Two-year football scheduling alliance with the Mountain West

[mikalalas]

Angie is smoking hot. Damn. Buddy beyond that, Beggers can't be choosers. We are beggars right now.

So are MWC teams, especially the weakest, most pathetic MWC team(s), are beggars to get into either a P4, P5, or G5/P5 HYBRID like a PROPERLY rebuilt PAC brand.

The MWC teams stand to lose about 2 to 4 to 6 to 8 million per team, and access to better bowls like Holiday, Las Vegas, Alamo, Cotton, Fiesta, Peach, CFP, etc, if they don't either join PAC or stop the 1,2,3 weakest MWC teams from joining PAC, while the 7,8,9 strongest MWC teams join PAC.

And they stand to lose prestige, better schedules, and using PAC as stepping stone to 1 of the other P4 conferences, etc.

They are just as much BEGGARS as WSU, OSU, PAC 2/X.

And if they play hardball too hard against WSU, OSU, PAC in negotiation, and try to force PAC to take ALL, even the worst MWC team, they will not only hurt the PAC, BUT HURT THEMSELVES.

The needs of the top 7,8,9,10 teams in the MWC, outweigh the needs of the weakest most pathetic team(s) in the MWC

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Oregon Stater here. Congrats on the big win in Colfax! Nice to have WSU as a partner!

Regarding scheduling football the next two years, I just came across this, published earlier today:

Pac-2 Scheduling Alliance with the Mountain West...Not So Fast

Without having a subscription (although I'm tempted now!), here's the key thing I saw in the teaser:

BeaverBlitz has learned that Oregon State is looking at a 2024 schedule that would include 5 Power Four conference programs, 6 Group of Five programs and an FCS opponent. Previously released schedules had the Beavers playing Purdue, Boise State and Idaho State in 2024. Coaches have already been telling recruits that the team will be playing an independent schedule.

The writer of the article is Angie Machado. In a nutshell, Angie is as well connected as anyone with Oregon State sports, and she's been around for years. Very, very high chance she got this right.

By the way, I would be seriously disappointed if WSU & OSU "just joined" the Mountain West Conf. Basically, we would be turning ourselves into G5 schools.

There are schools in the MWC that would like to move up to a better conference, like SDSU, Fresno St., & Boise St. It would be absolutely appalling if a handful of schools in the MWC, like Nevada, New Mexico St., and Wyoming, were allowed to prevent OSU, WSU, SDSU, Fresno St., & Boise St. from getting together to form a better conference.

I don't doubt that OSU is holding out for a P4 deal, as they are in a much better situation than WSU financially.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Didn’t we have the third most league wins under Leach from 2015-2019 or something like that? Yes, a fairly short time period, but we shouldn’t run down our overachieving results. We should have been in last place EVERY year. We certainly weren’t.

I'd like to say that the Cougs were good AND simply better than the rest of the Pac, but bowl records (our and the rest of the conference) tell a different story - the Cougs were feasting on a league that was largely bereft of talent.

 

[Dave_86]

I don't doubt that OSU is holding out for a P4 deal, as they are in a much better situation than WSU financially.

I would be absolutely disgusted with Oregon State if OSU went somewhere, like a Power 4 conference, without Washington State. That would not represent me at all. That's not how we rally together to work our way through these unfortunate situations.

Being located in the Portland area, I have heard of a few UO Duck fans wanting to discontinue their season tickets because of how they feel about Oregon's role in breaking up the PAC-12.

mikalalas - You make a very, very good point about the PAC-12's bowl ties. I have to believe that schools like Boise St., Fresno St., and SDSU are very frustrated right now that they can't dump the MWC, join the PAC-2, and give themselves a chance at access to those bowl games you listed. They're stuck in the MWC just to benefit schools like Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii, etc. Pathetic.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I would be absolutely disgusted with Oregon State if OSU went somewhere, like a Power 4 conference, without Washington State. That would not represent me at all. That's not how we rally together to work our way through these unfortunate situations.

Being located in the Portland area, I have heard of a few UO Duck fans wanting to discontinue their season tickets because of how they feel about Oregon's role in breaking up the PAC-12.

mikalalas - You make a very, very good point about the PAC-12's bowl ties. I have to believe that schools like Boise St., Fresno St., and SDSU are very frustrated right now that they can't dump the MWC, join the PAC-2, and give themselves a chance at access to those bowl games you listed. They're stuck in the MWC just to benefit schools like Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii, etc. Pathetic.

I think as fans we all feel that way, but the institutions will do what they believe to be best for themselves, staff, students and athletes. As disgusted as I would be by it, I have no doubt that if a P4 came along with a deal for only WSU, the WSU people would take it without a second thought.

Just add it to the list of things that disgust me about the current state of college football.

 

[Dave_86]

Angie is smoking hot. Damn. Buddy beyond that, Beggers can't be choosers. We are beggars right now.

Loyal - I'm going to check out as this is a Cougar board and I'm just an OSU guy, but Angie just did an interview today on 365 Sports:

Angie & 365 Sports

Basically, Angie is saying that OSU joining the MWC would be a disaster, which are my feelings as well. (Similar to comments as mikalalas & I have shared in this thread.)

I wonder if what we're about to see is this:
Step 1: OSU & WSU win control of the PAC-12, guaranteeing that revenue that comes in after the 2023-2024 season stays with the PAC-2 and isn't split 12 ways
Step 2: The post 2023-2024 money is used by OSU & WSU to implement the "2 year stall plan". Kirk Schulz has said in an interview that the 2 year stall tactic is a possibility.
Step 3: After 2 years, the PAC-2 grabs 6 or 7 MWC teams when their TV contract expires, meaning no MWC exit fees

Hurry up and get your football schedule done for 2024! We love the Cougars, but we don't want to have to play WSU 6 times in 2024!

 

[COUGinNCW]

Loyal - I'm going to check out as this is a Cougar board and I'm just an OSU guy, but Angie just did an interview today on 365 Sports:

Angie & 365 Sports

Basically, Angie is saying that OSU joining the MWC would be a disaster, which are my feelings as well. (Similar to comments as mikalalas & I have shared in this thread.)

I wonder if what we're about to see is this:
Step 1: OSU & WSU win control of the PAC-12, guaranteeing that revenue that comes in after the 2023-2024 season stays with the PAC-2 and isn't split 12 ways
Step 2: The post 2023-2024 money is used by OSU & WSU to implement the "2 year stall plan". Kirk Schulz has said in an interview that the 2 year stall tactic is a possibility.
Step 3: After 2 years, the PAC-2 grabs 6 or 7 MWC teams when their TV contract expires, meaning no MWC exit fees

Hurry up and get your football schedule done for 2024! We love the Cougars, but we don't want to have to play WSU 6 times in 2024!

CSU, sdsu, UNLV, Fresno, Boise then it gets dicey. SJSU? Reno? AFA?
I’d keep it at no more than 8 for SOS assuming everyone can get some good ooc matchups.

 

[Observer11]

This MWC scheduling alliance/merger stuff is all well and good - but what is different about it than any other G5 conference?

There needs to be something disruptive about it vs. just becoming the junior version of the big boy conferences. Perhaps that means 4 year scholarship guarantees. Perhaps that means revenue sharing, salary caps, CAPEX limits.

Otherwise we are just looking at rinse/repeat with each member looking to jump to the next big thing.

It's insane to think OSU, WSU or any MWC can compete financially with the big boys. There has to be a differentiator.

 

[Coug90]

I think as fans we all feel that way, but the institutions will do what they believe to be best for themselves, staff, students and athletes. As disgusted as I would be by it, I have no doubt that if a P4 came along with a deal for only WSU, the WSU people would take it without a second thought.

Just add it to the list of things that disgust me about the current state of college football.

yup. It’s every man for himself…conference, school, player, coach. There are no loyalties. There’s no doubt WSU would do a back room deal with the B12 if they wanted us and not OSU, even with the solidarity we’ve had since the others departed.

 

[kougkurt]

This MWC scheduling alliance/merger stuff is all well and good - but what is different about it than any other G5 conference?

There needs to be something disruptive about it vs. just becoming the junior version of the big boy conferences. Perhaps that means 4 year scholarship guarantees. Perhaps that means revenue sharing, salary caps, CAPEX limits.

Otherwise we are just looking at rinse/repeat with each member looking to jump to the next big thing.

It's insane to think OSU, WSU or any MWC can compete financially with the big boys. There has to be a differentiator.

I think the one thing the settlement gives the Cougs is time. We need a schedule and this alliance gives us one Two years of this, then pick and choose who to recreate the Pac with Having said this, the next 2 years are going to be brutal from an exodus and recruiting standpoint.

 

[CougPatrol]

I don't see a straight up merger with the MWC happening. In fact, there was protective language used in the article in the event that WSU and OSU don't fully merge and instead take only qualified members. The key is, how much are WSU and OSU on the hook if we break the alliance?

 

[dgibbons]

I don't doubt that OSU is holding out for a P4 deal, as they are in a much better situation than WSU financially.

Not sure about that.

Oregon State Nears $162 Million Stadium Remodel As Pac-12 Falls

Pac-12 remaining member Oregon State is finalizing a $162 million renovation project to its football stadium amid realignment turmoil.

frontofficesports.com

 

[dgibbons]

I don't see a straight up merger with the MWC happening. In fact, there was protective language used in the article in the event that WSU and OSU don't fully merge and instead take only qualified members. The key is, how much are WSU and OSU on the hook if we break the alliance?

We don't. It sounds like it lasts two years. And it's possible that the MWC dissolves, assuming sufficient votes (which would correlate to the schools invited to the new PAC) are there.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Not sure about that.

Oregon State Nears $162 Million Stadium Remodel As Pac-12 Falls

Pac-12 remaining member Oregon State is finalizing a $162 million renovation project to its football stadium amid realignment turmoil.

frontofficesports.com

having a whale donor>>>>> not having a whale donor.

their alumni giving has surpassed ours.

 

[kougkurt]

having a whale donor>>>>> not having a whale donor.

their alumni giving has surpassed ours.

1.2 mil in their NIL bank And growing.

 

[dgibbons]

having a whale donor>>>>> not having a whale donor.

their alumni giving has surpassed ours.

And WSU's bonds have been getting paid down for about 10 years.

Shrug.

 

[PeteTheChop]

yup. It’s every man for himself…conference, school, player, coach. There are no loyalties. There’s no doubt WSU would do a back room deal with the B12 if they wanted us and not OSU, even with the solidarity we’ve had since the others departed.

Well, Dr. Schulz's duty is to do what's best by WSU ... and that's it.

 

[CougPatrol]

Well, Dr. Schulz's duty is to do what's best by WSU ... and that's it.

I don’t think the B12 is best for WSU

 

[Coug90]

I don’t think the B12 is best for WSU

It’s not best. Best would be 10 other schools not jumping ship and having a PAC Conference. Big 12 is the next best option.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I don’t think the B12 is best for WSU

CP, what do you think would be a better option for going foward for WSU ... and why so?

The Big XII with the Cougs (and Beavs along with UA, ASU, CU and Utah) seems really exciting.

Could be some really good football and basketball -- not to mention the media deals with ESPN and FOX

 

[PeteTheChop]

I don't doubt that OSU is holding out for a P4 deal, as they are in a much better situation than WSU financially.

Much better??

 

[CougPatrol]

CP, what do you think would be a better option for going foward for WSU ... and why so?

The Big XII with the Cougs (and Beavs along with UA, ASU, CU and Utah) seems really exciting.

Could be some really good football and basketball -- not to mention the media deals with ESPN and FOX

I’ve pivoted on this issue over the past few months. I think the best path for WSU is to use the pending settlement money, payoff our debts, and rebuild the p12 with an east / west pod of teams.

We’ll never be able to compete in a blue blood super conference league, so the best option is to land in the top “other” conference where the league champion receives a bid to the playoff. That would be exciting for our fans and allow us to maintain our regionally, which I believe is critically important to us.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

CP, what do you think would be a better option for going foward for WSU ... and why so?

The Big XII with the Cougs (and Beavs along with UA, ASU, CU and Utah) seems really exciting.

Could be some really good football and basketball -- not to mention the media deals with ESPN and FOX

First, I think the Big XII would be better for WSU in a lot of ways. Better money, new opponents, variety of destinations. That said, the Big XII is not "big boy football" in the way that the SEC and B1G view themselves. Utah is going to be the biggest name in football in the conference next year. All BS aside, the MWC, even with the four traitors is a second tier football league. Remember how none of us really wanted any of them last year? Yeah....the B1G and the SEC still feel the same and their opinion matters.

In the longer term, if the Pac-MWC merged conference can get their payout to 2/3rds of what the Big XII gets, we'd be a lot better off there than in the Big XII. I would take the Big XII in a heartbeat, but the teams in the conference would cut ties in a heartbeat if they were given the chance to get into the SEC or B1G.

 

[95coug]

It’s not best. Best would be 10 other schools not jumping ship and having a PAC Conference. Big 12 is the next best option.

Problem is that the Big 12 isn't an option. If it was, we'd already be there.

The settlement doesn't matter, we're not "buying our way in." The networks don't care about us handing them a couple million in 2024. They want a continuous infusion of millions over time, with growth potential. Us and the beavers aren't in markets, and our viewership doesn't fit the network metrics. They don't see growth...and in reality, it's probably limited.

ADDING:
Reality is that, even if a Big 12 invitation suddenly came through and we took it, it's a temporary reprieve. There will be another round of realignment in a few years. More teams will move toward the superconferences - which will be the Big 10 and SEC. The teams who aren't in are going to move further away. We're not going to be included. Ever.

The Big 12 is likely to position itself as the premier basketball conference. When the ACC implodes, they'll try for the schools with the best basketball programs, who also play football. Neither us or the beavers are going to be attractive as basketball schools either. Again, we're not going to be included.

Our best play right now is to accept that we're getting relegated. If it happens in 2023-24, we've got the chance of it occurring with a financial windfall from the dissolution of the Pac-12. If it happens in 2025 or 2026, that windfall isn't there. So, we need to do the smart thing - take the money, pay the debt, and set up a nest egg for future expenses. Face the inevitable.

 

[PeteTheChop]

We’ll never be able to compete in a blue blood super conference league, so the best option is to land in the top “other” conference where the league champion receives a bid to the playoff. That would be exciting for our fans and allow us to maintain our regionally, which I believe is critically important to us.

In the longer term, if the Pac-MWC merged conference can get their payout to 2/3rds of what the Big XII gets, we'd be a lot better off there than in the Big XII. I would take the Big XII in a heartbeat, but the teams in the conference would cut ties in a heartbeat if they were given the chance to get into the SEC or B1G.

Y'all make a lot of sense with your points, but the Big XII sure seems like the more prudent pick in terms of media rights money and exposure.

The perception of the new Big XII and rebooted Pac/MWC and would be every bit as wide as the gap between the new Big XII and the SEC/Big Ten mega-conferences.

Not to mention what do y'all think would happen if the Big XII's aggressive commissioner ever made a run at the likes of San Diego State and UNLV? I'd guess they'd be gone from the new Pac in a NY minute.

The pecking order's gonna be:

1. SEC
2. Big Ten
(big gap)
3. Big XII
(big gap)
4. Pac-2/MWC merger
(gap)
5. G-5 conferences

Just imo, but Dr. Schultz shouldn't let being comfortable be his reason not to pursue the highest option

 

[Fab5Coug]

There are plenty of 4-8, 5-7, 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 teams like Nebraska, etc, that would agree to do 1 home game, in Pullman, and 2 games in Nebraska.

Wisconsin did a home game in Pullman.

Teams like Minnesota, Michigan STATE, KSU, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Missouri, Mississippi ST, Ole Miss, Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, Nebraska, Rutgers, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Wisconsin(They already did it once), Maybe Tennessee, Maybe Miami, and any 5-7, 6-6, 7-5 team, etc, WOULD ALL PROBABLY AGREE TO DO 1 FOOTBALL GAME IN PULLMAN, in exchange for 1 or 2 road games.

Ohio State, Blue Blood, Tier 1 types: Yeah, they wouldn't go to Pullman.

Tier 2, semi blue bloods(Wisconsin, Tennessee), types, semi maybe, semi probably not, visit Pullman

Tier 3, Nebraska, Michigan St types, semi probably visit Pullman.

Tier 4, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma St, etc probably visit Pullman

Tier 5, Minnesota, KSU, Texas Tech would visit Pullman

Tier 6, like Rutgers, would go to Pullman

Just because a team is P5, P4, does not mean that they are a blue blood that would not visit Pullman

Wisconsin and Illinois are the only programs you have listed that have ever been to Pullman in my Coug fan lifetime. Now that we're no longer a Pac12 program, there is no way any of those schools agree to come to Pullman. Why would they? Unless we are offering them a huge bag to do so, which we obviously can't.

 

[CougPatrol]

Now that Oregon and UW are in the B!G, there’s no incentive for any B!G programs to travel to Pullman. They’re already playing in the NW.

 

[95coug]

Now that Oregon and UW are in the B!G, there’s no incentive for any B!G programs to travel to Pullman. They’re already playing in the NW.

Because of this, don't be surprised if talk of the Seattle game starts again.

 

[CougPatrol]

Because of this, don't be surprised if talk of the Seattle game starts again.

The Seattle game used to be a silly option, but now it’s going to take on greater importance.we need to maintain a Seattle presence.