Socal...starting anew...what does that look like in the athletic department?

[CougEd]

I am not here to defend Chun...or even Smith....I think sometimes you have to look at a situation and say I need to step up, and not out. I know this will bug people, but in 1981 I sat in a cafeteria wondering why we were in the Pac 10 and not the WAC. One third of the football season was over by the time our students were on campus. UCLA, UW and USC would not come to our campus. Our cross state rivals had ten times the football recruiting budget we had, and also at the same time had the richest radio contract in the country.

We just had four head football coaches in four years. Walden wanted something more for WSU. Yeah he irritates people, but when the ship hit the iceberg he didn't pull a Jonathan Smith, a Kyle Smith or Pat Chun. He put his own interests second to that of a great university. Was he completely successful? No, but the constant turnover was put behind us, USC, UCLA, and Washington had to come to Pullman. It changed the trajectory of our football program.

I am not going to comment on the job Chun did in terms of accomplishments, but WSU and the people who support the program have to decide what we want in the athletic department. Chun seemed cold and aloof, didn't communicate or thank coaches enough. Covid hurt WSU more than probably any school in the country. We were the titanic and hit the iceberg, and from 2020 to this date we have been bailing water just to keep our heads above water. There probably has been more on the AD plate than we can imagine.

Chun was an outsider. He wasn't one of us. WSU thinks they have to be a Coug to help run the Cougs. Worked out well for Doba. Chun was highly respected. He had some good training at Ohio State. I believe he was hired to help give us that Ohio State "gloss" and do some of the things that made OSU successful.

The problem is the locals, the people who would say "that's not how we do it around here" . That is such small thinking. In the "real world" that isn't how it works. When a President of a company is blown out, guess what, so goes his entire management team. I saw that happen personally probably five times. Many good people were asked to leave. Why? Cause the new person wanted complete buy in.

That doesn't happen in Pullman. We want to be big time athletics but want that homey feel in the department. Stuff I heard people complain about literally blows my mind.

So to Socal, how do they remake themselves? How does the department move forward with the constraints of needing teh small town , always a coug vibe?

 

[CougPatrol]

The athletic department will hopefully resemble that of an upper crust Mountain West Conference program. SDSU's Athletic Director makes around $350K. Their football coach makes a little shy of $2M ($1.8M). Their hoops coach makes $2.3M.

There's a lot of panic among WSU fans right now, but when the dust settles, I think the new league is going to be fine for us. The MWC just landed 6 teams in the NCAA basketball tournament. That's an incredible accomplishment. SDSU played in the championship game last year. The top Mountain West Conference football teams play at the level of WSUs best teams historically. Since 2004, they've had 7 teams finish the year ranked in the top-15. 4 of them finished ranked in the top-10.

WSU will be one of the best academic programs in the new conference, and if we can tap into our sizeable fan base, we should be well positioned financially in comparison to the new league. Football and men's basketball can continue to compete at the level we have over the past 40 years. I genuinely believe that.

 

[CougEd]

The athletic department will hopefully resemble that of an upper crust Mountain West Conference program. SDSU's Athletic Director makes around $350K. Their football coach makes a little shy of $2M ($1.8M). Their hoops coach makes $2.3M.

There's a lot of panic among WSU fans right now, but when the dust settles, I think the new league is going to be fine for us. The MWC just landed 6 teams in the NCAA basketball tournament. That's an incredible accomplishment. SDSU played in the championship game last year. The top Mountain West Conference football teams play at the level of WSUs best teams historically. Since 2004, they've had 7 teams finish the year ranked in the top-15. 4 of them finished ranked in the top-10.

WSU will be one of the best academic programs in the new conference, and if we can tap into our sizeable fan base, we should be well positioned financially in comparison to the new league. Football and men's basketball can continue to compete at the level we have over the past 40 years. I genuinely believe that.

I prepared for something like this since about 1980. I thought we would get booted then. I thought I was prepared mentally, as I knew it could happen. But reality is setting in and it is shocking and I am now getting pissed. If it is about TV sets, we were in the top six in terms of TV ratings. We had a great women's bball program, good men's team, won more conference championships in football since 97 than ASU, Colorado, Arizona, UCLA, Cal, Stanford....

We had a great volleyball program. And it is now gutted.

Maybe we get what we deserve. The kids didn't go to see a pretty good basketball team until the last three games. They don't attend a good women's basketball game. They go to get their TikTok at the football games then leave at halftime. I hope they don't miss it and "hope" it magically comes back.

 

[Cougsocal]

It all comes down to changing the "in and out" mind set. We will never have a strong fan base, if the only reason to come to Pullman is football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. It is an ordeal for most. For it to work, Pullman needs to be a destination. 2 million people visit Leavenworth annually. 2.6 millions visit Jackson Hole. In 1962 Leavenworth was a down and out logging town. They came up with a plan, a Slovang knock off.

Oxford isn't just Ole Miss, its the music and the nightlife. If you want a condo anywhere near "the Square" you are talking 1 to 2 million, and "the Square" isn't near campus. Oxford is busy on weekends, every weekend. If I'm putting a chunk of change on a condo, I'm using it.

WSU and Pullman have to work together on this, invest together, change the real estate market, for one, from almost entirely landlord, to predominately condo. Had you bought a condo in 2016 in Pullman you'd have doubled your money, and that is with a struggling, down on its luck, city. Drive rents up by limiting supply, making condos a sensible option for parents. Imagine that, in a town with more than the Cougs on the menu! Heavily incentivize gentrification of the downtown area and Grand. I'm not saying create Slovang III, but maybe promote a digital nomad/startup culture, making campus infrastructure available -- the best suited plan would need research into market trends and a joint commitment.

You want money spent on athletics, its about getting people with money to have a stake in the community, and by planning to greatly expanding the local populus.

 

[CougEd]

It all comes down to changing the "in and out" mind set. We will never have a strong fan base, if the only reason to come to Pullman is football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. It is an ordeal for most. For it to work, Pullman needs to be a destination. 2 million people visit Leavenworth annually. 2.6 millions visit Jackson Hole. In 1962 Leavenworth was a down and out logging town. They came up with a plan, a Slovang knock off.

Oxford isn't just Ole Miss, its the music and the nightlife. If you want a condo anywhere near "the Square" you are talking 1 to 2 million, and "the Square" isn't near campus. Oxford is busy on weekends, every weekend. If I'm putting a chunk of change on a condo, I'm using it.

WSU and Pullman have to work together on this, invest together, change the real estate market, for one, from almost entirely landlord, to predominately condo. Had you bought a condo in 2016 in Pullman you'd have doubled your money, and that is with a struggling, down on its luck, city. Drive rents up by limiting supply, making condos a sensible option for parents. Imagine that, in a town with more than the Cougs on the menu! Heavily incentivize gentrification of the downtown area and Grand. I'm not saying create Slovang III, but maybe promote a digital nomad/startup culture, making campus infrastructure available -- the best suited plan would need research into market trends and a joint commitment.

You want money spent on athletics, its about getting people with money to have a stake in the community, and by planning to greatly expanding the local populus.

Or move WSU to Chelan....

 

[Loyal Coug1]

It all comes down to changing the "in and out" mind set. We will never have a strong fan base, if the only reason to come to Pullman is football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. It is an ordeal for most. For it to work, Pullman needs to be a destination. 2 million people visit Leavenworth annually. 2.6 millions visit Jackson Hole. In 1962 Leavenworth was a down and out logging town. They came up with a plan, a Slovang knock off.

Oxford isn't just Ole Miss, its the music and the nightlife. If you want a condo anywhere near "the Square" you are talking 1 to 2 million, and "the Square" isn't near campus. Oxford is busy on weekends, every weekend. If I'm putting a chunk of change on a condo, I'm using it.

WSU and Pullman have to work together on this, invest together, change the real estate market, for one, from almost entirely landlord, to predominately condo. Had you bought a condo in 2016 in Pullman you'd have doubled your money, and that is with a struggling, down on its luck, city. Drive rents up by limiting supply, making condos a sensible option for parents. Imagine that, in a town with more than the Cougs on the menu! Heavily incentivize gentrification of the downtown area and Grand. I'm not saying create Slovang III, but maybe promote a digital nomad/startup culture, making campus infrastructure available -- the best suited plan would need research into market trends and a joint commitment.

You want money spent on athletics, its about getting people with money to have a stake in the community, and by planning to greatly expanding the local populus.

Nice thoughts, but a couple of pokes in them. First, Leavenworth is 117 miles from Seattle. Second, the condo idea is fine, but you mean Mom and Dad buy it for Junior then sell when Junior graduates, correct? What's the difference to the community between that and Junior renting except that the community gets that rent money vs M&D making money which goes to Seattle? I think the rents benefit Pullman more.

Downtown Pullman is not worth fretting over. As I said in another thread, it serves the 10,000-ish local residents. Except for the bars and restaurants of course. You have WSU and an increasingly dominant Schweitzer Engineering as the main non-farm employment base. A big issue is all the WSU people (SEL too I suppose) that live in Idaho (40% when I worked there) and take their paychecks across the border. There is no magical population expansion to be had.

I love Pullman. But it is what it is. It is not a destination resort town. We filled Beasley routinely under Raveling and the Bennetts. We filled then-38,000+ seat Martin in the 80's. We filled Bohler for VB. The fans are out there. Just have to win and win consistently. Yeah utilize WSU's facilities for conferences, sports tournaments, etc.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Nice thoughts, but a couple of pokes in them. First, Leavenworth is 117 miles from Seattle. Second, the condo idea is fine, but you mean Mom and Dad buy it for Junior then sell when Junior graduates, correct? What's the difference to the community between that and Junior renting except that the community gets that rent money vs M&D making money which goes to Seattle? I think the rents benefit Pullman more.

Downtown Pullman is not worth fretting over. As I said in another thread, it serves the 10,000-ish local residents. Except for the bars and restaurants of course. You have WSU and an increasingly dominant Schweitzer Engineering as the main non-farm employment base. A big issue is all the WSU people (SEL too I suppose) that live in Idaho (40% when I worked there) and take their paychecks across the border. There is no magical population expansion to be had.

I love Pullman. But it is what it is. It is not a destination resort town. We filled Beasley routinely under Raveling and the Bennetts. We filled then-38,000+ seat Martin in the 80's. We filled Bohler for VB. The fans are out there. Just have to win and win consistently. Yeah utilize WSU's facilities for conferences, sports tournaments, etc.

I think what Cougsocal is getting at is Oxford is 25k and Starkville is 24k in population and are still vibing all year. Yes, they have cities near by that feed into it (Memphis to Oxford is 75ish miles), but Pullman has Tri-Cities and Spokane that are close enough and would be able to provide population bases to draw from.

Football in the South is religion, and it's not in the PNW. WSU and the city of Pullman getting together would be a smart move on finding a way to help both grow. It won't ever reach the rapid fandom of the South, but it could be a destination. You just have to make it a destination.

 

[CougPatrol]

We filled the stadiums back in the “good old days” because those events were the best entertainment options for everyone in and around town. Technology has changed that. All of the games are televised now. Casual fans have streaming and Netflix.Kids prefer to be stay home and play video / online games with their friends.

This isn’t just a WSU problem. Spectator sports are facing live attendance concerns in the coming decade. “Hey, are you going the game on Saturday” isn’t something young people say anymore.

 

[CougPatrol]

I think what Cougsocal is getting at is Oxford is 25k and Starkville is 24k in population and are still vibing all year. Yes, they have cities near by that feed into it (Memphis to Oxford is 75ish miles), but Pullman has Tri-Cities and Spokane that are close enough and would be able to provide population bases to draw from.

Football in the South is religion, and it's not in the PNW. WSU and the city of Pullman getting together would be a smart move on finding a way to help both grow. It won't ever reach the rapid fandom of the South, but it could be a destination. You just have to make it a destination.

Pullman is still strongly vibing with students, but sports aren’t a significant part of that. I have a son starting school in Pullman in August, and I’ve had several nieces and nephews graduate from there in the past 5 years. The party and recreation scene is alive and well.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Open up a bookstore downtown along with a Ferdinand's. I've been to the WSU visitor center near downtown and a couple of bar/restaurants but, they need something else to draw people/students. A new parking area wouldn't hurt either. Just my 2 cents as a past visitor.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Nice thoughts, but a couple of pokes in them. First, Leavenworth is 117 miles from Seattle. Second, the condo idea is fine, but you mean Mom and Dad buy it for Junior then sell when Junior graduates, correct? What's the difference to the community between that and Junior renting except that the community gets that rent money vs M&D making money which goes to Seattle? I think the rents benefit Pullman more.

Downtown Pullman is not worth fretting over. As I said in another thread, it serves the 10,000-ish local residents. Except for the bars and restaurants of course. You have WSU and an increasingly dominant Schweitzer Engineering as the main non-farm employment base. A big issue is all the WSU people (SEL too I suppose) that live in Idaho (40% when I worked there) and take their paychecks across the border. There is no magical population expansion to be had.

I love Pullman. But it is what it is. It is not a destination resort town. We filled Beasley routinely under Raveling and the Bennetts. We filled then-38,000+ seat Martin in the 80's. We filled Bohler for VB. The fans are out there. Just have to win and win consistently. Yeah utilize WSU's facilities for conferences, sports tournaments, etc.

FWIW.....I'm betting that most of those apartments are not owned by anyone living in Pullman. That money is leaving Pullman in either case.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

FWIW.....I'm betting that most of those apartments are not owned by anyone living in Pullman. That money is leaving Pullman in either case.

I'd wager more than you think, but point well taken. The Brelsford family, they of the visitor center moniker, have a bunch

 

[Coug90]

We filled the stadiums back in the “good old days” because those events were the best entertainment options for everyone in and around town. Technology has changed that. All of the games are televised now. Casual fans have streaming and Netflix.Kids prefer to be stay home and play video / online games with their friends.

This isn’t just a WSU problem. Spectator sports are facing live attendance concerns in the coming decade. “Hey, are you going the game on Saturday” isn’t something young people say anymore.

Yup this. 38K showed up when a midseason game against Cal wasn’t anywhere to be found on TV. Now you can turn to ESPN the Ocho to watch a game against Portland State on a 70 inch Hi Def TV that you were able to buy with money from a couple of McDonald’s shifts.

Its not that the fans suck, its that for many there’s a more reasonable option than $5 a gallon to drive 10 hours round trip, stay in an overpriced hotel (if you can find one at all) with skyrocketing costs for eating out and tickets to boot.

Then the students…endless distraction of tik tok, instagram, Snapchat, etc. 8:00 on a Saturday after scrolling all day…”oh there was a game today?”

The world ain’t the same and it never will be again.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Yup this. 38K showed up when a midseason game against Cal wasn’t anywhere to be found on TV. Now you can turn to ESPN the Ocho to watch a game against Portland State on a 70 inch Hi Def TV that you were able to buy with money from a couple of McDonald’s shifts.

Its not that the fans suck, its that for many there’s a more reasonable option than $5 a gallon to drive 10 hours round trip, stay in an overpriced hotel (if you can find one at all) with skyrocketing costs for eating out and tickets to boot.

Then the students…endless distraction of tik tok, instagram, Snapchat, etc. 8:00 on a Saturday after scrolling all day…”oh there was a game today?”

The world ain’t the same and it never will be again.

My daughter goes to the Colorado School of Mines. Their team played in the Div. II championship game last year and hardly anyone at the school cared. She went to one game last year. Football is a lot lower priority out west than it used to be.....and with out west, I mean the Mountain and Pacific time zones.

 

[dgibbons]

I am not here to defend Chun...or even Smith....I think sometimes you have to look at a situation and say I need to step up, and not out. I know this will bug people, but in 1981 I sat in a cafeteria wondering why we were in the Pac 10 and not the WAC. One third of the football season was over by the time our students were on campus. UCLA, UW and USC would not come to our campus. Our cross state rivals had ten times the football recruiting budget we had, and also at the same time had the richest radio contract in the country.

We just had four head football coaches in four years. Walden wanted something more for WSU. Yeah he irritates people, but when the ship hit the iceberg he didn't pull a Jonathan Smith, a Kyle Smith or Pat Chun. He put his own interests second to that of a great university. Was he completely successful? No, but the constant turnover was put behind us, USC, UCLA, and Washington had to come to Pullman. It changed the trajectory of our football program.

I am not going to comment on the job Chun did in terms of accomplishments, but WSU and the people who support the program have to decide what we want in the athletic department. Chun seemed cold and aloof, didn't communicate or thank coaches enough. Covid hurt WSU more than probably any school in the country. We were the titanic and hit the iceberg, and from 2020 to this date we have been bailing water just to keep our heads above water. There probably has been more on the AD plate than we can imagine.

Chun was an outsider. He wasn't one of us. WSU thinks they have to be a Coug to help run the Cougs. Worked out well for Doba. Chun was highly respected. He had some good training at Ohio State. I believe he was hired to help give us that Ohio State "gloss" and do some of the things that made OSU successful.

The problem is the locals, the people who would say "that's not how we do it around here" . That is such small thinking. In the "real world" that isn't how it works. When a President of a company is blown out, guess what, so goes his entire management team. I saw that happen personally probably five times. Many good people were asked to leave. Why? Cause the new person wanted complete buy in.

That doesn't happen in Pullman. We want to be big time athletics but want that homey feel in the department. Stuff I heard people complain about literally blows my mind.

So to Socal, how do they remake themselves? How does the department move forward with the constraints of needing teh small town , always a coug vibe?

Your timeline is rather curious, and I don't really see the analogy. Walden took over in 1978, so three years before to were sitting the cafeteria. Do you know whether Walden actually had options? Going from QB coach to head coach seems like a pretty big promotion. And he did bail in 1986, likely to avoid being fired.

As to what needs to happen- basically we need the best AD were ever going to have to navigate the budget cuts, new conference, trying to get some kind of two year TV deal, and all of the other issues the Athletic Department is facing. As I posted before, WSU needs to invest a piece of the money coming from the demise of the Pac-12 into something that will generate some ROI. My best idea is into fundraising.

 

[dgibbons]

Nice thoughts, but a couple of pokes in them. First, Leavenworth is 117 miles from Seattle. Second, the condo idea is fine, but you mean Mom and Dad buy it for Junior then sell when Junior graduates, correct? What's the difference to the community between that and Junior renting except that the community gets that rent money vs M&D making money which goes to Seattle? I think the rents benefit Pullman more.

Downtown Pullman is not worth fretting over. As I said in another thread, it serves the 10,000-ish local residents. Except for the bars and restaurants of course. You have WSU and an increasingly dominant Schweitzer Engineering as the main non-farm employment base. A big issue is all the WSU people (SEL too I suppose) that live in Idaho (40% when I worked there) and take their paychecks across the border. There is no magical population expansion to be had.

I love Pullman. But it is what it is. It is not a destination resort town. We filled Beasley routinely under Raveling and the Bennetts. We filled then-38,000+ seat Martin in the 80's. We filled Bohler for VB. The fans are out there. Just have to win and win consistently. Yeah utilize WSU's facilities for conferences, sports tournaments, etc.

I would guess the condo would be maintained better. But that's just a guess.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I would guess the condo would be maintained better. But that's just a guess.

Yeah probably. Although Junior rooting around in it for 3-4 years might be problematic.

As an aside, curious to see what apartment vacancy rates are looking like these days with enrollment declining, grad populations apparently declining, and WSU doggedly sticking with the freshman campus live-in rule is doing to all those apartments that keep popping up.....

 

[Coug90]

My daughter goes to the Colorado School of Mines. Their team played in the Div. II championship game last year and hardly anyone at the school cared. She went to one game last year. Football is a lot lower priority out west than it used to be.....and with out west, I mean the Mountain and Pacific time zones.

The flip side is that TV ratings are better than ever and that’s where the money is at anyways. I’m curious to see when they start using AI to “fill” stadiums and simulate crowd noise while you’re watching. Doesn’t seem like we are far from that in some places.

 

[dgibbons]

Yeah probably. Although Junior rooting around in it for 3-4 years might be problematic.

As an aside, curious to see what apartment vacancy rates are looking like these days with enrollment declining, grad populations apparently declining, and WSU doggedly sticking with the freshman campus live-in rule is doing to all those apartments that keep popping up.....

Anything I owned would be better maintained that the shitholes I and my son lived in. Of course, I don't know that investing in that Pullman real estate market is more appealing than the S&P.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Anything I owned would be better maintained that the shitholes I and my son lived in. Of course, I don't know that investing in that Pullman real estate market is more appealing than the S&P.

Kinda surprised - I'm older than you, and back when I was in school on and near campus housing was shit. Took the enrollment issues and subsequent recovery for those dumps to start clearing out in favor of the new complexes. After your time too maybe.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Ed, I actually liked most of your opening post. Thanks for the thread. I suspect you meant 1978 or 79, rather than 1981. We synched our school calendar to match with Idaho for the 79/80 school year (moving the school year start to about 3 weeks earlier). That was my senior year. Though the stated reason was to permit easier sharing of graduate classes between the schools, the shift also resolved the issue of playing a bunch of games before the students were on campus.

Patrol may be right about "upper crust MWC". That remains to be seen...if nothing further changes, then Patrol is probably right. However, there are a number of dominos yet in play. What will happen with the ACC? How quickly will streaming overtake linear TV? Are we in a position to do something with streaming that the established P4 cannot do, due to existing contract? If so, how does having an actual PAC network figure into that? And how will UW, Stanford & Cal react to being economically starved in terms of sports budget vs. the rest of their league over the next 5 years (yes, I left out Whoregon, because uncle Phil has the means to soften their financial blow if he chooses to do so)? None of these things are directly in conflict with "upper crust MWC", but they might serve to augment what is existing to cause it to look considerably better than it does at this moment.

I actually agree with several of Loyal's points, but I have to note that it is not just winning that is required to get folks to campus, it is also about messaging. And other than a few times in the past 40 years, our messaging has been poor. Is there no one at the Murrow or Carson colleges who understand messaging? Or branding? Or is it simply that our leadership has so often failed to listen? The "Hello WSU" effort of 25-ish years ago was effective at more than just fundraising. It was also a personal telephone reaching out from Pullman at a time when the internet was in its infancy, and it involved students who were happy to share a 3-5 minute snippet on what was going on. I don't disagree that athletic success leads to attendance at sporting events, but if we are talking about getting people back to campus for any reason at all, messaging is crucial. Winning programs come and go. Messaging should be constant.

Finally, as for condos, the housing market has been robust in Pullman/Moscow (both sides of the border) for years and continues to be so. The demand has outstripped the local developer/contractor base and that (more than any other single reason) is why demand exceeds supply. That is a quality problem to have in terms of the discussion on this thread.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Ed, I actually liked most of your opening post. Thanks for the thread. I suspect you meant 1978 or 79, rather than 1981. We synched our school calendar to match with Idaho for the 79/80 school year (moving the school year start to about 3 weeks earlier). That was my senior year. Though the stated reason was to permit easier sharing of graduate classes between the schools, the shift also resolved the issue of playing a bunch of games before the students were on campus.

Patrol may be right about "upper crust MWC". That remains to be seen...if nothing further changes, then Patrol is probably right. However, there are a number of dominos yet in play. What will happen with the ACC? How quickly will streaming overtake linear TV? Are we in a position to do something with streaming that the established P4 cannot do, due to existing contract? If so, how does having an actual PAC network figure into that? And how will UW, Stanford & Cal react to being economically starved in terms of sports budget vs. the rest of their league over the next 5 years (yes, I left out Whoregon, because uncle Phil has the means to soften their financial blow if he chooses to do so)? None of these things are directly in conflict with "upper crust MWC", but they might serve to augment what is existing to cause it to look considerably better than it does at this moment.

I actually agree with several of Loyal's points, but I have to note that it is not just winning that is required to get folks to campus, it is also about messaging. And other than a few times in the past 40 years, our messaging has been poor. Is there no one at the Murrow or Carson colleges who understand messaging? Or branding? Or is it simply that our leadership has so often failed to listen? The "Hello WSU" effort of 25-ish years ago was effective at more than just fundraising. It was also a personal telephone reaching out from Pullman at a time when the internet was in its infancy, and it involved students who were happy to share a 3-5 minute snippet on what was going on. I don't disagree that athletic success leads to attendance at sporting events, but if we are talking about getting people back to campus for any reason at all, messaging is crucial. Winning programs come and go. Messaging should be constant.

Finally, as for condos, the housing market has been robust in Pullman/Moscow (both sides of the border) for years and continues to be so. The demand has outstripped the local developer/contractor base and that (more than any other single reason) is why demand exceeds supply. That is a quality problem to have in terms of the discussion on this thread.

Are you sure about that 79/80 move to the early start? In fact I know that is not correct. I started at WSU Fall 1979 and was working harvest until right before school started. I think Sept 25. And I graduated in 1984 - at the end of January.

Also, fixed your comment: "I actually agree with several all of Loyal's points ever made, as does any Coug with half a brain."

Edit - yep, Fall 1984 was the move to the early start.

Timeline Data | WSU Timeline Site | Washington State University

timeline.wsu.edu

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Are you sure about that 79/80 move to the early start? In fact I know that is not correct. I started at WSU Fall 1979 and was working harvest until right before school started. I think Sept 25. And I graduated in 1984 - at the end of January.

Also, fixed your comment: "I actually agree with several all of Loyal's points ever made, as does any Coug with half a brain."

Edit - yep, Fall 1984 was the move to the early start.

Timeline Data | WSU Timeline Site | Washington State University

timeline.wsu.edu

Loyal, my wife would agree that my memory can be faulty. I guess I was thinking of my little brother's time there. In support of your pickled memory, Graduation ceremonies are first week of May this year. Back then they were last week of May (closed week was starting when St Helens blew on May 18). So mark this one on the wall...you were right this time!

 

[Cougini5591]

We filled the stadiums back in the “good old days” because those events were the best entertainment options for everyone in and around town. Technology has changed that. All of the games are televised now. Casual fans have streaming and Netflix.Kids prefer to be stay home and play video / online games with their friends.

This isn’t just a WSU problem. Spectator sports are facing live attendance concerns in the coming decade. “Hey, are you going the game on Saturday” isn’t something young people say anymore.

TV games has changed the "want and need" for many fans to cone.

The answer is to make a party and loud one. Bring in big names for concerts and comedy shows. Hell... do a major carnival ride fairgrounds in Pullman. A fall youth 3 on 3 tournament (indoor... it can be done).

WSU Football DOESN'T need to only be WSU Football.

 

[95coug]

WSU Football shouldn’t need to only be WSU Football.

Fixed it for you.

There have been significant conversations on this board for over 20 years centering on the need to do more with game day. Something to draw fans and families and make it worth their time. WSU and the community at large need to find ways to make it so that the game - while still a strong draw - is not the only draw. Make it a full day or full weekend, not just an afternoon.

There have been a lot of ideas floated. High school tournaments & jamborees, wine & beer festivals, concerts, etc. But of course, nothing has happened.

 

[CougPatrol]

We can’t sell out games vs. Idaho. That says it all.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Fixed it for you.

There have been significant conversations on this board for over 20 years centering on the need to do more with game day. Something to draw fans and families and make it worth their time. WSU and the community at large need to find ways to make it so that the game - while still a strong draw - is not the only draw. Make it a full day or full weekend, not just an afternoon.

There have been a lot of ideas floated. High school tournaments & jamborees, wine & beer festivals, concerts, etc. But of course, nothing has happened.

One of my struggles as a long distance fan is feeling good about spending $2,000 to watch a football game and just a football game. We typically try out new restaurants, try to find a place to hike that we haven't seen before and find other things so that I can get as much out of the trip as possible for the money. Still, there have been trips where it's been a questionable expenditure. WSU (and Pullman) needs to do everything they can to keep fans from feeling that way. Instead, Pullman hotels in particular seem to be running with the "F#ck these guys, I need to get mine while I can".

 

[UberCougars]

Because everyone these days has an extra $2,000 sitting around to blow on a football game don’t you know

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Fixed it for you.

There have been significant conversations on this board for over 20 years centering on the need to do more with game day. Something to draw fans and families and make it worth their time. WSU and the community at large need to find ways to make it so that the game - while still a strong draw - is not the only draw. Make it a full day or full weekend, not just an afternoon.

There have been a lot of ideas floated. High school tournaments & jamborees, wine & beer festivals, concerts, etc. But of course, nothing has happened.

Granted I haven't been to a game since Gameday, so no idea what is(n't) happening recently. But we did used to have concerts on some gamedays, although the TV-driven time changes made that problematic. Has the whole kid zone with inflatables, on the track gone away?

The hotels - yeah they suck. What is it now, pushing $300/night on game weekends fro rooms that are $80 2 days later? Cuz they can - can alienate the fans. Wonder if they even sell out anymore.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Because everyone these days has an extra $2,000 sitting around to blow on a football game don’t you know

I wouldn't say that I have it "sitting around". Money is a finite resource for almost everyone.

 

[CougEd]

Your timeline is rather curious, and I don't really see the analogy. Walden took over in 1978, so three years before to were sitting the cafeteria. Do you know whether Walden actually had options? Going from QB coach to head coach seems like a pretty big promotion. And he did bail in 1986, likely to avoid being fired.

As to what needs to happen- basically we need the best AD were ever going to have to navigate the budget cuts, new conference, trying to get some kind of two year TV deal, and all of the other issues the Athletic Department is facing. As I posted before, WSU needs to invest a piece of the money coming from the demise of the Pac-12 into something that will generate some ROI. My best idea is into fundraising.

Yes...the events before the cafeteria "sitting" happened in the near past. In the rearview mirror but one could see the effects of what Sweeney to Sherrill to Powers to Walden had on the program. Also, didn't change the fact teh UW had the richest program in the country at the time, ten times the recruiting budget we had. It doesn't change the fact UW, USC and until 1980 UCLA didn't step foot on our campus.

And since you weren't around, I can tell you there were calls to quit having WSU, Oregon State and even Oregon to suck off the tit of UCLA, USC and UW. Those three brought zip to the table financially, and until WSU played for the Rose Bowl didn't bring anything to the table for years. So yeah, there was calls for us to go to the WAC.

And After 1981 Walden did have an offer, I believe it was Minnesota but he elected to stay, fight it out with Sam J and have him get the Apple Cup back where it belongs.

 

[Wazzubrooz]

One of my struggles as a long distance fan is feeling good about spending $2,000 to watch a football game and just a football game. We typically try out new restaurants, try to find a place to hike that we haven't seen before and find other things so that I can get as much out of the trip as possible for the money. Still, there have been trips where it's been a questionable expenditure. WSU (and Pullman) needs to do everything they can to keep fans from feeling that way. Instead, Pullman hotels in particular seem to be running with the "F#ck these guys, I need to get mine while I can".

Sorry to point out that everything now days is based on ‘F these guys, I need to get mine while I can’. From coaches to players to hotels to grocery stores to gas stations, on & on. It’s basically the central theme to living.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Brooz, there is certainly a lot of truth (and reality) to your observation. But it is not universal, nor is it mandatory. What we need is a team that people want to be a part of and compensation that makes it possible for them to evaluate us positively. At some point you don't need more money and instead prioritize your other needs. That will be up to the new AD. Our old AD was unable to create that environment.

 

[95coug]

Granted I haven't been to a game since Gameday, so no idea what is(n't) happening recently. But we did used to have concerts on some gamedays, although the TV-driven time changes made that problematic. Has the whole kid zone with inflatables, on the track gone away?

The hotels - yeah they suck. What is it now, pushing $300/night on game weekends fro rooms that are $80 2 days later? Cuz they can - can alienate the fans. Wonder if they even sell out anymore.

It’s been decades since there was anything on the track. They brought 3-4 inflatables to the practice field starting in about 2013, and maintained them until Covid. Didn’t have them in ‘22, brought them back in ‘23. That’s all they’ve done.

 

[dgibbons]

It’s been decades since there was anything on the track. They brought 3-4 inflatables to the practice field starting in about 2013, and maintained them until Covid. Didn’t have them in ‘22, brought them back in ‘23. That’s all they’ve done.

There is (maybe was, can't remember honestly) the DJ dude on the practice field too. Along with the pre-game radio broadcast.

Not opening up the corporate tent area to the masses seems like a wasted opportunity.

 

[Coug90]

There is (maybe was, can't remember honestly) the DJ dude on the practice field too. Along with the pre-game radio broadcast.

Not opening up the corporate tent area to the masses seems like a wasted opportunity.

none of this stuff is all of a sudden going to start happening now if it wasn’t before with additional staff reductions. I don’t disagree that it’s been a piss poor effort but it’s likely only going to move in the wrong direction.

The easiest change would be to just sell beer in the damned stadium. Don’t get that one.

 

[dgibbons]

none of this stuff is all of a sudden going to start happening now if it wasn’t before with additional staff reductions. I don’t disagree that it’s been a piss poor effort but it’s likely only going to move in the wrong direction.

The easiest change would be to just sell beer in the damned stadium. Don’t get that one.

I think it must be fire code or building code issue. Not a big enough space with access to a men’s room and ladies’ room or something like that.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I think it must be fire code or building code issue. Not a big enough space with access to a men’s room and ladies’ room or something like that.

It is possible that it has something code related as a background to where we stand now. But those are relatively easy to address, and the payback on doing what ever needs to be done vs. income to be derived should be quick. Also have to realize that if you sell beer you need more security, which is also a cost. There will definitely need to be more people escorted out of the stadium if beer is sold. And it seems like a good idea to cut off sales at some point early in the second half; prob no later than end of the third quarter. If we get a year or two experience and have no problems, we could consider extending that cut off time. But let's walk before we run. And the initial price for the beer should not be cheap. With the added security and liability, plus maybe some physical site alterations, we need to charge enough to recover all those costs promptly.

 

[dgibbons]

It is possible that it has something code related as a background to where we stand now. But those are relatively easy to address, and the payback on doing what ever needs to be done vs. income to be derived should be quick. Also have to realize that if you sell beer you need more security, which is also a cost. There will definitely need to be more people escorted out of the stadium if beer is sold. And it seems like a good idea to cut off sales at some point early in the second half; prob no later than end of the third quarter. If we get a year or two experience and have no problems, we could consider extending that cut off time. But let's walk before we run. And the initial price for the beer should not be cheap. With the added security and liability, plus maybe some physical site alterations, we need to charge enough to recover all those costs promptly.

Not as easy as you may think. Finding the right space (don't know what the size has to be/makes sense for revenue) for a beer garden with access to a mens and ladies room in the fairly confined area under the seating on the student side could be difficult. Frankly don't know where a beer garden would be placed on the alumni side.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Not as easy as you may think. Finding the right space (don't know what the size has to be/makes sense for revenue) for a beer garden with access to a mens and ladies room in the fairly confined area under the seating on the student side could be difficult. Frankly don't know where a beer garden would be placed on the alumni side.

Indeed, the devil is often in the details. Might need a portable beergarten that could encroach on "out of stadium" space to a degree. Should be OK so long as emergency vehicle access is not restricted. With all the outdoor restaurant renovations done due to Covid, experience on how to do this is pretty widespread. But you are right, if there is a specific place someone has in mind, something else may have to give in order to make it work.