovich got Watson.

In general, the OL and DL recruits are worrisome.

I don't pretend to be an expert at evaluating high school linemen, but I subscribe to the "start with numbers to end with numbers" approach Leach took.

I look at that 2020 class and see 5 OL recruits, the smallest of which is 260. Looks like just 1 DT, but 4 DEs at 240+, so maybe the plan is to move 1 or 2 inside. So, that's good.

Only 2 OL taken in '21. 2 interior DL. Not so good.

2 OL so far this class and 2 decent sized DL recruits. Ok'ish, for now. They'd need to land 2 or 3 more OL recruits to make me feel good about it.

Now, are any of them any good? I'm not going to pretend to know that. Did any of us think O'Connell, Madison or Dillard would be as good as they ended up being?

 

[Fab5Coug]

Socal....let em state so there is no debate...Wulff is the anti Christ. Worse coach ever. I believe whoever took over for Leach had a 4 year rebuild in front of them. QB with no experience, see 2008. No dline except crowder....see 2008. Good pieces on the oline...see 2008. Would you say Rolo inherited a better situation that was inherited in 08, the same or worse?

Like 08 (and I don't see the talent as you did in 08...the best players on that team were the center and a WR. And we didn't have a QB that had experience and could get them the ball) the best players are soon to leave an now relying on Rolo and his recruiting prowess. It will be four years before we have a winning season in Pullman.

But I do have to ask you , which team had more talent, 08/09 or 20 and 21...

I'd say this team is unquestionably better than '08/'09.

That team didn't have a Borghi or even a McIntosh. Certainly didn't have an Abe Lucas. Didn't have a Jaylen Watson. The QB is much better than anyone on those teams.

 

[etowncoug]

I'd say this team is unquestionably better than '08/'09.

That team didn't have a Borghi or even a McIntosh. Certainly didn't have an Abe Lucas. Didn't have a Jaylen Watson. The QB is much better than anyone on those teams.

True that. We have 4 QB's better than Kevin Lopina.

 

[Fab5Coug]

True that. We have 4 QB's better than Kevin Lopina.

Poor Kevin Lopina. Dude wasn't very good, but he also never stood a chance on that team. He was playing through practically a broken back too, IIRC.

 

[FnuLnu]

Turn off Sirius 9-41 Wulff Radio....I guess the stipulation Wulff was the anti christ of coaches didn't clue you in. The Wulff ship sailed 10 years ago. It would be like me bringing back an ex girlfriend.....

If the Taliban can make a comeback, why not Wulff or Baldwin/Wulff?

The celebrity Cougs and the media liked him

 

[CougEd]

If the Taliban can make a comeback, why not Wulff or Baldwin/Wulff?

The celebrity Cougs and the media liked him

I like my ex’s but not asking them to come back . They are ex’s for a reason . But continue to live in wulff world

 

[Cougsocal]

I'd say this team is unquestionably better than '08/'09.

That team didn't have a Borghi or even a McIntosh. Certainly didn't have an Abe Lucas. Didn't have a Jaylen Watson. The QB is much better than anyone on those teams.

That's only half the equation. No one says the 2008 returning offense was better, as a group. That said, even though Wulff managed to misuse future NFL 9 year vet RB Chris Ivory and future NFL WR Brandon Gibson, both were far superior talent wise to anything Rolo inherited at the RB and WR positions. Yeah Chris Ivory > Max Borghi (if and when Borghi runs for a 1000 yard in the NFL like Ivory, we can talk).

 

[chugspig]

Poor Kevin Lopina. Dude wasn't very good, but he also never stood a chance on that team. He was playing through practically a broken back too, IIRC.

If I remember right Lopina and Lobster had spine injuries in the game against PSU?

 

[BiggsCoug]

If I remember right Lopina and Lobster had spine injuries in the game against PSU?

I think it was broken neck, broken knee, broken back and lacerated liver.

 

[FnuLnu]

If I remember right Lopina and Lobster had spine injuries in the game against PSU?

Lopina & Gary Rogers had broke neck vertebrae.

Lobster got a bad knee later vs Oregon State

 

[FnuLnu]

The thread is almost pointless simply because I think he pissed off the wrong people.

Who are the "wrong people?"

 

[Coug1990]

I'd say this team is unquestionably better than '08/'09.

That team didn't have a Borghi or even a McIntosh. Certainly didn't have an Abe Lucas. Didn't have a Jaylen Watson. The QB is much better than anyone on those teams.

Pat Chun said it was the most talented team since he came to Pullman.

 

[Coug1990]

Rolo is a far better coach than Wulff. Wulff destroyed a team with average Pac-12 talent on both sides of the ball and made them the worst football team in school and conference history in one off-season. Rolo inherited a team with major major problems on defense, and with little young talent coming to the rescue. If we had a solid defense we would be winning games right now. What Rolo doesn't have is the Wulff propaganda machine behind him, engaging in revisionist history.

That said, ... Let's not kid ourselves!

I don't know if Rolo is far better than Wulff or not. He would have to coach WSU for a few more years to know. What I do believe is that he is not good, and I don't want him staying around in order to find out where on the scale he is.

 

[Fab5Coug]

That's only half the equation. No one says the 2008 returning offense was better, as a group. That said, even though Wulff managed to misuse future NFL 9 year vet RB Chris Ivory and future NFL WR Brandon Gibson, both were far superior talent wise to anything Rolo inherited at the RB and WR positions. Yeah Chris Ivory > Max Borghi (if and when Borghi runs for a 1000 yard in the NFL like Ivory, we can talk).

Totally forgot Ivory was even on that team. He hardly carried the ball. Another feather in the cap for the ole Wulff tenure.

 

[Cougsocal]

I don't know if Rolo is far better than Wulff or not. He would have to coach WSU for a few more years to know. What I do believe is that he is not good, and I don't want him staying around in order to find out where on the scale he is.

Rolo inherited a defense in worse shape than the one Wulff inherited, and we aren't getting run at a rate of 350-36 is proof enough for me. But the Wulff Standard of bad is such a low bar to to start with. Hell seven games in Rolo is nearly 25% of the way to Wulff 9 win total. Stated in math terms, a 1 is far greater than .01, on a 10 point scale of good coaching.

 

[Cougsocal]

I think it was broken neck, broken knee, broken back and lacerated liver.

A coach so bad he was a danger to his players, yet more proof of how bad he was.

 

[Cougsocal]

I have to agree that Wulff took a team that was mediocre in 2007 and made us into the laughingstock of college football. Rolovich is not worth of carrying Wulff's jockstrap in terms of absolute suckitude in that respect. Even so, I think that too many people judge Wulff solely on 2008 and 2009 while ignoring the fact that he was rebuilding the team up after 2008 to at least mediocre when he was canned in 2011. I will always believe that Wulff was capable of getting our team into a bowl game. Of course, we don't hire coaches to go 5-7, 6-6 or 7-5. We want to be in the hunt for championships. As such, there is no doubt that Wulff deserved to get fired in 2011 and nothing else really needs to be said.

The thing about Rolovich is that you can tell that he does a good job of getting players ready for games. You don't consistently come out and stake double digit leads against quality competition if you suck the way that Wulff did. The thing that is worrisome is that Rolovich has displayed almost no media savvy in the past twelve months coupled with the fact that his recruiting is terrible right now.

Chun can look at the early leads and hope that the recruiting woes are overstated and that in time, our team talent and conditioning will improve and that coaching will find its way when it comes to adjustments. I have little faith at this point though.

2011 was clearly the Wulff highlight, they weren't getting run to the tune of 350-36 anymore, and Leach did take the corp of those kids to a bowl game. But there is another way of looking at the "rebuild."

It almost didn't happen. Imagine, if Tuel didn't get injured. We likely lose to both Colorado and ASU, because the Lobster and Halliday, respectively, played much better than an mental spent Tuel was capable (Remember, he went on to struggle running the QB friendly air raid). Halliday passed for nearly 500 yards, the Lobster threw for 380. I just don't see the then ultra cautious/gun shy Tuel putting up those numbers.

Also, was the New Mexico bowl proof of the rebuild, or evidence of Leach's coaching acumen? On paper, they were the product of the worst recruiting classes in school history.

Food for thought.

 

[dgibbons]

If I remember right Lopina and Lobster had spine injuries in the game against PSU?

Rogers and Lopina.

 

[CougEd]

Totally forgot Ivory was even on that team. He hardly carried the ball. Another feather in the cap for the ole Wulff tenure.

He missed over half the season with an injury he was injured during Dobas tenure… and Doba and staff wanted to make him a linebacker since they recruited 7 kids at RB position. Unlike players before then, none of those rb saw themselves as anything but running backs creating a log jam at one position and a shortage at linebacker and safety