The cowards up north

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

If they roll through the tournament and continue to post double digit margins of victory, will they go down as one of the best tourney teams ever?

Not asking to be provocative (though, if that works whatever), but because I'm not much of an MBB or tourney historian- I never much pay attention unless the Cougs are playing.

 

[chugspig]

In my eyes it will always be blemished. Fact is this year was the worst year for the “gelling” of teams. The field looks pretty different imo if every team has a normal year to practice and play. Doesn’t mean Gonzaga still wouldn’t have been the best team, but it is definitely an abnormal year.

 

[COCoug]

I never view them as legitimate. They have the same formula as the old Nebraska football or current SEC teams. Play only cupcakes plus 4 or 5 top teams, and you basically have a 5 game season and an automatic bid to the second round of the NCAA. Just play WSU, UW, Oregon and OSU every year if you are so good. Even in the Mountain West they wouldn't go undefeated.

 

[mikalalas]

I never view them as legitimate. They have the same formula as the old Nebraska football or current SEC teams. Play only cupcakes plus 4 or 5 top teams, and you basically have a 5 game season and an automatic bid to the second round of the NCAA. Just play WSU, UW, Oregon and OSU every year if you are so good. Even in the Mountain West they wouldn't go undefeated.

This, IF BYU, Gonzaga want to be taken seriously, as LEGIT, then they really need to join either the Mountain West, Big 12, Pac 12, etc, an or schedule at least 8,9,10,11,12+ GOOD Teams.

If they did that, no way, would they be unbeaten. In fact they would probably have at least 3,4,5+ losses.

The WCC, other then Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Mary's, San Fran, San Diego, Pepperdine, is usually GARBAGE, and usually there is usually only 2,3,4,5 good teams in the WCC, in any given year, USUALLY.

Until they have to go thru a monster conference meat grinder conference schedule, then they arent really that legit.

That said, it really isnt there fault, that they are not in the Pac 12, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, Big East, Mountain West, Atlantic 10, etc, and are instead in the WCC

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

This, IF BYU, Gonzaga want to be taken seriously, as LEGIT, then they really need to join either the Mountain West, Big 12, Pac 12, etc, an or schedule at least 8,9,10,11,12+ GOOD Teams.

If they did that, no way, would they be unbeaten. In fact they would probably have at least 3,4,5+ losses.

The WCC, other then Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Mary's, San Fran, San Diego, Pepperdine, is usually GARBAGE, and usually there is usually only 2,3,4,5 good teams in the WCC, in any given year, USUALLY.

Until they have to go thru a monster conference meat grinder conference schedule, then they arent really that legit.

That said, it really isnt there fault, that they are not in the Pac 12, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, Big East, Mountain West, Atlantic 10, etc, and are instead in the WCC

conference schedule aside, the just demolished SC by 20. I'm assuming we're counting the Trojans as a legit team?

 

[mikalalas]

conference schedule aside, the just demolished SC by 20. I'm assuming we're counting the Trojans as a legit team?

Yes USC is legit. And because Gonzaga destroyed USC, they are Semi Legit now.

But still Gonzaga is only beating a SMALL handful of Legit teams in both reg season, and in NCAA tourny, combined.

Gonzaga, this year, if they were in the Pac 12, Big 12, Big 10, Sec, ACC, Big East, etc, would probably be 27-3, and in the final 4, etc.

But be that as it is, they are still NOT in a big time conference, dont go thru a meat grinde4 conference schedule, and dont schedule 7 to 13 USC, Arizona, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, etc, per season.

If they did, then they would be more legit, get more credit, etc.

If Gonzaga wants to shut that up, they either have to win it all, an or either play in a real conference, an or schedule and play in a tougher schedule.

 

[COCoug]

How about playing USC 3 times? Along with 2 or 3 games with Oregon, UCLA, Arizona, Oregon State, and even WSU? Teams in a conference probe the leader and find their weaknesses, and over time morph into teams designed to beat the leader. They actually get that in the WCC, but nobody has the athletes to really contest them except BYU every other year.

 

[mikalalas]

How about playing USC 3 times? Along with 2 or 3 games with Oregon, UCLA, Arizona, Oregon State, and even WSU? Teams in a conference probe the leader and find their weaknesses, and over time morph into teams designed to beat the leader. They actually get that in the WCC, but nobody has the athletes to really contest them except BYU every other year.

And maybe 1 of either Saint Mary's, OR San Fran, OR San Diego, about every 3 to 6 to 9 years, in addition to BYU contesting Gonzaga every other year.

But other then that, Gonzaga and BYU, really have no peers, threats, competition, etc, to them in the WCC.

 

[Coug4life34]

If they roll through the tournament and continue to post double digit margins of victory, will they go down as one of the best tourney teams ever?

Not asking to be provocative (though, if that works whatever), but because I'm not much of an MBB or tourney historian- I never much pay attention unless the Cougs are playing.

I dislike Gonzaga for obvious reasons, but we should at least be realistic... while I don’t believe they would be undefeated in the PAC 12, clearly they have earned the right to be mentioned with some of the best teams all time..Especially if they Finnish this off..

 

[Glad Cougar]

If Gonzaga wants to shut that up, they either have to win it all, an or either play in a real conference, an or schedule and play in a tougher schedule.

I'm no fan of Gonzaga and would love to see UCLA beat them this weekend, but I'll give them credit for annually scheduling a challenging non-conference schedule of games. This year, even with COVID limitations, they played Kansas, Virginia, West Virginia, Iowa, and Auburn....and actually had Baylor on the schedule only to have it cancelled due to COVID. Few teams in the country put together a tougher OOC schedule than Gonzaga.

Glad Cougar

 

[COUGinNCW]

They definitely ramped it up this year but if you look back to the ~2005-2015 era they often played 2-3 “decent” power 5 games and then ran most of the rest of their weak schedule in collecting their auto birth which lead to them being overrated and early exists from the tournie. That was their smoke and mirror phase that helped build them to what they are today - a true power.

 

[COCoug]

I refuse to give them credit for their games in November and December. They play those games with absolutely nothing to lose, as they have a guaranteed spot in the tournament. They attract all of these transfers now because they are guaranteed to be into the second weekend, so they can compete easily early in the season. Its the grind of the conference play that defines teams, and its honestly the WSU's of each conferences on a snowy night in January that are the nightmares of the top teams. Plus, in normal seasons, they play cupcakes in the pre-season too.

 

[sylean]

just stop.....its embarressing to read such frivilous nonsense.....give the Zags their due.....I am just glad the west has UCLA and the Zags competing as well as two Texas teams....not an east coast team to be found....

 

[wazzucougs96]

This, IF BYU, Gonzaga want to be taken seriously, as LEGIT, then they really need to join either the Mountain West, Big 12, Pac 12, etc, an or schedule at least 8,9,10,11,12+ GOOD Teams.

If they did that, no way, would they be unbeaten. In fact they would probably have at least 3,4,5+ losses.

The WCC, other then Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Mary's, San Fran, San Diego, Pepperdine, is usually GARBAGE, and usually there is usually only 2,3,4,5 good teams in the WCC, in any given year, USUALLY.

Until they have to go thru a monster conference meat grinder conference schedule, then they arent really that legit.

That said, it really isnt there fault, that they are not in the Pac 12, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, Big East, Mountain West, Atlantic 10, etc, and are instead in the WCC

I hate Gonzaga but you are fooling yourself if you think Gonzaga isn't already taken seriously. Winning a national title will only solidify that.

 

[roses04]

They are undefeated, will most likely beat UCLA by 20+, and then it's Baylor, if they go undefeated this season, they will go down in History books as the first team do go through the 64 team field with an undefeated season, you can't take that away from them regardless of what conference they are in. No way are they like the UCLA teams of the 60's and 70's or one of the best of all time, they aren't Duke or NC, or Indiana in their glory years, maybe someday they will be mentioned with those teams, but not yet. However they are the best team this year, so I will give them credit for at, as much as it pains me. Since they have no football team, they will never be in a tough conference, but they have made the most of what they have. And being known as one of the perennial sweet 16 teams, it has help the university as well, which also pains me again to say. I will be routing for UCLA, but it won't help.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

I don't enjoy saying this, but GU has been the best team in the country all year and maaaaybe Baylor is the only other team I could put in that breath.

They're excellent this season, and they'll continue to be excellent as long as Few is there. They've played the big programs and compete with every single one of them.

I think Few is a dud for being too good to play WSU anymore unless it's GU's favor (how many years did WSU carry GU...?), but since game one this season I've been pretty honest with myself that I wouldn't be surprised if they win it all this year. It feels dirty even typing it, but I'm not going to pretend or be sour grapes about their program.

 

[Observer11]

I never view them as legitimate. They have the same formula as the old Nebraska football or current SEC teams. Play only cupcakes plus 4 or 5 top teams, and you basically have a 5 game season and an automatic bid to the second round of the NCAA. Just play WSU, UW, Oregon and OSU every year if you are so good. Even in the Mountain West they wouldn't go undefeated.

They just beat Kansas, West Virginia, Virginia, Iowa, BYU, Auburn, Creighton, Oklahoma and USC. Not sure who else they’re supposed to play to be legit.

Blame Moos for f’ing up WSU basketball so horribly with his buddy hire that Gonzaga won’t play the Cougs straight up any longer. They have better and bigger paydays than what was an interesting rivalry for a few years. Not Gonzaga’s fault. They just keep winning.

Coug fans claiming GU isn’t “real” don’t know jack about basketball. They’ve been real going on 20 years now.

 

[Coug4life34]

They just beat Kansas, West Virginia, Virginia, Iowa, BYU, Auburn, Creighton, Oklahoma and USC. Not sure who else they’re supposed to play to be legit.

Blame Moos for f’ing up WSU basketball so horribly with his buddy hire that Gonzaga won’t play the Cougs straight up any longer. They have better and bigger paydays than what was an interesting rivalry for a few years. Not Gonzaga’s fault. They just keep winning.

Coug fans claiming GU isn’t “real” don’t know jack about basketball. They’ve been real going on 20 years now.

I think you are spot on. I will go one step further. I hate Gonzaga but they are certainly one of the best teams ever. How anyone could compare today’s teams to the UCLA of the Wooden era I am uncertain. That was just toooo long ago. I do believe this team compares favorably to the Duke, Michigan, and UNLV teams of more recent lore. I hate to say it, but they have no weaknesses. For anyone taking notes, they also have 3 “possible” first round picks”, so the individual talent is not an issue to go along with fairly flawless execution. The upcoming battle against Baylor should be epic. Reminds me of that UNLV v. Duke battle that was so anticipated.

 

[Observer11]

I think you are spot on. I will go one step further. I hate Gonzaga but they are certainly one of the best teams ever. How anyone could compare today’s teams to the UCLA of the Wooden era I am uncertain. That was just toooo long ago. I do believe this team compares favorably to the Duke, Michigan, and UNLV teams of more recent lore. I hate to say it, but they have no weaknesses. For anyone taking notes, they also have 3 “possible” first round picks”, so the individual talent is not an issue to go along with fairly flawless execution. The upcoming battle against Baylor should be epic. Reminds me of that UNLV v. Duke battle that was so anticipated.

It's possible that Baylor or even UCLA knocks off the Zags. Vegas is saying that's unlikely but Vegas doesn't always get it right. Crazier things have happened in the NCAA tournament - UMBC knocking off Virginia or Villanova taking down Patrick Ewing's Georgetown team come to mind. It will take a complete anomaly of Gonzaga's season metrics for it to happen but it's possible.

Should Baylor make it to the final - it's going to take the refs swallowing their whistle and letting things get physical. Based on officiating so far this tournament, we haven't seen that on the mens' side. Left to move and run freely, Baylor can't keep up with the Zags offensively.

What is more concerning is UCLA's run. Cronin is going to make UCLA the bullies of the Pac-12 again.

 

[COUGinNCW]

They just beat Kansas, West Virginia, Virginia, Iowa, BYU, Auburn, Creighton, Oklahoma and USC. Not sure who else they’re supposed to play to be legit.

Blame Moos for f’ing up WSU basketball so horribly with his buddy hire that Gonzaga won’t play the Cougs straight up any longer. They have better and bigger paydays than what was an interesting rivalry for a few years. Not Gonzaga’s fault. They just keep winning.

Coug fans claiming GU isn’t “real” don’t know jack about basketball. They’ve been real going on 20 years now.

They were overrated pretty consistently from about 2004 - 2015. They were definitely a “real” program but the WCC was very weak at that time and easy to run and a lot of their OOC wins were against teams that didn’t end up being that good or didn’t take them too seriously because they had 16 more important games to play and they were still being underestimated. Their early exists from the tournie backs that up. It also helped build them up to who they are today (Consecutive tournie runs, high AP rankings etc).

That being said, it’s a truly amazing story. One of the greatest rags to riches stories in sports history even if a lot of their fans think Basketball was invented in 1999.

 

[7ICoug]

I don't enjoy saying this, but GU has been the best team in the country all year and maaaaybe Baylor is the only other team I could put in that breath.

They're excellent this season, and they'll continue to be excellent as long as Few is there. They've played the big programs and compete with every single one of them.

I think Few is a dud for being too good to play WSU anymore unless it's GU's favor (how many years did WSU carry GU...?), but since game one this season I've been pretty honest with myself that I wouldn't be surprised if they win it all this year. It feels dirty even typing it, but I'm not going to pretend or be sour grapes about their program.

Well isn't payback heck! We were the first to dump GU. Prior to Few.

 

[7ICoug]

Blame Moos for f’ing up WSU basketball so horribly with his buddy hire that Gonzaga won’t play the Cougs straight up any longer. They have better and bigger paydays than what was an interesting rivalry for a few years. Not Gonzaga’s fault. They just keep winning.

Coug fans claiming GU isn’t “real” don’t know jack about basketball. They’ve been real going on 20 years now.

Well said! And OMG I read some are thinking about Moos for Pac12 Commish. You gotta be kidding me. I still wonder to this day what Kent had on him.

 

[Rich Lewis]

Moos cared about football. The end.

 

[FnuLnu]

They just beat Kansas, West Virginia, Virginia, Iowa, BYU, Auburn, Creighton, Oklahoma and USC. Not sure who else they’re supposed to play to be legit.

Blame Moos for f’ing up WSU basketball so horribly with his buddy hire that Gonzaga won’t play the Cougs straight up any longer. They have better and bigger paydays than what was an interesting rivalry for a few years. Not Gonzaga’s fault. They just keep winning.

Coug fans claiming GU isn’t “real” don’t know jack about basketball. They’ve been real going on 20 years now.

Ken Bone signals for a timeout during your rant.

Unfortunate to kill the momentum arising from a D2/Big Sky coach with a 7 year contract at more money than the Big Sky football coach.

 

[7ICoug]

Ken Bone signals for a timeout during your rant.

Unfortunate to kill the momentum arising from a D2/Big Sky coach with a 7 year contract at more money than the Big Sky football coach.

Killer Kent signals for a Time-Out

That D2/Big Sky coach still had 80-86 record vs. Killer Kent's 58-98. Not even close and Ernie made a heck of a lot more money.

 

[FnuLnu]

Killer Kent signals for a Time-Out

That D2/Big Sky coach still had 80-86 record vs. Killer Kent's 58-98. Not even close and Ernie made a heck of a lot more money.

They both sucked.

Bone was Kevin Eastman without the X&O's.

The idea that he was Romar's brains at the UW is straight from the "white coach is the right coach" line of thinking.

Portland State on probation from his roster mismanagement.

 

[Coug4life34]

It's possible that Baylor or even UCLA knocks off the Zags. Vegas is saying that's unlikely but Vegas doesn't always get it right. Crazier things have happened in the NCAA tournament - UMBC knocking off Virginia or Villanova taking down Patrick Ewing's Georgetown team come to mind. It will take a complete anomaly of Gonzaga's season metrics for it to happen but it's possible.

Should Baylor make it to the final - it's going to take the refs swallowing their whistle and letting things get physical. Based on officiating so far this tournament, we haven't seen that on the mens' side. Left to move and run freely, Baylor can't keep up with the Zags offensively.

What is more concerning is UCLA's run. Cronin is going to make UCLA the bullies of the Pac-12 again.

Anything can happen for sure.. We don’t have to B better then you. We just have to be better then you today.

 

[7ICoug]

They both sucked.

They did both suck but Kent sucked much more than Bone. The proof is in the WL records.

 

[FnuLnu]

They did both suck but Kent sucked much more than Bone. The proof is in the WL records.

Had a future NBA HOFer and didn't make the NCAA tourney.

Instead benched him for misplacing his I-phone and being late.

 

[COUGinNCW]

I’ll stick with they both sucked. Bone inherited a decent program and ran it down. Ernie inherited a sinking ship and shot more holes in the boat.

 

[COCoug]

They just beat Kansas, West Virginia, Virginia, Iowa, BYU, Auburn, Creighton, Oklahoma and USC. Not sure who else they’re supposed to play to be legit.

Blame Moos for f’ing up WSU basketball so horribly with his buddy hire that Gonzaga won’t play the Cougs straight up any longer. They have better and bigger paydays than what was an interesting rivalry for a few years. Not Gonzaga’s fault. They just keep winning.

Coug fans claiming GU isn’t “real” don’t know jack about basketball. They’ve been real going on 20 years now.

They are definitely a very good team, and they beat some very good teams. But they only played them once, and they focus on the big names and don't schedule the solid unranked teams that can have a hot night and be great. Its just like UCONN women, playing a few tough early games and skating through a weak conference and getting the very favorable seed in the tournament. They look fantastic until they don't, and its not the team you think is going to beat them that beats them. Everyone could say that Oregon or Oregon State or WSU could never beat Gonzaga, but if they played just those 3 teams 3 times this year (representing a potential 3rd meeting in the PAC12 tournament), I bet they have at least one loss.

 

[mikalalas]

Basically there is only 1 way Gonzaga is going to SHUT UP the talk about Gonzaga.

Some might say that Gonzaga has already SHUT UP the talk about Gonzaga.

Gonzaga is, was very good this year.

But until Gonzaga WINS IT ALL, going 26+ wins in Reg season and winning WCC Tourny, and Winning the NCAA Tourny, all combined into 1 season, Gonzaga will get the TALK that they are CHOKERS, that cant win the big games in the CLUTCH, that gets UPSET by UPSET teams, that is only as good as they are because they play in the WEAK WCC, and because they dont play 7 to 13 DUKES, and dont have a MEAT GRINDER conference schedule, where they dont have to play A CONFERENCE DUKE TYPE 2,3 TIMES, has a EASY CONFERENCE TOURNY.

Right or Wrong, Fair or Not Fair, that talk wont stop until Gonzaga stops it by WINNING IT ALL.

If Gonzaga loses vs UCLA, or Loses Vs Baylor, or loses the NCAA Championship game, Gonzaga will be called a CHOKER, and the bad talk about Gonzaga will continue.

Instead of complaining about bad talk about Gonzaga by WSU fans, how about Gonzaga Shut the Talk up by winning it all, instead of Choking for a change

 

[etowncoug]

I’ll stick with they both sucked. Bone inherited a decent program and ran it down. Ernie inherited a sinking ship and shot more holes in the boat.

Had Kent replaced Bennett, I have a hard time believing he wouldn't have taken the Cougs to the NCAA tournament. Instead he inherited a program in the toilet and wasn't able to put together a complete team. Franks, Flynn, and Elleby were all pretty big talents... I can only imagine his results in recruiting would have been better if he had taken Klay Thompson the the NCAA tournament.

The question for Moos was whether or not he left the school in better shape than when he found it. The answer is undoubtedly yes. He'd push football hard and he's been good at developing the brand of both Oregon and WSU. He also has the respect of the conference big wigs. Moos has the respect needed to tell them to drop the olympic sports marketing and focus on FB. The conference could do worse.

 

[FnuLnu]

Had Kent replaced Bennett, I have a hard time believing he wouldn't have taken the Cougs to the NCAA tournament. Instead he inherited a program in the toilet and wasn't able to put together a complete team. Franks, Flynn, and Elleby were all pretty big talents... I can only imagine his results in recruiting would have been better if he had taken Klay Thompson the the NCAA tournament.

The question for Moos was whether or not he left the school in better shape than when he found it. The answer is undoubtedly yes. He'd push football hard and he's been good at developing the brand of both Oregon and WSU. He also has the respect of the conference big wigs. Moos has the respect needed to tell them to drop the olympic sports marketing and focus on FB. The conference could do worse.

Too old and almost botched Wulff firing.

Should've a Day One firing.

Also too many NW folks on search committee, wouldn't look good.

He is a Pac12 guy, but they need more than that.

 

[mikalalas]

Gonzaga MIRACLE BUTSHETLUCKED A HALFCOURT THROW UP AT THE BUZZER AT THE END OF THE 2ND OVERTIME TO AVOID YET ANOTHER CHOKE.

Even tho Gonzaga TECHNICALLY won, they still SEMI CHOKED it, didnt deserve to win, the way they allowed UCLA to stay in it.

So unless they win it all DECISIVELY vs Baylor, the OVERRATED TALK STILL STANDS

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Gonzaga MIRACLE BUTSHETLUCKED A HALFCOURT THROW UP AT THE BUZZER AT THE END OF THE 2ND OVERTIME TO AVOID YET ANOTHER CHOKE.

Even tho Gonzaga TECHNICALLY won, they still SEMI CHOKED it, didnt deserve to win, the way they allowed UCLA to stay in it.

So unless they win it all DECISIVELY vs Baylor, the OVERRATED TALK STILL STANDS

wrong.

ucla came in with a plan and executed it almost to perfection. that isn't Zags choking, that's Zags seeing good coaching/matchups/effort.

 

[mikalalas]

UCLA and Pac 12 just proved that the Pac 12 is the BEST CONFERENCE

 

[COCoug]

So I guess if Gonzaga is the best team ever, than a 12 loss UCLA team (that WSU beat) is the second best team ever. Few just said it was the toughest game they have had in years. It was just another PAC12 conference game....

 

[mikalalas]

wrong.

ucla came in with a plan and executed it almost to perfection. that isn't Zags choking, that's Zags seeing good coaching/matchups/effort.

STILL TOOK A MIRACLE BUTSHETLUCK HALF COURT SHOT FOR GONZAGA TO TECHNICALLY WIN.

UCLA DESERVED TO WIN, AND SHOULD HAVE WON AND WOULD HAVE WON IF NOT FOR THE MIRACLE BUTSHETLUCK HALF COURT SHOT THAT TECHNICALLY WON THE GAME FOR GONZAGA.

 

[mikalalas]

So I guess if Gonzaga is the best team ever, than a 12 loss UCLA team (that WSU beat) is the second best team ever. Few just said it was the toughest game they have had in years. It was just another PAC12 conference game....

Yep Gonzaga STILL OVERRATED, unless they beat Baylor in the Championship by 13 to 40 points.

If Gonzaga wins by 2 vs Baylor, then because of the UCLA game, they are STILL OVERRATED.

Time for Gonzaga to CLEARLY PROVE they are the best.

I dont think that will happen.

I think Baylor beats Gonzaga, and Gonzaga CHOKES IT AGAIN for the ZILLIONTH time.

OVERRATED