Walden, Moos, etc redux

[CougEd]

I'm having a hard time understanding why that matters? Who cares how much he donated? All that means is he likes the university. What is that supposed to prove? I don't hate or love Walden, but I can see why people got pissed with his antics regarding Wulff.

Why do people hold onto the past so hard? A past that was crap 90% of the time. Are people really afraid to move on to new things?

Orange I will connect the dots. By him donating his own money that was in savings told tells us he has a personal connection to the university. It explains his emotion around the position and his loyalty to Paul Wulff. And if someone doesn't think Leach would defend Hal Mumme or others he is connected to in a similar manner I think is being naive.

 

[dgibbons]

Would you change your mind if I took the time to debate it? Oh yeah, you already said that you have made up your mind and that there's no debate that will change it. To me, it doesn't matter any more. His position in the coaching history at WSU is just as relevant as Forest Evashevskie or Jackie Sherrill or others at this point. Further pissing matches about it is futile and stupid. We know that he is worst in your opinion and that's just as valid as anybody else's opinion.

If you want to have the debate, let’s have it.

Who’s worse? Explain why.

 

[CougEd]

He had a piss poor plan. He was out coached every week. He hired an awful staff. He has the personality of a brick.

He did have issues to overcome from the university and the mess he took over. I wouldn't deny him that.

He just isn't a good coach at the BCS level. Instead of pointing fingers at everyone else maybe he should point the finger and himself and be accountable?

He left 6 OL for Coach Leach. 4 of which were 260lbs or less. Does he know you need 5 to play? Simply embarrassing how bad he was as a coach. Piss poor management of a BCS roster and program. He will never coach at this level again.

First, you nailed it. The mess he took over. Doba took over a Rose Bowl team. Changed a recruiting strategy thanks to Pflugrad, changed an offensive philosophy just at the time when the Pac 10/12 was going the opposite direction. They started recruiting kids who were B- kids that had no business getting a Pac 10 offer. To top it off he went three recruiting cycles and had one DT to show for it.

For the sake of discussion I will say 2008 should have been better. Not sure why people think that in light of losing a four year starter at QB and two DT's. The last time we saw something similar in terms of those important positions was 1998. We didn't win a Pac 10 game and we had Gary Holmes to anchor one DT position.

But lets say he should have won two more games in 08. Who was the Pac 10 QB? Cole Morgan? The guy could barely start for Western. Lopina? The most inaccurate passer since Paul Mencke...and he became a WR.

Who was there to play DT in 09? QB? Heck, we had a corner that moved to SS that was run down from behind against Hawaii that showed the lack of speed.

Ayers, Freitag, Rowlands (walked away after fall practice) didn't play, the first two because of injury.

You are correct, they hired the wrong guy to clean up that mess. They needed someone who has coached in the Pac 10, who had connection in the Pac 10, who recruited with success in the Pac 10, and they had they person in Price and Moos, Sterk and Floyd didn't pull the trigger.

Yes, Wulff has zero personality. None. Doesn't mean kids don't identify with him. Simply means he is boring. What plan was Wulff wrong on? That he needed to recruit before he could put his staff together? Hell, Leach had 20 kids to pick and choose from. Dumped half the class. Wulff didn't have that choice. Half of zero is zero.

In terms of 260 pound lineman that is just horse crap. Did he leave 15 in the fold? No. He left I believe 8 plus the five in the recruiting class, plus Joe Dahl was coming back to campus regardless who the coach was.

Spitz was 6'6' 290, Rodgers was 6'6" 300, Rico Forbes was 300, Christ was 300 (you don't need to count him) Fullington was 297, Ecklund a walkon was close to 300, Bosch was 260, Goetz was 259. (and btw a Leach recruit at Tech). So say what you will, that they suck etc., but he had a line of 260 ponders. And there were five recruits in that class so he was left with somewhere between 13-14 kids for his first team. And four of those recruits started for Leach the following two years. So he made lemonade out of lemons.

Will he be a head coach again? Maybe at a place in Montana. Chances are less than 40%, but only takes one AD. Heck, Jody Sears and staff I saw just got an extension, and my guess is Wulff is still on that staff. And Sac State is a tough place to recruit and win.

And no, he couldn't point the finger at himself. His Pac 10 inexperience prevented that. Hell, we complained his staff was D2 and didn't have experience. Then when McGuire is hired who never coached or played Oline it is a wait and see process. His lack of Pac 10/12 credentials prohibited him from saying it was him. Again, why Price should have been hired. After all, he went from the Penthouse in 97 to the Outhouse in 98.

And maybe his staff was awful. But I do give him credit for doing something Doba did not do-after an evaluation period of two years he got rid of Harold Etheridge (who went on to be asst coach of the year somewhere else) and hired Mortin, got rid of his Dline coach and linebackers coach and upgraded with a coach from UCLA and Chris Tormey. Didn't work out for him. But this is a shared event. Doba, Sterk, Moos,Floyd, and Wulff. Anything less is disingenuous.

 

[CougEd]

If you want to have the debate, let’s have it.

Who’s worse? Explain why.

Doba. (and I love the guy) Inherited a team of 10 wins, changed the recruiting strategy, changed the offensive strategy, hired a bunch of lazy recruiters, and only time he made a staff change is when one of his coaches had "personal issues".

He thought JT Levinseller and Cole Morgan were Pac 10 QB's. Even the guy who sucked left Leach Tuel (cup of coffee in NFL) Halliday (led Pac 10 in passing), Austin Apodaca (who had enough talent to play at New Mexico) and Clements (who played at UAB). He had such attrition we had scholies yanked). If Doba was hired in 2008 you would have seen similiar or worse results.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Doba. (and I love the guy) Inherited a team of 10 wins, changed the recruiting strategy, changed the offensive strategy, hired a bunch of lazy recruiters, and only time he made a staff change is when one of his coaches had "personal issues".

He thought JT Levinseller and Cole Morgan were Pac 10 QB's. Even the guy who sucked left Leach Tuel (cup of coffee in NFL) Halliday (led Pac 10 in passing), Austin Apodaca (who had enough talent to play at New Mexico) and Clements (who played at UAB). He had such attrition we had scholies yanked). If Doba was hired in 2008 you would have seen similiar or worse results.

I never will understand that regime. You had a bunch of former star WSU players, several with NFL experience. Who better to sell the program including a potential NFL future to recruits? But yeah they got lazy and Doba's wife got cancer and it all went downhill. Just makes no sense.

 

[dgibbons]

Doba. (and I love the guy) Inherited a team of 10 wins, changed the recruiting strategy, changed the offensive strategy, hired a bunch of lazy recruiters, and only time he made a staff change is when one of his coaches had "personal issues".

He thought JT Levinseller and Cole Morgan were Pac 10 QB's. Even the guy who sucked left Leach Tuel (cup of coffee in NFL) Halliday (led Pac 10 in passing), Austin Apodaca (who had enough talent to play at New Mexico) and Clements (who played at UAB). He had such attrition we had scholies yanked). If Doba was hired in 2008 you would have seen similiar or worse results.

You’re just proving you’re an idiot. And this post was not directed at you anyway. Wulff thought Max Gama (and a host of others that never saw the field) was a pac-12 caliber player. That magic eye for talent went blind.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

If you want to have the debate, let’s have it.

Who’s worse? Explain why.

That's the thing.......I don't really want to talk about Wulff. Why not start a thread talking about how great next year is going to be? It's more meaningful than trying to compare a bunch of guys that aren't around any more.

 

[CougEd]

You’re just proving you’re an idiot. And this post was not directed at you anyway. Wulff thought Max Gama (and a host of others that never saw the field) was a pac-12 caliber player. That magic eye for talent went blind.

Well....most of my posts are not "directed" towards you but you add your pennies to the conversation. Isnt that the purpose of a message board. Do you really want to go player by player?...You mean like Shelton Danzy, Conorris Adtkins, Williams, Williams, Jessen, Bluhm, Baird, Joseph, all whom were recruited off or close to off of three ten win seasons. Our three 10 win seasons were well in the background when Gama and others were recruited. And Doba had something to sell. Pac 10 Championship and three consecutive bowl games. With Gama and others they were hopeful. They had 13 scholie defensive players in the 09 Apple Cup.

The ship was close to being finished and Doba ran it into the ground. Once there was a huge hole in the hull they went cheap and asked someone who never worked on that type of boat to fix it.

Leach thought Sale was a Pac 12 player. Mistakes are made. But Leach never had Cole Morgan and Levenseller on the roster as potentially the QB's of the future.

And since personal attacks are prohibited I will take the term idiot as a compliment.

 

[FnuLnu]

I never will understand that regime. You had a bunch of former star WSU players, several with NFL experience. Who better to sell the program including a potential NFL future to recruits? But yeah they got lazy and Doba's wife got cancer and it all went downhill. Just makes no sense.

How was it a surprise?
If they were too lazy to go to class as players, they weren't going to work hard to recruit as coaches.
Jim "Hire My Player" Walden doesn't appear to have any alum assistants on his staffs.

 

[CougEd]

I never will understand that regime. You had a bunch of former star WSU players, several with NFL experience. Who better to sell the program including a potential NFL future to recruits? But yeah they got lazy and Doba's wife got cancer and it all went downhill. Just makes no sense.

In part they thought because they were Cougs they knew how to sell being a Coug. They were lazy, and they were dysfunctional, and they were behind the times. Who would you rather play for, some young coach like Tedford who is wide open or a guy who wanted ball control like Mike Ditka? That was the message being sent to recruits. Then they went head to head with USC and lost, and the Marcus Trufants who were A- kids went elsewhere. Doba should have just over-signed classes. And the offensive changed made it harder to recruit not only offensive guys, but the defensive guys that were getting promised to get a look on the offensive side didn't want to go to an old school offense.

Childs wanted to be the next Broussard. They recruited him with the promise he gets a shot at RB. They probably knew all along they were moving him to the defensive side.Guys like him didn't want to play "offense' in a ball control system. They simply made two bad decisions to start off with and then it snowballed from there.

 

[FnuLnu]

Doba. (and I love the guy) Inherited a team of 10 wins, changed the recruiting strategy, changed the offensive strategy, hired a bunch of lazy recruiters, and only time he made a staff change is when one of his coaches had "personal issues".

He thought JT Levinseller and Cole Morgan were Pac 10 QB's. Even the guy who sucked left Leach Tuel (cup of coffee in NFL) Halliday (led Pac 10 in passing), Austin Apodaca (who had enough talent to play at New Mexico) and Clements (who played at UAB). He had such attrition we had scholies yanked). If Doba was hired in 2008 you would have seen similiar or worse results.

Wulff's QBs going down to injury vs FCS teams (and basically everybody) was a feature, not a bug of Sturdy's offense.
Brink never missed a start due to injury. (Should've been benched due to performance, many times though)

 

[CougEd]

How was it a surprise?
If they were too lazy to go to class as players, they weren't going to work hard to recruit as coaches.
Jim "Hire My Player" Walden doesn't appear to have any alum assistants on his staffs.

Walden had an assistant or two who played for him on his staff. Jimmy Burrows comes to mind and Melvin Sanders.

 

[CougEd]

Wulff's QBs going down to injury vs FCS teams (and basically everybody) was a feature, not a bug of Sturdy's offense.
Brink never missed a start due to injury. (Should've been benched due to performance, many times though)

Well, when a FCS team can beat an FBS team why should I not be surprised against a blitz happy team if a QB doesn't make the right check and gets blindsided because none of our QB's had game time experience, it doesn't surprise me they get injured. As it does not surprise me when our center goes down and is replaced by a inexperienced Olineman and the next game Halliday is taken off in a stretcher, or when our LT goes down and replaced by a freshman, it doesn't surprise me Halliday or Falk were taken off in a stretcher.

Didn't Leach we lose to two FCS teams? If they have enough talent to beat us twice, I would think they have enough talent to get us injured if our QB's are blindsided.

 

[FnuLnu]

Walden had an assistant or two who played for him on his staff. Jimmy Burrows comes to mind and Melvin Sanders.

Melvin Sanders, yes.
Jim Burrow didn't play FB at WSU.
Add Steve Morton though.

 

[FnuLnu]

Well, when a FCS team can beat an FBS team why should I not be surprised against a blitz happy team if a QB doesn't make the right check and gets blindsided because none of our QB's had game time experience, it doesn't surprise me they get injured. As it does not surprise me when our center goes down and is replaced by a inexperienced Olineman and the next game Halliday is taken off in a stretcher, or when our LT goes down and replaced by a freshman, it doesn't surprise me Halliday or Falk were taken off in a stretcher.

Didn't Leach we lose to two FCS teams? If they have enough talent to beat us twice, I would think they have enough talent to get us injured if our QB's are blindsided.

The sub-thread was how Doba would've sucked as bad as Wulff had he stayed on (and yes, it was time for him to go)....

...but somehow his QBs stayed on the field (even better than Price's QBs).

The health of Leach's QBs is a concern.

 

[dgibbons]

That's the thing.......I don't really want to talk about Wulff. Why not start a thread talking about how great next year is going to be? It's more meaningful than trying to compare a bunch of guys that aren't around any more.

Then you will kindly quit posting your BS about Wulff not being as bad as people say, right? No one puts a gun to your head and forces you read or post anything.

 

[Loyal Coug]

How was it a surprise?
If they were too lazy to go to class as players, they weren't going to work hard to recruit as coaches.
Jim "Hire My Player" Walden doesn't appear to have any alum assistants on his staffs.

Where in my post did I use the word "surprise"? And who is they? Did you go to WSU for 15 years, and had classes with all of them from Ken Greene to Rosie? And what does my post have to do with Walden? (No need to answer, and in fact please don't.

I just think that on paper, 10+ years ago, it looked like a great staff.

 

[CougPatrol]

These message boards are going the way of the do-do bird. Thanks to social media sites, "premium" content about recruiting, coaching hires/fires, internal issues are posted immediately on Facebook.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Then you will kindly quit posting your BS about Wulff not being as bad as people say, right? No one puts a gun to your head and forces you read or post anything.

SHUT UP you two!

 

[dgibbons]

Well....most of my posts are not "directed" towards you but you add your pennies to the conversation. Isnt that the purpose of a message board. Do you really want to go player by player?...You mean like Shelton Danzy, Conorris Adtkins, Williams, Williams, Jessen, Bluhm, Baird, Joseph, all whom were recruited off or close to off of three ten win seasons. Our three 10 win seasons were well in the background when Gama and others were recruited. And Doba had something to sell. Pac 10 Championship and three consecutive bowl games. With Gama and others they were hopeful. They had 13 scholie defensive players in the 09 Apple Cup.

The ship was close to being finished and Doba ran it into the ground. Once there was a huge hole in the hull they went cheap and asked someone who never worked on that type of boat to fix it.

Leach thought Sale was a Pac 12 player. Mistakes are made. But Leach never had Cole Morgan and Levenseller on the roster as potentially the QB's of the future.

And since personal attacks are prohibited I will take the term idiot as a compliment.

If mistakes get made, you of course acknowledge your argument about Morgan and JT Levenseller is nonsense. JT Levenseller was never going to play QB for Doba. They were banking on Lobbestaehl. By all means, keep spewing your nonsense. You will hang yourself with your own rope.

Here's a fun fact- Wulff's winning percentage at WSU was worse than Marshall's for the four years after the plane crash, and worse than SMU's for the four years after the death penalty. Wulff was WSU's catastrophe.

 

[dgibbons]

SHUT UP you two!

No one holds a gun to your head and makes you read or post anything either.

 

[wazzubruce]

I think it's undisputable that CPW & Paul Graham were the worst coaches ever at WSU. No one else compares.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Cougatron,

Obviously, Coach Wullf's won-lost record wasn't what WSU's "powers that be" anticipated when he was hired after the 2007 season. I think we can all agree on that point.

But, in all fairness, if CPW had the same massive facilities improvements and greatly increased budget for assistant coaches that have been provided for CML, would we have seen different results from 2008 through 2011? That seems like a legitimate question.

Remember, CPW was pretty darn successful at Eastern Washington.

Wulff was 53-40 at EWU. That breaks down to be (rounding UP) about 7-5 per year.

The guy who replaced him went 95-35.

Wulff's .570 winning percentage is slightly better than EWU's all time winning % of .564.

"Pretty darn successful" is being "pretty darn generous".

 

[CougEd]

Melvin Sanders, yes.
Jim Burrow didn't play FB at WSU.
Add Steve Morton though.

Played for him at Nebraska

 

[Fab5Coug]

I'm not saying he is or isn't but I would say that your statement makes my point. I don't care to argue or debate it anymore.

It's always such a treat when you feel like you need to chime in to let us all know you DON'T want to talk about something.

 

[CougEd]

Wulff was 53-40 at EWU. That breaks down to be (rounding UP) about 7-5 per year.

The guy who replaced him went 95-35.

Wulff's .570 winning percentage is slightly better than EWU's all time winning % of .564.

"Pretty darn successful" is being "pretty darn generous".

So what you are saying is he was the second most successful coach in their history?

Just looking at raw numbers Leach is a .500 coach at WSU. Does that mean he isn't an exceptional coach? Not at all. Sometimes people are graded on a bell curve because of circumstances.

 

[CougEd]

If mistakes get made, you of course acknowledge your argument about Morgan and JT Levenseller is nonsense. JT Levenseller was never going to play QB for Doba. They were banking on Lobbestaehl. By all means, keep spewing your nonsense. You will hang yourself with your own rope.

Here's a fun fact- Wulff's winning percentage at WSU was worse than Marshall's for the four years after the plane crash, and worse than SMU's for the four years after the death penalty. Wulff was WSU's catastrophe.

What does Marshal or SMU have to do with anything. They weren't needing players to compete in the Pac 10. The payers they needed to become successful earlier could be recruited in SMU's back yard.

And you asked the question who was worse. It is very clear it is Doba because of what he had and what he drove the program to. And Lobster was a good back up QB.

 

[Fab5Coug]

The sub-thread was how Doba would've sucked as bad as Wulff had he stayed on (and yes, it was time for him to go)....

...but somehow his QBs stayed on the field (even better than Price's QBs).

The health of Leach's QBs is a concern.

We just had a 3+ year starter who missed 2 games his entire career.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Wulff was 53-40 at EWU. That breaks down to be (rounding UP) about 7-5 per year.

The guy who replaced him went 95-35.

Wulff's .570 winning percentage is slightly better than EWU's all time winning % of .564.

"Pretty darn successful" is being "pretty darn generous".

Here's the $1 million question, I suppose, which has been asked before but hasn't produced a direct response.

If Mike Leach has inherited the program from Bill Doba at the end of the 2007 season with WSU's facilities AT THAT TIME and been given the SAME POOL OF MONEY to hire his assistants, how successful would Leach have been in his first four years?

From what I've heard and read, CPW consciously decided to do a complete teardown and rebuild with limited resources and without a staff of highly prized assistants. My guess is Coach Wulff and Coach Walden were/remain angry because he was given only four years before the WSU administration chose to pull the plug. Wulff and Walder figured he had a minimum of 5 years because what many coaches — not to mention a proud alumnus — receive for a complete, ground-up rebuild.

Wulff, as I think CougEd or another poster may have mentioned in a previous thread, was close to leading WSU to a bowl game in 2008. He probably figured it would've been a done deal in 2009 if he had kept the job.

There's no disputing CML was a "home run" hire for WSU.

Some folks just think CPW could've done some good things, too, given another season or two.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I think it's undisputable that CPW & Paul Graham were the worst coaches ever at WSU. No one else compares.

Now people are saying the same thing about Ernie Kent, who had Cougs on the verge of the men's basketball Top 25 just a few weeks ago.

Go figure.

 

[Fab5Coug]

So what you are saying is he was the second most successful coach in their history?

How did you get that out of my post?

 

[Fab5Coug]

Here's the $1 million question, I suppose, which has been asked before but hasn't produced a direct response.

If Mike Leach has inherited the program from Bill Doba at the end of the 2007 season with WSU's facilities AT THAT TIME and been given the SAME POOL OF MONEY to hire his assistants, how successful would Leach have been in his first four years?

From what I've heard and read, CPW consciously decided to do a complete teardown and rebuild with limited resources and without a staff of highly prized assistants. My guess is Coach Wulff and Coach Walden were/remain angry because he was given only four years before the WSU administration chose to pull the plug. Wulff and Walder figured he had a minimum of 5 years because what many coaches — not to mention a proud alumnus — receive for a complete, ground-up rebuild.

Wulff, as I think CougEd or another poster may have mentioned in a previous thread, was close to leading WSU to a bowl game in 2008. He probably figured it would've been a done deal in 2009 if he had kept the job.

There's no disputing CML was a "home run" hire for WSU.

Some folks just think CPW could've done some good things, too, given another season or two.

I'll assume you simply got your years mixed up with those 08, 09 bowl game comments.

 

[dgibbons]

What does Marshal or SMU have to do with anything. They weren't needing players to compete in the Pac 10. The payers they needed to become successful earlier could be recruited in SMU's back yard.

And you asked the question who was worse. It is very clear it is Doba because of what he had and what he drove the program to. And Lobster was a good back up QB.

Marshall and SMU show that Wulff was not able to clear an incredibly low bar. Doba's tenure was certainly nowhere near as catastrophic as a plane crash that killed nearly an entire team and coaching staff or the most severe NCAA penalty in history.

The program was certainly going downhill under Doba. Then Wulff burned the program to the ground, dug a hole, buried the ashes and defecated on the grave. Wulff created a lot of his own problems. His biggest problem was himself.

Despite fielding a team was short on talent, Doba's 2007 team won 5 games. It took Wulff three years to win 5 games.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Marshall and SMU show that Wulff was not able to clear an incredibly low bar. Doba's tenure was certainly nowhere near as catastrophic as a plane crash that killed nearly an entire team and coaching staff or the most severe NCAA penalty in history.

The program was certainly going downhill under Doba. Then Wulff burned the program to the ground, dug a hole, buried the ashes and defecated on the grave. Wulff created a lot of his own problems. His biggest problem was himself.

Despite fielding a team was short on talent, Doba's 2007 team won 5 games. It took Wulff three years to win 5 games.

Heck, USF built a program from scratch, made the jump to FBS in year 5 & went 8-3.

Anyone think Wulff was going 8-3 in 2012? Or ever, for that matter?

 

[CougEd]

Marshall and SMU show that Wulff was not able to clear an incredibly low bar. Doba's tenure was certainly nowhere near as catastrophic as a plane crash that killed nearly an entire team and coaching staff or the most severe NCAA penalty in history.

The program was certainly going downhill under Doba. Then Wulff burned the program to the ground, dug a hole, buried the ashes and defecated on the grave. Wulff created a lot of his own problems. His biggest problem was himself.

Despite fielding a team was short on talent, Doba's 2007 team won 5 games. It took Wulff three years to win 5 games.

So tell me this .. if he won five games with the most experienced QBS maybe ever to wear a wsu uni , and with two senior defensive tackles with tons of experienced , and started to give up 50 plus points a game, how was he going to reverse that trend and win games ? You would have seen the same results u see Doba, as he had some of the basic tools in 07 to be representable . When your two best offensive players by far are your center and a wr without a qb to consistently get him the ball you are screwed.

Wsu was for the most part starting from scratch in the three most important positions . Even smu in their conference could find the bodies to rebuild quicker .

Again, Doba took a good thing and ran it into the ground .

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Then you will kindly quit posting your BS about Wulff not being as bad as people say, right? No one puts a gun to your head and forces you read or post anything.

No one forces you to agree with me on anything.....but you sure seem to be dwelling on me this afternoon. I'm not going to argue with someone who is only looking for a fight. The proof of that? You are trying to pick a fight with me because I don't want to argue with you. It's not a good look.

 

[dgibbons]

Here's the $1 million question, I suppose, which has been asked before but hasn't produced a direct response.

If Mike Leach has inherited the program from Bill Doba at the end of the 2007 season with WSU's facilities AT THAT TIME and been given the SAME POOL OF MONEY to hire his assistants, how successful would Leach have been in his first four years?

From what I've heard and read, CPW consciously decided to do a complete teardown and rebuild with limited resources and without a staff of highly prized assistants. My guess is Coach Wulff and Coach Walden were/remain angry because he was given only four years before the WSU administration chose to pull the plug. Wulff and Walder figured he had a minimum of 5 years because what many coaches — not to mention a proud alumnus — receive for a complete, ground-up rebuild.

Wulff, as I think CougEd or another poster may have mentioned in a previous thread, was close to leading WSU to a bowl game in 2008. He probably figured it would've been a done deal in 2009 if he had kept the job.

There's no disputing CML was a "home run" hire for WSU.

Some folks just think CPW could've done some good things, too, given another season or two.

Wulff was guarantying 8 or 9 wins in 2012, assuming that's what you mean. The 2012 season was obviously not going to be even close to that. The OL was in shambles and the DL was not much better. Team speed was glacial and getting worse. The Wulff/Sturdy offense may have been more effective because the team wasn't learning a new system. IMO, the hypothetical 2012 defense would have been even worse than it was. I don't think we would have saw Bucannon and Long break out the way they did. I don't see any of Wulff's 2012 recruits making any kind of impact at all that year, certainly not the impact that Marks, Bartolone, Ngata and others made.

 

[dgibbons]

No one forces you to agree with me on anything.....but you sure seem to be dwelling on me this afternoon. I'm not going to argue with someone who is only looking for a fight. The proof of that? You are trying to pick a fight with me because I don't want to argue with you. It's not a good look.

And yet here you are, hitting the "Post Reply" button yet again.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

We just had a 3+ year starter who missed 2 games his entire career.

Well.....he did have a broken wrist for the last 9 games.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

And yet here you are, hitting the "Post Reply" button yet again.

That's the beauty of a message board. I can post whatever I want....whenever I want. Again, I don't feel like talking about former coaches because it doesn't accomplish anything. We all agree that Wulff didn't do a good job in his time at WSU and needed to be fired. Well, everyone but Ed.....but virtually everyone.