Saturday night in Pullman
- Thread starter kougkurt
- Start date
Hearing yes, it was players involved. Holding out on more details, not gonna paint pictures before that happens.
We've had a number of instances both ways where players were at fault and the non-players have also been at fault for starting fights.
Given the injuries to the one non-player involved, this looks bad though.
We've had a number of instances both ways where players were at fault and the non-players have also been at fault for starting fights.
Given the injuries to the one non-player involved, this looks bad though.
Not to minimize the situation or the serious jaw injury, but party fighting isn't typically something that I get overly concerned about. It sounds the players were freshmen, and as of right now, we don't know the details of the incident.
Maybe the players were being thugs and incited the whole thing? Maybe the victims mouthed off and got their asses kicked? Sucks that it went that far, especially the head stomping, but we'll find out more info in the next few days.
Maybe the players were being thugs and incited the whole thing? Maybe the victims mouthed off and got their asses kicked? Sucks that it went that far, especially the head stomping, but we'll find out more info in the next few days.
Dumbass move--I don't care who started it, why would a player jeopardize their scholarship and/or spot on team and possibly more, rather than walk away. Coaches gotta start getting that through their heads--what they have is far too valuable to squander over something so stupid as fighting.
Sounds pretty thuggish from Spokesman story: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/jul/24/witnesses-say-wsu-football-players-assaulted-2-stu/
Thought I saw spongebob in that video slapping people left and right ...
Anytime a fight ends with a guy drinking from a straw for three months, it's something that we should be concerned about. Regardless of the cause of the fight, our football program is in the news for a negative reason and I guarantee that the "cause" wasn't worth it. Leach has always been fairly easy on straight up fighting but it will be hard to let things go if there are actual charges that come from this.
BTW, just to resort to hyperbole, saying some dude deserved to get his jaw broken in three places for mouthing off is like saying that a chick deserves to get raped for wearing a short dress. At some point, the assailant is just supposed to know better. Our football players need to remember that they are highly visible representatives of the university and crap that they used to get away with when they were at home with their friends doesn't play as well on a college campus.
You are right. He was the host of the party, his conduct as the host--as reported in the story--seems reasonable, and if his story is anywhere near accurate, getting punched and kicked on the ground, while being outnumbered 3:1 is more a group assault than anything else. Closing down one's own party because a group of attendees are throwing firecrackers at folks is a reasonable tactic, their response was not. If one or two of the attackers can be clearly identified, I would guess that they're done. If not, then I would think a multi-game suspension + whatever the legal system does. This ain't alabama so they're not getting off.
Couldn't have been--he was busy wooing the ladies.
Any reports of a pizza delivery guy being involved?
#honorthepast
#honorthepast
I prefaced my original post by saying (since at the time I wrote it, details weren't available to me) that we need to wait for the entire story to clear up before we have an understanding about what transpired. If the players did indeed show up to a party where they were asked to leave, and then started a riot which included the brutal beating and face stomping, then the decision is simple. They're booted off the team.
Should this have happened? Of course not. Hell, any fighter with even a shred of decency knows when to ease up once the outcome has been determined. In this case, regardless of who started it, the "winner" of the conflict took it from a fight to a massive beating. Any kangaroo court, family or football, would punish him (them) severely for that breach of class and humanity. Good God, my Dad would have stomped the Hell out of me if I beat someone down like that.
With that said, I still need to hear the entire story before passing judgment; particularly one where you compare a woman getting raped for wearing a short skirt with a fist fight at a college party. Both my Father and Grandfather (who was a boxer) cautioned me at a very young age to be careful who you pick fights with, as you might start something that the other guy finishes. There are details that, while they won't justify the beating, could cast the incident in a different light. Did the victim say, "excuse me guys, I'm going to have to ask you to leave?" or did he say "Hey you f-ing N*&gers, get the F out of here" followed by a cheap shot punch to the face?
Again, would that justify the beating? No, but it would certainly change the script.
OK, my above post was my rational, lets wait for the details, persona.
On a more sarcastic note, as already noted by some of you, this incident serves as further confirmation that our program is recruiting tougher athletes. Millard, Mizell, Jason David, Ira Davis, Chris Ivory; some of our best players ever have been involved in dust ups like this.
On a more sarcastic note, as already noted by some of you, this incident serves as further confirmation that our program is recruiting tougher athletes. Millard, Mizell, Jason David, Ira Davis, Chris Ivory; some of our best players ever have been involved in dust ups like this.
Agree with every letter of this. While it shouldn't have happened, details can shed a completely different light on what happened, to "Our football team is a bunch of thugs" to "While they might have taken it too far, I woulda beat the crap out of that guy, too!" kind of light. If someone called my best friend and teammate a plethora of names, they'd have gotten a beating, as well. Doesn't excuse it and it still well may have a couple of our players booted off the team but at the same time, I'd understand the players perspective, as well. We'll never know this amount of detail but we should all hold our tongues and judgement without knowing the whole story.
Here's what we don't know: did the football players act out of self-defense?
That said, the act of stomping on the guy on the ground, is going to be viewed as acting in excess of self defense, if it can actually be proved he stomped or kicked him. Won't be too hard with video and eye witness evidence. I fully expect the guy who stomped on the guy's head to be charged and booted from the team with some kind of aggravated assault charge and is facing a felony.
That said, the act of stomping on the guy on the ground, is going to be viewed as acting in excess of self defense, if it can actually be proved he stomped or kicked him. Won't be too hard with video and eye witness evidence. I fully expect the guy who stomped on the guy's head to be charged and booted from the team with some kind of aggravated assault charge and is facing a felony.
OK, my above post was my rational, lets wait for the details, persona.
On a more sarcastic note, as already noted by some of you, this incident serves as further confirmation that our program is recruiting tougher athletes. Millard, Mizell, Jason David, Ira Davis, Chris Ivory; some of our best players ever have been involved in dust ups like this.
As the Ivory incident happened at the house I was renting and involved my roommate at the time, I can say factually that he is simply a frickin coward who tried to run and hide after assaulting my roommate. #suckerbottled....
Does this stupid stuff happen at other Pac-12 schools? I assume so, but maybe other schools limit their questionable/illegal behaviors to interactions with farm animals.
Mind-boggling how players can't keep themselves under control with so much at stake.
Supposed;y it was mainly 3 freshmen football players. If true,it will not hurt this season ,but will end their coug careers before they start.Absolute stupidity. with kids being away from home for probably the first time in their lives.
Another thing to consider is that, from a legal perspective, it's going to take more than that chaotic video to prove culpability. You've got a 2:00AM booze party on a college campus, and the stock defense is going to be the credible testimony of any witness's. I'm sure they ran toxicology on the victims, and odds are, they were pretty lit up. I'm sure the same is true for most of the attendees. I'd be curious to know if the responding police administered breathalyzer tests to the witnesses to help back their testimony.
Not justifying this at all, but I know how these cases play out legally. You're going to have a group of drunk witnesses testifying against the assailants and a group of accused players banding together and denying their involvement. The accused players can, and likely will, claim that they were attacked and feared for their lives, which is why they fought so aggressively.
Had this occurred at a public bar or restaurant, there would be more credible evidence and better video available. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Prosecuting this case, particularly as a felony, may be challenging.
Not justifying this at all, but I know how these cases play out legally. You're going to have a group of drunk witnesses testifying against the assailants and a group of accused players banding together and denying their involvement. The accused players can, and likely will, claim that they were attacked and feared for their lives, which is why they fought so aggressively.
Had this occurred at a public bar or restaurant, there would be more credible evidence and better video available. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Prosecuting this case, particularly as a felony, may be challenging.
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This could be it.
http://www.pullman-wa.gov/departmen...epeat.detail/2016/07/22/3120/-/view-incidents
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16-P07092 Citizen Dispute 01:27:44 07/23/16 Ryan McNannay FOR
450 NE OAK ST, PULLMAN, WA 99163
Officers responded for a citizen dispute. Investigation ongoing.
http://www.pullman-wa.gov/departmen...epeat.detail/2016/07/22/3120/-/view-incidents
-------------------------------------------------------------------
16-P07092 Citizen Dispute 01:27:44 07/23/16 Ryan McNannay FOR
450 NE OAK ST, PULLMAN, WA 99163
Officers responded for a citizen dispute. Investigation ongoing.
Unless the party host is an experienced UFC fighter it will be a difficult case to defend an attack by 3 people against 1 when the one is on his back. I agree with the thrust of your point, insofar as witness credibility goes, but if the numbers are such and the positions are such as reported, there will be legal ramifications.
"name calling" won't wash as a defense once one is out of junior high....even a "plethora" of them....lol. 3 football players....how drunk would a non-athlete have to be to insult or attack guys that are obviously stronger and bigger than most guys? Sure, it happens, but not usually. Maybe TKEs would do it....lolx2
would you sucker punch one of 3 football players after calling them the N word?? The burden of proof on that one is high....no pun intended
Of course I wouldn't, but the alcohol induced hero complex is something I've witnessed and professional athletes have discussed frequently. Unfortunately, many young guys get drunk and like to pop off to show off. Do I think that was the case here? No. Again, I'm trying to play devils advocate by thinking it through the way a defense attorney would.
"He was screaming racial obscenities at me, and a group of his friends threatened to kill me. They started pushing me and I snapped out of fear for my safety."
As you said, the burden of proof is a stretch, but from the video I saw, it was pure chaos. As crazy as it is to speculate that an average sized guy (or guys) would pick a fight with bigger, stronger football players, a savvy attorney will also argue that it's crazy to think a few well known football players would sneak into this party and start shooting fireworks off and attempting to start a riot.
Who started it? What was said? Did someone flash a gun? While the police are interviewing witnesses, attorney's and the players involved are working on polishing their stories. From what I've seen and read, I expect that felony charges will be filed, but given the size and scope of the booze party, the charges will be quickly plead down.
Not sure I disagree that the players will walk. But "it" is different for athletes. Let's say a kid did pop off. What does he lose if he is in a fight? Can that person be booted? I guess. What are the ramifications for the player, the team and the school if Keith Millard beats up a delivery boy in this day and age?
They (athletes) are held to a slightly different standard. In part because they are a face of the university. They have their education paid for and represent the university on a different level. They simply can't be putting themselves in that position.
I just watched the video again (or one of the videos), and the first part shows a short, white guy with short brown hair and with a green backpack taking quite a few swings at people. Just before that, a taller black male floors another person and another male joins in as they continue attacking the fallen person. Toward the end of the video and on the other end of the yard, another fight occurs, with a black male absolutely destroying another student with a punch. Several people are just standing around watching, including a female with her arms folded, and also what appears to be some athletes. I'm not sure, but I think I recognize one, but fortunately for him, he's not involved in the fights.
Sounds like two guys who beat someone while down,may have legal problems. The "other black male" who destroyed another guy may claim "mutual combat" as a defense. It will take a little while to sort it all out.
The defense of the 21st century: "He was shouting racial obscenities at me." If that would have been the case, any of the videos would have looked a lot differently....Let's see the medical reports....
I think you are looking at my comments from a legal perspective. I'm looking at it from a "friend" perspective. Someone calls a friend of mine a racial slur, they'll get a whole can of whoop-ass. Not any stomping just a good 'ol fashion "better watch your mouth" kinda thing.
And I don't know the crowd you hung out with (or currently hang out with) but I know plenty of guys that thought they could "take" a football player. They were normally drunk when such BS was spewed… Liquid courage is VERY normal. Even if the guy has 100lb on the other. Seen it more times than I can count. You're apparently coming from a sheltered perspective. "lolx2".
Glory, there's a rumor you were in your share of fights when you were at WSU. True?
Well, first of all I have to distinguish between my college years and now. As one who today is only middle age if I live to be well over 100 (lol), and a college professor, I guarantee my (or my colleagues' and friends' now) reaction would NOT be irrational. We simply have too much at stake: careers, families, TIAA-CREF accounts, etc. We're smart enough maybe to realize it's not worth it.
Now, when you use the present tense to say "When someone calls a friend of mine....etc." they'll get a "can of whoop ass" you either are reverting to your high school or college years, or engaging in message board braggadocio. So you would respond to slurs with violence? Here's what that will get you--guaranteed.
1. As I know from watching my students for years, EVERYTHING is going to go on video....so anyone WILL see who threw the first punch....and, acc to you, that would be you. And that puts the burden of proof squarely on YOU to prove to the court that the other guy used the narrowly construed term "fighting words" as provocation. Good luck with that. You will likely lose.
2. Do you have a house? Assets? Career? They will all be at risk when you "open your can of whoop ass" on person X. Are you married? Do you think your wife will be happy you put her retirement at risk to defend a friend's "honor?" Good luck with that too.
Now.....back to the WSU kids. I knew several football players when I attended WSU AND Usc. I always found them fun, normal guys and I never had the slightest problem with them. I would guess that a judge or jury would allow them to defend their buddies with one, maybe two punches, if the guy had continually insulted them and "left them no other reasonable recourse"////BUT, there is no excuse for hitting a guy when he is down, kicking him when he is on the ground, stomping him, etc. They're done. Through. And they will be found guilty.
my 02 worth
As Dwight Shrute would say, "false." I only had problems with mallards, coyotes, pheasants, chukars, trout, bass, and geese. The 70s were a time of peace at NE 725
And more power to ya, on your .02. But you don't have to worry about my finances, SC. I could give a rip less if some spineless idiot tried to sue be for putting them in their place.
And regarding my wife, I can guarantee you, she'd be disappointed in me (as would I) if I didn't stick up for my friends. Thanks tho!
