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Well, Mississippi State.

He runs the most vanilla, predictable version of the air raid. He will never win a division there. He may never sniff 10 wins again. He may have some upsets but the fans wont stand for losses to Arkansas.

Who does MSU have this week?

I agree that Leach's offense is in dire need of a refresh. He doesn't need to completely overhaul it, just add some different formations and counter the 3-man rush with some zone-read or QB draws. That's what was so maddening about him. You see other well regarded offensive minds tweak their game plans, but Leach never budges.

With that said, the other aspects of his coaching are top notch, which is why he's so successful. His offensive scheme is soft, but he runs a hard, disciplined system. He demands punctuality, attentiveness, work ethic, from his players and his coaches, and he's not afraid to give anyone the boot for noncompliance. That's something every coach says that they do, but few have the inner resolve matched with their personalities. Bill Belichick is a great example. He's a hard assed, but fair disciplinarian, born into a service academy coaching mindset. His style works for him, but his assistants rarely succeed on their own.

Mississippi State plays Kentucky this week. It's a game they can and maybe should win. Kentucky is coached by Mark Stoops, and they've lost to Auburn in the opener, and gave one away last week in OT vs. Ole Miss.
 
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A lot of humor in this thread if you start at the beginning and read it through. I'll just toss in a couple of things.

Re: the perpetual Biggs and Gib rush 3, drop 8 conversation. You are both right, and you know it, so give up the tit for tat. As Gib says, rush 3, drop 8 is not an automatic solution in and of itself. Gib is right that just because you have the bodies to defend the pass does not mean that you will do it well. Which supports what Biggs always says, coaching matters, and if the DC knows what he is doing and has the right athletes he can use the rush 3, drop 8 to severely hinder the AR.

Re: the discussion of who was best and worst coach. I think Sweeney was one of the best coaches we have had. Talk about inheriting an empty cupboard??? You could see all the walls inside Sweeney's cupboard when he arrived. He built us. He built us so well and capitalized so well on Don James first recruiting year that we survived 4 Head Coaches in 4 years. If the '75 Apple Cup had not ended the way it did, we'd have had Jim Sweeney for another 15 years and he would have done at WSU what he did at Fresno State, only in a bigger league. Both Walden and Price were good guys for their time, but I think Sweeney is the Rodney Dangerfield, get no respect guy in WSU coaching, and not justifiably.
Leach was the best Coug coach of my lifetime and I wish him much success in the SEC. Just because he seemed to lose interest at the end doesn't mean he didn't give us a hell of a ride during his tenure in the PAC.

2 games through the season with his new team, it's impossible to declare a verdict. dgibs is right that drop 8 is not a magic solution, and Biggs is right that it can be a solution. We will learn over the next couple of seasons if my own hypothesis is correct: that year in and year out, the SECW will have more teams with the talent and scheme to stop it than the P12N did, even with the talent upgrade of going to the SECW.
 
Leach was the best Coug coach of my lifetime and I wish him much success in the SEC. Just because he seemed to lose interest at the end doesn't mean he didn't give us a hell of a ride during his tenure in the PAC.

2 games through the season with his new team, it's impossible to declare a verdict. dgibs is right that drop 8 is not a magic solution, and Biggs is right that it can be a solution. We will learn over the next couple of seasons if my own hypothesis is correct: that year in and year out, the SECW will have more teams with the talent and scheme to stop it than the P12N did, even with the talent upgrade of going to the SECW.

Agree 100%. Leach will do fine at MSU, even if he doesn't succeed. He'll leave there an even wealthier man, and will have no trouble finding another gig; most likely at a South Florida, Central Florida, or lesser ACC program.
 
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"Wulff is not that bad."

-FlatlandCoug

Nice to know that it's all about you.

This isn't about me at all. Even if I think emotions run too high when it comes to Wulff, results matter and there is no point in arguing about Wulff. He made himself too deep of a hole to get out of and he needs to live with it. If he didn't want to be considered a terrible coach, he shouldn't have burned the program down in 2008.

BTW, trying to use Wulff as your argument for Leach is an awfully low bar to clear.
 
This isn't about me at all. Even if I think emotions run too high when it comes to Wulff, results matter and there is no point in arguing about Wulff. He made himself too deep of a hole to get out of and he needs to live with it. If he didn't want to be considered a terrible coach, he shouldn't have burned the program down in 2008.

BTW, trying to use Wulff as your argument for Leach is an awfully low bar to clear.

And you keep lowering the bar for Wulff with your river of excuses.
 
Agree 100%. Leach will do fine at MSU, even if he doesn't succeed. He'll leave there an even wealthier man, and will have no trouble finding another gig; most likely at a South Florida, Central Florida, or lesser ACC program.

I really doubt he'll have another coaching job after MSU. He's 59. I see him co-authoring some books and being a regular interviewee on sports radio or maybe doing color commentary.
 
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And you keep lowering the bar for Wulff with your river of excuses.

Do you think that Leach built our program up to the point where we can expect to be in bowl games every year? Do you look at our roster and feel confident that we are going to win more than we lose? If not, is it because you think that Rolovich isn't a good coach? Hawaii had a four game improvement in Rolovich' s first season. While that obviously isn't going to happen at WSU this year, do you see us winning 4+ games?

Or are you too busy making excuses about Wulff to say anything about that?
 
Do you think that Leach built our program up to the point where we can expect to be in bowl games every year? Do you look at our roster and feel confident that we are going to win more than we lose? If not, is it because you think that Rolovich isn't a good coach? Hawaii had a four game improvement in Rolovich' s first season. While that obviously isn't going to happen at WSU this year, do you see us winning 4+ games?

Or are you too busy making excuses about Wulff to say anything about that?

If the program doesn't complete for bowl games now, it's completely Rolo's fault. The facilities are there, the program's notoriety is the best it's ever been, fan interest is high, and Rolo has signed one of the best QBs in the Nation. I'll give Rolo a year, maybe two before I start getting after him too bad, but the foundation for a new head coach is more solid now than it's been since Doba succeeded Price.

Leach took over a condemned program from Wulff. There was nothing, and I mean NOTHING that was positive. The roster sucked, fan interest was gone, he facilities were poor, the training table was Taco Bellish, the strength and conditioning program was unsupervised. It was the worst P5 program in the Nation.

Don't ever underscore what Leach rebuilt on the heels of Wulff. There were only a handful of coaches and systems that could have pulled us out of that mess, and Leach's was the perfect one, as it didn't require an elite recruiting pedigree to achieve immediate results.
 
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If the program doesn't complete for bowl games now, it's completely Rolo's fault. The facilities are there, the program's notoriety is the best it's ever been, fan interest is high, and Rolo has signed one of the best QBs in the Nation. I'll give Rolo a year, maybe two before I start getting after him too bad, but the foundation for a new head coach is more solid now than it's been since Doba succeeded Price.

Leach took over a condemned program from Wulff. There was nothing, and I mean NOTHING that was positive. The roster sucked, fan interest was gone, he facilities were poor, the training table was Taco Bellish, the strength and conditioning program was unsupervised. It was the worst P5 program in the Nation.

Don't ever underscore what Leach rebuilt on the heels of Wulff. There were only a handful of coaches and systems that could have pulled us out of that mess, and Leach's was the perfect one, as it didn't require an elite recruiting pedigree to achieve immediate results.
I don’t agree with all of your premises. There are plenty of coaches that could have turned it around. More than anything the program needed a hard assed drill sargeant who could recruit well to instill discipline and weed out the loafers and wimps. The question is were there many qualified coaches that had the patience and balls to try?Did Moos even have the skill to find and sell the position to someone ambitious and capable enough to take on the job? Would that person be willing to risk their reputation on a rebuild that potentially may not have gone well or the fan base got impatient? It would have been up to Moos to sell to coaching candidates and honesty Moos is not much of a salesman: he appears to be only able to reach for the low hanging fruit. And that’s not meant as a slam on Leach.
I don’t understand why you would only be willing to give Rolo a year or two, unless he’s a complete dumpster fire. Leach went 12 - 25 his first 3 years. Remember that after Leach’s third year 3-9 record lots of people were losing their minds. But it worked out OK.
Leach probably was the best option at the time but I’m still not entirely convinced - a no nonsense disciplinarian with a gimmick offense that teams had a tough time prepping for certainly had a better chance of getting an early return but the flip side is that recruiting players for a gimmick offense and not being great at recruiting in general may not have been the best long term health solution for this program. I don’t believe that Leach left the program in as good of shape as you appear to believe he did.
 
I don’t agree with all of your premises. There are plenty of coaches that could have turned it around. More than anything the program needed a hard assed drill sargeant who could recruit well to instill discipline and weed out the loafers and wimps. The question is were there many qualified coaches that had the patience and balls to try?Did Moos even have the skill to find and sell the position to someone ambitious and capable enough to take on the job? Would that person be willing to risk their reputation on a rebuild that potentially may not have gone well or the fan base got impatient? It would have been up to Moos to sell to coaching candidates and honesty Moos is not much of a salesman: he appears to be only able to reach for the low hanging fruit. And that’s not meant as a slam on Leach.
I don’t understand why you would only be willing to give Rolo a year or two, unless he’s a complete dumpster fire. Leach went 12 - 25 his first 3 years. Remember that after Leach’s third year 3-9 record lots of people were losing their minds. But it worked out OK.
Leach probably was the best option at the time but I’m still not entirely convinced - a no nonsense disciplinarian with a gimmick offense that teams had a tough time prepping for certainly had a better chance of getting an early return but the flip side is that recruiting players for a gimmick offense and not being great at recruiting in general may not have been the best long term health solution for this program. I don’t believe that Leach left the program in as good of shape as you appear to believe he did.

Like you eluded to, when you filtered the list of coaches who "could have" done a good job, how many of them would there have been? UCLA, Oregon State, Colorado, USC, and Arizona have been chasing their tails looking for coaches. Moos went out and got a guy who immediately flipped the script. We started beating the likes of Stanford, Oregon, USC, UCLA, Utah, fairly routinely. We had appearances in the top-10. We played for the P12N championship. Just couldn't get past UW.

I'm going to double down on my previous post and say that I don't think there was another head coach who could have exceeded what Leach accomplished.
 
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Doba most certainly deserved a shot. He didn’t deserve his wife getting cancer.

Pullman isn't a place where you want to break in a 62 year old first time head coach. He was the perfect coach for 2003 but was 20-26 after and the team fell off a cliff when he left. Someone with Doba's resume 10 years younger would be a no brainier. Even before his wife got cancer Bill didn't have the energy necessary to establish his program. They coasted on what Price left them and things fell off.
 
Like you eluded to, when you filtered the list of coaches who "could have" done a good job, how many of them would there have been? UCLA, Oregon State, Colorado, USC, and Arizona have been chasing their tails looking for coaches. Moos went out and got a guy who immediately flipped the script. We started beating the likes of Stanford, Oregon, USC, UCLA, Utah, fairly routinely. We had appearances in the top-10. We played for the P12N championship. Just couldn't get past UW.

I'm going to double down on my previous post and say that I don't think there was another head coach who could have exceeded what Leach accomplished.
I agree with the part that it’s highly unlikely that anyone would have exceeded Leach in terms of wins/losses but where I differ is the shape he left this program in. Sure it’s better than he found it; that’s not in dispute.
What was left in the cupboard to ensure a good opportunity for immediate success by whomever took over?
And just to throw this out there; you’d have a tough time convincing me that if Leach had stuck around we wouldn’t be seeing diminishing returns.
 
If the program doesn't complete for bowl games now, it's completely Rolo's fault. The facilities are there, the program's notoriety is the best it's ever been, fan interest is high, and Rolo has signed one of the best QBs in the Nation. I'll give Rolo a year, maybe two before I start getting after him too bad, but the foundation for a new head coach is more solid now than it's been since Doba succeeded Price.

Leach took over a condemned program from Wulff. There was nothing, and I mean NOTHING that was positive. The roster sucked, fan interest was gone, he facilities were poor, the training table was Taco Bellish, the strength and conditioning program was unsupervised. It was the worst P5 program in the Nation.

Don't ever underscore what Leach rebuilt on the heels of Wulff. There were only a handful of coaches and systems that could have pulled us out of that mess, and Leach's was the perfect one, as it didn't require an elite recruiting pedigree to achieve immediate results.
The highest ranking WSU alum in state government Chris Reykdal (state superintendent of public instruction) says the Wulff era was better.

 
Reykdal appears to be merely another dumb-ass casual Coug fan who thinks paying a market wage to a coach means every single season should yield 70th percentile (or better) results in a 10th percentile situation in the Pac-12 in terms of money, resources, recruiting footprint, recruiting budget, school being recruited to, etc. Sure, Chris.
 
not a fan of Reykdal's, but I don't quite think that is what he's saying there...
He’s speaking in terms of return on investment. Based on that we should have expected more. But to be fair Wulff’s level of ineptness would probably cost you a lot more than 600,000 today.
 
I don’t agree with all of your premises. There are plenty of coaches that could have turned it around. More than anything the program needed a hard assed drill sargeant who could recruit well to instill discipline and weed out the loafers and wimps. The question is were there many qualified coaches that had the patience and balls to try?Did Moos even have the skill to find and sell the position to someone ambitious and capable enough to take on the job? Would that person be willing to risk their reputation on a rebuild that potentially may not have gone well or the fan base got impatient? It would have been up to Moos to sell to coaching candidates and honesty Moos is not much of a salesman: he appears to be only able to reach for the low hanging fruit. And that’s not meant as a slam on Leach.
I don’t understand why you would only be willing to give Rolo a year or two, unless he’s a complete dumpster fire. Leach went 12 - 25 his first 3 years. Remember that after Leach’s third year 3-9 record lots of people were losing their minds. But it worked out OK.
Leach probably was the best option at the time but I’m still not entirely convinced - a no nonsense disciplinarian with a gimmick offense that teams had a tough time prepping for certainly had a better chance of getting an early return but the flip side is that recruiting players for a gimmick offense and not being great at recruiting in general may not have been the best long term health solution for this program. I don’t believe that Leach left the program in as good of shape as you appear to believe he did.

You should quit before you reveal yourself to be stupider than you already show.
 
Says the professional bullshitter, Mr hydroxychloroquine and zinc, owner of the most idiotic thing ever posted here.

You forgot the Z-pac.

You also clearly know nothing about the details of Leach's hire, even though well publicized. Willful ignorance is a choice. Your choice.
 
You forgot the Z-pac.

You also clearly know nothing about the details of Leach's hire, even though well publicized. Willful ignorance is a choice. Your choice.
Lazy hubris addled Bill Moos given a blank check to lure a radioactive coach with absolutely no other D1 options under the stipulation that he be left alone to do his job without any meddling by administration. A chimp could have closed that deal. Of course that’s not the way Bill tells it: he spins yarns to make himself sound like the closer he’s not. The only thing ol Bill is good at selling is himself.
 
If the program doesn't complete for bowl games now, it's completely Rolo's fault. The facilities are there, the program's notoriety is the best it's ever been, fan interest is high, and Rolo has signed one of the best QBs in the Nation. I'll give Rolo a year, maybe two before I start getting after him too bad, but the foundation for a new head coach is more solid now than it's been since Doba succeeded Price.

Leach took over a condemned program from Wulff. There was nothing, and I mean NOTHING that was positive. The roster sucked, fan interest was gone, he facilities were poor, the training table was Taco Bellish, the strength and conditioning program was unsupervised. It was the worst P5 program in the Nation.

Don't ever underscore what Leach rebuilt on the heels of Wulff. There were only a handful of coaches and systems that could have pulled us out of that mess, and Leach's was the perfect one, as it didn't require an elite recruiting pedigree to achieve immediate results.

If we aren't making bowl games on an annual basis by Rolovich's third year, that's on Rolovich and not Leach. Even if there are some sketchy positions on our depth chart, it's Rolovich's job to address them.

Back to the dark ages, the program under Wulff was a crap sandwich and he needed to be fired, but an objective person looks at our program in 2011 and doesn't see the worst team in the nation by a long stretch. Just for perspective, the 2011 FPI had WSU #64 in the country ahead of Virginia, Purdue, Wake Forest, Iowa State, Boston College, Kentucky, Syracuse, Colorado, Minnesota, Kansas and Indiana. I know that everyone is bitter and angry about how terrible we were in 2008 and 2009, but Wulff actually had pulled the program off the mat with significant improvements. Of course, close to bowl eligible and #64 in the country isn't what we were looking at after four years and he needed to be fired.

I do agree that Leach was the perfect coach to lead us at that time. It's hard to picture anyone better suited for WSU at the time. FWIW, Hawaii went 11-39 in the four years before Rolovich arrived at Hawaii. Wulff's 9-40 is pretty terrible, but 11-39 is the same ballpark. I think Rolovich is going to be fine.
 
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Agree 100%. Leach will do fine at MSU, even if he doesn't succeed. He'll leave there an even wealthier man, and will have no trouble finding another gig; most likely at a South Florida, Central Florida, or lesser ACC program.

I bet his next coaching gig will be at the high school in the Keys that didn't hire him when he applied. That would be a sweet way to finish things.

Teach some kids the Air Raid, put up some points, walk around the Keys in shorts and sandals. Not a bad retirement at all.
 
I would have thought you would have put your Leach blow up doll away after he left to MSU.

Apparently not.

You would certainly be the expert on blow up dolls, predicting Leach would never get it done here, clown cars, misspelling the name Fockers and not being able to maintain an account on this website.
 
Lazy hubris addled Bill Moos given a blank check to lure a radioactive coach with absolutely no other D1 options under the stipulation that he be left alone to do his job without any meddling by administration. A chimp could have closed that deal. Of course that’s not the way Bill tells it: he spins yarns to make himself sound like the closer he’s not. The only thing ol Bill is good at selling is himself.

Blank check? The doo is in your head.
 
not a fan of Reykdal's, but I don't quite think that is what he's saying there...
Reykdal goes on to imply losing 4 rivalry games in a row is a firing offense which of course Jim Walden, Mike Price, and Mike Leach did. But Paul Wulff and Bill Doba did NOT.
And pretty ignorant of the Michigan-tOSU results
A Paul Wulff fan is in charge of K-12 education in this state.
 
I admittedly stirred the pot with this post, but I’m certainly not a Leach hater. I love the guy. Deserves a kings welcome anytime a Coug fan runs into him. It was a remarkable 8 year transformation.

I don’t know how much success he’ll have in the SEC, but I suspect some big upsets and some games like yesterday. It’s funny that his first two games went down like they did, because it’s representative of what you get with his system.

If I were pressed to bet on it, I don’t think he’ll be able to win a division down there. Pretty similar to how he did with us. 8 wins, but the elite defenses will control him.
You didn’t stir the pot and you are spot on. Leach is Leach and he’s not winning 10+ or that division even though some of our resident experts here decided he won COY and a National Championship all in week one against a team with a completely overturned roster. He provided some great memories for us and had a nice run at WSU, but the flaws in his philosophy will limit him in the SEC to 7-8 win seasons at best. The overreaction last week was comical.
 
You didn’t stir the pot and you are spot on. Leach is Leach and he’s not winning 10+ or that division even though some of our resident experts here decided he won COY and a National Championship all in week one against a team with a completely overturned roster. He provided some great memories for us and had a nice run at WSU, but the flaws in his philosophy will limit him in the SEC to 7-8 win seasons at best. The overreaction last week was comical.

Lol
 
Sorry I guess I’m missing the laughs. Do tweedle dum and you want to enlighten me? LSU was not the 6th best team in the country. They turned over almost the entire starting 22 (do you remember the ‘98 Cougs?). There were what 3/4 threads full of posts certain Leach was going to make MSU a title contender. Then they go out and lose to Arkansas and score 14 in the process. What about my post here is laughable? You are the one ranking the dumbest posters so just tell me where I fit in.
 
"he had a nice run but the flaws in his philosophy will limit him "

Ok pompous ass, i guess that 11-2 2018 season was just luck and will be easily duplicated in the next 15 years.

I know, i know, Leach is bad because he spoke at a Trump event. Just save it.
 
"he had a nice run but the flaws in his philosophy will limit him "

Ok pompous ass, i guess that 11-2 2018 season was just luck and will be easily duplicated in the next 15 years.

I know, i know, Leach is bad because he spoke at a Trump event. Just save it.

If he called a better game they would have been 12-0 in regular season. Close loss to SC and his predictable loss in the AC being outcoached yet again...

Would I take 11-2 every year? Yes.

When I look at the losses could they have been wins???? Yes.

But lets not forget his COY award after beating LSU in his first game at MSU....

Mike Leach stops Mike Leach. When he decides to run the ball and force the defense to play 4 DL he will be unstoppable. Until then, beat LSU one week ~ lose to a team that hadn’t won a league game in 3 years the next week.
 
If he called a better game they would have been 12-0 in regular season. Close loss to SC and his predictable loss in the AC being outcoached yet again...

Would I take 11-2 every year? Yes.

When I look at the losses could they have been wins???? Yes.

But lets not forget his COY award after beating LSU in his first game at MSU....

Mike Leach stops Mike Leach. When he decides to run the ball and force the defense to play 4 DL he will be unstoppable. Until then, beat LSU one week ~ lose to a team that hadn’t won a league game in 3 years the next week.
No coach is unstoppable, especially not at a school with the smallest budget in P5.

Arkansas has the same talent on paper as a 6-7/3-5 in 2019 MSU team.

Austin Williams and K Hill being gone after the first play of the game with no back up RB put them in a hole. The game is not that big of an upset.

Let down after a big week one win, too many interviews.

Not surprising.

Ragging Leach for going 11-2 instead of 13-0 is laughable.
 
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