State break down of D1 prospects

[Brent H.]

I came across this article today that is really interesting to me because of how some people are questioning why we couldn't sign any Washington kids and the Oregon senator complaining how Oregon didn't sign one state kid this year. Washington ranks 23rd in the country in kids signing with D1 schools with just about 128 kids in the last 4 years. California is 3rd with having almost having 1300 (1272) kids signing scholarships to D1 schools. California had more than twice as many kids signing with a D1 school this year alone (289) than Washington has produced in 4 years combined. Now, the thing is about Washington they are getting credited for kids signing with schools like Idaho and Wyoming in this process. I looked at this year, of the 28 kids that signed with a D1 school 15 signed with Pac-12 schools, 8 signing with UW, 3 with Oregon, 2 to Cal and 1 to Arizona and Stanford and out of those 28 kids, 5 came from East of the mountains, Rypien to BSU, Lemieux to Oregon, Adams to Washington and Bamis to Idaho, the rest were on the westside. Why spend a lot of timing recruiting a state where you might get one or two kids in the state if you're lucky? Spend your time in California and Texas, those states produce over 700 kids a year, hell recruit Georgia harder. Washington just doesn't have the talent to invest a lot of time in recruiting, when you are producing maybe at best 15 Pac-12 caliber kids a year where already 50% of them are going to the EWE regardless.

State recruit production

 

[wazzubruce]

I agree.

For me it really doens't matter where the talent comes from..... kids from the State of W would be nice, but heck, go get them wherever they are, as long as they want to be Cougs.

 

[405 Coug]

WE offered around a dozen in state kids, paid for them to visit the school, showed them some of the best facilities in the country. And I think it's time to turn this whole discussion around, there are two sides to every story let's put it back on the kids, why are these kids from Washington State leaving to play for, Oregon, Boise, and Stanford.

 

[dgibbons]

Originally posted by 405 Coug:
WE offered around a dozen in state kids, paid for them to visit the school, showed them some of the best facilities in the country. And I think it's time to turn this whole discussion around, there are two sides to every story let's put it back on the kids, why are these kids from Washington State leaving to play for, Oregon, Boise, and Stanford.

I understand Stanford. Oregon is "cool." Boise is not.

 

[chipdouglas]

Originally posted by wazzubruce:

It really doens't matter where the talent comes from..... kids from the State of W would be nice, but heck, go get them wherever they are, as long as they want to be Cougs.

Agreed.

8 straight losing seasons and people still wonder why we can't keep in-state talent? Really? I have a pretty easy answer.

Give me Cali kids all day long. When we start winning with them, the WA kids--who are often less talented than many CA kids anyway--will come.

 

[BiggsCoug]

There was a time when WSU had 2 coaches recruiting Washington. Can you believe that? 2 guys to recruit maybe 15 kids combined.

WSU could decide not to recruit the Northwest at all and do just as well on the field.

 

[SDCoug]

Couldn't agree more. Football, like business, or even blackjack and craps is a numbers game. You need to pay attention and keep them in your favor. The only caveat being that you keep your toe in the water enough that you also, hopefully, get the occasional Derting. And if some of those 28 want to be Cougs and can perform at this level then great. But you can't assign a crap load of resources chasing such a small pool. Just doesn't make sense.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[longtimecoug]

Originally posted by BiggsCoug:
There was a time when WSU had 2 coaches recruiting Washington. Can you believe that? 2 guys to recruit maybe 15 kids combined.

WSU could decide not to recruit the Northwest at all and do just as well on the field.

agree completely, in sales you fish where the fish are, same thing in recruiting, IMO

 

[COCoug]

have to disagree


with anyone that says it isn't worth it to recruit Washington.
California is absolutely the foundation of our program- we can't compete without recruiting well in Cali. However, kids from Washington are worth their weight in gold.

First of all, it costs a fraction to recruit someone from Pasco or Spokane compared to kids from Maryland, Georgia, Samoa, ect. Second, in the past, the long distance recruits were the ones that quit after the second week of practice. In particular all of those kids from Texas back when we were "recruiting" Texas. But most importantly, it builds relationships with the programs and the coaches and the communities. There use to be a "pipeline" with Tacoma, and Price could go to any high school in the state and sit down with the coaches, and find out who might be the diamond in the rough. Plus, the in-state kids draw fans- people from Spokane, Ritzville, Wennatchee or the Tri-Cities will come to a game if there is a kid they have followed in high school. Rypien would have been a huge "get" in this regard.

I understand you need to put players on the field, and the pool in Washington is small. But, in the long run, WSU cannot recruit nationwide. To get back to where we were 10 years ago, we have to do really well in the West Coast, and it is worth whatever it takes to recruit Washington.

 

[dgibbons]

Re: have to disagree

What's the actual difference in cost? Airfare is the only difference I can think of.

 

[longtimecoug]

Re: have to disagree

Originally posted by COCoug:

with anyone that says it isn't worth it to recruit Washington.
California is absolutely the foundation of our program- we can't compete without recruiting well in Cali. However, kids from Washington are worth their weight in gold.

First of all, it costs a fraction to recruit someone from Pasco or Spokane compared to kids from Maryland, Georgia, Samoa, ect. Second, in the past, the long distance recruits were the ones that quit after the second week of practice. In particular all of those kids from Texas back when we were "recruiting" Texas. But most importantly, it builds relationships with the programs and the coaches and the communities. There use to be a "pipeline" with Tacoma, and Price could go to any high school in the state and sit down with the coaches, and find out who might be the diamond in the rough. Plus, the in-state kids draw fans- people from Spokane, Ritzville, Wennatchee or the Tri-Cities will come to a game if there is a kid they have followed in high school. Rypien would have been a huge "get" in this regard.

I understand you need to put players on the field, and the pool in Washington is small. But, in the long run, WSU cannot recruit nationwide. To get back to where we were 10 years ago, we have to do really well in the West Coast, and it is worth whatever it takes to recruit Washington.

we are recruiting Washington, the kids don't want to come, we can't survive on diamond in the rough players

 

[COCoug]

Re: have to disagree

Seriously?
What is the difference between 3 hours and 3 days?
Go to Expedia and plan a trip round trip from Pullman, WA to Maryland or American Samoa. Plan to spend enough time to watch a football game and meet with the family. You can't make that trip in less than 3 days/2 nights. Then multiply this by 2 or 3, assuming maybe both an assistant and the HC are going to make a visit. Then multiply this by 5, assuming that 4 out of 5 kids that we recruit aren't going to come to WSU.

This might come as a shock, but what you see on signing day is the tip of the iceberg, Probably 80% of the effort is spent on kids that didn't sign. Much better that effort is spent in Washington rather than 3 time zones away.

 

[SaveFerris]

Re: have to disagree


How does out-of-state tuition costs factor in? That doesn't change where we should focus recruiting but I assume the cost to the program is higher for out-of-state kids. Could be totally wrong though.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Re: have to disagree

You'd like the local talent to come to your school. What do you do when they won't give you the time of day? I understand that it's cheaper to bring in local kids. I also understand that there are less of them that are BCS kids. How many BCS kids to the Northwest produce this year versus any point in LA and a 25 mile radius???

I don't think WSU needs to recruit nationwide. I think they need to get the talent they can in the Northwest and then focus on California and Hawaii. If you still aren't finding the kids you need try casting the net a little wider. Maybe Chicago or Texas.

 

[YakiCoug]

Re: have to disagree

Originally posted by BiggsCoug:
You'd like the local talent to come to your school. What do you do when they won't give you the time of day? I understand that it's cheaper to bring in local kids. I also understand that there are less of them that are BCS kids. How many BCS kids to the Northwest produce this year versus any point in LA and a 25 mile radius???

I don't think WSU needs to recruit nationwide. I think they need to get the talent they can in the Northwest and then focus on California and Hawaii. If you still aren't finding the kids you need try casting the net a little wider. Maybe Chicago or Texas.

If an in-state prospect is legit and has a GPA 3.8 or higher, he belongs to Stanford. If he's a Seattle-area mama's boy who has stuffed his face with hotdogs at mutt games since he was 6, he's a mutt. Virtually everyone else is wearing an Oregon T-shirt or sweatshirt at his respective high school. Blame it on their growing up Disney/Donald Duck or this notion that Nike will give them a summer job or job after college, but most in-state kids follow the dollar these day. And it's green.

 

[Observer11]

Originally posted by wazzubruce:
I agree.

For me it really doens't matter where the talent comes from..... kids from the State of W would be nice, but heck, go get them wherever they are, as long as they want to be Cougs.

I guess I'll agree with that once the all-out-state roster puts up some bowl appearances.

 

[longtimecoug]

Originally posted by Observer11:

Originally posted by wazzubruce:
I agree.

For me it really doens't matter where the talent comes from..... kids from the State of W would be nice, but heck, go get them wherever they are, as long as they want to be Cougs.

I guess I'll agree with that once the all-out-state roster puts up some bowl appearances.

yes, because in state kids have taken us to so many bowls in the past

 

[dgibbons]

Re: have to disagree

Originally posted by COCoug:
Seriously?
What is the difference between 3 hours and 3 days?
Go to Expedia and plan a trip round trip from Pullman, WA to Maryland or American Samoa. Plan to spend enough time to watch a football game and meet with the family. You can't make that trip in less than 3 days/2 nights. Then multiply this by 2 or 3, assuming maybe both an assistant and the HC are going to make a visit. Then multiply this by 5, assuming that 4 out of 5 kids that we recruit aren't going to come to WSU.

This might come as a shock, but what you see on signing day is the tip of the iceberg, Probably 80% of the effort is spent on kids that didn't sign. Much better that effort is spent in Washington rather than 3 time zones away.

If they're travelling, they're traveling. They will be staying at a hotel wherever they go. They will be renting cars wherever they go, except Spokane. They will be eating at restaurants wherever they go. Every trip, expect maybe Spokane, is going to be at least overnight, and they actually Monday through Thursday after the season is over. If you've had the pleasure of travelling to small cities in the middle of nowhere, let's just use Butte, MT as an example, you would know that it can be more expensive than travelling to LA. If they go to an urban area, they're seeing more than one kid. Going to Samoa, they're seeing more than one kid, and visiting kids in Hawaii on the way there.

So again, the difference I see is airfare.

And the efforts made in Washington have not been as successful as the efforts made elsewhere. Of course, I'm sure Leach could make dreams true for some guys headed to Idaho or Eastern and save a few bucks along the way.

 

[wazzubruce]

Re: have to disagree


Before WSU starts snagging WA State players again, there is going to have to be some winning going on. This one main issue will go a long ways towards fixing the problem of no kids from WA State ending up at WSU.

Second, WSU is down the list on recruiting spending.... maybe they should consider spending a little more, given the geographical challenges of the school being in a rural area. 85% of WSU's recruiting slant should be on S. and N. California, the rest on Hawaii, the island kids, Texas, Colorado, Utah, Arizona. I like the idea of kids coming from FL too.

But until this program starts winning some games and going bowling yearly, we are going to continue to see WA State kids decked in Green & Purple & pee.

 

[Cougsocal]

Re: have to disagree

Originally posted by wazzubruce:

Before WSU starts snagging WA State players again, there is going to have to be some winning going on. This one main issue will go a long ways towards fixing the problem of no kids from WA State ending up at WSU.

Second, WSU is down the list on recruiting spending.... maybe they should consider spending a little more, given the geographical challenges of the school being in a rural area. 85% of WSU's recruiting slant should be on S. and N. California, the rest on Hawaii, the island kids, Texas, Colorado, Utah, Arizona. I like the idea of kids coming from FL too.

But until this program starts winning some games and going bowling yearly, we are going to continue to see WA State kids decked in Green & Purple & pee.

In the state of Washington, WSU is synonymous with losing for high school kids. Seniors haven't seen a winning Cougar football team since the second grade. Since junior high, if they bothered to tune in, they would have seen us lose 65 times, winning only 15 times, against D1 teams.

Thank god for the state of California, and the fact that most high school kids think the UW and WSU are the same. If they had the misfortune of having our ignominy chronicled in the press every week, we would have few takers from the Golden State as well.

 

[chipdouglas]

Re: have to disagree

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by wazzubruce:

Before WSU starts snagging WA State players again, there is going to have to be some winning going on. This one main issue will go a long ways towards fixing the problem of no kids from WA State ending up at WSU.

Second, WSU is down the list on recruiting spending.... maybe they should consider spending a little more, given the geographical challenges of the school being in a rural area. 85% of WSU's recruiting slant should be on S. and N. California, the rest on Hawaii, the island kids, Texas, Colorado, Utah, Arizona. I like the idea of kids coming from FL too.

But until this program starts winning some games and going bowling yearly, we are going to continue to see WA State kids decked in Green & Purple & pee.

In the state of Washington, WSU is synonymous with losing for high school kids. Seniors haven't seen a winning Cougar football team since the second grade. Since junior high, if they bothered to tune in, they would have seen us lose 65 times, winning only 15 times, against D1 teams.

Thank god for the state of California, and the fact that most high school kids think the UW and WSU are the same. If they had the misfortune of having our ignominy chronicled in the press every week, we would have few takers from the Golden State as well.

No kidding. The PAC-12 Northwest (WSU, UW, UO and OSU) has actually been pretty poor since 2000 with the exception of Oregon. In that time, we've gone 13-31 (0.295) against those teams.

If I'm a recruit from the NW, I know that WSU is who you verbal to until you get asked to the Prom by the fella you REALLY want to go with. Every year it happens, and IMO the recipe is getting off the ground with the right coaching, scheme and California recruits.

Then maybe we can get our hands on some of these all-world, elite, best-in-country recruits from Skyline HS. Gotta dream to dream.

 

[Observer11]

Originally posted by longtimecoug:

Originally posted by Observer11:

Originally posted by wazzubruce:
I agree.

For me it really doens't matter where the talent comes from..... kids from the State of W would be nice, but heck, go get them wherever they are, as long as they want to be Cougs.

I guess I'll agree with that once the all-out-state roster puts up some bowl appearances.

yes, because in state kids have taken us to so many bowls in the past

Even 1 is more than none. But at this point, the in-state populated teams have far more bowl games than what appears to be the trend to go out of state.

If the current trend continues, we can start the comparison 3 years in the future. Deal?

I simply don't believe the staff puts much effort into building relationships in-state as previous staffs (including the dismal Wulff results and the Rose Bowl 'dynasty' staffs of Mike Price). It is what it is. We shall see what the payoff eventually is. It's a numbers game - I get it. But I also know what got Mike Price there and Jim Walden when a bowl game really meant something and to a lesser degree, Bill Doba too. Kids from Okanogan, Richland, Curtis, Gonzaga Prep, Ferris, Kennewick, and so on.

I'll be fine if the strategy pays off. But until then, color me skeptical at best.

 

[Brent H.]

Kids have to be talented enough to get an offer. Of all the high schools on the east side of the state, 2 signed with Pac-12 schools and one signed with a good school. The players Price won with from Spokane, Tri-Cities were good players. Erik Coleman, Jeremy Williams, Al Genetone, Josh Parrish, Will Derting all were Pac-10 players. Spokane isn't producing the Pac-12 athletes, Singleton is from Pasco, but via Florida and you can see on his tape how much more gifted of an athlete he is than any other player in his league. You can only sign 25 kids, of those 25 5 usually don't make it to their senior year and of those 20 remaining maybe half contribute, it's a numbers game and you can't waste scholarships, especially at WSU. If you put a player like Oguaya in the GSL, he probably has more offers than Indiana and Pitt.

 

[MRICoug]

Re: have to disagree

Originally posted by COCoug:
Seriously?
What is the difference between 3 hours and 3 days?
Go to Expedia and plan a trip round trip from Pullman, WA to Maryland or American Samoa. Plan to spend enough time to watch a football game and meet with the family. You can't make that trip in less than 3 days/2 nights. Then multiply this by 2 or 3, assuming maybe both an assistant and the HC are going to make a visit. Then multiply this by 5, assuming that 4 out of 5 kids that we recruit aren't going to come to WSU.

This might come as a shock, but what you see on signing day is the tip of the iceberg, Probably 80% of the effort is spent on kids that didn't sign. Much better that effort is spent in Washington rather than 3 time zones away.

Perhaps, but you can spend 3 days looking at a multitude of players with the capacity to be successful in the Pac-12. In the Pasco trip you may see 1-2 similar to most places in WA. Not to bag on local recruits, but there is a reason the recruiting budget has expanded and much of it has to do with going after players other schools covet.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Recruiting is sort of like fishing...


...you go where the fish are if you want to limit out.

If you are happy with getting one fish...maybe even a very nice fish....then you can go lots of places. But if you want to limit out, you need to go somewhere with many fish of the type you are seeking.

Some years WA has more fish than other years, so you don't want to forget how to get to those fishing holes, and it makes sense to travel the paths regularly so you notice things that have changed, and you maintain familiarity with the landscape. And now and then there will be a great fish in a small fishing hole just down the street from your house. But from a planning and consistent effort standpoint, you need to focus on going where the fish live if you want to hit your limit every year.

 

[CougPatrol]

I'm surprised how few kids that Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, and the Dakota's put out. I know they're small states in terms of population, but I would have assumed that there are some big, country strong kids emerging from there.